2025: A B*tch of a Year

How do you solve a problem like this yearrrrrr?

All together now to the tune of Maria: How do you solve a problem like this yearrrrr???

2025 was a bitch. On this episode, we tackle the cruelty of ICE and the horror of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and the unadulterated boldness of the Trump administration. We try to speak to the pain of federal employees and the heartbreak of the disasters that rocked Los Angeles and Texas. And still we got to the end of this episode and I realized I’d forgotten to speak to the undercurrent of racism and misogyny that seemed to infect everything this administration touched this year.

That’s a bitch of year when the sexism gets lost in the parade of horrors.

And yet…you will hear me be stubbornly protective of 2025 in this episode. Not just because Travis and Taylor got engaged (although that’s part of it). Not just because I personally had a good year (MAD SHOUT OUT TO LOOP FOR THAT ONE!) Not just because Democrats aren’t flopping around mouths agape like some massive bass pulled aboard a fishing boat.

It’s something more. Something I saw glimmer in the eyes of No Kings protesters. Something I saw surface in conversations about the East Wing. Something I saw reflected in polling and focus groups and (god save me) even social media posts.

Something I still see after this past - particularly violent - weekend.

It felt like people remembered what they were fighting for instead of just what they were fighting about.

And that’s why I’m still over here puzzling about 2025.

She is gentle, she is wild

She’s a riddle, she’s a child

She’s a headache

She’s an angel

She’s a YEARRRRRR

Topics Discussed

• What Happened in 2025: The Second Trump Administration

• Positive Stories from Around the World

• What Would We Tell Ourselves in January 2025

• Outside of Politics: Favorite Books of the Year

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Episode Resources

Pantsuit Politics Resources

• Spicy Live with Sarah and Beth: Thursday, December 18 at 12 noon (replay will be available)

• Give the Gift of Pantsuit Politics with our End of Year Premium Sale

Stories and News that Stuck with us in 2025

• Taylor Swift Gets Started On Her List Of Her Top Five Taylor Swift Songs (The Late Show with Stephen Colbert | YouTube)

• Ta-Nehisi Coates on Bridging Gaps vs. Drawing Lines - The New York Times

• The Big Beautiful Bill, The Epstein Files, and Flooding in Texas (Pantsuit Politics)

• 1000 Victims and No Accountability with Julie K Brown (Pantsuit Politics)

• Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger

• Celebrating our Grandmothers (The Nuanced Life by Pantsuit Politics)

• The Assassination of Charlie Kirk (Pantsuit Politics)

• White Smoke and a New Pope (Newsletter by Pantsuit Politics)

• Good News for King Charles (Good Morning by Pantsuit Politics)

• Good News for Portland and Chicago (Good Morning by Pantsuit Politics)

• Shutdown and Teardown (Pantsuit Politics)

• Good News for Felix (Good Morning by Pantsuit Politics)

• Year in Search (Google)

Our Favorite Reads of 2025

Sarah:

• War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy

• Wolf Hall by Hillary Mantel

• Simon Haisell’s Footnotes and Tangents (Substack)

• How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States by Daniel Immerwahr

Beth:

• Little Women by Louisa May Alcott

• Risky Business: Why Insurance Markets Fail and What to Do about It

Episode Transcript

Beth [00:00:00] Hi, it’s Beth. We always set aside this time of year for reflection episodes. We do that for a few reasons. We think they’re really important. We’re also able to record them on a more relaxed schedule and that lets our audio engineers and Alise and Maggie work with a little more ease than our usual production process allows. So you’re about to hear an episode that we recorded last week. Over the weekend there were horrifying attacks during an economics exam review at Brown University. During a meeting among security forces in Syria, and during a Hanukkah celebration in Sydney. The world lost so many people, old and young, people of many nationalities and backgrounds and experiences. Millions of people around the world are grieving right now. While there are still many unanswered questions in connection with these events, we know enough to mourn for the dead, pray for the injured, and lament the extremism at work in these attacks. I talk about all these stories, along with the U.S. Seizure of an oil tanker and Monday’s news brief published on Substack. Usually those episodes are behind a payroll, but we made this one free for anyone. We’ll put the link to watch that episode in the notes to this episode. You can also find it by going to pantsoupoliticsshow.com. The only way that we know how to keep moving forward is to keep listening and learning and loving each other the best that we can. So here is our offer today. Some reflections on 2025. Shared with love in our hearts for the world and for you.

Sarah [00:01:36] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth [00:01:38] This is Beth Silver. You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. We pride ourselves here on doing slow news. We try to think before we react. We try and recognize the line between the urgent and the important, and we try to make space for reflection, even when the present just grinds away at a frantic pace. So today we are going to make space for reflection. We’re going to think about 2025. What happened? What did we learn from it? What stands out when you gaze back over the year from mid-December. And then Outside of Politics, we’ll talk about our favorite books of the year.

Sarah [00:02:10] Yay! I just wanted to do that part.

Beth [00:02:15] That’s what everybody’s going to stay for, honestly. But we’re going to plot on.

