The California Effect with Leslie Foss

Jun 06, 2023

TOPICS DISCUSSED

McCarthy and Biden’s Debt Limit Deal Signed into Law
Conservative Backlash to Corporate Inclusion Policies
The California Effect
Outside Politics: Sarah and Leslie talk television

EPISODE RESOURCES

Save the Date: Pantsuit Politics Live in Paducah October 21, 2023

Be sure to sign up to get the Pantsuit Politics Newsletter delivered to your inbox every Friday. We’d love to share your thoughts in our June newsletters, send submissions to hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com

Thanks to Leslie for joining Sarah as guest co-host for today’s episode, you can hear her:

Hard News, Joyful Movement, and Bachelor Nation (Pantsuit Politics with Leslie)
More to Say: Daylight Savings Time is the Worst with Sarah and Leslie

DEBT LIMIT DEAL IS SIGNED INTO LAW

CONSERVATIVE BACKLASH TO CORPORATE INCLUSION POLICIES

THE CALIFORNIA EFFECT

LESLIE’S TV RECOMMENDATIONS

Andor
Righteous Gemstones 'The Righteous Gemstones' Season 3 Gets Release Date, Trailer
Featuring Monster Trucks and Steve Zahn (Variety)
The Great
Welcome to Wrexham
Love Island

TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth [00:00:08] And this is Beth Silvers.

Sarah [00:00:10] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Pantsuit Politics, where we take a different approach to the news. We're currently on our summer schedule, which means Beth is out right now enjoying some time by the pool. I have a very special guest host with me here today, my beloved friend, Leslie Foss. Say hello, Leslie.

Leslie Foss [00:00:43] Hi, everybody.

Sarah [00:00:44] Leslie is one of my best friends. We met in law school. Now she lives in California, raising three beautiful boys. The California point is super relevant to the main section of the show where we're going to talk about California. We're just going to talk about California.

Leslie Foss [00:00:57] Yeah, the best state. That's what we're going to talk about.

Sarah [00:01:02] Okay. And she is actually our resident daylight savings time expert here at Pantsuit Politics. She did More to Say with me on the Daylight Saving Time. We're not going to give her any time on the show to talk about that, because if we did, we would be here for 3 hours.

Leslie Foss [00:01:17] Yeah, that's what you think. I'll bring it up somehow. Don't worry.

Sarah [00:01:19] She's going to go work it in.

Leslie Foss [00:01:21] That's like me at a cocktail party. Watch out. I'm going to talk about this.

Sarah [00:01:26] We'll put the link in the show notes, you guys, and we'll make it available to everyone. She feels so passionately. Listen, she's converted me on the Daylight Savings Time issue. But first, we're gonna talk about some headlines. We're going to talk about the debt ceiling deal. We're going to talk about Chick-fil-A is woke now, because we've gone all the way back around.

Leslie Foss [00:01:42] All the way around.

Sarah [00:01:43] All the way back around. And then we're going to tackle California and then we're going to wrap up the show, as we always do Outside Politics, by talking about Leslie's favorite television shows and where they align and diverge from my personal television viewing habits. So get excited about that. Before we get started, we're going to take a little bit different approach to the summer, and we wanted to invite you to contribute to our summer newsletter. June is Pride Month, Juneteenth, and this year it's the first anniversary of the overturning of Roe v Wade. Your experiences and perspectives on these issues and celebrations work on us and our community, and if you have a reflection you'd be willing to share with our audience, please send it to our team at Hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com. And if you don't get our newsletter, you can sign up for it in the link in the show notes. Our newsletter is basically just a little love letter from our team to you that we send every Friday. It's free and it's an easy way to support the show and keep up with everything that's going on at Pantsuit Politics. And also very big announcement. You're here for a very big Paducah focused announcement, which I know you love.

Leslie Foss [00:02:40] Hit me.

Sarah [00:02:42] We are going to have a special Pantsuit Politics weekend in Paducah, the weekend of October 21st. We're going to have a live show. Beth's going to teach a yoga class. We're going to wait for this one. We're going to do an event with chef Sara Bradley.

Leslie Foss [00:02:58] That's what I was waiting for.

Sarah [00:02:59] You're going to come? You should come. I want you to come.

Leslie Foss [00:03:02] That's something.

Sarah [00:03:02] Okay. It's going to be amazing. We're going to have all the details coming later this summer. But we wanted to tell you now so you save the date. We're going to converge on Paducah. It's going to be amazing.

Leslie Foss [00:03:11] This is your dream come true. All you want to do.

Sarah [00:03:14] It's my dream come true. It's chef Sara Bradley's dream come true, as Leslie says. You sent me a clip from Top Chef where Sarah is talking about being the "capital of the world". And she was like, how much does [inaudible] pay you Sarah to go out there and push Paducah on the rest of the American populace?

Leslie Foss [00:03:29] It's Wild.

Sarah [00:03:29] Nothing. We do it for free.

Leslie Foss [00:03:31] Okay.

Sarah [00:03:32] So there you go. All right. Next up, we're going to talk about some headlines.

Audio Playback: Pres. Joe Biden [00:03:44] No one got everything they wanted, but the American people got what they needed. We averted an economic crisis and an economic collapse.

Sarah [00:03:54] I love that. I love that energy. I wish we could do this really great realignment to nice, normal legislative compromise outside of a process that is radical and ridiculous. But I'll take what I can get.

Leslie Foss [00:04:08] Yes, I think we'll all take what we can get at this point.

Sarah [00:04:11] That's the theme of this debt ceiling, I think.

Leslie Foss [00:04:13] I think so. It was very scary and it didn't happen. The bad things didn't happen. Nothing super good happened. Nothing super bad happened. Great.

Sarah [00:04:23] Yeah. And you see in the House and the Senate voting both extremes were mad. The hardcore progressives and the hardcore conservatives were like, "We're not going to vote for it." And I say, "Okay, you're right. That's what we're here in Congress to do." I actually think that's probably a pretty good sign when the both extremes-- although I really hate even formulating like that. I do not put Matt Gaetz and AOC in the same camp of extremism and anywhere close to the same camps. But you get my point.

Leslie Foss [00:04:54] I felt like it was from both sides pretty performatively upset. You know what I mean?

Sarah [00:05:00] I do feel that way.

Leslie Foss [00:05:02] I saw that they were like, we're paying the ransom, we're doing this stuff, but we're not happy about it or whatever. But it's like, are you really mad about it? Are you really that mad?

Sarah [00:05:12] Nobody filibustered. Nobody called Kevin McCarthy up to be voted on again as speaker. Nobody took the nuclear option that he gave them at the beginning of the speakership.

Leslie Foss [00:05:23] I'm curious what you think. I was reading something about it that was like one of the reasons that they were able to pass it with a pretty fair turnout for the Democrats, at least, is that this group of Republicans doesn't super care about limiting government. That's not their big motivating factor if there had been cultural issues somehow tied up in it that they would have dug their heels in. But they're not super motivated by limiting the size or scope of government as past Republican parties have been. That's true.

Sarah [00:05:57] No, I think that's 100% accurate. I mean, look at what Donald Trump says he's going to do if he becomes president again. It's like greatly expand the power of the presidency to fire anyone at will, to get rid of civil service regulations. I mean, not that hypocrisy ever stops them, but they couldn't in good conscience crow about limited government and then stand up there and clap along during these Trump rallies, which a lot of them do. So, no, I think that's definitely a shift in the modern Republican Party, is that the idea of limited government, they want to use the power of the federal government to limit speech that they don't agree with, particularly corporate speech, which we'll get to in just a minute. But yeah, no, I think that's totally accurate. The most interesting thing I read this morning is that Kevin McCarthy, more than previous Republican speakers, likes the job. He likes whipping up votes. He likes just the process of government, which I find very encouraging. I think that's what made Nancy Pelosi a really good speaker, is just you respect how this works. You just like the process. The rest of them didn't want to do it. Paul Ryan definitely didn't want to do the job. He hated that job.

