My favorite show of 2025 is easily Andor. It's a pretty serious show, not great if you like your television on the light and silly side. But no show has given me the goosebump feeling more than Andor.
On the lighter and sillier side, we really enjoyed Murderbot. It's one season and tells a complete story.
This was a great discussion. Very thought provoking. I feel that you can be empathetic and still tell someone no. I don’t want this country deporting people who have been here for years. I believe that immigrants have made this country a wonderful place to live. But if the majority of people in this country want that to happen then it can be done empathetically with dignity and compassion for the people being deported. It might be much harder and difficult to do but it is possible. This administration is doing it without any empathy, kindness or dignity at all. This is wrong on so many levels.
I appreciated this episode. I am a Highly Sensitive Person and I didn’t know that until I went to seminary. Really after I graduated. I have seen how my over-centering one group of people can be toxic—my family fell victim to it & there’s no better way to learn than to get your butt kicked by it.
That’s when I learned the difference between empathy and compassion. Empathy is a skill, not an emotion—is the first thing I want to high light. As an empath, I now know I can hear people when they talk in ways many can’t (meaning I can hear what’s not being said or the tone in which is said or the body language). It’s a gift and can be so powerful when used responsibly. The minute I project—meaning I think I know how they are feeling bc I’m overly identifying with it, that is toxic.
With that said—empathy is not a sin. It’s not toxic. It’s a skill that needs to be learned. Without proper tools, just like anything, it will go off the rails. Allie Beth Stuckey’s book is irresponsible. She didn’t even do the research on empathy—she when called it an emotion. It’s not! She’s also not a theologian. She’s not an expert or educated on any of the issues she brought up in the book. She even used to the term “transgenderism”—even conservatices like Preston Sprinkle know that’s not okay to use, no matter what you think you know about the transgender community.
what this conservative movement is really arguing is they don’t have to feel any compassion. And there’s no ground to stand on using scripture to make that case. Compassion doesn’t involve having to understand or even feel what someone else is going through. What it requires is listening and responding in a way that upholds the dignity of the person on the receiving end, even if what has to be done is hard.
they are infantilizing empathy—bc their dear leader is at an infant level of understanding emotions (he can only understand what crooks are going through bc that’s his experience, as you so rightly pointed out) and they are at an infant level too. And people who use how they feel to strongarm hard situations are also needing to learn too.
empathy is a skill. I can’t say it enough. It’s a gift if you’ve got it; use it wisely. But compassion is required of all of us. Whether you are a theologian or not—you can’t have a trustworthy society without compassion.
Hey Sarah, unrelated to most of what y’all talked about on the podcast today… I didn’t know you lost a brother to alcoholism. I, too, lost my brother a couple years ago after a lifetime of alcohol addiction. It was horrible. You couldn’t write a worse death. I’m so sorry that’s part of your story, too.
The “toxic empathy” crowd annoys me to no end as a Christian. As I understand it the point is political with a veneer of Christianity. Since some Christians challenged their heartless approach, this is their defense.
As I understand it, that the core of their argument goes like this: empathy becomes toxic when it moves you to accept “sinful lifestyles”. I think that’s wrong in several levels. Empathy does not demand acceptance or moral adjustment. It’s just the ability to feel what the other feels. By itself it’s not very helpful, but I would never call it toxic. It can be paralyzing so it renders the would be helper or ally useless. Sympathy it’s a step in the right direction but not enough. It just makes you grieve for the suffering of others. The right step is compassion. That’s what hits you in the gut and makes you to do something on behalf of the other.
In a way, this is a repackaging of the old “love the sinner not the sin”. Or “the most loving thing you can do for someone is to confront them with their sin and the prospect of hell”. The problem with that, and the current version, is that it narrows its focus to specific favorite “sins”: abortion, LGBTQ issues, and recently, the need for a strong border. “Purity” used to be huge, but it was abandoned as a big issues at the turn of millennium. I guess they thought that horse has left the barn a long ago. It’s never greed, injustice, oppression, and white collar peccadilloes.
Now two or three specific points to things mentioned on the episode:
1. Virtue. I don’t think independent virtues can be ordered à la carte. True virtue is the pursuit of all of them. Also, virtues are virtues, imho. They are not different in every religion or school of thought. Now each religion and school of thought might have different ones, or emphasize specific approaches or ways to show it.
