The Texan Emergency and Child Tax Credits

The+Texan+Emergency+and+Child+Tax+Credits.jpg

Topics Discussed

  • The Disaster in Texas

  • Moment of Hope: Local Leadership

  • Child Tax Credit Proposals

  • Outside of Politics: Sharing Journals with Children

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Episode Resources

TEXAS

CHILD TAX CREDIT PROPOSALS

Transcript

Sarah: This is Sarah

Beth: And Beth, 

Sarah: You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.

Beth: The home of grace-filled political conversations.

Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Pantsuit Politics. We are so thrilled to be here with all of you who have been with us from the beginning and hopefully a lot of new listeners, thanks to the incredible honor of Apple spotlight. We are so thrilled to be one of the creative teams that Apple podcast has chosen to spotlight for the month of February. It's been really fun to watch our community react. I think if it is possible, y'all are even more excited than we are. 

Beth: [00:00:29] And rightfully so, because what makes Pantsuit Politics, we think, so special and unique is that it's a conversation starter. We don't want people to listen to say, I really agree with you too, or I'm really team Sarah or team Beth. We want you to take what we've initiated and go out and have the conversation in your lives and this community does that in ways that take our breath away every single episode. 

So thank you for being here, whether you're new or you've been around a long time. If you are new, we're going to link to our episode guide, which will allow you to kind of go back into the [00:01:00] archives and figure out what you want to hear, to get to know us and we hope you'll stick around and become part of the conversation too. 

Sarah: [00:01:06] So today we're going to talk about Texas. We're going to talk about the child tax credit plans currently before Congress. We're going to share our thoughts outside of politics but before we get started, we hope that you're subscribed to our weekly newsletter, but you don't have to believe us. Take a listen to Beth O's recommendation. 

Beth O.: [00:01:24] Hi, this is Beth from Utah. When I invoke the names, Sarah and Beth, as I am chatting with my sister, she knows exactly who I'm talking about. I introduced her to your Instagram lives during the debates, and I often refer to the podcast, the news brief and the nightly nuance in normal conversation. Recognizing how important you'd been for me this past year, she even gifted me with Pantsuit Politics tea for Christmas. 

I think my favorite aspect of what you do is the weekly newsletter though, because you both are such gifted writers with humorous, compassionate, and poetic voices. [00:02:00] Above all, you are completely genuine and human and make me feel like we are friends navigating life together. Thanks so much for your work and research and commitment and objectivity. It means so much to me.

Sarah: [00:02:42] As we sit down to record here on Thursday morning, more than 1 million Americans don't have power and the situations, particularly in Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Louisiana, even our home state of Kentucky are [00:03:00] particularly dire. You know what we try to do here on Pantsuit Politics, as we were talking about the top of this show, is plugin the voices and experience of our listeners so that we can all have a better and more personal understanding of what's happening across our country. 

And Abby emailed us this morning from Breckenridge, Texas after experiencing two rolling blackouts, one that lasted 12 hours, one that lasted four hours and we just wanted to share some of her story that she emailed us.

Beth: [00:03:35] Abby wrote, both of those blackouts it's temperatures were in the single digits. Our house got down to 54 degrees in our living room, our converted garage was in the forties. I have two small children ages five and two and to be honest, this experience has stretched me to my breaking point. And I don't even have it as bad as many of my neighbors.

I have friends who have not had electricity for three days, no water either. Our local United grocery store lost all of its [00:04:00] perishable items due to the blackouts. All of it went into a landfill. As I'm sure you've seen on the news, the crisis is affecting everyone statewide in different ways. I'm a school librarian and I received a call this morning that the pipes burst in our elementary school and flooded my library, so the damage will continue as things begin to fall over the coming days.

 And that's something that I've been thinking about so much. This unexpected, extreme weather in Texas would have been a crisis even if you didn't have the power grid situation, agriculturally, it's devastating to have weather that you're not prepared for a roll in like this. There will be so many ripple effects. And then when you layer on the damage resulting from a lack of power, pipes bursting, water not available to everyone, this is just going to be devastating for a long time. 

Sarah: [00:04:50] So, so what happened? We have talked about this both on the news brief and the nightly nuance, but there is, not surprisingly, lots of [00:05:00] misinformation floating around social media side of it just shared among everyday citizens and some of it perpetuated by high ranking officials in Texas itself about what is the cause for these rolling blackouts. 

So, if you haven't been reading a lot of the reporting from Texas, there's a couple of things you have to know. First Texas has power grid is independent from the United States. In the early 1930s, Texas was independent, listen, it has an independent streak, well known, well known to avoid federal regulations. So it can't look to reserves and other States because the power grid is not connected to the rest of the United States. Now the high ranking, Texas officials came on television and blamed renewable energy for the lack of resources.

There were pictures of frozen wind turbines and lots of blame cast on renewable energy, few digs at the green new deal for good measure. But the reality is that Texas' is [00:06:00] renewable energy is a very small percentage of its energy grid. And what happened is this, you know, dramatic winter weather, not only froze wind turbines, but it froze natural gas pipelines, which is a huge, huge proportion of Texas energy.

And look, there are lots of States that depend on wind turbines with winter weather, but they winterize the wind turbines and because of the regulatory environment in Texas, the power providers were not required to winterize either the wind turbines or the natural gas pipelines. And so there's this confluence of events that in theory is unexpected.

