The Show Mustn't Go On

TOPICS DISCUSSED

• That Moment at the Oscars

• President Biden in Europe

• The January 6th Committee

• Now What? Politics in the Far West with Britt Raybould

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EPISODE RESOURCES

• Get tickets to our live show in Waco, Texas on April 30th with Clint Harp!

• Pre-Order our new book Now What?

• Join the launch team for Now What?

• Britt Raybould for Idaho Website

TRANSCRIPT

Beth [00:00:00] There will always be someone in distress, and there will often be situations where someone breaks or disrupts social norms. And so to me, thinking about the response is the most important piece of this conversation. And I just want to say, and I've been saying this for years and a bunch of different contexts, the show mustn't go on. It mustn't. There is nothing less important than the Oscars, really. If you think about just the context of the world right now, the show must not go on. If something like this happens, it is worth pausing and addressing. 

Sarah [00:00:42] This is Sarah Stewart Holland 

Beth [00:00:43] And this Beth Silvers. 

Sarah [00:00:45] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. 

Sarah [00:01:01] Hello, and thanks for joining us here at Pantsuit Politics, where we take a different approach to the news. Today we're going to take a different approach to the show. Usually we would end the show Outside Politics with Oscar coverage, but we're going to start it with the moment everyone is talking about from last night's Oscar ceremony. They were going to catch up on President Biden's trip to Europe and the latest with the January. 6th committee. And then we're going to leave you with what we found to be a very helpful conversation with the candidate from Idaho's House of Representatives in our ongoing Now What series. And speaking of now what? 

Beth [00:01:32] We want to remind you that we are only five weeks away from launching our new book. In case you missed it, that's now what? How to move forward. When we're divided about basically everything, we're really excited to share it with you. I mentioned on more to say this week that I struggle talking about something over and over again. But that is what you do with it around a book launch. And I am doing it here because I really am proud of this book. The more time I spend in it, the more I hope that it's going to be really helpful to all of you. I think it offers something very complementary to what we do on the podcast every week that hopefully gives you something to look back at and reference as you try to have different conversations about the news in your life. So if you'd like to help us get the word out, we'd love for you to be part of our launch team. There's a link with more information about that in the show notes and also a link to preorder the book. And we just thank you so much every person who tags us that they've preordered. I can't really describe what the feeling is like to know that people are anxious to read what we've worked really hard on writing for you. So thank you. 

Sarah [00:02:42] But we don't usually lead the news portion of our show with Oscar coverage. This would be Outside of Politics kind of topic in a normal Pantsuit Politics episode, but this is not a normal episode because it was not a normal Oscars. I had big plans to go on Instagram and talk about dresses or pants or shorts, as the case may be. But that's not where we're at today, because we had an incredibly intense moment in the middle of the live Oscar show, during which Chris Rock made a joke about Jada Pinkett Smith hair. And then Will Smith, her husband. Got on the stage, slapped Chris Rock across the face and then screamed twice at him. Keep my wife's name out of your mouth. It was I had a complete adrenaline dump like didn't go to bed till 1 am just what that moment we were like, Wait, what just happened? 

Beth [00:03:42] I almost never watch the Oscars live or in full, so it was pure coincidence that I happened to see this I was trying to pack. I'm a terrible packer and the slowest packer on Earth. And so I turned the Oscars on just to have something to keep me up and going while I was packing and awake while I was waiting for my husband to get home from the airport. I think before we get into this, we should just all take a breath because we are dealing with the situation, what it is that we do on social media, which is make everything about everything. And there is a lot going on in this story. And I just want to assure you, if you are tied up in knots about how we're going to talk about this, that we're going to do our best to do it carefully and to bring what we think we can bring to the conversation, but not try to discuss the entirety of what's going on here, much of which is outside of our life experience. I'm taking a breath and I would invite you if you're feeling tense to take a breath with me. 

Sarah [00:04:39] One of the things. I love about. Talking politics with my kids is a so clarifying. Because you have to think about how to explain this, what's going on are often very complicated adult situations in a way that they understand. And I thought immediately of two things I say to my children all the time. The first of which is we don't comment on other people's bodies ever. We don't do that. My friend Kate talks about all the time. The first time she heard me say that she's like, You just said it so clearly. And I thought, Oh yeah, we don't. Because if you if you grew up in the nineties, sometimes that's a hard lesson to remember. But we don't we don't talk about other people's bodies and we also don't hit. This is something else. I say a lot as the mother of three boys, and what I say is whatever your brother did or said to you, the second you hit, you're the person in the wrong and you're the person that's going to get in trouble because you escalated it. And so those were the two things. That kept running through my mind. Listen, I'm an attorney. My husband is an attorney. So there a real legalistic reaction in my living room, but I did, you know, because the minute immediately both of us were like, That's assault, so am I going to call the police? But I did think a lot after that about Sarah Shulman's book Conflict Does Not Abuse, where she talks about We have this approach of bringing in the state and interpersonal violence in a way that is almost never the solution. And I think that's right. I think that the reaction to sort of call the police, it's there's a when there's a very public violation of our social norms and our laws, you want a public response and we've taught ourselves that calling the police is the only way to get that, and I don't think that's true. I was not surprised to see that Chris Rock, you know, declined to press charges. I think that was probably an understandable call. Arguably the right call. But it was like, even for myself, the reaction of like, but when some when you hit somebody, you gotta do something right? 