2. I am not Catholic, I just play one on TV. However, I appreciate one of the pillars of their social teachings, “the preferential option for the poor.” The gist of it is that every policy, program, action should keep in mind the plight of the poor and vulnerable. Just like a parent of multiple children might have to poor more attention and resources on a sick child over the others; make decisions based on the one with special requirements. It’s not loving that one more than the others, it’s just catering to a particular challenge.
3. Finally, because why not, immigration could be enforced humanly and ethically. A first step would be to enforce it lawfully. The big next step is to reform our immigration laws.
Traditionally, the term "narco-terrorism" has been used to describe people trafficking drugs to fund terrorist activities. The drugs were only a means to an end. I am not sure if the Administration is using it that way and is implying that Venezuela is planning terrorist attacks on the US, or if they are doing their usual thing of playing fast and loose with their words.
@Beth Silvers -- I (at age 57) watched KPop Demon Hunters all by myself one Saturday. My Girl Scout girls had come in talking and singing and I thought I'd better try to keep up with what they were so obsessed with! I'm happy to tell anyone -- I enjoyed it. And I loved being able to bring up some of the lessons from it the next time the girls were talking about it!
On empathy… I care so much about who is being hurt by all of this chaos and devastated by some in my (former) religious community’s mental gymnastics around supporting this administration’s actions. And yet, when charities contact me with requests for money for yet another group in need, I feel exhausted and like I’m reaching a saturation point - Which sounds terrible. I definitely keep going back to “why do we have to convince you to care about people?”
I’m horrified about the bombings of the boats and killing people! And I also wonder what the truth is. Is there so much to care about that people get overwhelmed and instead, just ignore everything?
These Heathens by Mia McKenzie is one of my favorites this year. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/726254/these-heathens-by-mia-mckenzie/
My favorite show of 2025 is easily Andor. It's a pretty serious show, not great if you like your television on the light and silly side. But no show has given me the goosebump feeling more than Andor.
On the lighter and sillier side, we really enjoyed Murderbot. It's one season and tells a complete story.
This was a great discussion. Very thought provoking. I feel that you can be empathetic and still tell someone no. I don’t want this country deporting people who have been here for years. I believe that immigrants have made this country a wonderful place to live. But if the majority of people in this country want that to happen then it can be done empathetically with dignity and compassion for the people being deported. It might be much harder and difficult to do but it is possible. This administration is doing it without any empathy, kindness or dignity at all. This is wrong on so many levels.
I appreciated this episode. I am a Highly Sensitive Person and I didn’t know that until I went to seminary. Really after I graduated. I have seen how my over-centering one group of people can be toxic—my family fell victim to it & there’s no better way to learn than to get your butt kicked by it.
That’s when I learned the difference between empathy and compassion. Empathy is a skill, not an emotion—is the first thing I want to high light. As an empath, I now know I can hear people when they talk in ways many can’t (meaning I can hear what’s not being said or the tone in which is said or the body language). It’s a gift and can be so powerful when used responsibly. The minute I project—meaning I think I know how they are feeling bc I’m overly identifying with it, that is toxic.
With that said—empathy is not a sin. It’s not toxic. It’s a skill that needs to be learned. Without proper tools, just like anything, it will go off the rails. Allie Beth Stuckey’s book is irresponsible. She didn’t even do the research on empathy—she when called it an emotion. It’s not! She’s also not a theologian. She’s not an expert or educated on any of the issues she brought up in the book. She even used to the term “transgenderism”—even conservatices like Preston Sprinkle know that’s not okay to use, no matter what you think you know about the transgender community.
what this conservative movement is really arguing is they don’t have to feel any compassion. And there’s no ground to stand on using scripture to make that case. Compassion doesn’t involve having to understand or even feel what someone else is going through. What it requires is listening and responding in a way that upholds the dignity of the person on the receiving end, even if what has to be done is hard.
they are infantilizing empathy—bc their dear leader is at an infant level of understanding emotions (he can only understand what crooks are going through bc that’s his experience, as you so rightly pointed out) and they are at an infant level too. And people who use how they feel to strongarm hard situations are also needing to learn too.
empathy is a skill. I can’t say it enough. It’s a gift if you’ve got it; use it wisely. But compassion is required of all of us. Whether you are a theologian or not—you can’t have a trustworthy society without compassion.
👏👏👏👏
Hey Sarah, unrelated to most of what y’all talked about on the podcast today… I didn’t know you lost a brother to alcoholism. I, too, lost my brother a couple years ago after a lifetime of alcohol addiction. It was horrible. You couldn’t write a worse death. I’m so sorry that’s part of your story, too.