Sarah [00:02:19] Actually, that’s not true. I do want to say I love an end of the year reflection. I love a list. I love to look back. That part of it, I have energy for that. I do want to be clear about that. It’s a tough year to look back on. All right, join us for Substack Live on Thursday. We’re going to talk about when we’re tired of talking about politics, like now, and we’re going to take your questions ask-us-anything style. You can send your questions to Hello@pantsuitpoliticshow.com. And if you’re looking for a last-minute gift for someone in your life, may we recommend a subscription to Pantsuit Politics Premium. Our premium membership is what we call our paid Substack subscription, where you get access to my Monday through Thursday News Brief, and on Thursday I do a Good News Brief. And you get Beth’s More to Say. Everything we make for our subscribers, who we call the Spice Cabinet, is built on the idea that we can have a healthier relationship with news and politics. And I’m sure that’s on many of your New Year’s Resolutions list for 2026. It’s giving new year, new you when it comes to the news itself. And we think what we do on Substack might just be the thing you’re looking for. We love when college students listen because they pipe up and tell us what it’s like to be them. And we love when retirees listen because they have a lot to offer. We love the men who listen. We love everybody. It’s an incredible community where I learn something new every day. And if you’re a millennial mom, like us, you will have lots and lots of friends and common ground to discuss in the comments. The people who come together there, largely because someone who already listens shared an episode or gifted a subscription, say, “I think you’ll like this. Trust me.” And it’s such a gift to the people in their lives. We really appreciate it. All the people in that community are such a gift. So gift a subscription this year.

Beth [00:04:09] Next up, let’s talk about the year that has been. Sarah, do you remember DOGE?

Sarah [00:04:27] No.

Beth [00:04:27] It’s been a long time.

Sarah [00:04:28] I blocked it.

Beth [00:04:29] That was this year.

Sarah [00:04:33] There’s a real time warp with 2025. In some ways, just like every year, I’m like, how could it possibly be December? Like, for sure, I feel that frenetic pace of time. And at the same time, when I think about the news and everything that’s happened this year, it does not feel fast. It feels big and wide. The way that DOGE doesn’t feel like just five minutes ago. DOGE feels like five years ago.

Beth [00:05:12] I think there’s a little bit of a break in the year for me. I think I really tried to be open-minded at the beginning of this administration and see what they were going to do, give it a second, be willing to tolerate some disruption. And when they started sending people to El Salvador’s prison, that was just a break for me where I realized I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt. I wanted it to be open in heart and mind and intellect and all the ways. And actually this is a retread of the first time, but on steroids. And so I felt like in my brain and body I had to like make this really hard turn that I had been trying to resist making. And then with that I feel like the rest of the year has been me grappling with, okay, if I don’t want to be the same person I was throughout the whole first administration, but this give the benefit of the doubt approach is not it for me. Then what is it? What’s the next evolution of how I think about what they’re doing?

Sarah [00:06:23] When I look back at my emotional journey, I do think the year breaks up in probably 30%, 30%, 30%-- not correct quarters, more like four-month segments. And at the beginning of the year when he was sworn in and we had the oligarchs on parade, the attention tycoons at the inauguration and we have Elon Musk and we had DOGE, we had a frenetic pace at the beginning. I wasn’t necessarily open-minded to what they were going to produce. That would not be an accurate description of how I felt. I didn’t feel like, oh, let’s see what they can do. I just felt like this is it, they’re in charge. There’s no fighting it. See, I wasn’t under any illusions that it was going to be great. I wasn’t even trying to be open minded to it being great. You were much more patient and open minded at the beginning of the year than I felt. I just feel like what are we going to do about it? He’s in charge, this it. And I will say, I don’t think that felt as despairing as the energy on the internet or even among our audience because I remember very early reading I think it was Yuval Levin. I think he was on Ezra Klein’s show and he was talking about this is what it feels like at the beginning of every administration. It feels like all is lost if you have lost, and the Democrats lost big time. All is lost. They’re going to be in power forever, and they’re going to do whatever they want till the end of time. And I was already trying to check myself from that. And when he said that, I thought, right, I have been here a million times. I lived through the Bush administration, damn it. I’ve been here before. I know what this is like. And a like core memory of 2025, reading very early in the year, reporting on their 100 year plan and I thought, oh, this is so stupid. Like they’re so far out in front of their skis. We are all freaking out. They will screw it up. They will fall out of power just like everybody else does. And it doesn’t mean people aren’t going to suffer in the process. And it does mean that there have been moments over 2025 where I have been shocked at the shamelessness, at the boldness of some of the action. But even in the early, oh my God, what is the Democratic party going to do days, I just always felt like this is not permanent. This is not the final day. He’s not going to be a king. He’s going to act like one. They’re going to screw things up. And so I wasn’t happy about it, but I never felt that despair. I just felt like we’ve been here before not only with him, but with other presidents. They are not going to be in power for a100 days. But I felt like that was the vibe from them and from even the broader internet. Like this is it. We’re in the Trump era. We’re here forever. This is ludicrous. The man’s 79 years old or was at the time. So I remember that period though, just being overwhelmed by the boldness, but really holding like an anchor. They’re not going to be in power for 100 years. They’re going to get out over their skis and overestimate their momentum just like everybody else does.

Beth [00:09:58] Yeah, we were told that this was going to be a much more disciplined administration, and in some ways it has been. We have not had the turnover that we had the first time.

Sarah [00:10:06] True. Good point.