Beth [00:06:36] The biggest thing I can take away from this moment is that something can happen and you don't need an authority figure to come in and make it happen. The person that I most admired in this circumstance was Denzel Washington. Yeah, because what really? What really bothered me? I don't I don't purport to know anything about The Smiths and their relationship with Chris Rock. I understand this is not the first joke he has made in poor taste about Jada Pinkett Smith. Like, there's a lot going on here, right? So I don't have a perspective on Will Smith or Chris Rock. Who's right? Who's wrong? Whatever. I don't I don't think I need to have that perspective. I do think that this team of people who are producing the Oscars had a couple of obligations that went unfulfilled in the situation. First of all, we got to have a conversation about how we feel about profanity in America. But the fact that they bleeped everything that Will Smith had to say out, they showed this slap and then silenced the discussion. That is a mess. And that made the situation infinitely worse because now you have everybody rushing the social media to try to figure out what happened. I did it. I went right to Twitter. Was that real? Was it a bit like, what? What did I just watch? Right? And so we get heightened in our engagement right away about something that is obviously very personal. So I think that was completely the wrong call. I also think we saw in the Oscars that humor is not going to be able to resolve every difficult situation. And and that is the only tool that they brought to resolve this with the audience because there was an interaction between humans that happened in that room. And there was also an interaction that happened between the production of this televised event and the audience. And it had a big effect on the audience and probably a very big effect on many parts of the audience, depending on their history with violence, depending on their connection to alopecia. And the people who had a responsibility to the audience in this situation needed a better way to address it. Then having Amy Schumer be like, Oh, this is a little different in here right now. I mean, my problem with a lot of the Oscars always and particularly this Oscars, even if you remove this incident, is that it feels so unaware of the millions of people they are asking to watch it with them. I hated that whole bit, with Wanda Sykes only donating fifteen dollars to this museum. I thought that was so disrespectful to the audience. There were many, many moments in this that I thought were totally disrespectful to the audience. But when you have a spontaneous unscripted moment like this where clearly the joke was awful and should have been told and the response was awful and shouldn't have happened, someone needs to figure out how to pump the brakes and address that in a serious way with the viewership. And it was really frustrating to me that that didn't happen. 

Sarah [00:09:41] Yeah, I think it's so hard. You know, the Oscars and art in general has the the beautiful ability to. Let people feel seen. There are so many beautiful moments with Arianna DuBose and Troy Kazu in the silent applause and Kyoto winning that we're we're very. Representative right, but it's almost like the ways in which we move forward and in representing everyone's individual experiences. We get worse and by we I mean, the Oscars get worse at naming that sort of universality, right? The more they try to make a big statement about movies, the more it falls flat, the more they give voice. And a platform to these individual experience, the more it hits right. And I think that's what's so hard about where we are in America, and I think this moment sort of gives voice to that for me at least. There's been so much writing and thinking, and we see it that there's this, this thinning of our social fabric. Violence is a car, accidents are out. There's all this writing about like we don't see ourselves in it together, right? In a way that's really harmful. And, you know, I worry in the ways in which we're talking about this and thinking about this and just accepting that there's there's no universal experience, there's no shared human connection. Everything is through the filter of our own individual experiences and you can't touch mine and I can't touch yours. And you have to trust me that this is so bad that this is OK. And I worry about that. I think we need a universal, we don't hit, we don't hit. We do not match words with physical violence and words are not physical violence. I know we use the word violence in a way. We say violence is done through language and language is powerful. Obviously, I believe that I talk for a living. I am not downplaying the power and impact of language, and I'm not certainly not condoning the language Chris Rock used. We don't talk about other people's bodies. However, violence is different now. I think the problem is especially when there's a racial component. But almost all the time we can't delineate between somebody did something bad and they're bad. We get in this space of because Will Smith did something bad, which he did. We don't hit. He did something bad but doesn't mean Will Smith's bad, arguably like Will Smith, the best of all three people involved. Huge fan. And he's exhibit. And I think what was so hard in this? Because if you like Will Smith and if you followed his career, especially in the last year, he wrote openly in vulnerably about his own experience with domestic violence growing up. And, you know, in his memoir, and he's just he's clearly been going through some stuff and he was in distress. Violence is a manifestation of distress, right? And. It's like I'm brokenhearted for somebody who has worked for decades in this industry, which is racist. I can't imagine what Will Smith has gone through to try to get to this moment in his career that he has worked very hard for and now it's overshadowed completely and totally. It's like my friend Laura was saying she told her kids, like on his in his obituary. This moment will be written about and I hate that for him. I do like he is clearly going through something. And it's not just a joke. And that makes me sad, I'm sad for him, I'm sad for her, I'm sad for Chris Rock, who got hit on national television. I'm sorry for everybody who watched it. I'm sorry for Questlove, who created an incredible piece of art and won an Oscar for it. And it was like we couldn't even celebrate him or these other beautiful moments because that's what violence does. And that's why it needs to be this sort of universal human reaction, which is we don't do this. There's no equivocation. There's no justification. We don't act violently towards each other if we're going to continue together in all our pluralistic glory, in our different experiences. We have to have some universals. We have to have an understanding that some things cannot happen. 