But in reality, as you look across the United States, including Texas, that unexpected weather shouldn't be unexpected anymore because it is our new reality. Extreme weather, be it hurricanes or snow [00:07:00] or earthquakes or wildfires are our new reality in the United States and we are not rising to that challenge.

And by we, I want to be very clear, I am talking about political leaderships or absence thereof. I'm not here to blame the people of Texas, even the people of Texas who voted for that leadership, because I promise you no matter who you voted for, I know that the people of Texas are showing up for each other. Of that I am 100% confident. I say that again, I'm 100% confident that nobody's asking their neighbors, who they voted for for president before opening their doors if they have electricity and their neighbors don't. 

Beth: [00:07:38] I think that's right. And I hope that in this situation we can focus on how do we fix the problem first. It is important to understand how we got here. It is important to understand what we do to never be here again. It is important to draw out lessons for the rest of the country, from what's going on in Texas. But right now, what matters is [00:08:00] fixing it. How do we get power to people? How do we get food and water to people?

How do we make it our hospital's going, how do we make sure that families are not having to ration oxygen tanks for their premature babies as has been reported in the news? We just need to fix it. I think this cycle of drawing out the political lesson first, instead of fixing it first then understanding exactly what went wrong and then talking about the political dynamics.

It is messed up that we are skipping right to the political dynamics. I really appreciated this sentiment from Axios that I think just nails the problem, where they talked about how America is no longer showing the world how to solve problems. Instead, they said, there's always another uncivil war to be fought, even when democracy, global health and now climate change are on the line.

And look, I think it is important to have an honest [00:09:00] conversation about renewables and about their current limitations, about what needs to be required in terms of reserves around renewables, if you are using renewables, knowing that their reliability is questionable compared to fossil fuels right now, what kind of reserves do you need to have around?

It is important to be honest and accurate and searching for the best path forward around renewable energy. No one is served by being super defensive of the frozen wind turbines right now, but we are also not served by pretending that the wind turbines are the main driver of the problem in Texas. And none of that blame game helps get the problem fixed.

 Texas is an enormous state. The complexity of trying to deal with this problem is huge. And I think the best thing everybody can do, especially those of us who are spectators to this, watching it unfold from our heated homes is to just say, how [00:10:00] can we help? Where can we send money that will be credibly spent? And what can we learn once the problem is solved about what needs to happen next?

Sarah: [00:10:10] Look, I mean, there is absolutely no doubt that a change in political leadership is a part of fixing, fixing this problem. Right. I think you're right. It's so easy to jump to that part, but nobody's registering voters in between boiling their water, right?

Like that's not gonna get anywhere. And I think that there is an important awareness that you learn deep in your bones, that when you see government fail, And that's what we're seeing. We're seeing government fail to do its job. I think the hard reality for me to accept is that, forever and always, people are going to take two different lessons from that. 

One group of people, hopefully the larger group of people, takes the lesson that we can't have political leadership that hates [00:11:00] government running the government. We can't have political leadership that had every opportunity shrinks government and lessens its role and, and cuts its funding and all these things. Because when we have big challenges, there's no government there to meet them.

I mean, I, I feel like I've learned that lesson deepen in my cells during the pandemic, and I think you learn it in a whole new way during a natural disaster. The hard thing that I have to just make my peace with, is there another group of people that will learn the lesson that see, this is why you don't trust the government because it can't do anything right. Even when you really need it. 

And you know, we talk about this a lot on pantsuit politics, we're never all going to agree. We're never all going to feel 100% and like not wasting valuable energy, both in solving the immediate problem and then fixing or improving the political reality is wasted trying to convince those [00:12:00] people who are never going to see government as anything, but a hindrance.

And so we just have to do, you know, the best we can to convince enough, to get up, change in political leadership, to get the regulations that save people's lives, to get the resources out there to people who need them and not, you know, spin our wheels about whatever Governor Abbott said on Fox news about the green new deal.

And it's, it's just hard. It's hard. Um, you know, as we're sitting here recording, right now the biggest story, I would argue, about Texas is that their Senator, Ted Cruz went to Cancun with his family. Now, Beth, I don't want you to get too men because the reporting is that he was just dropping them off in Cancun.

And then he was going to return to Texas immediately that evening. Cause that's what I do a lot. I drop off people in foreign countries, but you know, it's like, it's hard. How, I mean, that's infuriating. That's infuriating. On top of things [00:13:00] about Ted Cruz, that's also infuriating, but like, I'm not sure what Ted Cruz thinks his job is anyway.

 You made a really good point about this, like this Ted Cruz consider himself to be a leader, I mean, or does he consider himself to be a pundit? I'm not sure anymore. I've lost track of what he actually thinks his job is to do. So can he still send Barbs on Twitter and do his podcast from Cancun? Sure. I guess he can. 

Beth: [00:13:23] He can. And I think that the most important takeaway for me about what Ted Cruz chose to do in the midst of this unfolding crisis came from one of our listeners who sent us a message on Instagram. She is in Texas right now. And she said, I know there's not a whole lot to say about this, but it just cuts so deep.

She said, I know he's just one person, but I feel so hurt by this one person's actions. And I think that's right. And even if he personally cannot do a whole lot right now, which I question. If you're a United States Senator, I think that you have some power to do some things, can't fix it by [00:14:00] yourself. No one person can fix it.

