My easy entry point (that Sarah was asking Beth her opinion on) would be for schools to not allow students to wear pjs daily. My middle school son all of a sudden thinks his pj pants are pants and not pajamas because so many friends wear them to school. I don’t allow him to wear them (unless it’s pj day for spirit week), but I think that small standard sends a message to the kids and their families.
The recurring debate on this show about what people should or should not wear continues to be the most perplexing topic of choice in my Pantsuit Politics experience as an almost-nine-year listener lol. Once? Interesting. Twice? Huh. THRICE? Hahaha it’s so bizarre. Maybe it’s my age/where I fall in the generational break between millennials and Gen Z, maybe it’s my journey from extreme evangelicalism to atheism, maybe it’s the culture shift I experienced that came from moving from the deep south to the southwest desert in my young adulthood..? I don’t know, but every time this comes up I just cannot relate to even being interested in what other people are wearing unless I’m clocking it as inspiration for how I want to dress (for any reason — comfort, style, function, etc.).
I will say that I travel by plane kind of a lot — probably 4-6 times per year — and I think we all have a severe negativity bias about airport/plane behavior. I was traveling last week to visit family and spent time in four different airports. There were some rude people, some self-unaware people, some smelly people, etc., but there were FAR MORE people, like an exponential amount more, who just minded their business and didn’t do or say anything significant enough, positive or negative, to even register on my radar. But of course, who do I remember from my 8+ hours of airport time? The man who glowered at me when I tripped and stumbled slightly into his path, even though I immediately apologized and got out of his way. He was not wearing sweat pants, btw. There are something like 250,000 people who go through ATL every single day, and I remember one of them because he gave me an impatient look. And yes, I’ve seen worse behaviors, I know there’s seat-kicking and back talking to gate agents and crude t-shirts, but there are SO MANY MORE people just making their way through the airport in their outfit of choice, doing their best to get from point A to point B as comfortably as possible in an extremely uncomfortable environment. Why don’t we see that?
As a person who doesn't watch scary movies, I want to recommend to Beth and anyone else in the similar *no scary movies* boat that Sinners is SO GOOD. When I heard the commentary and reaction as it came out, I knew I needed to try watching it. I think it being vampires helped it be more chill than scary to me, tbh.
I’m still pretty young but have a slew of chronic medical problems that mean I’m in some level of pain basically always. Travel is very hard on my body, it wreaks havoc on my joints and i typically end up inflamed and in a flare after. So no thanks, I’m not here for an judgement on my attire during travel—I will take whatever efforts are necessary to minimize the damage on my body and that means finding as many means of comfort as possible.
… HOWEVER, I wish we could agree as a society, as women, that sports bras and bike shorts do not an outfit make? Whatever happened to “no shirt, no shoes, no service?” Underwear has to go…. Ya know… *under* something?
Again, a little late to this episode and comments but I really appreciated this conversation and found myself agreeing with both of you.
I think I personally feel a little more hopeful. The town I’m from has an incredibly vibrant downtown community that promotes small businesses, art, community and history so maybe I’m a little spoiled. I understand the internet/social media aspect side but I see more interesting things in my community and I feel lucky I have it at my fingertips.
As usual, you two have such a knack of tackling topics with lots of nuance and crevices and components. It's really good when you disagree and can show different sides of an issue.
I've got conflicting feelings about the airport "dress code."
1. Planes are definitely not comfortable in classes other than first class!!!
2. Amen to the absolute ridiculousness of anyone from this administration prescribing what is acceptable public behavior. 🙄
3. I don't love seeing PJ pants in public anywhere, but people dress how they desire, can afford, etc., so I try to show grace. The other day at my Dad's senior community, a high school choir performed in individual festive Christmas pajamas. After the pandemic, it's just de rigueur, it seems. I don't wear them in public myself, and I am the only person I have control over.