Beth [00:14:11] It is also true that. There will always be someone in distress, and there will often be situations where someone breaks or disrupts social norms. And so to me, thinking about the response is the most important piece of this conversation. And I just want to say, and I've been saying this for years and a bunch of different contexts, the show must go on. It mustn't. There is nothing less important than the Oscars, really. If you think about just the context of the world right now, the show must not go on. If something like this happens, it is worth pausing and addressing. I felt this way when I was doing H.R. for a law firm. There are moments when everybody needs someone to say, we are having a universal experience here. We might be experiencing it differently. But here is a thing that doesn't have anything to do with being productive in our business today. But it is wearing on all of us and we need to take a second and talk about it, 

Sarah [00:15:12] especially in a professional setting, which this was. 

Beth [00:15:15] Well, that's right, and a professional setting that you have in public for reasons. They do this in front of an audience because they want to have an impact. That's why we get a lot of speeches about things that have nothing to do with art because people want to use the moment they have in front of the public to say something. And so this was a moment that people had in front of the public to say something, and I'm not putting this on the people who were in distress. That was a deeply personal situation. Again, I think it's beautiful that Denzel Washington took Will Smith aside and said, Let's talk about this person to person. I hope someone did the same with Chris Rock, and I hope they're continuing to do it with both of those families. Everybody involved needs some personal space to deal with what occurred and that the aftermath of it right because it isn't confined to that room. But that's the thing. It wasn't confined to the room. And so somebody needed to be a leader as to the rest of us to talk about it, too. And listen, you can take a second to get your thoughts together on that. You've got Reba McEntire there. Just put the woman back up on stage and say, Could you just do a little number while we think about this and Beyonce's bad option, Beyonce? They had a whole room full of people who are good at vamping right like they could have. They could have reset and they needed to reset so that we didn't have to individually take on the burdens of making meaning of this. Yeah, and that is the worst of what's happening today. Now everybody is individually trying to make meaning of it, and particularly I see black women taking on like this again, load of trying to explain all these factors to the world. That sucks. So some person in power at the Oscars could have helped us with this. 

Sarah [00:17:02] And that's not an accident. After a week of watching Cantor Taji Brown Jackson at a confirmation hearing like just take crap from white men and a white woman, like it's not an accident. And, you know, and that's the thing. That's why. Violence is this manifestation like people do things for reasons? And. Will Smith did something for a reason, and it wasn't just a joke. People ask for lots of complicated. Factors, right, and we can't understand that. Obviously, no one. But Will Smith is going to understand exactly, and maybe he won't ever understand exactly what happened there. Right? But that doesn't mean like. Because it's both simultaneously true that the joke was horrible, that it is a manifestation of all these terrible moments in our history, both recent and ancient, and also that if we are going to live together, we have to decide on some universal truths, even understanding that there are parts of our experiences that are unknowable to one another. Not because we're going to throw somebody in jail, not because we discard Will Smith. I think we have too much moral certitude around violence and particularly the perpetrators of violence in a way that reduces their humanity. Absolutely. We know that's to be true when there are issues of race that are harmful. It's not. We've had lots of conversations on this show about the way we deal with violence, including inside the criminal justice system is not just. And so that's important. And also, we don't hit. We just don't hit. It's so affecting to everyone who watches it, to who experiences, who has, you know, in that room alone, universes of experiences with violence that we'll never understand, that didn't ask to witness that I certainly didn't ask to witness in in my own home. It's just heartbreaking and it's heartbreaking for everyone involved. I think it just shows again, that that social fabric is wearing real thin in places, even the most prestigious, status filled, wealthy places. 

Beth [00:19:21] I think it's just a struggle to talk about how we don't hit when there's a lot of hitting in the movies that this event celebrates. We don't hit  is not a universally held value in this country, it's not. Yeah, that's it is not. And you see that in the reaction to how this went down, but even more so in the fact that these movies are filled with violence and filled with dramatic responses to stimulus. I mean, I don't pretend to understand how actors keep straight when they're a character and when they're themselves. There's just a lot going on here. And so again, I sort of hesitate to like, weigh in on, was this absolutely wrong for all time in all situations without any nuance around it? Like, I don't know. I also teach my children that we don't hit. And I also have not always held up to that value myself, right? Like we know, we all have these tendencies that we're fighting back against. And so again, like the only thing that I can can focus on here is just. When something goes wrong, who do we want to be in the aftermath? And I do not want to be a person who starts lashing out at other people on social media in the aftermath of something. I want to be a person who in the room is able to gather everyone and say, oof, we need a second here because that was not normal and everybody's got a lot of feelings about it. And and we need to make space for the fact that something just happened. That is is not why we're all in this room and that we're all going to leave this room carrying a lot from. 

Sarah [00:21:08] Well, and I think I can for myself understand that what it pushes on for me is I want those people and the art they create to be that leadership, but that's just not what's happening in movies and TV. I want it to be true so badly. I really, really do. I want the right movie and the right television show and the right conversation surrounding it to, like, cure our societal ills desperately. I want that to be true in the same way, just to be honest and reflective, that I think some people treat sports that way. They want sports to be that curative, right, that we'll just get it out there and we'll all see it and we'll experience it together. And then that will move us forward. And like at the end of the show, I was feeling like I was like, mad. I'm like, How is nobody going to stand up and say, Hey, what just happened? You know, like in a way that is full of care? And I thought, that's not what these people do. They are professionals at the peak of a incredibly competitive industry, an industry that has its own intense history with racism and sexism and violence and sexual assault. This year alone, much less like going further back. And you know, and I think we do this with celebrities, we want them to be better, right? We want them to be some sort of higher evolved version of ourselves. And it's just they're just actors and actresses, and they deal with a lot of stuff that we will never understand. I think because of fame and celebrity and the way it works on you. But, you know, sort of, like you said, to ask them in that moment, which I think should have happened. I really wish they would have had it. But I'm trying not to be mad at them either, because I think it was easy for me to sit at home in my living room and think, who could walk in? Somebody have stopped and said, Hey, what just happened? But like in the shock of the moment and the the social pressure, especially in a industry like that in a moment like that had to be just insane. 