But I do think using the resources at your disposal in a crisis and showing that you understand the crisis and may care about the people going through the crisis and that you're in it with them is, is vital. I just wish that we had that sense of connection between our representatives and the people that they represent.

And Ted Cruz, you know, taking his family on vacation, even if his true plan was to come immediately back, it's hurtful to his constituents. Again, not the most important thing that's happening. The most important thing is how do we fix this? But I understand why it's a big story, because it does highlight the sense of does anybody care to fix this? Is anybody trying to fix it? 

Sarah: [00:14:43] Well, that's, what's so hard. How do you triage a political problem that has such real-world impact? Right? It's not purely a natural disaster. That's not the only thing that's happened here. It's a natural disaster worsened by [00:15:00] climate change. It's a natural disaster compounded by an energy crisis, worsened by political leadership. How do you thread that needle? It's so hard. It's so hard to do triage and help people, and in the face of a problem that in large part, was created by a failure of leadership. 

Beth: [00:15:25] It is hard, especially when the prevailing mentality and I love Texas. So please do not take this as a, as a dig. I love it. So, and we have this situation in Kentucky here too. The prevailing mentality is one of independence, and I was thinking about, you know, if I'm a mayor, I was just thinking about what if this happens in, in Union, Kentucky, where I sit. If I'm a mayor, I want to coordinate the government response with the nonprofit response, with the for-profit response.

Right? Because I was seeing pictures of one of the [00:16:00] mattress stores in Texas that opened its doors to become a shelter. And I thought, how do you make sure that people are doing that where they have the resources and ability to do it, that the right people are getting into that space, that people are going to the shelter closest to them, that food is being delivered?

Like, how can you bring together, we have a ton of nonprofits in Northern Kentucky. They are not well coordinated and sometimes rather competitive with one another and it's kind of weird. That's not anybody's fault. It's the fault of a lot of things. Right. But in an emergency, when the demand is so heavy and so much heavier than any one business or one nonprofit or, or one government can handle, how do you coordinate all those things together?

And I think that it's that coordination that I would be thinking about if I were in charge of anything in a governmental capacity right now. To prepare, because again, as the political nightly [00:17:00] report that I appreciated noted, hot is getting hotter, cold is getting colder, wind is getting windier. Like everything that's happening is ramping up and you cannot count on this year looking like last year in any of your plans. And so what I think we really need to work on is that triage plan, like what, how do we activate, whatever the disaster is, all of the sectors in our community to respond effectively. 

Sarah: [00:17:27] Well, I don't think it's only coordination after the fact. I think there is a role of government through regulation to require preventative measures when they would not happen otherwise, if you were purely profit-motivated, right? Like I think that there is a role of government in saying, like, I know you don't want to prepare for this once in a 500 year event, but you're going to anyway, because we're going to legally require you to do so. 

Beth: [00:17:50] And that happens at a direct expense to taxpayers that we don't get excited about spending money on, but we need to. I think all the [00:18:00] time about listening to the local sanitation district leader in my area and how I was nearly radicalized by that conversation, because listening to him talk about how difficult it is to maintain sanitation infrastructure, how little people want to pay for sanitation infrastructure and how utterly disastrous it is when sanitation infrastructure fails.

I left that meeting thinking, charge me whatever you need to charge me. These are the taxes I am thrilled to pay, but most of us haven't sat in a meeting like that and don't have a picture of how significant the dollars we spend on that highly localized, unsexy, but critical infrastructure, how critical those dollars are.

And I think the more we can talk about that and kind of get out of this, like let's fight over everything, nationally mentality that we're in, the better we can do that [00:19:00] preparation. Regulatory, and otherwise to make sure we're on top of things and anticipating. We're always going to be behind the climate because of where we fall in human history. Right. So how can we. At least start to meet it and then prepare our children and future generations to be in front of it. It's going to take a lot of our focus. 

Sarah: [00:19:21] Listen. I started on the sewer board during my time as city commissioner. It was my absolute favorite thing I did during my time in public service. It's an incredibly informative, important experience that truly everybody should have a glimpse into. The executive director of our local sewer board is one of my most favorite people on planet earth. And I think you're right. And I think this, it's still, it's the failure of leadership to just walk people through that and say, this is what's happening. This is why we have to charge. 

I think that we have a vision of the United States built on independence and sort of a more [00:20:00] open regulatory environment built in the early part of the 20th century, when in reality, there was a really active government building a lot of infrastructure, propping up a lot of these foundations that allow independence and corporate growth, and those checks are coming due. Not only in our lack of regulation and our lack of response to climate change, but in our crumbling infrastructure, in all these ways.

And in the growth of a, of a political philosophy that said government was the problem. Government, we just need to take care of each other. Like that awful Facebook post from the Colorado city mayor, just take care of yourself. You know, there is this idea that nonprofits and churches and charity organization can fix whatever ails America. Well ask the people of Texas how well that works. Ask the people of California, ask the people of Florida when they're hit with a hurricane.

 There are, we are too big and complex to think that even [00:21:00] with the intense charitable spirit of so many people in this country, that we can do these things alone. Like it, honestly, it reminds me of the conversations around go-fund me. That we'll, we'll just fund everybody's medical, bankruptcy through an internet campaign. 