4. Gross behavior on the plane is not on the same level as wearing PJs. I do see how that relates to prioritizing one's own comfort. I have a friend who social media shames people bringing their lunch on the plane. Yes, be considerate of others, but sometimes you just have to grab a bite and take it on the plane. ⏰
5. When I taught high school in California, they had Grad Night at Disneyland. At that time, they had a pretty strict dress code for it because they had DATA that showed there were fewer behavior problems when students were dressed up, and kids (NO LIE) showed up largely in prom wear. 💃🏻
6. I've flown home a couple of times in recent years feeling less that healthy, and I wore my mask and buried my face in my hoodie and was thankful for my sweats when I was achy.
7. I always think of those shots of celebrities at the airport and do try to look at least chic when I'm traveling, even in sneakers and leggings or other "comfortable" choices.
8. I used to always wear a skirt or nice dress to church, but now I wear jeans just as often. And I'm just fine to see anyone dressed in any way at all as long as they are there. 💒
9. I'm always convicted by the Bible verse "Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it." Hebrews 13:2
Ok no one has brought this up but every time I fly I will see at least one lady in a mini dress wearing sky high heels and I will be like what is your life, it must be different from mine. But seriously, HOW. How can you get through miles of O’Hare with those heels??? This is about the only time I’ve noticed what people are wearing while flying, although admittedly, I fly way less than Sarah does.
I have a work friend who is less than 5' tall. She was always in high heels, and I think it's because she's so short and works with so many men who are of course taller. She just taught herself to live with the heels. She was also the least likely to wear jeans to work probably because she couldn't find any that fit. I never notice what people wear on planes either, but since I only fly to Iowa and back, and I'm usually just looking for U of I and ISU logos on people's hats and shirts to make sure I'm at the right gate.
This made me laugh out loud. Iowan here who mostly only flies to Denver. I'm either looking for Hawkeye gear or Cotopaxi coats. Then I know I'm in the right place.
I just have to gently push back on what Sarah said about clothes on airplanes. For me, clothing makes a huge difference in terms of my well-being. I'm autistic and didn't know until my 30s. When I started working from home and wearing pjs and active wear all the time was when it became apparent how serious my sensory issues were. Now that I don't wear office clothes, on the occasions when I do dress a little nicer I'm highly aware that my wearing those clothes is like a ticking time bomb. For example, I can only wear a normal bra for a few hours before I feel as if it's suffocating me, literally. I couldn't do it on a plane, especially a long flight. I'm not going to wear my pjs, but some yoga pants and a bralette go a long way.
I wear what I call my "dressy" sweatpants every time I fly. Dressy because they are black and have hidden their wear better than the gray pair I got at the same time. I am careful and kind in all my interactions with people, which I think gives me the right to wear whatever comfy clothes I want. You can pry my comfy, casual clothes from my cold, dead hands. 😂
But also add me to the group that has seen much more egregious behavior from people dressed in suits!
I am over all the companies trying to squeeze every single drop out of me as a consumer while simultaneously reducing the quality of their goods in return.
We crave novelty but all companies are busy analyzing data of the things that already exist to maximize profits. There is no risk taking to be truly innovative.
I agree clothing makes a difference.... however, if I have one more ask of me when trying to get out the door with my 4 kids (for any reason - travel or other), I'm just not going.
The world can have my presence in my athletic-leisure leggings (one step above pjs). Or I can stay home and read a book in my actual Pjs. 😅
I am 20 years past onset of menopause at age 52. None of the remedies worked. All gave me morning sickness worse than when I was pregnant. In many ways it was a welcome change. Felt and still feel much better without the ups and downs of menstruation and pregnancy and postpartum. Ladies the best years are ahead.
I think the thing that bothers me about the airport clothing is that it feels like focus on something external and somewhat superficial without focusing on anything real. When I have a patient with depression or anxiety I will tell them that it is true that sleeping well and showering and eating well and being around other people and exercising will help with their mood…..but it won’t help or will help a lot less than if we don’t also treat their depression or anxiety (whether that treatment is meds or therapy.)
I feel like the clothes thing is similar…the whole airport/flight experience and industry is like a sick patient who is being told to put on some lipstick or go for a walk and thinking somehow that is going to fix their major depression.