Beth [00:10:09] We haven’t had as much leaking and backbiting. Some of that’s coming around now, but it’s been slower than in the first administration. So there has been some discipline, but also he’s still who he is. And I think you see with the tariffs and with immigration and the push-pull. It’s still the same pattern of story I don’t like? Okay, let me do something to move everybody’s attention on. Even if that’s making things infinitely worse, whatever, but I’m going to distract, distract, distract and stay alive for another day. I think that’s still what they do. It’s almost dull at this point.

Sarah [00:10:44] Yeah, don’t you feel that jump the shark a bit in 2025?

Beth [00:10:45] I do, yes. It’s tired.

Sarah [00:10:48] Yeah, and I feel like everybody, even people who aren’t plugged into the news sort of like, okay.

Beth [00:10:53] Right. And it’s also why I’m just going to be honest with you. I’m not losing sleep over that national security strategy document because I don’t believe that they have the discipline to follow through. I’m no interested in what this administration puts on paper. I’m interested in what it does in the world. I’m paying attention when they seize an oil tanker. I’m paying attention when they blow a boat out of the water. What they do in the world gets my attention, but I’m not going to follow what they write down because there is still-- and you especially get the sense of this now that there are some knives out among the cabinet members. It’s going to get even more like that as people see Trump aging visibly and think about him as a lame duck president. So I am trying to keep my feet on the ground. The thing that has connected with me the most about how I’ve been this year, I was watching Taylor Swift talk to Stephen Colbert, and she was talking about how at the beginning of every show sometimes she would have the stomach flu or a terrible cold, or she was in like terrible physical pain, but she put that body suit on and was like, let’s go, we’re doing this. And that’s how I’ve tried to be this year. You know what I mean? Especially because I’ve got this 14-year-old girl who’s really paying attention to politics in my house and I’ve got a 10-year-old who needs me a lot right now. And so I’ve tried to just wake up every day and be like, damn it, I have the flu and a cold and I’m in physical pain, but this body suit is popping. We’re doing it, let’s go.

Sarah [00:12:22] Yeah. There are moments that I look back and think that’s when the distraction didn’t work because that wasn’t a distraction. That was something that they are really accelerating. And when I look back at DOGE and how quickly it fell apart, as we expected, between Elon and Trump and the bro fight they had at the beginning of this year, I do think that they have really decimated the federal government and so many bureaucracies in a way that will take decades to rebuild, especially when we’re talking about the FDA and the CDC. I just don’t think we have a good handle on how bad it is over there.

Beth [00:13:08] The people who work in public health do, and will tell you. It is really, really bad.

Sarah [00:13:15] So I think the expansion of power through the decimation of the federal government absolutely through just putting all money, all law enforcement, everything into this immigration enforcement that has been so horrendous over the course of the year, you see the moments like where they’re putting their chips on the table and it’s always bad. And I hate to put this in the lineup of people getting fired, people getting deported. But damn, the tearing down of the East Wing was really a moment for me this year. And I don’t think I’m the only one. There was something about the lying it won’t impact the structure that much. Oh, by the way, I tore the whole thing. Your house, a wing of the people’s house, tore it down. That feels like such a pivot point to me. I feel like that’s what broke through to the not regular news consumer. How could it not be? He tore down an entire wing of the White House. And the polling on it is fascinating, especially among conservative women, that it just kind of broke through because it was this physical, visual, impactful manifestation of his attitude, which is, I get to do whatever the hell I want.

Beth [00:14:38] They’ve done a lot worse in Supreme Court filings, but it does not have the impact.

Sarah [00:14:42] No.

Beth [00:14:43] It does not the impact of seeing brick and mortar pulled down like that and the brazenness of it, the timing of it. I do think that a lot of people looked at that and realized, oh, he is just doing whatever he wants and who’s going to stop him? And I think that’s just what 2025 has been about. Nobody’s been around to stop it.

Sarah [00:15:07] Not the Supreme Court. That’s the deadline for 2025.

Beth [00:15:11] For sure.

Sarah [00:15:11] Absolutely not the Supreme Court. I do think the economy is stopping him. I think the prices of things, the affordability crisis, and I think that No King’s protest had a huge impact.

Beth [00:15:22] Can I ask you some questions about affordability for a second? I agree with you that I think if anything is constraining him right now, it is his awareness that people are not happy. He promised more than he could deliver on the economy. A fear that I have is that taking up that mantle for Democrats is just going to do the same thing. I’m afraid that whoever carries the banner of prices are too high, let’s stick it to those guys. We’re just going to trade back and forth on that issue. And maybe that’s what politics has always been. I’m kind of interested in your perspective on that because every time I hear somebody say, “This is the message for Democrats,” I’m like, but what are they going to do about it?