Leslie Foss [00:07:08] Yeah.

Sarah [00:07:08] I think John Boehner hated the job by the end. I don't know why he enjoys the job. I think it's a much tougher job with that caucus. But hey, bygones.

Leslie Foss [00:07:18] Have you heard him referred to as a paint sponge? Because I have, which I think is a pretty accurate lineup.

Sarah [00:07:26] I think he's a paint sponge and a needy love sponge all at the same time. And that's probably what you need to be as the speaker of the House of the Republican majority.

Leslie Foss [00:07:32] I can imagine. Yeah, he really wants that job and he's willing to be in that position, which I cannot imagine is pleasant.

Sarah [00:07:41] It doesn't even seem to cause him pain. It didn't seem like he was struggling. It seemed like he liked it. It looked like he was going to kick it across the line. And to his eternal credit, he seemed to have a pretty good team of negotiators. It's not like he said Matt Gaetz is in there, you know what I'm saying?

Leslie Foss [00:07:54] Yeah. Who were the negotiators?

Sarah [00:07:56] It was Patrick McHenry from North Carolina who got, I think, the majority of the credit in the press. And then Louisiana Rep Garret Graves.

Leslie Foss [00:08:05] Okay. Good for them.

Sarah [00:08:06] Good for them. Good job not crashing our economy into oblivion.

Leslie Foss [00:08:13] It's gold stars for the bare minimum. Good job, everybody. See you in one year. We'll do it again.

Sarah [00:08:20] No, I think we got till 2025. I think we have till 2025. I'm pretty sure. They pushed it past the presidential.

Leslie Foss [00:08:25] Oh, they did? Okay. Then great job, everyone.

Sarah [00:08:28] Great job so we can do this completely unnecessary, stupid procedural thing again. It's great. Maybe we'll win the presidency and the majority and they can get rid of it, which they definitely should have done under Janet Yellen's instruction last time.

Leslie Foss [00:08:40] They should have. I listen to an interesting discussion too about the use of the 14th Amendment that they can't really test it. There's no way to test it without actually doing it, which of course that makes sense. But that's tricky. It's tricky.

Sarah [00:08:55] I think we should abandon it. That was a fun little talk. It led to some great editorials, but let's just move on from that because I don't think that's a good idea.

Leslie Foss [00:09:01] No, we can't we can't risk that as a test case.

Sarah [00:09:05] No, better idea. Just get rid of the debt ceiling. Just saying.

Leslie Foss [00:09:06] Yeah.

Sarah [00:09:07] Okay. We got the important stuff done. We averted an economic collapse. Good job, everybody. Now we can talk about stuff that doesn't really matter at all, but matters a great deal to conservative media.

Leslie Foss [00:09:18] So much.

Sarah [00:09:19] First off, President Biden fell down, which headlines, videos everywhere. Can I tell you what I saw? Here's what happened. So it was sub tweeted in a Succession slot, which is an Instagram account that just shared Succession memes as like a Succession joke. And I thought, is this air? Did he actually fall? Because I feel like it would be everywhere if he fell. Oh, it was everywhere when I went to Google and searched Biden fall. It was everywhere.

Leslie Foss [00:09:46] And I was like, oh my gosh, did he die? The number of times that I saw it and then I was like, oh, he tripped over a sandbag and got back up. Okay.

Sarah [00:09:53] That was so funny. I saw the headlines and I saw on so many of the headlines. He was like, "I got sandbagged," and I thought he was using that as the expression, like I got sandbagged. And then I saw a picture of him pointing to said sandbag. And I laughed so hard I was like, oh, no, he actually tripped over an actual physical sandbag.

Leslie Foss [00:10:11] I mean.

Sarah [00:10:11] I feel so bad for the advance person. The sandbag was used to weigh down a teleprompter. I bet it was probably the Air Force. I'm like playing out the advanced scenarios in my head. And he popped right back up.

Leslie Foss [00:10:24] Right back up. Seemed totally fine, but it's, of course, something they're going to latch on to because he is very old and they want to show that he's frail and not up for the job. And it's tough. I don't like seeing old men fall down. I'm going to be very honest. It makes me very sad and uncomfortable. And I like to see old men in sweater vest and little hats.

Sarah [00:10:47] I like it when he's on his bike. I feel like it's a little dangerous, but it does make me feel better when he's on his bike.

Leslie Foss [00:10:53] He's very fit for his age, but looking at another four years, it's tough.

Sarah [00:11:00] I've just really had to make my peace with I am not Joe Biden. I'm not in Joe Biden's body. And it reminded me a lot of when Hillary was so sick and she sort of collapsed at that public speaking gig. But guess who's fine? Hillary Clinton. Totally, 100% healthy and fine. Sometimes you get sick. Sometimes you fall down. And I think for all intents and purposes, he seems very capable. I don't see anything to me that indicates that he is ill or hiding it or a puppet or whatever, particularly that debt ceiling negotiation. Which tracks very well for sort of his leadership and his experience and the way that he thinks about Congress and the presidency. And so, I've just had to make my peace. He thinks he can do it, and I have no reason not to trust him. I just don't.

Leslie Foss [00:11:49] And what's the alternative? Is Trump the fittest physical specimen? I know he says so as just that one doctor he had.

Sarah [00:11:58] I don't think he would bounce up that fast for the record.

Leslie Foss [00:12:01] Should we have them compete in some sort of old man triathlon and see?

Sarah [00:12:07] I'm not opposed to that.

Leslie Foss [00:12:09] That might be something.

Sarah [00:12:10] You're on to something there, I think.

Leslie Foss [00:12:12] Can Trump ride a bicycle? Has he ever ridden a bicycle?

Sarah [00:12:16] That's a good question. I don't know. Now I want to know. Maybe. I'm sure he can. Surely he learned in his little New York suburb, Jamaica Estates, or wherever he grew up? I don't know. But it was so classic the way it was handled. I did think my first reaction being like, is this AI? Because that's going to have to be our first instinct moving forward.

Leslie Foss [00:12:35] The Pope and the coat got me.

Sarah [00:12:37] It got me. I thought it was wearing Balenciaga for sure.

Leslie Foss [00:12:40] And that's when for me I was like, oh, you got to check this stuff.

Sarah [00:12:44] You got to really check. But that's what we're answering here. We're answering the AI election, but it seems to have already died down. It'll continue to be used for people who were never going to vote for him anyway.

Leslie Foss [00:12:54] Right.

Sarah [00:12:55] I'm really tired of the NPRs and the, oh, well, they don't think he's mentally fit. Why would you poll on that? Because people are experts? Because they've had a conversation with him? Because their doctors? Don't ask those questions and then run them as headlines for weeks on end. It really bothers me.

Leslie Foss [00:13:10] Yeah. There's no evidence that anyone would objectively be able to see for his mental fitness for the job. There's no reason to assume that. But if you ask people, they'll say yes because they don't like him or whatever.

Sarah [00:13:25] Or you're actually just polling their attitudes about age. So just ask that. You know what I mean? Just ask your attitudes and understandings and stereotypes about age. I'll tell you what, I've been listening to Julia Louis-Dreyfus' new podcast Wiser Than Me. Have you been listening to it?

Leslie Foss [00:13:38] No, I haven't.