I’m not sure if someone else popped this in the comments or not, but Anna Wintour weighed in regarding Sean Duffy urging politeness and the President’s comments to a journalist- ‘quiet piggy’ (also on a plane but while wearing a suit!).
Ok, I am late to the game in commenting because I had two papers to write this week but they are finished and I just skimmed through all of the comments and didn't see this take represented.
Sarah gave way too much benefit of the doubt to the secretary of transportation in taking his comments about attire improving behavior at face value. I think she heard something she already agrees with and just went, "Well, I don't like the messenger but finally someone said it." Some evaluation of the messenger is probably warranted however, since someone just pointing out a problem and giving a quick and easy solution with a concrete villain (those who dress sloppy in this case) is how we got Trump as a president. What I couldn't stop thinking about was when Sarah and Beth talked about the disgust Trump had when he had to be driven down some of the poorer parts of New York and how the uber-rich are not used to seeing normal people and are uncomfortable seeing anything that isn't dipped in gold. Why think that this "Golden Age of Travel Starts With You" bullshit isn't coming from a similar place of disgust and contempt?
I also just disagree with Sarah's whole premise as pretty much anytime she opens her mouth about aesthetics I have to roll my eyes because I don't see them as a moral issue like she so obviously does. Should people be allowed to do gross things on planes like clip their toe nails in their seat? Absolutely not. But that has absolutely nothing to do with clothing. And as far as harassment of staff, most of the people I have personally seen doing that have been dolled up to the eyeballs not wearing sweatpants and a hoodie.
Also, to Sarah if you get to be hyperbolic, judgmental, and self-righteous because that's just "who you are" and your are just being true to yourself than the thousands of us who listen have just as much right to tell you off when we hear something we dislike. I thought your response to the pushback of the soda debate was incredibly dismissive and rude to your listeners and I am just anticipating a similar reaction from you here. Why should we be careful of your feelings when you have articulate so clearly that you don't care how your words affect others. You don't owe it to us to agree with every critique we have of you, but this community feels much less safe when there is no accountability for the pain your words inflict on others. To know that our honest expression of that pain will be aired publicly and dismissed so easily while simultaneously making yourself out to be the victim. I expect better from you. And if your team isn't willing to call you out on it I will. At least until my substack subscription ends in February which I will not be renewing. Not specifically do to this issue, I will likely still keep up with the free podcast, I just feel like I end up getting more frustrated with the spicy bonus episode. I guess I don't really like the unfiltered Sarah as much as I thought I would.
Hi. I know that Sarah Stewart Holland can speak for herself and wouldn’t want me to try to speak for her. I also don’t want to leave your comment hanging without a response, Sarah. I guess I want to say that I tried to represent an opposing point of view in this conversation in a way that was strong but not so heated that the conversation was painful to listen to. I have some real soft and shame-y spots around clothing, appearance, food…a lot of the topics that have gotten very hot in our inboxes this year. In all of those discussions, I have tried to balance what is a compelling argument and what is my own stuff to work through. I’m positive I’ve missed more than I hit (I try to remember that in baseball, batting .350 is super-stardom; it still sucks to miss). I have never wanted anything we make to feel rude or dismissive to listeners. It is important to me to say what is true for me, both when it’s a soft landing place and when it’s uncomfortable or obnoxious. I trust SSH as my conversation partner because I know she also holds deep regard and affection for our audience and a commitment to saying what is true to her. What I love about my job is the opportunity to learn in public. I read your comment as a failure to hold my own in the discussion, so I am considering what I can learn from your feedback. I appreciate that you aren’t writing us off entirely, and I hope that what you find on Substack has been valuable even though parts of it have been upsetting.