Sarah [00:16:04] Let’s talk about Democrats of the year because I think he’s going to do whatever the hell he wants to do is a pretty good summary. No matter how much pain, no matter how much it is a complete and total violation of the rule of law, I don’t want to miss the moment to emphasize again the massive corruption that has taken place over the course of this year with this administration. Just mind-boggling, shocking, shameless corruption. And I emphasize that because I think that is the piece of the affordability message that Democrats need to cling to. Because that you can have impact on. That you can say, your prices are high and they’re getting rich. And you can get in there and you can make a lot of impact when it comes to holding people responsible for corruption, holding hearings, putting some people up in front of the cameras and saying, “Why are you getting rich while everybody can’t afford to buy their first house?” So I think putting those two together gets you a more immediate impact around that message than pure affordability because I do think that’s difficult. It depends, right? If Democrats take control of Congress and they can get in there and force some rollback of these terrorists, I do think people would feel that, hopefully, in the short term. I think they do have levers at their disposal. They’re not going to solve the housing crisis overnight. And I don’t think that that is an expectation of the voting public around a midterm. I think a midterm is very-- and I think that’s why affordability is a great one for the midterm. My midterm is they’re not doing it. Then you get in control and then you have a president to come in with a vision, a presidential candidate to come into the vision in 2028 and say, “Okay, we heard you on affordability. Here’s what we’re going to do about it,” which I think is the plan. I don’t think it can just be affordability, but I think that’s going to be a big one. And I think looking back over this year, it’s not just the economy that’s been holding him to account. It’s absolutely been these elections. I mean, the message is clear. When you say like we’re going to be trading back and forth, we already have been for basically the entire time you and I’ve been doing this podcast. Like it is the immediate job of the Democratic Party to win the midterms and to put up a vision for 2028. But I would love for some thinkers, policy hacks, political geniuses to put together a vision for a more lasting governing majority. Because the trading back and forth is certainly not putting us in a competitive place for the rest of the 21st century. And it’s wearing everybody out. I feel like 2025 is the year everybody was like, I don’t want to, I’m tired. I don’t want to be mean. I don’t want to be hateful. I’m tired of this. I think people want a little policy fight. They want some impact. They want to some governing. But I think that people are tired of the nastiness in politics. Normal people, anyway. And so putting together that majority like a real governing alliance that can say this is what we want the next, not two years, not four years-- 10 years to look like would be really impactful.

Beth [00:19:21] Well, if we stay in retrospective mode, that sense that people are tired of the nastiness, I think that this has been a pivotal year in shaping how we think about politics as a sport. I think that began last year at the end of the year with the shooting of the United Health Care Executive. I think it continued with Charlie Kirk’s assassination. I think that was a real moment of a lot of people saying like, oh my God, enough of this. This is terrible. And I think it is continuing on with Marjorie Taylor Greene out there saying, “I texted the president that his words are leading to my children receiving death threats, and he couldn’t say anything nice in response.” I think that’s all really important. It’s horrible. I hate that it’s had to get this bad for us to have a moment of like what are we doing here? But I do feel like we’re having a moment of what are doing here.

Sarah [00:20:22] Yeah, I was really struck when I was watching the Google search ad for 2025, like the ad Google puts together, sort of like a retrospective. I don’t think Trump was in it once, unless there was like a really flashing shot and I missed it. The two political moments in the retrospective were Charlie Kirk’s death and Zahran Mamdani’s election, which I thought was really, really interesting. I do think Charlie Kirk assassination was probably the one of the most important events of the year. It was so shocking. It was so terrible. And I think it led to a lot of important, almost like breaking apart. I think you see it on the right. I think that it sort of broke apart some delicate alliances and freed some people to really broadcast their conspiracy theories and antisemitism and racism and sexism in a way that probably was coming anyway because of Trump’s aging and because of the new Succession-like drama unfolding as his term plays out. But I also think it led to some really good conversations and arguments and debates on the left too about what is this going to look like? And I think, interestingly, I kind of agree with Google. I think Mamdani coming along and being this joyful positive example in his campaigning, whatever you think about his policies, whatever you thing about him, the vibe was such a contrast to the, honestly, Charlie Kirk’s vibe. Like this sort of gotcha, hardcore, a little bit angry debate style. And I don’t think Mamdani fixed it or anything, but I do think there was helpful conversation on the left. I’m thinking a lot about the conversation between Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ezra Klein. Like, what are we doing? What does this mean? We’re not all going to agree. What does that mean? I think some of the conversations that’s been happening on the argument have been really good with regards to this on Substack about what does it mean to be progressive? What does it mean to be liberal? What does it mean to me to be tolerant? Like, where are we going next with all this? And I do think that his death in such a shocking way really broke open that conversation on both the left and right.

Beth [00:23:02] It makes sense to me that Kirk and Mamdani would be in that ad also because those are two men of the internet, for sure. And they are two men. They are to individuals. To me, far and away, the most important story of 2025 is Trump’s seizure of hard power domestically sending ICE agents and the National Guard into cities, especially cities where they were not welcomed by the city’s leadership. The harsh-- harsh is not a harsh enough word-- tactics used around immigration and deportation. That’s the most important thing, but those are complex stories and they involve too many people and too many moving parts. Different people within those cities have different feelings about them. It’s almost just like it overwhelms your brain in a way that Kirk and Mamdani do not. As horrific as the Kirk shooting was, you can get your mind around what happened there in a way that it’s much harder to with this just seizure of unchecked, unaccountable power that has been to me the through line connecting everything that Trump has done this year.

Sarah [00:24:19] We have not had a public, gruesome assassination that basically everyone witnessed like that in this country really since JFK. So I think that shared trauma sort of just-- I don’t want to say it brought us all together. It didn’t.

Beth [00:24:42] Definitely not.

Sarah [00:24:43] Definitely not, but it was a shared experience for better or for worse. And there were lots of terrible natural disasters this year, but again, I mean, the fires in LA were awful. The floods in Texas, particularly through Camp Mystic, were heartbreaking. But even when it’s sad and it’s tragic, it’s not the same as seeing a young man shot in front of a giant crowd of people like that. So I just think that it broke through in a real heartbreaking way.