Sarah [00:13:42] It is excellent. She starts out with Jane Fonda, who's 84. Sharp as a damn whip. Like just on it. So interesting to hear her talk about you have to have your health when you get into your eighties. You can continue to function and work and do all the things you want to do, but you have to have your health, you have to have muscle strength, you have to have flexibility. And so, I don't really mind sort of an expanded conversation around that to say, okay, well, I'm asking you to trust me past when we've trusted other presidents, but here's what I'm presenting to you as evidence that I have prioritized my health like that. That's why I like to see him ride a bicycle. You know what I mean? Like, show me that you're doing the things like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and those planks, although she still should have retired.

Leslie Foss [00:14:23] Obviously.

Sarah [00:14:24] Obviously. But, to me, if you want to have a conversation about age and what it requires to continue to do this job past a certain point, that's fine. But just to pull people blindly and say you have concerns, like you said, what are we going to do about it? How is that helpful?

Leslie Foss [00:14:39] I will say we did the same to Trump, right? Like when people were, like, he's losing his vocabulary and he seems to not be able to drink out of a cup of water. We did make some assumptions also about his mental acuity or even physical state. So I guess it's going to come with the territory that people are always going to be looking for something, political opponents will always be looking for something, but the age just gives everyone an easy target.

Sarah [00:15:07] Yeah, and he doesn't give them a lot of other easy targets. That's the thing. They got to have something.

Leslie Foss [00:15:11] He is so quick on his feet mentally. I mean, like when he gets interrupted. Remember recently that little kid was crying at one of his press conferences or something. He was just so quick with the retorts, with the lines. You can't say that he's just reading stuff. He's quick to pivot.

Sarah [00:15:33] Or the State of the Union. He was basically debating with them through that. That's when I really like [inaudible]. I was like, okay, you went to Ukraine, you did the State of the Union. I am adequately appeased. My concerns have been addressed. Thank you so much. Moving on. All right, last thing. Chick-fil-A's woke. Have you heard?

Leslie Foss [00:15:53] I have heard that it is no longer the Lord's chicken.

Sarah [00:15:56] No longer the Lord's chicken.

Leslie Foss [00:15:58] No longer the Lord's chicken.

Sarah [00:16:01] What a journey Chick-fil-A has been on from being arguably and objectively anti-LGBTQ. And because the founders are incredibly evangelical, and so then we were supposed to hate them because of that. But now we find out that for the past three years-- this is not a new development.

Leslie Foss [00:16:22] Not new.

Sarah [00:16:23] That they have had a vice president of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Hot topic. Poor Eric McReynolds. I just feel bad for him. I feel bad for all the Eric McReynolds out there because now they're going to be getting some weird Twitter alerts and all kinds of stuff. But somebody found out that they have a vice president of diversity, equity, and inclusion and now they are woke. And we are (and by we I mean hard core conservatives) supposed to be boycotting Chick-fil-A.

Leslie Foss [00:16:51] And it's like, wow, I guess we'll meet each other on the picket lines and maybe sparks will fly. You know, who knows what will happen.

Sarah [00:17:00] What will we work out? What will we work out when we're all there together? Do you eat at Chick-Fil-A? Because I do. I absolutely eat their chicken.

Leslie Foss [00:17:06] Yes. They make a good chicken sandwich. We don't eat there a lot, but it is right down the street from us.

Sarah [00:17:11] Chick-Fil-A really prioritizes families with small children. I probably don't eat there as much as I used to, but when my kids were little, the playground was always clean. You had open doors for you if you had a stroller. It's like totally designed if you have little kids to make your life as easy as possible. It's like the Disney of fast food. And I didn't eat there for a long time when it really first came out and they were taking a lot of heat for it. I didn't eat at Chick-Fil-A for a long time. But then when it felt like they sort of addressed some of the concerns, I can't go back and make Cathy a different person. That's not available to me. And I do think that if you own a massive corporation, you can prioritize where you want to give your money and then I can prioritize how often I want to eat at your restaurant as a result. I just think it has to be a little bit of a give and take. And so, I don't know. I eat there sometimes. I don't eat there a lot. I don't boycott it fully. I did for a while along with everyone else. Now that it's woke and we've got a whole other level, I've been on a long journey with Chick-fil-A politically.

Leslie Foss [00:18:10] Yeah. Now, I don't know. Am I supposed to go there? Am I supposed to not go there? Because I did the same thing. There was a while when it was like very obvious what they were giving money to, that it felt like I didn't want to give them money. And then it seemed that they stopped at least those big money obvious practices of giving to these anti-gay groups.

Sarah [00:18:31] Well, I think there was a shift when they expanded to colleges. They did a whole strategy of going to college campuses. Understandably, lots of money to be made there. And it felt like when that happened, they were like, oh, yeah, we're going to [inaudible] some of this back if we want to be okay on college campuses.

Leslie Foss [00:18:47] Obviously, you can be like, okay, well, they stopped. But you don't know, you can't trace the money, you don't know what these people give to or whatever or what they believe. And it's not really for us to know what everybody who's involved in a corporation or the owners of a corporation are doing in their own lives. It was more like maybe they'll be giving the Chick-Fil-A money specifically, but whatever it was, it felt like it had kind of died down. And so then it was like, it's fine. But then I'm sure you read the statement of what this office entails of their diversity thing. It's just the most boilerplate milquetoast language of like, how could anyone read that and be opposed to it? They didn't say anything. It said, people, work here. That's good.

Sarah [00:19:35] We care about them.

Leslie Foss [00:19:37] Yeah.

Sarah [00:19:38] Well, my dad, he found out about this story while he was at my house. Relatives came over for barbecue and they're all conservative and they were talking about it, and he was like, why don't these corporations-- because the other thing that came out around this time is that Target pulled some pride displays out of concern for the safety of their employees and some southern states because their pride presence is usually really strong because I think Target sort of adopted the where who the progressives like stance good for them whatever. And so he was like, why do corporations do this? It's just so dumb. And I said, because they have to get employees. And that's what employees look for, Dad. What do you want them to do? Just be like, "Forget it. We don't need any employees." Like, I don't understand. There's a hiring crunch. This is what corporations have to do to recruit. To me, a lot of their posturing, a lot of what they do has less to do with the consumers and more to do with their posture as an employer and for recruitment.

Leslie Foss [00:20:36] Would they want them to say in their employee handbook, "We actively discriminate against this list of people?" It feels like that's what they would have to say to make it not woke.

Sarah [00:20:49] And they couldn't do it. How would that exactly work?

Leslie Foss [00:20:53] Yea. It is very confusing to me. I do think that corporations are in this interesting spot. Same thing, Disney, Target, Bud Light, all of them, is they kind of end up in this situation where they're figure out who they fear more. This has been going on back and forth where a segment of the population pushes a corporation to do something because generally corporations move faster and make more of an impact than government in a lot of these ways with how much money they spend on their employees or what they mean to a community. So it feels like now these groups know that and they target these corporations, and then the corporations have to decide, well, we either make this group mad or we make this group mad. And you can see now that they kind of come down on both sides. Sometimes they'll make one move, make that group mad, and then the other group gets madder and then they'll switch. It is a very interesting position for corporations to be. What are they supposed to do?

Sarah [00:21:53] Does anybody feel like anything they're doing is authentic? I think the reason a company like Patagonia stays at the top of those rankings is because it actually does feel authentic, because they've been that way from the beginning. Their values are clearly articulated through the product itself. To me, that's what I really want to see. Like, are you prioritizing not their marketing, but through the actual formulation of your product, these certain values? And how exactly would Chick-fil-A do that? I think hiring. To me, my concern is always around companies like that are less where the founders give their money and more any sort of outward discrimination. Like Cracker Barrel had a real problem for a while, so big that now if you go to a Cracker Barrel, there's a big sign on the door that says we do not discriminate in our hiring.