Beth you are so gracious. Both on the show and in your responses. I would love for Sarah to respond to this post as well. Not to defend herself or her position more fully but to really reckon with the fact that many listeners have felt judged, devalued, and dismissed by her basically since the election. In the in-person monthly meetup group for this show that I am a part of we have all expressed disappointment in her lack of nuance and grace in discussing a variety of topics. I hear her on wanting freedom from the cancel culture and from worrying too much about what this group or that group is going to think that you can never ask questions that get to the the meat of the issue. But that's different than being confronted with feedback from a loyal fan base as a media producer and doubling down on her position and saying that anyone who disagrees is attacking her character.
I appreciate how gentle you (Beth) are with her (Sarah) in the discussions but yes I think more push back from you would potentially help because I do genuinely think it's hard for Sarah to see the other side of things in the heat of the moment when she is so passionate about a topic. And that's not me saying she is a bad person. I can be the same way. But some acknowledgement on her part that there are valid points on the other side of the argument would go along way.
I think the main problem with Sean Duffy asking us to dress better is because it’s super hypocritical and people can smell the bullsh*t. The Trump administration has made an art out of being mean and rude. Actions speak louder than words. Until we have people in power demonstrating kindness, concern for community, care, compassion, etc, it’s more challenging for everyone else.
For the majority of the last 10 years, we have had bullying behavior modeled for us. When the President is a bully, it allows others to believe the behavior is acceptable. We have to break this cycle. There are people who have observed this behavior for years and never seen him experience consequences. Until people in power start calling him, and his administration, out for their bad behavior, it’s going to continue.
I am very thoughtful of trying to model being a good community member every day. I shop locally, smile at strangers, say hello to people I pass on the street, give out random compliments, wave when people let me in when driving. If those in power aren’t going to model good behavior we have to do so.
As for the clothing, I promise you, Sarah, even though I’m going to wear comfortable clothes to the airport, I’ll still exhibit good behavior.
My easy entry point (that Sarah was asking Beth her opinion on) would be for schools to not allow students to wear pjs daily. My middle school son all of a sudden thinks his pj pants are pants and not pajamas because so many friends wear them to school. I don’t allow him to wear them (unless it’s pj day for spirit week), but I think that small standard sends a message to the kids and their families.
The recurring debate on this show about what people should or should not wear continues to be the most perplexing topic of choice in my Pantsuit Politics experience as an almost-nine-year listener lol. Once? Interesting. Twice? Huh. THRICE? Hahaha it’s so bizarre. Maybe it’s my age/where I fall in the generational break between millennials and Gen Z, maybe it’s my journey from extreme evangelicalism to atheism, maybe it’s the culture shift I experienced that came from moving from the deep south to the southwest desert in my young adulthood..? I don’t know, but every time this comes up I just cannot relate to even being interested in what other people are wearing unless I’m clocking it as inspiration for how I want to dress (for any reason — comfort, style, function, etc.).
I will say that I travel by plane kind of a lot — probably 4-6 times per year — and I think we all have a severe negativity bias about airport/plane behavior. I was traveling last week to visit family and spent time in four different airports. There were some rude people, some self-unaware people, some smelly people, etc., but there were FAR MORE people, like an exponential amount more, who just minded their business and didn’t do or say anything significant enough, positive or negative, to even register on my radar. But of course, who do I remember from my 8+ hours of airport time? The man who glowered at me when I tripped and stumbled slightly into his path, even though I immediately apologized and got out of his way. He was not wearing sweat pants, btw. There are something like 250,000 people who go through ATL every single day, and I remember one of them because he gave me an impatient look. And yes, I’ve seen worse behaviors, I know there’s seat-kicking and back talking to gate agents and crude t-shirts, but there are SO MANY MORE people just making their way through the airport in their outfit of choice, doing their best to get from point A to point B as comfortably as possible in an extremely uncomfortable environment. Why don’t we see that?
As a person who doesn't watch scary movies, I want to recommend to Beth and anyone else in the similar *no scary movies* boat that Sinners is SO GOOD. When I heard the commentary and reaction as it came out, I knew I needed to try watching it. I think it being vampires helped it be more chill than scary to me, tbh.