Beth [00:23:04] I think it's true that that that industry does good and harm at the same time. It it does. It does create a lot of change and it does a lot of harm at the same time, just like sports, just like everything. 

Sarah [00:23:14] Yep, yep. When I think that's distinctly unsatisfying because it's a place where there are endings like the one place where there are endings and some of them are happy and some of them are not. But there's a closing credits scene and we all get to decide. And I think we're hungry for that. I think that's the other reason that social fabric is getting a little thin as we want these moments where we've all decided what is right and what is wrong, and we get to to move forward with that knowledge. And there are so many spaces, both in entertainment and, of course, in politics where that is not true. We are going to talk about that next. We're going to talk about the president's speech in Warsaw over the weekend and his comment at the end, as well as the latest with the January 6th commission. So President Biden was overseas, he went to Europe. I thought there was some good things that happened. I thought the tightness of the alliance between the United States and Europe as it comes to this conflict was good and positive. I thought the progress on a partnership when it comes to Europe's energy supply was good positive. I thought the speech was good and positive and then at the end he just had to does this. He does this. This is not a new behavior. 

President Joe Biden [00:24:37] Possibilities for God's sake. This man cannot remain. Wow. God bless you all. 

Sarah [00:24:45] It's so hard because he's not wrong. I said it on a podcast to two or three weeks ago. Like, how can we all envision a way in which Vladimir Putin just goes back to Russia after this? It is. It is weird. And also, I am a podcaster and not the president of the United States. 

Beth [00:25:03] I both wish he had not said it and wish his team had not walked it back. 

Sarah [00:25:09] Interesting because they did hard fast with With, with a passion, with a passion. 

Beth [00:25:15] Yeah, it's tough because when you're dealing with someone like Vladimir Putin who will lie about everything and who has no moral grounding, it's tempting to say what difference does it make any way he's going to do what he wants to do. And I think there's a lot of truth in that, and our response to him has largely assumed that because in the process of walking this back, you have heard President Biden saying in lots of different ways and with a varying degree of annoyance, I told you sanctions wouldn't stop him. Yeah, the point of sanctions is to put pressure toward regime change, that's all sanctions were ever going to do here is see if the Russian people would have enough of him. So he did just say the quiet part out loud. But what else is going on with all the sanctions, if not putting pressure on the Russian people to put pressure on Vladimir Putin? The Russian people are not going to convince Putin to stop the war. They are going to have him as their leader or they're not. And he's going to do this violence as long as he is their leader. Sanctions or no? And that's the clear picture. And so there is a part of me that thinks, well, what is the most important thing here? Your words are pretty important, not because of the impact on Vladimir Putin, but because lots of people around the world are listening. And I think the Biden administration has tried to very carefully say to the world, America will not escalate this conflict. America will participate, but we will not escalate. And I don't know if that's the right strategy or the wrong strategy, but I respect it once he said this. If we had not changed anything else, I don't know if it would make much of a difference. But I think it is important for his team to respect him enough to just stand by what he says on that stage. He's not new. He's been here before. If it is to be cleaned up, let him clean it up. Let him go around and say, No, this is not a change of our tactics. But I'm expressing my personal feeling here, and I mean it. I just think him being a strong, authoritative leader is domestically critical and it is important on the world stage as well. 

Sarah [00:27:33] I think I feel a little bit differently on the sanctions part. I think the sanctions can exert pressure on him outside of just the people of Russia's reaction to it. I think a lot about that piece of information we talked about that he's been in seclusion because of COVID without a lot of advisers. And there's a part of me that thinks that the sanctions change things for him on the ground in a way he cannot avoid, no matter how many people are telling him good news. So I think that's part of the power of those. And I've also been thinking a lot about, you know, several experts and Ezra Klein has been having sort of an ongoing conversation about this on his show. Like, should we treat him like a rational actor? Do we act like he's an evil villain? Or do we treat him like a rational actor? And I think that's a much harder call. But I I think the danger of this comment was Vladimir Putin believes we want to remove him from power and for better or for worse, his beliefs and how he acts on them are incredibly relevant. And so I think like confirming this instinct for him was bad, and I think I understand the instinct to walk it back to say like, no, because that's what he thinks. And you know, there's all kinds of debate about like, you know, the way we expanded, Naito pushed him into this corner. I don't buy that completely. I think that isolates that factor too intensely. But I think it was a factor. And I think that's a really difficult to think through. So I get the instinct to walk it back. But I think you're right. I mean, I think there was room. I also think there should be room for the president to say, this is our strategy and this is how I feel, and both are relevant because I'm the president. There was probably room to do more of that surrounding his addendum to the speech. Now we also have an ever evolving situation with the Jan. six commission. OK, so we got a lot of text messages from Jenny Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court. Justice Clarence Thomas to Mark Meadows, then chief of staff, to former President Trump. Now for those of you who are not on our premium community, let it be known I am not a. Neutral observer when it comes to Ginni Thomas, I loathe Ginni Thomas. She is an extreme ideologue. I have known this for a long time because I follow her with more closeness than it's probably required, but it is where it what it is. I'm glad the rest of the world is finally catching up to this, though. Her text messages to him were unhinged and completely reflective of somebody out of touch with the political reality on the ground or just the the the reality, the one reality on the ground. 