Beth [00:25:33] It wasn’t all doom and gloom in 2025. We have a new pope who has made a real impact.

Sarah [00:25:38] I love him. I love Pope Bob. I call him that like we’re friends. It’s like how Nicholas calls AOC, Sandy, like they’re friends, even though they’re not. Also, I saw him in Rome with both a Papal audience and he was mere feet away from me in his Pope mobile for the first time, his first ride in his Pope mobile. It was like one of the best days of the year. I’m not even Catholic. I just love him so much. Did you see the moment where Queen Nora was like I think they were talking about going to Yemen or Lebanon? And she was like, are you worried about going? He’s like, well, we’re going. Doesn’t matter. Like, are you worried about being safe? And he’s like, well, we’re going to either way. I’m into his vibe. I love how they’re still doing all the cultural stuff. Have you seen that? They brought all these directors and actors, like Cate Blanchett was there. Like they brought all these people together. I think Pope Francis had one with comedians, but Pope Leo was having one with like Spike Lee was there saying like we don’t want to be culturally antagonistic. We think what you do is really important, and we think having conversations about virtue through the lens of art and all these are really important. I just I am into it. I like him so much. I want to give him a hug.

Beth [00:26:53] What I find really inspiring about the pope (I am also not Catholic) is that this feels like the responsibility side of American patriotism to me. It felt like a really big deal to have an American pope and there was this real enthusiasm about it and for a second I thought this is going to be kind of like the Olympics. It’s one of those big international phenomenon moments where you go, oh yay! Yay Americans! Whatever else, hooray! But in an ongoing sense, the way that he has not hesitated to wade into what’s happening in the United States and the way he maintains the capacity to speak to issues around the globe, but it still feels distinctly American, to me, it’s like a richer patriotism to watch that moral leadership on the world stage. I think it’s impactful. That will play out over a long time. You can’t judge a Pope by the first year, right? But I think there’s something really healthy in that that I would love to see more of for this country.

Sarah [00:28:04] Yeah, I just love him so much. I also thought that there was an important and positive reckoning with regards to Prince Andrew and the royal family. I was glad to see him stripped of all his titles and castles and bullshit. I thought that was helpful and good. Overall, I know I feel like-- and I was thinking about this because Pope Bob had a gathering with King Charles the first one cross denominational since I think King Henry broke it all.

Beth [00:28:34] It’s a big deal.

Sarah [00:28:36] Yeah, it’s a big deal. I thought that was really positive. I think King Charles is doing a good job. I know you were just talking about patriotism and I’ve taken us to the King of England. But I just think he’s doing a good job. I think he is seeing some issues, he’s addressing them. I don’t know. I think King Charles is overall a winner of 2025.

Beth [00:28:56] I also think that it’s been positive that the Epstein story has come into the light in 2025 in a more constructive way. Not a completely constructive way as our conversation with Julie K Brown reminds us that there are still a lot of good governance reporting to be done here and work to be down here. But I think that it’s a year in which that story has gone from being the fodder of just the dark corners of the internet or a punchline, to being taken more seriously and understood for the bigger themes that it represents. And I think that the way that the victims have been out there publicly has been really important and inspiring too. There’s so much courage represented in those folks who’ve come forward.

Sarah [00:29:47] I also think, obviously, one of the biggest stories of the year has been artificial intelligence, and I would never put that solidly in the good news category. However, the ability of medical researchers to use artificial intelligence to continue from my vantage point at the Good News Brief, breakneck pace when it comes to medical breakthroughs is pretty incredible. I mean, they cured type one diabetes this year. They cured it. They had removed the need for insulin with stem cells, but then you had to have immunosuppressants, which you’d rather take insulin than immunosuppressants. But they used gene editing technology this year. And I think the person they cured had it for like 20, 30 years, and they no longer need insulin. And that’s incredible. That’s incredible. And the breakthroughs with Parkinsons. And the baby, remember the baby they used CRISPR, and they cured his rare genetic disorder with CRISPR technology. There were so many incredible medical science breakthroughs, even in a year that took a lot of, especially domestically, abuse around, obviously, the further breakdown in trust of vaccines and all the dismantling of the FDA and the CDC and the defunding of so much medical research still that there’s so many people just doggedly pursuing cures that will change people’s lives is incredible.

Beth [00:31:25] So I think that it has been a very resilient year overall, and a year that has had a lot of creativity in it. Like in the midst of destruction, people make things, and you can see people making lots of things, lots of advances, and it’s not just science, it’s art too. We had this conversation about slop last time, but in small ways, on the ground, local community efforts, people are doing a lot of really cool things out there. And I’m just kind of proud of everybody for continuing on. And we’ve talked about this with protests too. Protests have gotten more creative this year. People aren’t just recycling what they did in 2017. It’s been interesting, it’s been positive. It’s been with a different spirit. And I think that’s encouraging.