I’m still pretty young but have a slew of chronic medical problems that mean I’m in some level of pain basically always. Travel is very hard on my body, it wreaks havoc on my joints and i typically end up inflamed and in a flare after. So no thanks, I’m not here for an judgement on my attire during travel—I will take whatever efforts are necessary to minimize the damage on my body and that means finding as many means of comfort as possible.
… HOWEVER, I wish we could agree as a society, as women, that sports bras and bike shorts do not an outfit make? Whatever happened to “no shirt, no shoes, no service?” Underwear has to go…. Ya know… *under* something?
Again, a little late to this episode and comments but I really appreciated this conversation and found myself agreeing with both of you.
I think I personally feel a little more hopeful. The town I’m from has an incredibly vibrant downtown community that promotes small businesses, art, community and history so maybe I’m a little spoiled. I understand the internet/social media aspect side but I see more interesting things in my community and I feel lucky I have it at my fingertips.
As usual, you two have such a knack of tackling topics with lots of nuance and crevices and components. It's really good when you disagree and can show different sides of an issue.
I've got conflicting feelings about the airport "dress code."
1. Planes are definitely not comfortable in classes other than first class!!!
2. Amen to the absolute ridiculousness of anyone from this administration prescribing what is acceptable public behavior. 🙄
3. I don't love seeing PJ pants in public anywhere, but people dress how they desire, can afford, etc., so I try to show grace. The other day at my Dad's senior community, a high school choir performed in individual festive Christmas pajamas. After the pandemic, it's just de rigueur, it seems. I don't wear them in public myself, and I am the only person I have control over.
4. Gross behavior on the plane is not on the same level as wearing PJs. I do see how that relates to prioritizing one's own comfort. I have a friend who social media shames people bringing their lunch on the plane. Yes, be considerate of others, but sometimes you just have to grab a bite and take it on the plane. ⏰
5. When I taught high school in California, they had Grad Night at Disneyland. At that time, they had a pretty strict dress code for it because they had DATA that showed there were fewer behavior problems when students were dressed up, and kids (NO LIE) showed up largely in prom wear. 💃🏻
6. I've flown home a couple of times in recent years feeling less that healthy, and I wore my mask and buried my face in my hoodie and was thankful for my sweats when I was achy.
7. I always think of those shots of celebrities at the airport and do try to look at least chic when I'm traveling, even in sneakers and leggings or other "comfortable" choices.
8. I used to always wear a skirt or nice dress to church, but now I wear jeans just as often. And I'm just fine to see anyone dressed in any way at all as long as they are there. 💒
9. I'm always convicted by the Bible verse "Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it." Hebrews 13:2
I will NOT be shamed for eating my Emotional Support Travel Turkey Sandwich on an airplane! Let a girl not be hungry in peace!
Ok no one has brought this up but every time I fly I will see at least one lady in a mini dress wearing sky high heels and I will be like what is your life, it must be different from mine. But seriously, HOW. How can you get through miles of O’Hare with those heels??? This is about the only time I’ve noticed what people are wearing while flying, although admittedly, I fly way less than Sarah does.
I have a work friend who is less than 5' tall. She was always in high heels, and I think it's because she's so short and works with so many men who are of course taller. She just taught herself to live with the heels. She was also the least likely to wear jeans to work probably because she couldn't find any that fit. I never notice what people wear on planes either, but since I only fly to Iowa and back, and I'm usually just looking for U of I and ISU logos on people's hats and shirts to make sure I'm at the right gate.
This made me laugh out loud. Iowan here who mostly only flies to Denver. I'm either looking for Hawkeye gear or Cotopaxi coats. Then I know I'm in the right place.
I just have to gently push back on what Sarah said about clothes on airplanes. For me, clothing makes a huge difference in terms of my well-being. I'm autistic and didn't know until my 30s. When I started working from home and wearing pjs and active wear all the time was when it became apparent how serious my sensory issues were. Now that I don't wear office clothes, on the occasions when I do dress a little nicer I'm highly aware that my wearing those clothes is like a ticking time bomb. For example, I can only wear a normal bra for a few hours before I feel as if it's suffocating me, literally. I couldn't do it on a plane, especially a long flight. I'm not going to wear my pjs, but some yoga pants and a bralette go a long way.