Best TV Show: Nobody Wants This
Unfortunately, I'm barely aware movies exist these days so I've got nothing for that category
The irony… Toxic Empathy is on sale on Amazon today. Not that I’m interested…
They gotta sell those copies
My favorite book this year was The Correspondent by Virginia Evans 🧡
The “toxic empathy” crowd annoys me to no end as a Christian. As I understand it the point is political with a veneer of Christianity. Since some Christians challenged their heartless approach, this is their defense.
As I understand it, that the core of their argument goes like this: empathy becomes toxic when it moves you to accept “sinful lifestyles”. I think that’s wrong in several levels. Empathy does not demand acceptance or moral adjustment. It’s just the ability to feel what the other feels. By itself it’s not very helpful, but I would never call it toxic. It can be paralyzing so it renders the would be helper or ally useless. Sympathy it’s a step in the right direction but not enough. It just makes you grieve for the suffering of others. The right step is compassion. That’s what hits you in the gut and makes you to do something on behalf of the other.
In a way, this is a repackaging of the old “love the sinner not the sin”. Or “the most loving thing you can do for someone is to confront them with their sin and the prospect of hell”. The problem with that, and the current version, is that it narrows its focus to specific favorite “sins”: abortion, LGBTQ issues, and recently, the need for a strong border. “Purity” used to be huge, but it was abandoned as a big issues at the turn of millennium. I guess they thought that horse has left the barn a long ago. It’s never greed, injustice, oppression, and white collar peccadilloes.
Now two or three specific points to things mentioned on the episode:
1. Virtue. I don’t think independent virtues can be ordered à la carte. True virtue is the pursuit of all of them. Also, virtues are virtues, imho. They are not different in every religion or school of thought. Now each religion and school of thought might have different ones, or emphasize specific approaches or ways to show it.
2. I am not Catholic, I just play one on TV. However, I appreciate one of the pillars of their social teachings, “the preferential option for the poor.” The gist of it is that every policy, program, action should keep in mind the plight of the poor and vulnerable. Just like a parent of multiple children might have to poor more attention and resources on a sick child over the others; make decisions based on the one with special requirements. It’s not loving that one more than the others, it’s just catering to a particular challenge.
3. Finally, because why not, immigration could be enforced humanly and ethically. A first step would be to enforce it lawfully. The big next step is to reform our immigration laws.
Well-put. 100% agreed about this being another “love the sinner, not the sin.”
“I’m not a Catholic, I just play one on TV” absolutely sent me, lol.
“I'm not a catholic, I just play one on tv” (obviously not the most important part of your comment, but it made me chuckle)
Someone in my “rouge Christian book club” bought me a sticker that says “empathy is my favorite sin” 😆
Love that
Traditionally, the term "narco-terrorism" has been used to describe people trafficking drugs to fund terrorist activities. The drugs were only a means to an end. I am not sure if the Administration is using it that way and is implying that Venezuela is planning terrorist attacks on the US, or if they are doing their usual thing of playing fast and loose with their words.
Cause they like to sound cool regardless of what the words mean 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
If theology is your thing, check out this blog post about K-pop demon hunters… it’s very cool!
https://churchanew.org/blog/posts/miriam-samuelson-roberts-renouncing-evil-remix-style
I love hearing how you both do life. Adult sleepovers… yes please! That’s on my list for 2026 and y’all gotta hold me to it!
@Beth Silvers -- I (at age 57) watched KPop Demon Hunters all by myself one Saturday. My Girl Scout girls had come in talking and singing and I thought I'd better try to keep up with what they were so obsessed with! I'm happy to tell anyone -- I enjoyed it. And I loved being able to bring up some of the lessons from it the next time the girls were talking about it!
Although it wouldn’t make my list of “favorites” anyone watching South Park this year? Some of that has been spot on.
South Park's poking of the bear has been giving me life this year!
Surprised that the tanker wasn’t discussed at all. Did you record after that? I was hoping for some processing of that news.
On empathy… I care so much about who is being hurt by all of this chaos and devastated by some in my (former) religious community’s mental gymnastics around supporting this administration’s actions. And yet, when charities contact me with requests for money for yet another group in need, I feel exhausted and like I’m reaching a saturation point - Which sounds terrible. I definitely keep going back to “why do we have to convince you to care about people?”
I’m horrified about the bombings of the boats and killing people! And I also wonder what the truth is. Is there so much to care about that people get overwhelmed and instead, just ignore everything?