Beth [00:30:13] And why does that matter? Well. The Supreme Court has already been asked to make decisions related to counting of the votes in the 2020 election. The Supreme Court has already been asked to make assessments about what evidence will and won't be produced in connection with former President Trump. The Supreme Court almost certainly is going to be. Ask many more questions about what evidence will reach Congress and what Congress will do with that evidence from here on out. And I learned as a first year law student that officers of the court avoid even the appearance of impropriety. And I just think we're well past that here. Well, past that was clearance of impropriety, and there is no authority to decide for Justice Thomas that he should recuse himself from these cases. And here's how I really feel for just going to be honest about where we are. I think no matter what your judicial philosophy or political ideology, you should wish for Clarence Thomas to resign from the court now. I think you should wish for his retirement because if you are wondering around in the world just waiting for the day when states can criminalize abortion again, you want that to come from a court with as much political legitimacy as possible. And if you care about upholding a justice system with some appearance of legitimacy as it relates to accountability for people who have abused their office, you should wish for Justice Thomas to retire. This country does not need another impeachment. That would be a terrible thing to try to impeach a Supreme Court justice at this moment. Not a soul can possibly want that. That's not true. A soul will want it. Lots of souls will want it because we're a country of lots of people and their Twitter accounts. I bet they do. And there are people and I want to say this with respect. There are people who need that kind of public accountability a lot more than I do. I am just not a person who needs revenge or shaming or retribution. I want things to move forward always as quickly and as lovingly as they can. And for me, 

Sarah [00:32:29] it's highly relevant to all our previous conversations, it does. 

Beth [00:32:32] And so to me, consistent with how I feel about the Oscars, I just want to figure out how we respond to this situation. It has happened. It is terrible. It is not the only situation where we have someone with a problematic family member on a very public stage. And right now, I think what it calls for is Justice Thomas, who's been talking about retirement for a long time anyway to go ahead and make that move. 

Sarah [00:33:00] We have been working our way around the country interviewing local candidates about what's happening in their region. We are using the framework of Colin Woodard's American nations and this week we're going to the Far West. We're talking to Britt Raybould, a candidate for the Idaho House of Representatives. Is also a third generation Idahoan and CFO of her family farm. We think you're really going to enjoy hearing from her and listening to her perspective on this particular region of the country. We are so excited to be here today with Britt Raybould, candidate for Idaho, House of Representatives district 34b. She is a third generation Idahoan, CFO of her family farm and we are thrilled that you have joined us today, Britt. 

Britt Raybould [00:33:49] Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you both. 

Sarah [00:33:52] So I know you probably know we're we're sort of tackling a lot of the elections around the country through the lens of Colin Woodard American nations. Idaho is in the Far West. I thought this particular fact was so interesting and important to your area of the country's history. He says that it is the one part of the continent where environmental factors trumped ethnographic ones. That the land determined a lot of the history. And I thought as a farmer, I'm sure you definitely understand that. And I wanted you to tell us a little bit about the ways in which the land defines your politics and the politics of Idaho. 

Britt Raybould [00:34:31] You know, the thing that's really interesting about Idaho's history is that if you follow the geography of the state, you can follow how the state was settled. And so as people moved across the country and they hit that eastern boundary of what would become the state of Idaho, they basically ran into a desert, right? And you know, there's the Snake River that runs through through it, through that plane. But ultimately, the farther away you moved from the river, the more you're going to run into a desert region. And so as you look at where settlers landed and the farming communities that they built up, it was tied so directly to that Snake River and particularly over in eastern Idaho, the Snake River Valley, because if you moved very far away from it, you weren't. You didn't have the water resources to be able to either grow crops or to run cattle. And so if I'm looking at sort of the modern day Idaho and how that landscape has, you know, sort of grown out in terms of what we look at from, you know, priorities and politics and everything else, it still remains about water in so many ways. You know, we look at all the growth that's happening in our state, and one of the aspects of that growth is how do we make sure we maintain a sustainable and clean source of water not only for our communities, but also for agriculture, which remains a significant portion of our state's overall economy? But then, of course, we've got these growing technology sectors. And as some of your listeners may know, technology manufacturing can require a significant amount of water to do their production. You know, data centers use a lot of water for their cooling facilities. You know, in short, the things that we are dealing with today in Idaho, in many ways, while they are slightly different animals in terms of what we're focused on, still end up circling around this issue of resources in the best way to use those resources in the state. 

Beth [00:36:18] The characterization of the economy and the state overall. Can you zoom into your district and tell us about what really drives the jobs and the energy in your district? 