I wear what I call my "dressy" sweatpants every time I fly. Dressy because they are black and have hidden their wear better than the gray pair I got at the same time. I am careful and kind in all my interactions with people, which I think gives me the right to wear whatever comfy clothes I want. You can pry my comfy, casual clothes from my cold, dead hands. 😂
But also add me to the group that has seen much more egregious behavior from people dressed in suits!
I am over all the companies trying to squeeze every single drop out of me as a consumer while simultaneously reducing the quality of their goods in return.
We crave novelty but all companies are busy analyzing data of the things that already exist to maximize profits. There is no risk taking to be truly innovative.
I agree clothing makes a difference.... however, if I have one more ask of me when trying to get out the door with my 4 kids (for any reason - travel or other), I'm just not going.
The world can have my presence in my athletic-leisure leggings (one step above pjs). Or I can stay home and read a book in my actual Pjs. 😅
I am 20 years past onset of menopause at age 52. None of the remedies worked. All gave me morning sickness worse than when I was pregnant. In many ways it was a welcome change. Felt and still feel much better without the ups and downs of menstruation and pregnancy and postpartum. Ladies the best years are ahead.
I think the thing that bothers me about the airport clothing is that it feels like focus on something external and somewhat superficial without focusing on anything real. When I have a patient with depression or anxiety I will tell them that it is true that sleeping well and showering and eating well and being around other people and exercising will help with their mood…..but it won’t help or will help a lot less than if we don’t also treat their depression or anxiety (whether that treatment is meds or therapy.)
I feel like the clothes thing is similar…the whole airport/flight experience and industry is like a sick patient who is being told to put on some lipstick or go for a walk and thinking somehow that is going to fix their major depression.
I’m not sure if someone else popped this in the comments or not, but Anna Wintour weighed in regarding Sean Duffy urging politeness and the President’s comments to a journalist- ‘quiet piggy’ (also on a plane but while wearing a suit!).
https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/5641258-anna-wintour-calls-out-duffy-trump/?utm_social_post_id=619115198&utm_social_handle_id=7533944086&fbclid=IwdGRjcAOmwudleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeDcW9t6XF1o-6hcGYpmM0gA8uVotzcLFzLF3Ert6f4ttA8k47sloSifnvfno_aem_9uRdw1_rfWJlNNmpNBg1rg
Ok, I am late to the game in commenting because I had two papers to write this week but they are finished and I just skimmed through all of the comments and didn't see this take represented.
Sarah gave way too much benefit of the doubt to the secretary of transportation in taking his comments about attire improving behavior at face value. I think she heard something she already agrees with and just went, "Well, I don't like the messenger but finally someone said it." Some evaluation of the messenger is probably warranted however, since someone just pointing out a problem and giving a quick and easy solution with a concrete villain (those who dress sloppy in this case) is how we got Trump as a president. What I couldn't stop thinking about was when Sarah and Beth talked about the disgust Trump had when he had to be driven down some of the poorer parts of New York and how the uber-rich are not used to seeing normal people and are uncomfortable seeing anything that isn't dipped in gold. Why think that this "Golden Age of Travel Starts With You" bullshit isn't coming from a similar place of disgust and contempt?
I also just disagree with Sarah's whole premise as pretty much anytime she opens her mouth about aesthetics I have to roll my eyes because I don't see them as a moral issue like she so obviously does. Should people be allowed to do gross things on planes like clip their toe nails in their seat? Absolutely not. But that has absolutely nothing to do with clothing. And as far as harassment of staff, most of the people I have personally seen doing that have been dolled up to the eyeballs not wearing sweatpants and a hoodie.