Sarah [00:32:14] I think there’s absolutely been an incredible impact from the No Kings protest. I think they’re well organized. I think that they are impactful. I think they’re incredibly diverse and broad based across the entire country in ways that is so hopeful. I think it’s great. And I think you see that energy and activism in the candidates coming forward. We spent a lot of time this year talking about how Congress has given up its power and how Congress isn’t doing anything and how Congress generally sucks. And still amazing people are stepping forward to run for Congress. Like really incredible candidates, really smart, thoughtful people with diverse backgrounds across all kinds of industries and educational experiences. And overall this year I felt like people in lots of ways, not just in politics, not just running for office, we’re just ready to step up. I got the vibe in my community a lot. Like finally post covid people are like, okay, all right, I can step up. I can volunteer. I could do a little bit more. I have more capacity. I’m ready to get to work. I felt that in lots of areas both politically in the news, in my community and I think it’s great.

Beth [00:33:37] There’s kind of a split screen always to me because this administration feels so much like the past. That they’re fighting the last war always. What interests the president is always backward looking. Even the AI piece of it where he really consistently is betting big on going all in with the tech bros, it feels backward looking to me in the sense that he’s just decided that the wealthiest captains of industry, he’s going to do their bidding and they’ll do his. I mean, that’s an old story. That’s not about the potential and promise of science, the way that you just articulated for the president. Politically, that an old story. And so they always feel like way in the past to me, but their actions have such widespread consequences in the present that so many people are really exhausted and worn out by it and afraid of what comes next. And it’s been such a grueling year. And then there’s that split screen of people who maybe are a little bit less directly affected or are directly affected. And they’re so in it that they can see around the next corner and are ready to go to the next corner and just take it forward like keep carrying the torch. And so I don’t know, it’s been a really fragmented year in that way because I think there has been a ton of resilience and there has just been a ton of angst and pain and fatigue and both are real and understandable and I honor them both. And that’s just been hard to hang on to this year. I feel like I see it more clearly here in December than I have throughout the year. I’ve been looking back and forth like a tennis match between those two things and here in December I’m like, no, they’ve both been there all year.

Sarah [00:35:38] I don’t know. I just feel like it’s been a battle and I feel like the willingness to fight. I think a lot about Try by Sebastian Younger all the time, the idea that like people like to be in it, in a fight with each other. And that’s the vibe I’ve gotten. I just felt like it’s so different from the first time where people wanted to fight back politically but they were more afraid of impact on their daily life and so there still was a protective angle of their decision making. Whereas, this time it just feels like he’s unleashed and so I have to be too. Like I can’t be in a protective posture. I got to be ready to fight. And I think the politicians who came out as like the biggest winners this year are the ones who showed they’re ready to fight. And I don’t mean to be cruel. I don’t mean to be distinctly partisan. I mean fighting for something. And I feel like you hear that from the communities that were basically occupied by federal law enforcement. And even though they took different approaches. The fight in Chicago and the silly protests in Portland are very different and the same for LA. They stood their ground and they fought until the courts were like you have to leave. Like the National Guard has to leave. Again, I’m not saying we fixed it and everything’s perfect, but you do see that impact in a way that I think is really, really encouraging. Really encouraging. I come out of 2025 not battle weary, but energized to see especially now that he’s a little on his heels.

Beth [00:37:34] Federalism has been a big theme this year. They have returned some powers to the states. The states have grabbed some powers. The states have decided to fight the administration in different ways. As you mentioned, cities have gone in different directions in standing up as they have been flooded with federal law enforcement. It reminds me of how a number of essays that I’ve read this year, some of my favorites, have taken the question, what is here now as a guiding light. Just what is here now? And that is what has inspired me in political leadership, the people who have just said, what is here now? I am not going to keep relitigating the last election. I am not going to constantly talk about how terrible they are. I’m just going to say what is here now and what is the next step that I can take in doing good in the midst of that? And I hope that next year we get to really hear people flesh out those arguments. Okay, here’s what I see now and what I want to do about it and where I want to take us. I am energized because I like an election year. I like when there’s a decision on the table. I think this year felt so hard because there were just no decisions on the tables for the average person. That’s not going to be true next year.

Sarah [00:38:53] Well, and I just want to say, I encourage everyone to look at this year through the lens of it made you stronger. Even if you feel exhausted, even if you feel run down, even if you struggled with the fact that there was not a lot we could do to stop him, you’re still stronger on the other side of it. You still made it. You still survived. You still figured out what your news consumption looked like. You still feel like what your social media presence looked like. You still got involved in your community. You still did whatever it looked like for you. You made it. I think one of the best parts of this year is it feels like everybody like social media jumped the shark. And it feels everybody, even from like the TikTok blackout to the perpetuation of short form video, even my 16 year old is like, ugh, I don’t want to do this anymore. Which I think is really positive for humanity and definitely for our politics. Because I think when you can’t take action in the way you want, you’re forced to reflect on the action you can take and what you can control. And it does feel like there is a lot of reflection on our individual habits or involvement. I just looked at a listener’s Christmas card where they said, we stepped away from social media and we hosted a lot parties in our lives. And so we maybe weren’t as in touch with you as we used to be, but this is what we gained. And I thought it was really beautiful that people are like taking concrete action. They were controlling what they could control, which is about all you ever can do, whatever the year is. And I think that’s really beautiful.