Britt Raybould [00:36:28] So Madison County is primarily driven by agriculture, health care and education. Rexburg is home to Brigham Young University, Idaho. That campus, during a particular semester, has somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty thousand students on campus. So in a county with a population of roughly 52000, you know, they make up a good chunk of the folks who are who are in that area at any given time. However, Madison County also remains a center for agriculture. Idaho's known as the potato state for a reason. And Madison County is responsible for over nine percent of the total acres grown in the state. So we're a relatively small landmass. But within that mass, we pack in quite a few farming acres still and predominantly potatoes. And then, of course, in terms of health care, we have our Madison Madison County Memorial Hospital has a significant obstetric center. It has a lot of associated surgical facilities and options because if you go outside of Rexburg, the next closest hospital facilities are in Idaho Falls. Forty five minutes away, so Madison Memorial ends up providing a significant amount of health care for Fremont County to the North Teton County to the East, and even Jefferson County to the south of us. And so with those three sort of economic drivers, you see some commonalities within the community and that there's a high value on education. You know, there's an appreciation for the health care workers that we have in our community because it means that we don't have to go even so far as to have to go like, say, down to Salt Lake, which is over three and a half hours away from where we're at for what used to be considered sort of specialized medical care. It's it's now in our own backyard. And then if you look at that university complex that we have, it adds a level of diversity. And I won't say the college is everyone's favorite place in the community because college kids are the, you know, have their own sort of special flavor. But it does add something to the community to do not only have that institution, but to have those individuals who are there on campus. This and serving as professors and faculty, 

Sarah [00:38:38] there's been a lot of national reporting about an influx of population Idaho, particularly from California. Have you experienced that in your area? 

Britt Raybould [00:38:46] To a lesser extent, the majority of the California transfers or move ins have come into the Treasure Valley, which is over on the western side of the state around the Boise area. We have seen some, but the interesting part is that most of the people who are moving in are moving in but keeping their jobs from where they moved. So these are folks who are in a position to do a remote work from home situation where they either are fully working from home or potentially are just having to go into their office once every couple of weeks or once a month or something along those lines. But they've relocated their family to that community for a variety of reasons. They would like a little smaller town to be in. They like, you know, the easy access that we have to the outdoors. We've got an excellent public school system and they've just decided that for themselves, they needed, needed and wanted their families to be to be somewhere else and their jobs have allowed them to relocate for that purpose. 

Beth [00:39:45] Talk to us about the politics of your district. You know, I understand sitting here in Kentucky. You know, my my perception of Idaho is that it's a very red state. I would imagine a lot of local races are decided by primaries rather than a general election. Does that hold true for your district? And if it does, can you help us understand why that is how that came to be? 

Britt Raybould [00:40:07] So Madison County has at various turns been called the most conservative county in the nation, not just in the United States. If you go in, if you look at historical voting records, it is definitely a conservative county and that's a conservative district. It is likely I haven't seen any names pop up to indicate otherwise, but it is likely that the race for this for the Idaho Legislature across the Senate and both House seats will be decided in the primary. The same, I suspect, will will hold true for the two county commissioners that I believe are on the ballot. I think I've got to remember what other county officials are up up in this particular cycle. But the short version is is that there is not a viable Democratic Party in Madison County. That was not always the case. If you go back into the sixties and seventies, you know, Idaho Democrats had not only a competitive spot on the ballot, but oftentimes would would win in these local races. I can only speak from from my personal experience and observations, but I get the sense that when politics became really nationalized and everyone started associating the state Democratic Party with the National Democratic Party, that they lost traction and that because of what was happening at a national level, was getting associated with those state Democrats. That even though I don't know how many of the historical Democrats would have necessarily describe themselves as liberal based on that version of the party. But but that's the brush they got painted with, and I think as a result, the the local party, at least within my community, lost a lot of its traction because of that association. In particular, I would say with what was going on during the 1980s and 1990s, and they just have never come back from that. 

Sarah [00:41:59] Well, you're a Republican, but you know, in a in a state that's so red in a county that's so conservative. How do you maintain your independence? I mean, I know I read through some of your press clippings and in past elections and you get criticized as not being conservative enough. You know, you spoke out against false claims of election fraud during the 2020 election. So how do you maintain that independence and a political spotlight that? 

Britt Raybould [00:42:22] You know, for all the concern about whether or not someone's conservative enough? This is a community that also appreciates people who speak truth. You may end up not having a full agreement with, you know, without, you know, with all the folks that crossed paths with. But if you can explain why you think what you think and why you've taken the position you've taken, you may not necessarily get a convert to your position. But I find that most of the folks in my community are respectful of the fact that we may have a difference, you know, a difference of opinion. And there is something to be said for the fact that this is a community that again, because of its still close association with agriculture and farming, having an independent streak is is not the worst thing in the world. And I also struggle with this notion of who gets to define what it means to be conservative. It seems to be a sliding scale, depending upon who the finger's getting pointed at. And from my perspective and and the position that I've taken during this next election cycle, I think it has more to do with being authentic and transparent about why you're taking the steps you're taking and why you're holding the positions you're holding in that. True Conservative is someone who can explain to you why they think, what they think, why they're proposing to do what they do, and they don't automatically fall back and say, well, because the Constitution says I'm not interested in shielding my actions behind the Constitution, I should be able to explain what I think and why I'm doing what I'm doing. And if I can't do it without frankly blaming the Constitution for my decisions or my behavior, then I'm falling short. 

Sarah [00:44:05] A big part of that independent streak, it seems, is touched in the history of this area of the country, so much of that tough terrain was settled by big corporations, mining corporations, railroad corporations, even the federal government. And there's a lot of history of resentment towards, like the people in charge out east or the people in charge out west or the people in charge in D.C.. Do you still feel like that informs a lot of the politics of Idaho? 