Like it's not going to work guys. Like we're too big and too complex. We have to have government. We have to have government and to coordinate, to force people, to pay money either through taxes or regulations that they don't want to spend out of pure self-interest and that's fine. We're human beings, we're self-interested.

 But if we live together in a group, there has to be somebody that says, the interest of the group exceed your self-interest at this moment. I'm sorry, because the pure self-interest, the pure independence, the pure get government out of the way, has ceased to serve us. Be it climate change, or a global pandemic [00:22:00] or racial inequality, or you name the problem. We need to see our interconnectedness and we need to see the role of government and being this very big, very diverse, very complex country on its feet. 

Beth: [00:22:19] Uh, and I hear your passion and respect it about this era. And I also think that it's a hard message if you live in a place where government has really failed around the pandemic. I think it's a hard message, when a lot of public schools are not open. It's a hard message when people like my sister having to drive an hour and a half each way to get a vaccine. It's not that government is a perfect solution to anything. And it's, I don't think ever that government should be the only solution. I just think it would help us if we could get out of the battle between all government and [00:23:00] no government, to ask the question that I think you're really asking, which is what is the role?

And where government has abdicated the role that government can uniquely play, like requiring power plants to be winterized, what's the consequence of that and what do we want to do about it next time? Well, we try to include a moment of hope in all of our episodes. And we're going to go back to Abby from Breckenridge, Texas for that moment of hope today. She wanted to give a shout out to her County judge, Michael Roach, who we also recognized for his efforts during the pandemic.

She said that he has been driving around non-stop in hazardous weather conditions, checking in on vulnerable community members, coordinating warming centers and food locations every day. She says they've put families in local motels and bused them to food locations daily. He has boots on the ground and it is truly an example of love [00:24:00] and she is very, very grateful.

And I know that Michael Roach is one of many people in Texas doing everything possible to help during this situation. So what a good example of what happens when you use the power that you have as an elected leader to help others. 

Sarah: [00:24:15] And we're going to have a really complimentary conversation in the next segment. We're going to talk about child tax credits and proposals, both from Mitt Romney and the Biden administration about how to use government to solve the problem of child poverty. Also, before we get to that, the other big news this week was the death of Rush Limbaugh. 

We wanted to share that we talked about that in great detail on our Patreon page, and we've opened that up to all patrons. So if you're interested and our thoughts on the legacy of rush Limbaugh, you can head on over to patreon.com.

Beth: [00:24:52] Now that the, the trial of the former president has ended, Congress will principally turn its [00:25:00] attention to president Biden's American rescue plan. A component of that plan is a change to the child tax credit. It is being proposed on a temporary basis. And with that discussion, we have had Senator Mitt Romney introduce the family security act.

Both of these proposals can be done through budget reconciliation, the process where we look at what the federal government is spending and the importance of being able to do it through budget reconciliation is that there is not a threat of being stalled out through the filibuster, where you would need 60 senators on board to end debate and actually proceed to a vote.

And so we thought it would be good today to look at both Senator Romney's proposal and the proposal coming through Congress through the Biden administration and some house members who've been talking about this for a long time. And just try to analyze what problem is this trying to solve? [00:26:00] How does it fit into the COVID landscape? And more than that, uh, what do we want to see long-term as we think about how government supports American children. 

Sarah: [00:26:10] First, let's start with where we are now. America has an incredible crisis when it comes to child poverty. Nearly 11 million children are poor in the United States, somewhere between one and six and one and seven. And that's probably under counting and not surprisingly non-white children are disproportionately affected by this poverty rate. You know, we spend less, than most every other developed country to help families and children in need. And with the cost of raising children rising faster than the average rate, including the cost of childcare and afterschool activities, technology has made some things cheaper, but it hasn't really made raising children cheaper.

 Particularly with regards to COVID, we see that when economic [00:27:00] changes hit the populace, they hit families very, very hard. I think that one of the most helpful things I read was that there's really been a shifting understanding of how children come into poverty. Particularly that these families are not one fixed group. That it is a larger group of people that move in and out of poverty, like you've seen with the pandemic.

 I think that for so many decades in American politics, and when we had this particular policy conversation, it was about like, this is the group and it's a static group and it stays the same and we just need to get to them. You know, one of the biggest problems currently is not just that we don't spend money, but the aid we too, we do try to give through the current child tax credit is nonrefundable.

That means that you get a refund only up to the amount you already owe in taxes. So if you live below the poverty line, you are probably not paying [00:28:00] taxes. So that means you can't get any benefit from this child tax credit. The child tax credit that's supposed to help, the poorest Americans can't get access to and so that is one of the biggest problems that both of these proposals is trying to get at. 

Beth: [00:28:13] And thinking about it as a tax credit is probably not great because as you just pointed out, a tax credit is usually thought of as what happens as what the government provides to offset your liability to the government. You owe this, we subtract that and now you owe this. Not, you are in a really difficult financial situation and need help and something that differentiates Mitt Romney's proposal from the proposal that is in the American rescue plan is that he's talking about what is truly social insurance, more like social security.

And if you make the child tax credit fully refundable, meaning you get the money whether you owe [00:29:00] money in taxes or not, then you really are talking about social insurance and that's fine. I think it is important to have a conversation about social insurance, because another dynamic around raising children is that most people just biologically are having children before they reach their peak earning capacity.

And so childcare gets more expensive. All of the things attendant to having kids, extracurriculars and everything required, diapers and formula and car seats, everything keeps getting more expensive. You're not at your peak earning capacity. Your biology says, this is the time to have kids. It just is a collision course for families.