Leslie Foss [00:22:38] Any more.

Sarah [00:22:40] We did for a while. We really turned it around. And I think my concerns for Chick-Fil-A were a time where are they doing this in a way that discriminates in hiring? Because that's a whole other ball of wax. But anecdotally, in my own life, I know gay people who work at Chick-fil-A and who advance up the ranks of Chick-fil-A. And so, to me, that's probably where I became less concerned because I really do feel like we need to have a new orientation conversation understanding because we throw around the word boycott. Boycott to me is an organized action with a goal in mind. That's what we don't have in all of these corporate conversations. What is your goal? Do you want Truett Cathy to sell his share of Chick-fil-A? If that's it, that's fine. Articulate that and say we will boycott. I have a little more respect for the ones that are like, "We're going to boycott you until you stop advertising on Tucker Carlson." I just think that it needs to be an articulated goal so that we all know what we're doing instead of just it feels a little performative. We're just trying to show you that we're mad. Okay, cool. Fine. You can do what you want, but like what's the point besides just another culture war, another online expression of this? Like, what are we doing then?

Leslie Foss [00:23:51] Especially when people are boycotting by destroying products. There was the cure eggs, where they were all throwing their cure eggs around, and then they're burning their Nike's. And then now they're rolling over hundreds of cans of Bud Light on like a forklift or whatever. Their message is you've lost us as a customer. So what's the incentive to change to get them back? They are saying we're done with you. Not just a boycott. We're breaking up. Our relationship is over with you. And so we're wrecking everything that we have.

Sarah [00:24:25] And what a messed up thing. You didn't have a relationship with them to begin with.

Leslie Foss [00:24:28] So it is straight. You're right. We're not going to buy a Bud Light until you end this partnership, this sponsorship or whatever, until you don't do any more trans related content or something like that. But it wasn't that. It was just, we're done with you. And so is that what they're also saying to Chick-fil-A? It's not we'll come back if you eliminate diversity language from your corporation. It's just we're boycotting you now. The Lord has pulled his blessing of your chicken. Done.

Sarah [00:25:02] There was a great headline that was like, has woke jumped the shark with the Chick-Fil-A boycott? And I was like, please let it be so. Because that's the thing. What are you mad about? Can you tell me what you're mad about? Any articulation of diversity as a goal, any articulation of equity as a concern or inclusion as a value we're done? That means that we're enemies. Does that sound right to you? And maybe it does. I guess depending on how racist you are. Yeah, maybe that is the goal. It is so bizarre to me that just the presence of a DEI officer would be enough. But I think that it has to be. The woke to keep people's attention and to keep them fearful. The stakes have to keep elevating. It can't just be that, oh well, you include in a Disney online video the mention of transgender care. It has to be like you have anybody at all because you got to keep pushing and you got to have something. It was so shocking to me when my dad was here, how often he could articulate, well, did you see this or did you see that? Well did you see that Adidas had a trans person in a women's bathing suit. I mean, it was just like one thing after the other. And my answer was always no. No, I haven't seen that. But there is an entire industry and this person who tweeted this I'd never heard of, but now everybody has, he elevated his platform by digging, digging, digging and finding something. A new woke thing we can all be mad about. Because you have to feed that beast. It can't be the same thing. The woke is an ever hungry beast.

Leslie Foss [00:26:35] And it's an easy content creation moneymaking device for this-- is he a TikToker or blogger or whatever.

Sarah [00:26:44] I don't know. I didn't recognize him, but now I do.

Leslie Foss [00:26:48] But you're right. They are coming up with new stuff all the time. And so for these people who consume a lot of conservative media, they feel like it's happening all the time. So they think, oh, it's out of control. It's happening everywhere all the time, this and this and this. And it's like it's not coming in to our news feeds. It's actually not. We're not living in the same. You're inundated with it, so you feel like it's coming for you. It's attacking. So there always has to be something new, but the rest of us are like, I don't know. Seems fine.

Sarah [00:27:22] Yeah, I don't care. And I told my dad, like, "Do you care what Adidas does about bathing suites? Do you think that is really important?" Like you're concerned about-- what we are going to talk about in our next segment-- the fact that State Farm is not issuing new insurance applications for the state of California. That seems relevant. That seems something we both saw in our news cycles that actually has impact. Don't you think that's what we should be talking about and that's what we should be focusing on and not the model of an Adidas swimsuit? I don't know.

Leslie Foss [00:27:55] Right. Neither side really loves corporations. So it's so funny to be like this corporation has wronged me. I was like, it's wronged everyone.

Sarah [00:28:05] Everybody. All the time.

Leslie Foss [00:28:07] All the time. Look at all of the business practices of any company that you think is great. For whatever reason, they're doing something that you don't like. They have to be because they're either hurting their employees in some way. They're sending jobs abroad in some way. They're not going to do everything that you want because they're in it to make money. They're not in it to please you. It's strange to have allegiances to corporations anyway, to be like we were an Adidas family and now we're a Puma family because they're not woke. Okay.

Sarah [00:28:42] You know what family I am? Whatever I can get on selling the right size for my kid at that moment in the smallest amount of time.

Leslie Foss [00:28:47] That's what I'm loyal to. So it's just funny. Don't hit your wagon to any of these corporations. They will all disappoint you because they are there to make money. Even the target one that you mentioned because they pulled some of their Pride merch and unfortunately the things that they pulled were not the things that were made in-house by Target. They were the things that were made by small business queer businesses that then they got these big brand deals where they were going to get their products out, make a bunch of money and all this stuff, and then they're the ones who got hurt in this, not Target. They are looking at what to pull. It's everything. They're there to make money.

Sarah [00:29:27] Yeah. There's no consistency if that's what you're looking for. You're not going to find it. And so I think, yeah, you can be mad all the time on either side. I have progressive friends that are mad at somebody all the time. I will get emails, people mad at me because I said I go to Chick-Fil-A. I got them last time I talked about Chick-fil-A. I promise you I'll get them this time as well. I'd rather be mad about people in power. And it's not that I don't think corporations have power, but unless I want to be an activist shareholder, I don't have a lot of power inside that situation. Outside of, like I said, an organized boycott with a stated goal, which I'm here for, I'm not mad at that strategy. I just think it started to bleed in a way that removes any impact or power from that strategy. And that's what I'm concerned about. All right. Next up, are you ready to talk about California ? It's a little state with not a lot going on. So I think we should be able to cover it really quickly.

Leslie Foss [00:30:19] Okay, good. Can we first start off with why is it raining here? It's June. Can somebody explain that to me?

Sarah [00:30:27] You understand that this is what my husband says is the problem with California, is that you never have to deal with bad weather. It's what makes you soft.

Leslie Foss [00:30:34] Yeah. Oh, we're so soft. Oh, baby soft. Oh, my goodness.

Sarah [00:30:38] You're baby soft.

Leslie Foss [00:30:39] Wrap me up in a swaddle. I just can't.

Sarah [00:30:40] You can't handle anything except for earthquakes and wildfires.

Leslie Foss [00:30:42] Yeah, those don't bother us. Totally fine.

Sarah [00:30:45] All right. Up next, we're talking about California. Leslie, your guest hosting on the show. Well, The New York Times just put out a special California edition of The New York Times magazine, which is weird. New York Times [inaudible] on a California edition. But listen, it's relevant. It's the biggest, most populous state in the nation. What are they saying in that article? Texas is about 9 million people behind you?.

Leslie Foss [00:31:18] That's right.