Britt Raybould [00:44:33] I think there's a good chunk of it. I mean, there's there is a minority that is very loud about the fact that things, for instance, that Idaho should take over management and ownership of all the federal lands in the state. The problem with that argument is that just the cost, for instance, associated with fighting the wildfires that break out on those federal lands alone would bankrupt the state or come close to it, depending on what the fire year looked like. The the argument that gets made is, Well, you know, we can go in and we can we can get the resources off of those lands and we can do, you know, potential property taxes and some other things. And that will help cover the costs. And I've worked on state budgets. My first go around when I was in the Idaho Legislature and I just don't see how the math works for us to go down that path. And but that's not the argument people want to have, right? They don't want it to be about numbers and sense. They want it to be about the idea that Idaho is, you know, belongs to Idahoans and that the federal government shouldn't be involved. And my suggestion is more along the lines of let's pursue more partnerships where the state takes primacy. And so what that means is is, well, the the feds may potentially still, you know, hold the title, so to speak, that when it comes to the day to day management and long term planning for those resources that Idaho has that responsibility and oversight. And you know, I think options like that, you know, accomplish the bulk of what it is that folks say they want, which is, you know, not having someone from bakkies come in and tell us what we can and can't do. And yet at the same time reduces the risk to the state, you know, to the state's bottom line because of the realities of what we're looking at, just in terms of where those acres are and the potential risk that we have from natural disasters, you know, as a result of just the fact that those lands are in areas where there's lightning strikes and we tend to have large fires on a regular basis and it costs a lot of money to fight those fires. 

Beth [00:46:31] You mentioned the feelings that folks have about the university and your district. I'm wondering again, through this prism of kind of western independence, what is the view of big business in Idaho right now? Is it a it is a very pro-business environment? Are you seeing sort of populist backlash to big business? How do people view it in your area? 

Britt Raybould [00:46:51] You know, I think it's mixed. And I think that's probably true for a lot of communities. I mean, the facts on the ground is that within a small community, employers of any given size or, you know, that have, say, more than a dozen employees on staff, you know, by default, they're just going to hold a different position within the community just because of the number of people who are involved, right? Again, it's a question of numbers. And you know, if I'm looking around at that, you know, if there's frustrations or concerns about big businesses in the community, you know, with within Rexburg, with, you know, the university being one of the biggest institutions, from my perspective, it becomes sort of a question of, well, what would happen to the community if for some reason the university wasn't here anymore? And so, you know, sometimes there's there's questions about this idea of do we have too much dependency on any one particular employer for the health of the community? You know, you come over to someplace like Boise and the employer situation here is is one where vaccine mandates became a really big deal where some employers stipulated that they wanted their employees to, you know, to be vaccinated before returning to work. And that that was, you know, that was a requirement to continue being employed. I believe all of them offered religious exemptions. I'm not sure what the status was within the hospitals because I know CMS, the Centers for Medicaid Services were responsible for determining how that vaccination process happened in hospitals, so I'm not sure how the exemption process worked in the hospitals. But I know that that Micron offered exemptions and when it was all said and done, know I believe it was somewhere in the neighborhood of under 100 people out of, I think over six thousand employees ended up leaving and going elsewhere. And all told, even for those employees that left, it's not entirely clear that they left just because of the vaccine requirement. So as I said, I think there's there's mixed opinions where where business is concerned. But at the same time, you know, because of the size of Idaho, a lot of us still know the people who own these businesses. Right. I, I still know. Most of the local farmers, personally, you know, within Madison County, even, you know, they can be large operations, I still know the the Hospital Foundation board that oversees the county hospital. I still know firsthand. You know, first name basis, know all of our county commissioners. And even when I come over here to Boise, I know many of the leaders within the businesses that are over here in Boise, where for all of our growth, we still are a small state in general. And I think it's a lot harder to be mad at organizations when you when you know the people who are running them. But I can see how that could change in coming years. 

Sarah [00:49:48] One of my favorite parts about interviewing candidates from across the country is to get more familiar with some of the ways in which different states elect their their elected leaders in Idaho. Does it differently? Tell our audience how Idaho districts for state and House seats. 

Britt Raybould [00:50:06] So Idaho's state legislative districts. So this is in reference for congressional districts, though our state legislative districts, there's 35 of them. And within those thirty five districts, you have representation from a senator and then two representatives in the Idaho House. Those two seats in the House or At-Large seats. So, so long as someone lives within the district boundaries, they can run for either Seat A or B. And both individuals are our representatives for for the entire district. 

Sarah [00:50:39] Or seat a one time and see be the next time. As I learned.

Britt Raybould [00:50:43] that is an option. It is. It is possible to run for one seat in one election and then jump over and run for a different seat in the in the next election. This goes around. There's roughly when it was all said and done after the census, just over fifty two thousand people per district. If you look at the map of Idaho because we have a weird shape, you know we're not nice and square rectangular. Some of our districts look like a little funny. But for the most part, the districts are either contained within counties or go over into adjoining counties and connect with each other. Right now, we're in the middle of our filing process that started on February 28. That filing window closes on March 11th, and after that, everybody will know exactly who they're running against, both in state legislative races and also in our statewide offices that are up for election this year. 

Sarah [00:51:34] And you have a nonpartisan commission that draws your congressional districts, right? 

Britt Raybould [00:51:37] It's technically Partizan, but it's three Republicans and three Democrats that are appointed by respective individuals from each. But it is a it is a six person committee and the legislative district map that was adopted after this latest round of looking at the boundaries, it was approved six zero. So it had the full support and approval of the redistricting committee. 