It makes a period of life very, very challenging. And you have people who are very conservative to very progressive saying, we want to solve that problem because it is a social good for families to exist. It is a social good to [00:30:00] have more children, and to have those children grow up in a comfortable, stable living situation.

Sarah: [00:30:06] Yeah, I think that's the important thing is like, not only do we need more children because we have an aging populace to, you know, fuel our economy, but it comes at great cost to keep children in poverty. It's why you see wealthy nations giving, not credits, but allowances, child allowances. Uh, important example is Canada's child benefit, which hasn't even existed that long. Low-income families in Canada receiving an allowance of roughly 4,000 per child per year.

It phases out when the income rises, they haven't had it that long and it's already been associated with a 20% reduction in poverty. This is the approach that most wealthy nations take. They see the high cost of child poverty. They want to motivate families to have kids because it's important for the future of the country. And so this is the approach that they take. 

Beth: [00:30:54] So I thought it might make sense to start with the family security act, Mitt Romney's plan, [00:31:00] and then contrast it with what is in the American rescue plan, which is much more likely to be enacted right now. Senator Romney does not have much Republican support and enthusiasm from elected officials. Certainly, the conservative, center-right sort of intelligencia loves Mitt Romney's plan as do many progressive commentators. 

You find a lot of progressive commentators saying this is better than what's in the American rescue plan. So I don't think this has any chance of becoming law in the near term, but I think it is a really helpful framework to understand what we could be doing and the scale on which we could be thinking about.

Sarah: [00:31:38] So let's do the basics with Mitt Romney's plan. It provides $350 a month for every child younger than five and $250 a month for children, 6 to 17. It's paid out monthly, but comes out to about $4,200 and $3,000 annually, depending [00:32:00] on how old your children are.

Beth: [00:32:02] You would receive a maximum of $1,250 a month or $15,000 a year. So families, when you start to see five and six children in a family, the benefit is going to lower. New parents would receive $1,400 before the child's birth. And that I think is one of the smartest parts of this plan.

 If the plan passed, the parents of a child born next year would receive $62,600 in support by the child's 18th birthday. What a life giving amount of money that is to raise a child. The benefits begin phasing out at $200,000 annually in single income. $400,000 in income for joint fi filers. This would happen on the backend, through the tax code, meaning everybody would get the money, but wealthier families would pay it back.

And those are very high-income threshold when you think about a lot of benefits that are provided through the [00:33:00] tax code. So this really is meant to be an almost universal plan for parents and families. And one of its benefits, contrast it to similar plans that have been floated out there, is that it is neutral as to whether both parents work or not.

And that's something that a lot of conservatives really like about Mitt Romney's plan, because we are not saying it's better for both parents to be working, or we need to have funds available to reimburse out of the home childcare. It's just saying whatever decisions a family makes, they need support. And so let's support them. 

Sarah: [00:33:38] He funds these cuts through other programs and tax credits that aid the poor. So by eliminating programs, he aims to make these payments budget neutral, meaning they don't cost anything, which is an important component of using this legislation and budget reconciliation. Um, so the bill eliminates the child independent care tax and head of household tax filing status and make which may, because it makes both of them pretty [00:34:00] redundant.

It ends federal funding for the temporary assistance for needy families. And you know, this isn't without criticism, a lot of people depend on TANIF. And so the eliminating of the federal funding for this program in the hopes that the basically the childcare allowances would make up the difference. 

Beth: [00:34:17] It also revises the current earned income tax credit. This is a little bit complicated. But when you compare the Romney plan to the Biden plan, which we'll talk about in a second, there is a category of families, depending on income level, that could be worse off under the Romney plan. With the subtraction of the earned income tax credit benefit, the subtraction of temporary assistance to needy families, there are people who would receive less in federal aid overall under Romney's plan than under Biden's plan. Now, I think you have to offset that by thinking about the fact that Senator Romney is proposing this as a permanent program. And what's in the American rescue plan right now is proposed [00:35:00] as a one-year program.

 But the way that it's paid for matters in looking at who benefits most and are we targeting this benefit to the people who need it most. And, and there's a good argument and some important numbers to calculate as you think about what would actually make its way to individual families. 

Sarah: [00:35:20] I'll tell you it's the elimination that's going to be at least popular. It's just, he also eliminates the state and local tax deduction. You know, this is a tax deduction in state that is very popular in States with high incomes and high property taxes, so eliminating this to fund the child allowance, I think that'll be a bigger political lift. You know, as I'm reading people's analysis of this, I mean, I think you have the policy people who love that it's simple to administer, that thinks it'll have a huge impact on child poverty, maybe even the birth rate. I think that's all very interesting to read. 

And then I read [00:36:00] statements from like Marco Rubio and Mike Lee calling it welfare assistance and that people won't want to work and they'll just have kids. And I think, you know, over the course of my life, I've heard that argument so many times and never has, it felt more tone deaf than it feels right now in the middle of a global pandemic where parents are just crumbling under the pressure of so many things.

 And the idea that when people, you know, women are fleeing the workforce, the dang New York times has to set up a primal scream hotline and you think $62,000 over the course of a child's lifetime and people are like, heck yeah. Heck yeah, let me add another toddler to this mix right now, because I want that money is just, it's laughable. It's like, I want to take that criticism seriously, but right now, where I can hear my six year old, upstairs having a meltdown in the middle of our recording, it's [00:37:00] just, it is laughable.