Sarah [00:31:18] So even with some demographic changes, we do see people leaving California. It's still going to be a while till they catch up.

Leslie Foss [00:31:23] It's still going to be a while. Speaking on behalf of California, it's okay with us when people leave. It's fine. Nobody's mad about it. People are like, "Wow, everybody is leaving." It's like, yeah, good. Bye.

Sarah [00:31:36] Well, they are mad about it here. Let me just tell you.

Leslie Foss [00:31:38] Oh, they're mad about it in Texas, in Tennessee.

Sarah [00:31:40] Idaho.

Leslie Foss [00:31:41] In Colorado. I've heard about it.

Sarah [00:31:44] We even get some Californians here. We had our local property evaluation and some of the surrounding counties talking about how Californians are coming and buying all the land. And it is impactful because it drives up the property values, because Californians are so messed up. They've been so brainwashed over what is actually affordable real estate over the decades that they come to a place with affordable real estate and they will pay twice as much what anybody locally would pay because it's still so much cheaper than anything in California.

Leslie Foss [00:32:11] Correct. Yes. Sometimes you tell me the house prices on your street and I cry and I cry. It is wild. House prices are insane. So I do understand people cashing in and moving out to get something bigger. Get a basement. We don't have those here. It seems so exciting to have a basement.

Sarah [00:32:33] Now, tell us your California bona fides.

Leslie Foss [00:32:37] Let's see. I grew up in Northern California in a town called Vacaville, and we lived in a valley. It was very hot. We were there when Gentex started, so we were kind of in a little bit of the tech boom. Our population growth doubled during the time that I lived there.

Sarah [00:32:51] Wow!

Leslie Foss [00:32:53] I loved it. And then I went to college at UC San Diego. So then I experienced Southern California and then after law school where I met my husband and moved to Orange County, the place that I was most scared of in all of California.

Sarah [00:33:09] So the only time you lived out of California is those years you were in law school in D.C.?

Leslie Foss [00:33:14] I was born in Arkansas and then moved to California when I was five.

Sarah [00:33:18] So, yeah, lots of California time. Listen, here's the truth. Yes, I am from Paducah. We all know that, eighth generation Kentuckian. But I did spend every summer of my youth in California first and Northern California and Fremont, where my dad lived and I wish he'd stayed, and then in Southern California, in Bakersfield.

Leslie Foss [00:33:38] We do not count that as part of Southern California.

Sarah [00:33:40] What do we call it? What do you call Bakersfield?

Leslie Foss [00:33:43] Inland.

Sarah [00:33:45] Okay. Yeah, the Inland Empire. Okay, that's fair.

Leslie Foss [00:33:47] Which is an insult, just so you know.

Sarah [00:33:49] Yeah, I know that.

Leslie Foss [00:33:50] No offense to people in Bakersfield.

Sarah [00:33:52] Well, it's so funny when I meet people and I'm like, my dad lives in Bakersfield and they're trying to be nice and polite. They'll go, "Oh, yeah, Bakersfield?" I'm like, I don't like it. It's awful. Then they're like, oh, God, it's so terrible. It's just really hot.

Leslie Foss [00:34:05] It's really hot.

Sarah [00:34:06] And the air quality is terrible and it has terrible sprawl. It's also where Kevin McCarthy is from. But anyway, so I'm not a complete outsider. I do have some many, many experiences inside the great state of California. And so, I do have this sort of complicated relationship with the state where I'm like, I probably know just enough to be really prejudicial, I think is probably a good description of my relationship with California. Although, it has gotten better in my adult life. The more I've traveled in California as an adult and I have you and my friend Dave and Caroline who show me a different side of California, the better it gets. I will say that.

Leslie Foss [00:34:46] Yeah, we like it. It is very expensive here.

Sarah [00:34:51] So expensive.

Leslie Foss [00:34:52] So expensive. And it's a very difficult state to manage. And everyone always complains, no matter who's in charge, about the management of it. And at some point it's just too big to be a state. It is the fifth largest economy in the world. It used to be six. I think we were right behind France. It's just enormously challenging to manage, especially the size and the population and all of the different infrastructure issues that we have with water, with travel, with everything. It's really tricky. And the cost of living crisis. It's a tough job. So that's what a lot of our challenges are, is that we are so big, we're limited in what we can do. We don't have a lot of representation for the size that we are.

Sarah [00:35:50] Even in your local politics, I think you probably need way more representatives at the state level. Cities like Los Angeles County have way too small of city councils and staff for the size of the population. The article in the New York Times about the California effect, which is because California is so huge when they pass regulation at a state level, corporations are basically like, well, this is our new national standard because we're not going to create two different products, be it tailpipes or pajamas. We all get those big old warning tags on our pajamas thanks to California, our kids pajamas, the flammability thing, like we're not going to do two different versions. So we'll just have to do what California wants us to do. And they start with this representative who was being encouraged to run for Barbara Lee seat when she said she was running for the Senate and she was like, well, why would I do that? I have more power passing this legislation in the state House in California than to go to a gridlocked Washington, DC. I think the problem with that is that California is basically a one party state, right?

Leslie Foss [00:36:48] Yes.

Sarah [00:36:49] Republicans have no real control. And I think when you're talking about the world's fifth largest economy in the same way, I would issue the same critique of Japan, when you don't have any real conflict, you get to policies that seem like they make sense but have unintended consequences. One of the big California effect is environmental regulation. They led the way on that. Hugely important, improve the air quality of Los Angeles. But also a lot of those environmental regulations makes it extraordinarily difficult to build, which is how you get in a housing crisis where you have a ballooning population and not enough housing for everybody. It's not that I think if there had been a more powerful Republican Party that they would be like this could lead to a housing crisis. But I do think that there's some give and take that does lead to better policy outcomes a lot of the time.

Leslie Foss [00:37:35] Yeah, it's interesting. It is true that there is a supermajority. It was an interesting time when Schwarzenegger was governor because he was a Republican and I was very nervous about him being governor. And he got a lot done again, because he wasn't--

Sarah [00:37:55] He was like a culture warrior.

Leslie Foss [00:37:57] Yeah, it was really interesting. And because he was also big on the environmental regulations as well. And so it is tricky when you're setting the standards for your state because it is right for your state and they exceed a federal mandate for emissions or anything else. And then everyone in the country goes along with it because that will then set the new standard and it may push people too fast, too far in states who can't keep up because they don't have the type of industry that we have here. So it is an interesting push and pull that I thought that article was so interesting because I don't normally think about so much about how California affects other states. And it was interesting to hear about how so much of what we do here sets policy in other states and that now there's pushback from other states to try and do the same thing and set policy for us, which I was like, no, thank you. And I'm like, that must be how they feel.

Sarah [00:39:00] Yeah, exactly. Well, and that's another thing. I don't think it leads to good policy, the posture that Gavin Newsom has. In the same way, I don't think it leads to good policy the posture that Ron DeSantis or Greg Abbott has. When you're mad about a headline and you're like, I'll show them. I'm like, Don't do that. Your obligation is to the people of California. Don't fight these battles in this way to kick Walgreens out. Because in the same way, I don't think that's a great posture like the sort of boycotting and the corporate cultural wars as individuals. I certainly don't think it's a great posture as the governor of California. When I read that article and I really like Gavin Newsom, I don't have a huge issue with him, but I'm like, dude. I kind of want to set him aside and be like, you have massive problems. Do not spend mental energy trying to get back at Greg Abbott. Like, don't do that. That's a bad use of your time. You're running a huge economy and I think he is good at his job. The most impressed I was with him was when you were having the really bad energy crisis and there were no rolling blackouts. They figured out a system where they're like, everybody pitch in. This is what we're doing, this is what we're working for. And it worked. And they did it and they rode it out. And I was incredibly impressed. And I'm watching the way they're managing this influx of water to try to deal with water usage later. I think all of that, the bureaucracy of California's management of just the natural resources and the natural disasters is very good. And I'm like, focus on that, friend. Do not get up in arms about Greg Abbott. Like, just don't. That's not helpful.