Beth [00:40:32] Yeah, I had put in my notes for this episode if you could tell your January 2025 self one thing, what would it be? And I think for me it would be just telling my January 2025 self, it’s okay to be a mom first this year. Most years of my professional life I have been really, really dug in professionally. And I would say that my family contribution has been on equal, and if I’m being honest, sometimes lesser ground than my professional contributions. And that’s just not been how it’s been this year. Like my energy, my priority, my focus, what feels like success to me, it’s all bound up in being a mom this year, and that’s okay. Some years are like that.

Sarah [00:41:17] I would tell myself that, Sarah, you were right. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are going to get engaged and it’s going to feel like you in fact got engaged because everyone is going to congratulate you like you were in the garden under the roses. High point of my ear. I mean, the amount of messages I got that people said, “I thought of you first.” Core memory forever. Incredible. I just didn’t want to go. Didn’t want us to get to the next section without shouting out possibly the best part of 2025. What would I seriously say to myself in 2025? I think what I would tell myself in January 2025 is that I will reclaim some of my identity as an American. I feel like 2025 was like one long prep party for the 250th anniversary of America. And there was this undercurrent narrative this whole year when it was so tough. I had so many people ask me like, would you leave? Would you ever leave the country? Have you thought about leaving? Have you made plans to leave? There was like this story or this decision making and some people did pursue other passports and buy houses in other countries and all this stuff. And somebody asked me that recently and I said hell no. I am a ninth generation American. I’m not going anywhere. This is my country. That’s my house you just tore a wing down of. I think maybe it’s because I took our boys to Washington DC for the first time. And so walking through the Capitol Rotunda after a long time and revisiting my time there, I do think it’s a lot of like the 250th narrative that’s already begun. I watched all 12 hours of Ken Burns’ documentary that I really this year kind of reclaimed that. It was like when push comes to shove, what am I here for? What do I want? Is this important to me? It is. This country is very important to me. And my identity as a citizen of this country is very important to me. And I love this country and I loved it even when shit hits the fan. And so I’m I’m grateful for 2025, for teaching me that. And I am really ready in 2026 to celebrate this country’s birthday. I’m excited. I’ll make it my whole personality next year so y’all get excited about that. But I think I’m already in that frame of mind thanks to a lot of events, both good and bad that happened in 2025.

Beth [00:43:57] Well, it’s interesting that I think for both of us it’s just a connection to what is here now. This is the place. This is where I am. And so this is what I’m doing and what I am focused on. I felt like it would be really easy to lose myself this year. And I did feel I struggled this year. I did not enjoy a whole lot of talking about politics this year. It was hard, but I have loved a lot of this year. I’ve had a lot good of things. I’ve had really special moments with friends and family, still with listeners. I’ve learned a lot from listeners. One of my friends was talking to me about More to Say this year and he said you kind of have been like seeding the floor a lot. And I said, yeah, because partially I get tired of myself, but also there are so many incredible people around me who know so much and have such interesting insights and questions and experiences. And so I think I just tried this year to get out of my own way and tried to say, “I do not have to have all the answers and I am not in charge of everything and I cannot change everything or fix anything really for anyone right now, but I can listen and I can show up and I can be as kind and patient as I can possibly be.” And then when I lose that capacity and screw up, I can say I’m sorry and try again. And I feel like that’s been it for me. It’s just kind of grinding it out. And there’s something good about that. A lot of life is like that. And so that’s kind of what I will take from 2025. We ground it out and I think 2026 will be a really interesting year with a lot to sink into. And I do think that spirit of resilience and creativity will be with us next year.

Sarah [00:45:42] And I just want to say to you and everyone else you don’t owe anybody an apology because good things happen to your family or in your life in the midst of a lot of garbage from this administration. I think there’s this need for people to say like, well, I feel bad because I had a good year or I feel because a lot of wonderful things happened to my family. Don’t do that.

Beth [00:46:06] I don’t feel bad that I had good year. That’s not what I was trying to do.

Sarah [00:46:09] But I feel like that’s like often the-- you hear like an apology in people’s voice. Like I tend to do that. I had a good 2025. I had a good year. I went a year four times. What am I complaining about? My kids did good. My kids settled. They found their space. They kind of found their solid footing. Griffin got his driver’s license. My husband got a really good promotion in his job and is really enjoying his work. And I saw a lot of the country and the world and got some really great opportunities. Both of us did through Common Ground Pilgrimages. We got to spend some really incredible time with listeners, with people in our community. We got celebrate 10 years of Pantsuit Politics, which is an incredible gift. I think all the time about my grandmother saying Donald Trump ruined her 80s on the show I did where I interviewed her. And I am not going to let him ruin a single year of my life. I am just not doing it. I’m just not going to do it. And I hope no one else lets him have that power over you either.

Beth [00:47:27] I think that is true in a lot of senses, and I am sympathetic to the mixed bag that this year was for a lot of people, and the devastating year that it was for lot of people. I’m not apologizing for good things, but I want to hold open that, yeah, a lot of this sucked. A lot of this sucked and left people thinking what next? I think a lot of people’s year felt like the equivalent of that East Wing. Especially professionally, people who’ve given decades of their lives to government work. I mean, immigrant communities, there’s just a lot here all at once. What is here now? A lot. A lot of different things. And I feel okay. And I am looking forward to next year. I’m definitely ready to flip the calendar here. I just don’t think there is a right or wrong way to process what this year has been because it has been so many things.