Beth: [00:37:02] Here's what I really like about the Romney plan. If you could pass it, it would be reliable. And what helps people work the most is having things in life that are reliable having reliable childcare, having reliable transportation, having reliable food housing, et cetera. Reliability helps people work. 

I think most people very much want to work, but they must have those structures in their lives that allow them to do so. Yeah. And if, you know, regardless of what my tax obligation is going to be, regardless of whether Congress reauthorized as this at the end of the year or not, I am going to have this money coming in every month, the building blocks are in place for you to go out and have a job that supports your family.

Sarah: [00:37:47] Or start a business, if you need that kind of stability. I mean, it's the argument for universal basic income, right? That it just provides for people with a stability and a safety net to go out and do big things. Like I just, [00:38:00] you know, it's not that I don't think there's a single American who will make arguably deplorable choices if sent money every month. Of course there will be, of course there will be where a country of 300 million people, some of us suck. 

That's just the reality, but the idea that that's the way we should make policy decisions, that we shouldn't look at the impact across the board, but be driven by fear of the extreme reactions is just it's. I'm so tired of talking about policy like that. I am so, so tired about tight talking about policy like that and I just want to sort of wave my arms around and be like, well, are you okay with how things are now? Or you just want to keep saying no. It's so frustrating.

Beth: [00:38:42] I also think we need to consider the word welfare. It has been overlaid with such a negative connotation. But our founding documents talk about-

Sarah: [00:38:52] and a racial connotation. 

Beth: [00:38:54] That's right. And, and an overtly racist connotation. Our founding documents talk about promoting the general [00:39:00] welfare. There is, uh, I think, standard of living below which we should not want other Americans to exist.

In the wealthiest country, in the world, there is a standard of living below, which we ought, not want others to exist. And. The pandemic has for me illustrated so clearly that as much as we talk about being a country that loves children, we have not prioritized children from a policy perspective in almost any way.

And in fact, most of our conversations during the pandemic have, in some ways come at children's expense, this is a point that you made very articulately early on in the pandemic, Sarah. And so in my mind, welfare can do good. It is supposed to, it is a legitimate role of government. And where do we get the most return on that welfare?

I think it is by providing [00:40:00] stability around raising children. I really do. Not that childless people should perish in poverty. Certainly, they should not. Also, we know that everyone starts life as a child and starting with a stable foundation drastically impacts where you end up in the longterm and what choices are available to you, what education is available, what support mechanisms you'll have as you go out into the world. And so to the extent that we can provide greater stability around those formative years, that seems like a very smart use of welfare to me. 

Sarah: [00:40:38] So let's talk about the child tax credit proposal inside the American rescue plan. And before we talk about that, I wanted to make something very clear. We're talking about the Biden proposal, but the advocacy for changing the way the current child tax credit works, has been coming from representative Rosa DeLauro for [00:41:00] literal decades. This woman, when you talk about political leadership and you talk about people that see problems and see the government's ability to fix it, and just keep beating that drum with every available resource they have.

This is a good example of this. She's a representative from Connecticut. She's a staple on Capitol Hill and also just a really good interview. I love to watch her interviews, but she has been advocating for these changes to the child tax credit for most of her career, because she saw the impact it would have on child poverty.

And so I just don't want it to become like, well, isn't this Joe Biden's fabulous plan. I think that, I think even the inclusion in the plan is probably due to her advocacy. And so I think that she should in her and the others who have supported her and worked with her on this really deserve a lot of the credit.

Beth: [00:41:47] So this is a temporary proposal. Many things in Washington begin as a temporary proposal that gets reauthorized because of their popularity, so I don't want to poo poo that aspect of it too much. [00:42:00] It provides $300 a month to parents of children under six and $250 a month for children who are between six and 16.

It does not cut any other existing welfare or tax benefits. Making it permanent would require budget cuts or other offsets and probably making it permanent could take it out of the budget reconciliation process, but that's not certain. Benefits start to phase out for single filers at $75,000 in income and joint filers at $150,000 in income.

So that is a marked difference between this plan and the Romney plan. The tax credits would be fully refundable. And so they would be available to families making less than $125,000 families. Making between 125,000 and $400,000 would receive partial credit. The plan would also make this credit advanceable. So the Romney plan is about getting checks [00:43:00] monthly to families. And this would do that too. You would get one 12th of the value of the credit each month. So it's, it is kind of riding that line between tax credit and social insurance.

Sarah: [00:43:13] Can you tell people what you mean by social insurance? 

Beth: [00:43:16] And when I say social insurance, I mean, payments that come from the government, right? Not an offset to what you owe the government, but just the idea that we all pay into certain programs in order for those programs to pay back out. So generally, paying taxes and at some point the U S treasury is cutting checks back, whether you are at that time, putting money in or not, 

Sarah: [00:43:38] Beth, I don't think it's a stretch to say that you favor the Romney proposal.

Beth: [00:43:43] I am happy for something to get done on this topic. And I think the Romney proposal all in all is better. I think some examination of how it's paid for is an order. I don't mind at all to get rid of the state and local tax deduction. I think that probably should have happened a long time ago.