Leslie Foss [00:40:31] Don't. Unless the thing is sometimes he will respond in a way that we really like because it is really tricky when these other states, Texas or Florida, are trying to do something that's going to change for us in California. And we do want him to respond. And I agree he does seem really fixated on DeSantis and he calls him, oh, that guy in Florida. It feels like they're trying to have some sort of like a WWF governor battle. I don't care about that. But I don't want Texas to write our textbooks for us. And I don't want Florida to hurt our Disney economy here by the fight that they're in there. Stuff like that. So it's a fine line. And again, it's too big of a job for a governor to do. And he does have to prioritize where he spends his time and energy.

Sarah [00:41:28] Well, and it's so frustrating, though, because we are the United States of America-- not to get super cheesy. And I kind of want to say and hopefully there are bureaucrats below the surface of these like cultural political fights that are talking to each other. Because what you are now facing in California, which is State Farm saying we will not be issuing any new applications for homeowner's insurance because of climate, because of the cost of construction XYZ has already happened to Florida and they're trying to figure that out. And there's a part of me that's like, can we all just come together? Because I think the reality, we say all the time, if you want to know what's going to happen, look at the state of California, that they're the future of legislation, they're the future of policy. But this is the future of the climate crisis, is it's just going to be unaffordable. It's going to become unaffordable to deal with rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding, just continued massive government bailouts. That's what's happened in Florida. Basically, their government backed-- supposed to be sort of like the [inaudible] of home insurance is just what everybody's using now. And I would think that California is probably already on that path and going to continue on that path. So is that what we're going to do? Because I would like the decision makers facing these situations in Florida and California to put their heads together and say, what does this mean? How are we going to move forward? What ideas do we have? Instead of fighting over whatever "controversy" has got the headlines this week.

Leslie Foss [00:42:54] The insurance thing, I do think Florida and California are in a unique position on these coastal edges with expensive property of this next version of the climate change battle, which is these events keep happening and they keep destroying homes. And those homes are very, very expensive. So how do we ensure them? How does it make sense for the insurance companies to continue spending money on them? It is something that we have got to figure out. The two of them could maybe get together. Can I mention one other thing that Florida and California have in common? They both want year round Daylight Savings Time.

Sarah [00:43:35] Oh my God, you did it.

Leslie Foss [00:43:37] I did it.

Sarah [00:43:37] . I'm so happy for you.

Leslie Foss [00:43:40] So we have so much in common. We could have a little meeting to talk about that. Talk about climate change.

Sarah [00:43:47] I'm happy because you have fully indoctrinated me for two populous powerful states like Florida and California also that share the distinction that I would live in neither of those states for love nor money because I like winter like a normal person.

Leslie Foss [00:44:03] I said it's raining here. That's winter.

Sarah [00:44:05] No. What temperature is it outside?

Leslie Foss [00:44:08] I had to wear a sweatshirt. See..

Sarah [00:44:10] No, that doesn't count. To get together and just bully the rest of us into-- so I guess they both want to end Daylight Savings Time. Or do they want to go to permanent daylight savings?

Leslie Foss [00:44:19] Permanent. Summertime.

Sarah [00:44:19] Okay. That's not true. I really don't care. I just want to stop switching.

Leslie Foss [00:44:22] Hence the time change. Yes.

Sarah [00:44:24] I don't care whatever they want to bully the rest of us into doing. As long as there is no more changing, I'm fine with that because, again, you have fully indoctrinated me.

Leslie Foss [00:44:32] That's right. What a win for me.

Sarah [00:44:34] I'm so proud of you. Now, we started this conversation at the beginning of the podcast talking about pop falling down. So I don't want to end this conversation about California without talking about another aging representative, Senator Dianne Feinstein, who I believe is 89. Is that right?

Leslie Foss [00:44:53] I don't know. She probably doesn't know.

Sarah [00:44:55] Oh, it's so bad. It's so bad. What bothers me the most about the situation is she has come back to the Senate. She looks so frail. She does not seem to understand what is happening when people talk to her. I'm like, where are the people that love this woman to say, no, we're not going to do this anymore. We have to stop. I understand that the senatorship is tied up in her identity, and here's what I wanted to ask you about. I love Hillary. I love Nancy Pelosi, too. And they've both been like very defensive of her and saying we wouldn't do this to a man. And I kind of want to say but that's not the point. We should also do it to men. Like Strom Thurmond shouldn't be in the Senate.

Leslie Foss [00:45:35] He shouldn't have been there. That's exactly what I was going to say.

Sarah [00:45:38] He was over 100 years old. They should not die in the office outside tragic circumstances. Ruth Bader Ginsburg should have retired. The issue is not like, oh, well, a woman should be able to do this too. No, the issue is nobody should be. This is not a good scene for anybody. People deserve to be fully represented. And I don't think the state of California is being fully represented right now.

Leslie Foss [00:45:57] I will again speak on behalf of us and say, no, we're not. She is not capable of doing the job. It's a humongous job for our population. And to have one senator who needs to be-- I mean, I felt terrible when I saw her being wheeled in.

Sarah [00:46:16] She looks so frail.

Leslie Foss [00:46:18] Just from a human perspective, I want her to be home and recovering and to understand that they really needed her there to make those votes for the judges. And yeah, it's the same thing. Why isn't anyone in her family saying, "I think this is the best thing to do for her, is to go out on a high note. Let's just call it here. Let's say it's time for her to rest and to revel in all of the accomplishments she's had over her very long and wonderful career." It was frustrating to me to then see a feminist spin on it that didn't ring super true to me. I didn't think that it was because she was a woman. I thought it was because she can't answer questions when people ask her. And that's been going on for years now where people have said she's confused, she doesn't know what meeting she's in. She didn't seem to remember a conversation that we had. And having had a grandmother go through dementia, it is heartbreaking. It's so difficult. I don't know that that's what she has. I'm just saying it was a very difficult thing for the family to go through. I just don't know why you would want to continue having her go through that in a public way.

Sarah [00:47:33] Well, I think that's what's so hard, though. It's like you can't have a power of attorney to have someone resign their senatorship. You know what I mean? I think we've gotten to a situation where and I think this is probably what happens a lot of time, I don't know if she has the capacity to understand and agree to resigning. That's the problem. It's like now we have a point of no return where you could argue she does not have the capacity to resign, which is then you're trapped because she also doesn't have the capacity to do the job. That's a really terrible situation. I know what happened with a senator from Mississippi a couple of years ago where there was lots and lots of rumors and write ups and talk about his capacity and could he do the job. And so I would not say that gender plays no role. Of course it does, because you can't cordon that off in any real meaningful way. So of course it influences. But again, to me, the feminist solution is not how dare you? It's, well, let's apply the standard in a fair way, because if men do it then nobody needs to do it. The feminist solution is not to welcome women into the problematic behavior of men.

Leslie Foss [00:48:39] True? Yes. I am excited for the election campaign to see who will run for her.

Sarah [00:48:48] It's going to be a hot primary. It's already hot. It's already got a lot of people involved.

Leslie Foss [00:48:51] They redistricted our area and Katie Porter is now our representative. We took her away from some of our friends who live in the next town over and they were very mad and we were so excited. And I was like, this will be short lived. But it's exciting for now.