Beth [00:52:00] I want to ask you about your farm experience and how it influences your your politics. You're the CFO of a farm. You have been the first woman president of the National Potato Council. I come from a family of college educated, politically active farmers as well. And I know that it's been very influential for me, and I noticed on your website that you continually emphasize education as as one of your key issues. I would love to hear you talk about how your agricultural background led you to prioritize education and what that means. Practically what what would you be advocating for back in the state legislature? 

Britt Raybould [00:52:38] So I was a first generation college graduate. Neither of my parents attended college and I was also so that not met when I went to graduate school. I was a first generation graduate student and now I'm doing a Ph.D. program, and so I will be a first generation Ph.D.. What the farm showed me is that you have to work hard to get the things that matter to you, right, that that there is an investment that you have to be willing to make to achieve the things that that have value. You know, when when you go out in the spring and you're planting your crops, you had no guarantee that come August, September, there's going to be anything there for you to harvest, right? You are, as the joke goes, within our farming community. Anybody who farms that says they're not a gambler is lying because it's a huge gamble. And the thing is, is that there are a lot of things you can do to help mitigate those risks. And it was interesting for me to look around and see, you know, other operations that maybe didn't do some things the way that we did them. You know, everybody has their own style, as I'm sure you've seen within your own community of of how they go about handling their operations and the best practices that they employ on their farms. And I just watched, as you know, my father and my grandfather, and now my brother and I navigate what has become an increasingly complex terrain. Running a farm, it isn't just the going out into the field and planting crops and making sure they grow. It is a complex business operation that requires things that I'm guessing, you know, even my parents would have been surprised, you know, 20 or 30 years ago to think we would be having to deal with today. And so if I'm looking at education and I'm considering what the future holds education in many respects, it's it's about power, right? It's about the ability to have some direction over your future and over your ability to have a say so in what happens next. You know, there was the commercials. I think that that ran on NBC for a number of years when I was a kid, that was, you know, the more, you know, you know, those commercials that focused on sort of this idea of, you know, here's just a little tidbit of information to help you be better informed about a particular issue. And I committed early on to being a lifelong student. I think there is so much value in encouraging people to to continue learning, whether it's in an official classroom or not. And so when I look at education policy within the state of Idaho, what I'm looking at is about opportunity and ensuring that people have that ability to reach their full potential. It's a blessing. I believe in my life that I've been able to accomplish and do everything that I did, and a big part of that is because of the education I was able to receive. I had amazing teachers in my public school. I had amazing professors in college and I've had incredible mentors along the way that emphasized the importance of education. So when you ask, how does education fit into all of this in from a foreign background, my parents taught me to work hard and that carried me through and helped me become successful. And a big part of that success was my willingness to to step into that education ring and basically take all of the opportunities that were there in front of me. And I want to ensure that for those who come behind me that they have those, you know, that they have a similar opportunity available to them because education makes so many things possible. And I hate the thought of somebody missing out on, you know, living their dream or pursuing something that means a lot to them because they didn't have that education. And you know, it could be technical education, you know, the ability for someone to become an electrician or a plumber. How easy was it the last time you had a problem in your house to track one of those professionals down, right? You know, or if it's someone who wants to go on and wants to become a rocket scientist, I I am nonpartisan when it comes to, you know, the education that someone wants to pursue. But if you want to know more, you want to learn more, you want to be more. I think it's my job as an elected official to help ensure that those opportunities are available. 

Beth [00:56:56] Well, I have really enjoyed talking with you, Britt, and so appreciate you running in a time when it is difficult to be a serious person running for office in a lot of in a lot of our elections across the country. It is very inspiring to talk with people who are doing that and who are out there doing the work and just putting one foot in front of the other. So we wish you lots of luck in your primary coming up and we'd love to stay in touch. 

Sarah [00:57:18] You want to tell our audience where they can find out more about you or donate to your campaign. 

Britt Raybould [00:57:22] Oh, that would be fantastic. If they go to brittforidaho.com. They will find out all of that and more, and any donation is welcome. I value that contribution in more than one way because it meant that someone else took the time to seek me out and at the same time, at a time when I know money can be tight for folks, you know, even if it's just a few dollars. It matters because it shows people just people care and they're invested, and I have so much appreciation for that. 

Sarah [00:57:54] Well, thank you. 

Britt Raybould [00:57:55] Thank you, both, I appreciate you. 

Sarah [00:57:58] Thank you to Britt for coming on the show, we really appreciate it, thank you for hanging with us. The wide and varied conversation, as usual. We love it when you listen. We love all of you who are pre-ordering our book. If you haven't done that already, please do. We will be back in your ears on Friday and until then, Keep It Nuanced Ya’ll. 

Beth [00:58:27] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.

Sarah Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Beth Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers (Read their own names)  Martha Bronitsky, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.

The Kriebs, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, Jared Minson, Emily Neesley, The Pentons, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sarah Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karin True, Onica Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Vilelli, Katherine Vollmer, Amy Whited.

Beth Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Jeff Davis, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer, and Tim Miller. 

Beth [00:59:30] Sarah, to your point about endings out of the blue this weekend, Ellen looked at me from the couch, Ellen as my six year old daughter and said, Mommy, is there still a war in Ukraine? And I said, there is honey. And she said, How long is that going to last? 

Beth [00:59:48] Oh, and I said, I don't, I don't know kiddo. And that is the question that everyone is thinking about in different degrees, that is the right question. But how war ends has always been really difficult. That's why we don't start wars, because how they end is the hardest question. 

Sarah [01:00:07] Yeah.