[00:44:00] Understanding that that will hurt me, Kentucky. I live in Kentucky. It's not important to me, but I think looking at whether the temporary assistance for needy families goes is important and looking hard at those earned income tax credits. I would want to do the Romney plan in such a way that the families who need it most are not harmed by those offsetting changes, but I like the stability of the plan. I like the neutrality as to life decisions of the plan. I think it would pay enormous dividends and every study I've read about it says it would just hugely dramatically impact child poverty. 

And I think that if we have an opportunity to cut child poverty, we are cutting all kinds of other problems in our society. And so I love that this came from Mitt Romney. I like [00:45:00] seeing ideas come from the Republican party. I want more of that. I especially like seeing ideas that have a goal that I think is purely bipartisan goal. I'm really uninterested in what Senator Rubio and Senator Lee have to say about this because I do not see a lot of good faith coming from them.

And I think they just, you know, Senator Rubio and Senator Lee have been proponents of changing the child tax credit and I appreciate that. And I also think that a lot of what you hear from the two of them is about their own stars rising. And the fact that Mitt Romney has gotten out ahead of them, I think, is the problem here. Not that they would substantively disagree with the policy. So I'm, I'm just, I don't need that. Peanut gallery is what I'm saying in my analysis. I think what Senator Romney has proposed here is very, very strong. And it's a proposal that ought to get serious thought and consideration within the Republican caucus, as well as on a bipartisan basis.

Sarah: [00:45:57] Well, here's what I'm thinking about as I look at these two proposals. I [00:46:00] listened to an interview with Adam Jentleson on, as our clients show he's authored Kill Switch, the rise of the modern Senate and the crippling of American democracy. And this book is going to be in our extra credit book club subscription next quarter and I'm excited about that.

 But they were having an interesting conversation about how, the way the United States Senate functions and the existence of the filibuster incentivizes all these weird policy proposals and legislation that no one thinks is most effective, cost-effective, impactful, but it's what we can get through budget reconciliation, instead of just putting things to the floor and seeing what you can get the most votes.

And so to me, it's like, instead of the analysis of what can we get through. It is helpful I think to look at both proposals and say, what do we think would get the most votes? If we put the proposal in the American rescue act and Mitt Romney's proposal on the floor of the United States Senate right now, because we're all so obsessed with bipartisanship, what do we think would get the most [00:47:00] votes? 

I actually think Mitt Romney's would get the most votes. I think he would get almost every Democrat, depending on what to do with this state and local tax reduction. And several moderate Republicans, maybe even a few surprising Republicans. I think you wouldn't see all 50 Democrats vote in favor of it.

And I think you might see more Republicans than you expect vote in favor of it. Isn't that what we've all told ourselves as the best legislation and the best policy, because I think that his proposal would wait on the floor if we actually were to just take a vote, instead of go through all these machinations to get it through budget reconciliation, because nobody can ever procure 60 votes for literally anything. 

Beth: [00:47:45] If you agree that Senator Romney's proposal is a good one and want to help that incentive structure around our representatives, might be a good day to send an email or make a call to your representatives and say that you support that plan and you want to see more work done around [00:48:00] it. It will take a lot to get Senator Romney's plan anywhere near a vote, I think. And so hearing from constituents never hurts in that process. 

Sarah: [00:48:09] And if you happen to live in Arizona and West Virginia, when a call Kristen cinnamon or Joe Manchun with your thoughts about the filibuster, feel free to do that too.

Beth: [00:48:17] I wanted to mention, before we conclude on this topic is that I love a piece from David Brooks in the New York times from 2019 about child poverty and the approach that Canada has taken to child poverty. It is about exactly what we were talking about when we were discussing natural disasters and the first segment, how do you bring together all of the resources in an area to attack a problem with focus and persistence and a real search for effective solutions. And it is definitely worth your time if you are interested, especially in thinking more about what you could be pushing for locally to deal with child [00:49:00] poverty.

Sarah: [00:49:09] Beth. What are you thinking about outside politics?

Beth: [00:49:11] As long time listeners know I have two daughters, my older daughter, Jane is 10. My younger daughter, Ellen is five. For her 10th birthday, my sister got Jane a journal called Just Between Us, for mothers and daughters. It has been such a godsend to us because I have really been feeling the pressure of Jane reaching this tween stage and reaching that stage at a time when she's not going to school.

And I'm trying to work at home and my husband's trying to work at home and we're also trying to take our five-year-old through her kindergarten year online. And I really worry that the prevailing message that Jane gets from me right now is, I'm busy, later. Let's talk about it later. I care, [00:50:00] but I'm really busy right now. Oh my gosh. Can you leave me alone for a second?

 I'm just worried about that and having a written form of communication, where we can go back and forth when we're really in a good mindset to talk to each other has been so incredibly helpful. And of course my five-year-old saw this and wanted one too.

And she picked, oh, this really sad, beat-up notebook of mine to use as her journal, but she loves it. It's fine. And her face when I write in her journal to her, just lights up and it gives me a chance to be the mom I want to be to both of them at times of day when I can really do that. And often I write to them right before I go to bed and it's just, I can't overstate what a difference it's making in how I feel about my parenting.

Sarah: [00:50:48] I always think about that moment on the Oprah show way back in the day where Toni Morrison talked about how your face looks when your child comes into the room, do you light up or are you like, Oh, what do you want? [00:51:00] And I always thought that was so important and I strive so hard to be a face that lights up when they come into the room.