Sarah [00:49:08] So she's running. Adam Schiff is running. Barbara Lee is running. Is that all right now? Those three?

Leslie Foss [00:49:13] I think so.

Sarah [00:49:14] That won't be the end. There will be some more announcements, I would imagine, coming soon. So if you had to vote today, who would you vote for?

Leslie Foss [00:49:20] Katie Porter. I really like Katie Porter, and I would love to see her on bigger committees. She's so good at that role of oversight. She drives a minivan with a little oversight license plate. I just really like her. We don't have favorite politicians, but I would trust her in that seat more than-- I like Adam Schiff too and I like Barbara Lee.

Sarah [00:49:46] You got an embarrassment of riches, I think, in this primary. So you'll be fine. You have indoctrinated me into Daylight Saving Time, but I don't think I've convinced you to move to Paducah. So I'm assuming you're going to stay in California.

Leslie Foss [00:49:57] For now, until that big "money" starts rolling in.

Sarah [00:50:01] Okay.

Leslie Foss [00:50:02] You know, you tell that I could be bought [inaudible]. But for now, even with the rain, I'll stay here.

Sarah [00:50:20] All right, Leslie, Outside Politics today, we're going to talk about television.

Leslie Foss [00:50:25] Let's do it.

Sarah [00:50:26] And the ways you and I align and diverge. They're pretty extremes, I feel like the differences between our viewing habits. So let's tackle this. Tell us your favorite shows from last year. We're going to do your favorite shows from last year?

Leslie Foss [00:50:38] I think this is last year or this year, I don't know. I'll tell you my general vibe.

Sarah [00:50:41] Yeah, your general vibe.

Leslie Foss [00:50:42] I can't watch anything sad, so I like to watch--

Sarah [00:50:46] I am rolling my eyes and shaking my head right now.

Leslie Foss [00:50:49] I like comedies and I like violent shows.

Sarah [00:50:53] I don't understand that. Violence is sad. That doesn't make any sense.

Leslie Foss [00:50:57] No. I cannot watch a show where a child or an animal is in emotional or in physical danger. That is my number one criteria, which eliminates a lot of things.

Sarah [00:51:07] I would like to highly advise you skip the new Guardians of the Galaxy.

Leslie Foss [00:51:11] I saw it. It wrecked me.

Sarah [00:51:15] Spoiler alert. I don't know if this is necessary spoiler alert. When that little baby raccoon was just learning to articulate language and the first word he said was hurt, I have never had my heart break harder in a movie. Truly, I lost it. I wept.

Leslie Foss [00:51:32] I walked out of that theater--

Sarah [00:51:34] Because I was like how many animals would that be their first word they articulated was hurt.

Leslie Foss [00:51:37] It was brutal. In the theater, there were some things that happened and I was like, "Come on!" I curse you, James Gunn. I curse your name. I was destroyed. I was mad. I will never watch that movie again.

Sarah [00:51:56] Yeah, that ticks all your boxes. There are children and animals constantly being harmed.

Leslie Foss [00:52:00] That's what it was. First it was the all the animals. Then all the kids show up. And that's when I was like, you've got to be joking about now.

Sarah [00:52:10] Okay. So that's your main requirement.

Leslie Foss [00:52:12] Yes. I will watch Drama. So we both like Succession, obviously. I like creative shows with creative cursing in it. That's a key feature for me. And I like cozy mysteries. .

Sarah [00:52:27] Cozy mysteries.

Leslie Foss [00:52:28] I like murder, but that's not super serious. I assume you have a comfort show. Is there something that you watch over and over? You don't seem like you would.

Sarah [00:52:37] No.

Leslie Foss [00:52:38] I watch Psych over and over again. When I'm doing dishes that's the show that I put on on my little screen. Do you know that show now?

Sarah [00:52:47] Is that the one with Tony? What's his name?

Leslie Foss [00:52:50] No, that's Monk.

Sarah [00:52:51] Oh, right.

Leslie Foss [00:52:52] Dulé Hill.

Sarah [00:52:53] Oh, I do like him.

Leslie Foss [00:52:55] Yeah. It's like The Mentalist kind of. He pretends to be a psychic and they solve crimes.

Sarah [00:53:00] Okay. It's not that you like the murder, you like the solving.

Leslie Foss [00:53:04] Yeah. And it's funny.

Sarah [00:53:06] Okay.

Leslie Foss [00:53:07] So other shows that I like, we both like Andor.

Sarah [00:53:11] No, we don't.

Leslie Foss [00:53:12] Oh, okay. I loved Andor.

Sarah [00:53:16] I've never watched it.

Leslie Foss [00:53:16] Oh, you'll like it.

Sarah [00:53:16] My husband keeps telling me that, but I'm not a Star Wars person.

Leslie Foss [00:53:19] It's not Star Wars.

Sarah [00:53:21] I know. That's what he told me.

Leslie Foss [00:53:22] There's no Jedis, there's no lightsabers. It's political intrigue.

Sarah [00:53:27] It's cool. That's what he told me. Okay, I'll consider it. I will consider.

Leslie Foss [00:53:31] Now that Nicholas and I agree, you have to.

Sarah [00:53:33] Yes, that seems like a good one.

Leslie Foss [00:53:34] Yeah. Righteous Gemstones.

Sarah [00:53:38] Love. June 18th. Judy Gemstone. Forever.

Leslie Foss [00:53:42] Forever.

Sarah [00:53:43] And it's really succession hilariously enough. It's like they're fighting for control.

Leslie Foss [00:53:48] Yeah, it's Florida succession.

Sarah [00:53:49] There's just way more violence.

Leslie Foss [00:53:52] Yeah.

Sarah [00:53:53] And way more cursing, if that's even possible.

Leslie Foss [00:53:56] Creative cursing.

Sarah [00:53:57] And way more bad behavior- if that's even possible. And more sequence.

Leslie Foss [00:54:02] Yeah. Oh, dance numbers. A lot more dance numbers.

Sarah [00:54:04] Yes, yes, yes, yes. Clogging.

Leslie Foss [00:54:07] I like Peacemaker. And that's a DC show. A very strange tone. Very dark humor [inaudible] John Cena. Not sad, violent. Extremely violent and gore.

Sarah [00:54:19] I don't understand this disconnection between sad and violence because another show we align very closely on is The Great.

Leslie Foss [00:54:28] I love The Great.

Sarah [00:54:29] That show is sad. That show makes me cry.

Leslie Foss [00:54:32] I do not find it sad. What's sad?

Sarah [00:54:35] Well, you haven't finished this season yet.

Leslie Foss [00:54:35] Oh, I haven't finished. I haven't finished yet. That's right.

Sarah [00:54:37] But I found the previous season sad when her first boyfriend Leo died. Brokenhearted. So sad for her.

Leslie Foss [00:54:43] So sad, but not really. I don't mind.

Sarah [00:54:47] It's so detached. Maybe it's that they don't seem real.

Leslie Foss [00:54:50] Yeah.

Sarah [00:54:51] You know what I mean? Like, they're incredible performances. Very good. The actors on that show are great. No pun intended. The costuming, fantastic. The cursing, off the charts. Lots of violence. And you get to use the word huzza, which it's like roll tide. That's how they use it. They use it for everything. Huzza!

Leslie Foss [00:55:08] I always recommend it to people who like Bridgerton. If you like Bridgerton but want it to be darker, better, and sexier and with more cussing, then watch The Great. Yeah, it's better.

Sarah [00:55:21] Now, let's talk about where we really diverge.

Leslie Foss [00:55:23] Okay. Reality TV. Well, let me ask you, did you watch Welcome to Wrexham.

Sarah [00:55:30] No, I don't even know what that is.