Also, to Sarah if you get to be hyperbolic, judgmental, and self-righteous because that's just "who you are" and your are just being true to yourself than the thousands of us who listen have just as much right to tell you off when we hear something we dislike. I thought your response to the pushback of the soda debate was incredibly dismissive and rude to your listeners and I am just anticipating a similar reaction from you here. Why should we be careful of your feelings when you have articulate so clearly that you don't care how your words affect others. You don't owe it to us to agree with every critique we have of you, but this community feels much less safe when there is no accountability for the pain your words inflict on others. To know that our honest expression of that pain will be aired publicly and dismissed so easily while simultaneously making yourself out to be the victim. I expect better from you. And if your team isn't willing to call you out on it I will. At least until my substack subscription ends in February which I will not be renewing. Not specifically do to this issue, I will likely still keep up with the free podcast, I just feel like I end up getting more frustrated with the spicy bonus episode. I guess I don't really like the unfiltered Sarah as much as I thought I would.
Hi. I know that Sarah Stewart Holland can speak for herself and wouldn’t want me to try to speak for her. I also don’t want to leave your comment hanging without a response, Sarah. I guess I want to say that I tried to represent an opposing point of view in this conversation in a way that was strong but not so heated that the conversation was painful to listen to. I have some real soft and shame-y spots around clothing, appearance, food…a lot of the topics that have gotten very hot in our inboxes this year. In all of those discussions, I have tried to balance what is a compelling argument and what is my own stuff to work through. I’m positive I’ve missed more than I hit (I try to remember that in baseball, batting .350 is super-stardom; it still sucks to miss). I have never wanted anything we make to feel rude or dismissive to listeners. It is important to me to say what is true for me, both when it’s a soft landing place and when it’s uncomfortable or obnoxious. I trust SSH as my conversation partner because I know she also holds deep regard and affection for our audience and a commitment to saying what is true to her. What I love about my job is the opportunity to learn in public. I read your comment as a failure to hold my own in the discussion, so I am considering what I can learn from your feedback. I appreciate that you aren’t writing us off entirely, and I hope that what you find on Substack has been valuable even though parts of it have been upsetting.
Beth you are so gracious. Both on the show and in your responses. I would love for Sarah to respond to this post as well. Not to defend herself or her position more fully but to really reckon with the fact that many listeners have felt judged, devalued, and dismissed by her basically since the election. In the in-person monthly meetup group for this show that I am a part of we have all expressed disappointment in her lack of nuance and grace in discussing a variety of topics. I hear her on wanting freedom from the cancel culture and from worrying too much about what this group or that group is going to think that you can never ask questions that get to the the meat of the issue. But that's different than being confronted with feedback from a loyal fan base as a media producer and doubling down on her position and saying that anyone who disagrees is attacking her character.
I appreciate how gentle you (Beth) are with her (Sarah) in the discussions but yes I think more push back from you would potentially help because I do genuinely think it's hard for Sarah to see the other side of things in the heat of the moment when she is so passionate about a topic. And that's not me saying she is a bad person. I can be the same way. But some acknowledgement on her part that there are valid points on the other side of the argument would go along way.
I think the main problem with Sean Duffy asking us to dress better is because it’s super hypocritical and people can smell the bullsh*t. The Trump administration has made an art out of being mean and rude. Actions speak louder than words. Until we have people in power demonstrating kindness, concern for community, care, compassion, etc, it’s more challenging for everyone else.
For the majority of the last 10 years, we have had bullying behavior modeled for us. When the President is a bully, it allows others to believe the behavior is acceptable. We have to break this cycle. There are people who have observed this behavior for years and never seen him experience consequences. Until people in power start calling him, and his administration, out for their bad behavior, it’s going to continue.
I am very thoughtful of trying to model being a good community member every day. I shop locally, smile at strangers, say hello to people I pass on the street, give out random compliments, wave when people let me in when driving. If those in power aren’t going to model good behavior we have to do so.
As for the clothing, I promise you, Sarah, even though I’m going to wear comfortable clothes to the airport, I’ll still exhibit good behavior.
Personally, I'm likely to be better behaved in comfy clothes because I'm not irritable about being uncomfortable.
Same!