And also I recently finished Kristin Neff's Self-Compassion and one of the biggest areas I need self compassion with myself is parenting. And I realized like, when people would say you can't be the perfect parent, I would think, I know that like, of course I can't be the perfect parent, but then she said, I think that like, basically, like, but we think they're out there somewhere. It's just not us.

 And I thought, Oh, yep. That's yep. That was me. That's me. It me, I say, well, I know I'm not perfect, but subconsciously or even a little bit consciously, I think somebody is out there getting it right. Right. Somebody is out there every time, lighting up every single time their child walks into the room.

And I think that, like, that awareness really helped me. And I think you're right. Like when you can just like, if that's important to me, of course, it's important to all of us, that our children [00:52:00] don't see us missing them or being frustrated by them or the overarching feeling they get from us is like go away.

And so being able to like structure a solution instead of just beating yourself up about it all the time, that always I think is so key when I can just find a way to, to either just have a space to say out loud, Hey, I'm worried this is how you feel. And also inevitably I've noticed with the pandemic, like when I asked my kids, like, I'm worried that like the other day I was saying sperm.

Of co of course, by Dr. Becky and her posting on Instagram that always leaves me feeling like both inspired and am I perhaps the worst mother on the planet earth? I know that's not Dr. Becky's goal, but that's how I feel sometimes. And she was talking about how they feel when we get onto them and how, like the internal message might be like, I'm bad, I'm making bad choices.

And I told my kids, I'm like, when I tell you you're sneaking and I'm like, why are you sneaking? Do you feel like I'm [00:53:00] telling you that you're a bad kid? Like, you're like, you're trying to solve a problem and it's bad that you're trying to solve the problem that you really want that chocolate on the very top shelf in the cabinet where I hid it?

And they were like, no, we don't feel that way. And I was like, sometimes I'm like, man, I'm beating myself up about it. And when I asked them, they're like, what are you talking about crazy lady. But I all that to say. I have a journal that I share with my oldest son and I've gotten one for my middle son and they are like, just having that structure place to write down, not to mention, I think there's just such a power in, in art and articulating how you feel to your children and writing it down so that they can see it. Yeah. It's like a lot of goodness and a lot of good impact wrapped up in, in one little book. 

Beth: [00:53:38] And it does help me respond more effectively than sometimes I can, with my words. Ellen, the other day, I was so frustrated with Ellen because we were trying to have a really fun day. It was weekend. I was trying to give the kids all my focus and Ellen was trying, it seemed to me as much as a five-year-old can, to [00:54:00] find things that were wrong. To find where her feelings were hurt, where something wasn't fair, where Jane was getting more than she was, whatever. It just felt like Ellen was looking for the negative. And I finally sent her up to her room to take a nap.

I said, you must be tired the way that you're treating everybody right now, I can only assume that you are tired. So she goes to her room to take a nap. She gets up, she grabs the journal, she takes it in her room and she writes in it. She sets it on the table that we've agreed is the spot for the journal.

And she comes over to me and she says, I wrote something in my journal and I said, okay, I'll grab it. And I took a look and it says, I am so sorry, mommy. Bless. And so I took the journal and I started writing and I watched her watching me write. You know, waiting and waiting and waiting to see what I was going to write.

And it gave me a chance I probably would not have gotten here if I were just speaking through it. But it gave me a chance to say, I don't want you to be sorry. I also want you to know that it's okay to be frustrated. And I want you to know that there is a lot of joy [00:55:00] that we miss out on if we focus on our frustration, Hmm. So I want to find a way to help you be frustrated and know that that's okay and I also want to help you look for things to be excited about. 

And she read it and she came back to me and she set up in my lap and hugged me so hard and said, thank you, mommy. And I just, I was just so grateful to have that tool. I would not have gotten to that moment without such a simple tool that had never occurred to me before my sister gave us this journal. 

Sarah: [00:55:31] Well, it reminds me of a time I've had, I had a very similar conversation with, with Griffin about emotions and at the end he went, it sounds like you're asking me to do a bunch of different things at once. And I was like, Oh, then I properly conveyed what I was trying to convey. That's right. That's accurate. I am. It's real hard. I also haven't figured it out yet. Best of luck to you. 

Beth: [00:55:53] We just had to keep coming back and trying, and, you know, in this way, children are such a good frame for [00:56:00] everything else in life. What is politics other than asking people to manage a whole bunch of different feelings at one time? 

Sarah: [00:56:06] Well, we hope that we've given you a space to process politics and parenting and pandemic struggles and what's happening in Texas and why it's hard and expensive to raise kids all within an hour. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Pantsuit Politics, have the best weekend available to you.

Beth: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.  

Sarah: Alise Napp is our managing director. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Sarah: David McWilliams. Ali Edwards, Martha Bronitsky, Amy Whited, 

Janice Elliot, Sarah Ralph, Barry Kaufman, Jeremy Sequoia, Laurie LaDow, Emily Neesley,  

Allison Luzader. Tracey Puthoff,  Danny Ozment, Molly Kohrs, Julie Hallar, 

Jared Minson, Marnie Johansson. The Kriebs! 

Beth: Shari Blem, Tiffany Hassler, Morgan McCue, Nicole Berkless, Linda Daniel, Joshua Allen, and Tim Miller. Sarah Greenup

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