Leslie Foss [00:55:32] What do you mean you don't know what that is? [Crosstalk] Rob McElhenney bought a soccer team. Spin off show about that. Yes.

Sarah [00:55:41] They made a show about that?

Leslie Foss [00:55:41] Yes.

Sarah [00:55:41] I didn't know about that.

Leslie Foss [00:55:42] It's so good. It's excellent.

Sarah [00:55:45] So it's like Ted Lasso reality show.

Leslie Foss [00:55:47] Yes. So it's a reality show. I can't believe you've never seen it. You have to watch that.

Sarah [00:55:52] I didn't know Ryan Reynolds had this depth. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Leslie Foss [00:55:55] He's great. You have to watch it.

Sarah [00:55:57] Okay. I'll add that to the list as well.

Leslie Foss [00:55:58] I'm gearing up to watch Love Island. It's coming out.

Sarah [00:56:02] No, why?

Leslie Foss [00:56:02] Because it's so good.

Sarah [00:56:04] Why do you watch these terrible reality dating shows.

Leslie Foss [00:56:07] I don't know.

Sarah [00:56:08] Help me understand, because you also watch The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.

Leslie Foss [00:56:11] Well, I stopped watching it this last season because it's so boring. Love Island is much better.

Sarah [00:56:19] I'd love to be offended but I think-- which I guess I am in like a big picture macro way. But mostly I just find them excruciatingly boring to watch.

Leslie Foss [00:56:27] Oh, you would hate Love Island because it's on every night. It's a British show. I mean, they have different versions, but the British one is the only one to watch. And it comes on every night of the week.

Sarah [00:56:42] How dare you demand that much of my time. How dare you? You know who can demand that much of my time? Oprah Winfrey. It's the only show I've ever watched on a weekday every day.

Leslie Foss [00:56:52] But it's so great. It's so trashy. Everyone's so stupid. I don't know why I watch it, but it's coming. It's coming for the summer. I'm excited.

Sarah [00:57:00] I don't know why I watch it, but I'm excited.

Leslie Foss [00:57:03] And we watch Survivor now. We started watching Survivor.

Sarah [00:57:05] Beth loves Survivor.

Leslie Foss [00:57:06] Yes. We're in like season 38 or something. We're not caught up to current, but we watched them all since the pandemic from season one, all the way through.

Sarah [00:57:15] Baby Jesus. I've only watched one season of Survivor that my friend's family member was on. It was the one Elisabeth Hasselbeck was on. That's the season I watched very, very early. And I liked it, but not enough to watch it again.

Leslie Foss [00:57:28] It also has so many episodes per season.

Sarah [00:57:32] Yeah, I'm too busy for the time reality television requires of me.

Leslie Foss [00:57:37] No, you're not too busy. Your brain doesn't operate that way.

Sarah [00:57:44] Now, the reality shows I've watched in the past that I no longer watch, really I stopped watching reality television when we canceled cable in 2011, which was pretty early in the game, because between 2011, up until maybe like the pandemic, a little bit before the pandemic, it was hard to watch that kind of stuff streaming. Like they didn't make it easy. Before the streaming wars, it was kind of hard. I missed Fixer Upper for that reason. I definitely missed The Bachelor and all that stuff and sort of just stopped watching all of it. I used to watch very regularly Intervention. So sad.

Leslie Foss [00:58:18] Oh my God. I would never watch that.

Sarah [00:58:22] Learned so much. Hoarders. Sad. Supernanny. I loved me some Supernanny.

Leslie Foss [00:58:31] I did watch Supernanny.

Sarah [00:58:34] And Wife Swap. I loved me some Wife Swap.

Leslie Foss [00:58:36] Brutal.

Sarah [00:58:37] I learned a lot about parenting from Supernanny. I also learned a lot of parenting from Jon and Kate Plus Eight, which I also watched.

Leslie Foss [00:58:44] Oh, yeah. You watch sad things?

Sarah [00:58:49] Yeah, I like a sad show. I want a show that makes me feel sad, bereft, really caught up in the complexity of human existence. That's what I'm looking for.

Leslie Foss [00:59:01] I'm looking to watch something while I'm scrolling on my phone and then maybe fall asleep on the couch.

Sarah [00:59:06] No, I also don't fall asleep on the couch. I hate that.

Leslie Foss [00:59:09] I hate it. I don't want to do it, but sometimes I'm like I'm just going to lean over here just for a second. And then I'm like, dang it!

Sarah [00:59:16] Now, Nicholas, always be snoring during my shows. I'm like, "Get up and go to bed like an adult. What are you doing?" So I got real Enneagram One energy around my TV viewing. Clearly.

Leslie Foss [00:59:24] You have Enneagram One energy around everything.

Sarah [00:59:27] That's true.

Leslie Foss [00:59:27] That's the vibe of a one.

Sarah [00:59:30] That's true. That's probably amazing at this point that you haven't called me Gunner [sp], which is my law school nickname, because I brought my Enneagram One energy..

Leslie Foss [00:59:38] I did before I turned this on. I said, "Taylor I'm getting on a call with Gunner so be quiet."

Sarah [00:59:43] I've been around people when she'll call me that, and they'll be like, who is she talking about? I'm like, me. The one nickname I ever had that stuck throughout my whole life was Gunner.

Leslie Foss [00:59:50] That's what you get for raising your hand so much.

Sarah [00:59:52] I brought that Enneagram One Energy to law school. I'm so glad you decided to be friends with me anyway.

Leslie Foss [00:59:56] That's right. Well, what choice did we have?

Sarah [00:59:58] We didn't. You didn't. I don't really give people a choice once I decide I want to be friends with them. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on Pantsuit Politics, friend.

Leslie Foss [01:00:06] It was a delight.

Sarah [01:00:08] We solved so much. We solved TV viewing. We solved the entire state of California.

Leslie Foss [01:00:13] It's a big problem and we solved it.

Sarah [01:00:15] And we did it.

Leslie Foss [01:00:16] We did it.

Sarah [01:00:17] And we solved wokeism.

Leslie Foss [01:00:21] We figured it out.

Sarah [01:00:23] A little bit of Congress at the beginning. We did it. Good job. Well, I will be back in your ears on Friday with the one and only Nicholas Holland. He's co-hosting with me on Friday. We got to talk about marriage because we have been married-- are you ready for this? Are you ready? 20 years.

Leslie Foss [01:00:41] Wow.

Sarah [01:00:43] 20 years. That's how long we've been married this summer. I was a child bride.

Leslie Foss [01:00:47] That's crazy. You were. But Taylor and I have been married 14 years, and it felt like you were married 20 years when we were in law school.

Sarah [01:00:55] I was. I was already an old married lady.

Leslie Foss [01:00:57] It was so crazy that you were married.

Sarah [01:00:59] Everybody's like, "What do you mean you're married?" I'm like, "What do you mean you're not? Everyone I went to college with is married."

Leslie Foss [01:01:03] Yeah. And five years later, we're all married anyway.

Sarah [01:01:06] There you go. Should've just caught up with me anyway. All right. Again, friendly reminder to subscribe to our newsletter. Please send us your perspectives on Pride Month, Juneteenth, the overturning of Roe v Wade. All this stuff we're going to talk about in the month of June. We love to hear from all you guys at Hello@pantsuitpolitics.com. And until Friday, keep it here on strong.

Beth [01:01:42] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.

Sarah [01:01:47] Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.

Beth [01:01:53] Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.

Executive Producers Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Helen Handley. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Molly Kohrs. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. Emily Neesley. Tawni Peterson. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Danny Ozment. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago.

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The California Effect with Leslie Foss

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