Sarah [00:48:23] I just feel like that’s the work of aging. Every year is like that the older you get. It is that paradox of it feels like it goes fast, but it also feels like it contained a ton of things all at once. It contains celebration. It contained heartbreak. It contained successes. It contains challenges. And I think the older I get, the more I’m like yay to all of it. I just love it here. I still love it here even after a year like 2025.

Beth [00:49:00] Well, let’s move on to Outside of Politics and talk about books. Part of the reason you love it here, I think, is you love to read. So tell us what your favorite fiction of the year was.

Sarah [00:49:10] I’ve read about 70 books this year. So this is so hard. I love these lists and also I’m terrible at them. I want everyone to tell me and then I can’t ever do it.

Beth [00:49:22] You’re always like let’s talk about the best of whatever. And then we do it and you’re like, oh, I can’t. I would be fine not doing this. We could do something else if you want.

Sarah [00:49:28] No, but I want to do it. I’m bad at it. You can both want to do something that you are in fact terrible at.

Beth [00:49:37] It’s like every time I go bowling, that’s the situation.

Sarah [00:49:40] Exactly. Okay, so I’m going to do fiction and nonfiction because I just think they’re two different categories of books. You really could do fiction, nonfiction, audio book, but I won’t put everybody through that. Fiction, the best book I read is War and Peace. It’s an incredible work of literary achievement. But I don’t know if it’s like my favorite book of the year. It’s incredible. I highly recommend doing a slow read of it. It will ruin a lot of other books for you because Tolstoy’s not breaking any new ground here. Pretty good at writing. I think when I looked back over like all the fiction books I read, I really loved Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel, which is another slow read I did with Simon Heisel at Footnotes and Tangents. I really loved it. It’s written in a very interesting-- I forgot what he calls it, but it’s not first person because he’s not saying I. But you only know what Thomas Cromwell knows. But he’ll be like, the narrator, which is him, will be like he. I don’t know how to explain it. Just trust me. It’s brilliant. And it’s so incredible. And you feel like you’re there. To me, it is the best work of historical fiction I’ve ever read. You feel like you’re in the room with Henry VIII. It’s incredible. For the first time, he feels like a real person. Anne Boleyn feels like a real person. They were in fact real people, but the further back in history, the harder it is to feel that. But she does it. You feel you are standing in the rooms with King Henry VIII. It’s incredible.

Beth [00:51:26] My favorite fiction of the year was Little Women. I’ve talked about it a lot lately because it’s a recent experience that I had going to discuss this book. It was just the right book at the right time for me. I think that’s the truth of it. Like this year, there’s just a lot here. There is delight. There is heartbreak. There is a kind of background struggle that comes to the foreground too often and really complex relationships. And that was just helpful to me. It was helpful to me to read about a totally different way of growing up as a girl as I watched my two daughters hitting kind of the ages of the girls in that book. And I found it very thought-provoking for what was written as a children’s book. It just had a lot for me.

Sarah [00:52:12] Okay, my favorite nonfiction book which I had mentioned how it is about quite a bit at the beginning of the year was How to Hide an Empire which is about America’s presence around the globe since its founding. It’s so good. Man, I love it when somebody tells me like this big old huge chunk of American history that I knew nothing about. That was like not a secret. It was like the longest war we fought was in the Philippines. I didn’t even know we had a war in the Philippians. And it’s also just very entertainingly written. Like it’s not dense. It’s light. It’s funny in parts. It’s just a great book. Great book. A listener sent it to us like two years ago and I finally read it. It’s so good.

Beth [00:53:00] My favorite non-fiction is also a book I read early in the year, Risky Business. It’s about insurance. It’s a group of economists and they really in a very engaging way-- I mean, a book about insurance, whoa! But I’m a good time at parties. But they really do break down at its core like what is insurance? What is its history? What is it supposed to do? In what context does it work? Why does it seem to not be working in most contexts right now? And I found it really helpful. And it’s a book that I continue to go back to and pick up my notes from and just think about. I think we’re going to be talking a whole lot more about insurance next year. And it gave me a foundation that feels like you can do something with it. It’s not just, whoa, this worked for a while, but maybe not anymore. But it feels like, okay, I understand that there have been evolutions in insurance and experiments in insurance. And we can continue to evolve and experiment.

Sarah [00:54:01] I feel like insurance jumped the shark in 2025.

Beth [00:54:04] It’s been a tough year for insurance.

Sarah [00:54:07] I just feel like it’s course and everybody’s like why do I have this? Or can’t get it. One or the other.

Beth [00:54:14] I definitely have been in the mode of I’m not sure what good this does me with a number of insurance policies. And yet when I think about the people I know who cannot insure their homes, I’m glad I have it. So it’s a tough one. Well, anxious to hear your best books of the year, of course, and then we’ll all go, oh my God, my TBR has gotten way too big and out of control. But like what is the end of the Year if not that? It’s fine.

Sarah [00:54:39] We’ll put a pin in that, Beth. Because I have a breakthrough plan for my TBR list for 2026 that we will talk about on Friday.

Beth [00:54:47] Excellent, can’t wait. On Friday, we are going to discuss what we’re looking forward into 2026. So we’ll probably pick up on that conversation about the Democrats, as well as our words of the year, our resolutions and Sarah’s TBR plan. Can’t wait to see you back here then. Have the best week available to you.

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Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our Managing Director and Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.

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