I think seeking spiritual guidance is totally fine. I also think that some of what you said was going on behind the scenes with Tulsi doesn't sound like guidance, but like actual suggestions for governance, which is a bit icky but pisses me off less than real-estate nobody Jared Kushner having a seat at all these tables for peace talks. People are gonna people. They want trusted friends and advisors to help them make big decisions so they feel less intimidated and terrified, better prepared, more informed. Doesn't bother me (though the recent administration has picked a lot of fools with no experience). I prefer keeping the practice of religious leaders advising politicians to what they're trying to do now - have the politicians try to also become the religious leaders (lecture the Pope, reinterpret the Bible to justify their wars, etc).
Politicians and faith leaders are basically the same to me. Both groups have about equal amounts of corrupt and power-obsessed individuals vs true values-driven and civic-minded individuals. Because they're groups of flawed humans who have been given power. We roll the dice no matter what. I don't think being a politician should strip anyone of their rights to practice their own religion. I also don't think the popularity of a religion is enough reason to force religious mandates on the rest of the population.
Separation of Church and State is meant to protect peoples' freedom to practice their religion, not to protect the government from having to consider peoples' religious beliefs and values.
AND I am not the least bit surprised that algae took off in a dark shallow pool of still water in direct sunlight in summer surrounded by swamps and rivers and the Chesapeake Bay. Trump is such a freakin' moron. I'm deeply disappointed in all the enablers and supporters who continue to excuse his childish tantrums and terrible ideas.
He blocked a bipartisan housing bill today because he wants his voting act. Seriously idiotic and tone deaf... and they'll defend him again. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STAND UP TO THIS OLD MAN!!! When is enough enough for these people?!
I am currently in training to become a certified spiritual director (I prefer the word companion but that's not the industry standard). As I was listening to this episode, a few things I've learned came to mind.
1. Faith/Beliefs are different than values. I understand that not everyone is the same, but, for me, my values inform my beliefs and even set the standard for what religion I'm willing to practice. That's why my beliefs can change over time. I think that a lot of different religions/faiths share similar values. I think that if you are a politician of faith, you can largely lead from your values while still honoring diverse faith groups and honoring the separation of church and state. I recognize that it isn't always that easy, but I think it's a framework that makes me less jumpy about how religion might find an intersection with politics.
2. Because my training is in spiritual companioning and not as a pastor, the objective is to companion with someone on their spiritual journey. It's a deep witnessing. It's reflecting back to them where they're at and how to trust their experience and find their connection with the divine. It's more of a spiritual midwife. I'm with you and witnessing your birth, and helping to keep you on your journey, but I am not doing the work of birthing. I can't make it go faster, I can't tell you exactly how to do it because your body, baby, needs are different than the next mother I could work with. I can't give you a handbook or a statement of work that gives you the exact terms of the arrangement. The one birthing decides how they want this to go, what is good for their journey and I help her make that happen and then provide guide posts when things don't go as planned. This is a completely different guidance than what you see in the Tulsi Gabbard story.
All that to say, when a political leader has a faith guide who knows them and witnesses their journey and can advise based on that leaders values, then I'm all for it. But when you have a faith leader that's main role is to use a politician or political power to further the beliefs of a particular religion, that's when the flag goes from a yellowish-green to a full on red for me.
Well, I completely missed this Tulsi Gabbard story. Off to learn more. I think people misinterpret the "separation of church and state." Wasn't the First Amendment written to protect the church and practice of religion from the state, not vice versa? I don't have any problem with politicians referring to their religion or getting advice from their religious leaders. (Again, I need to learn more about Gabbard.) But they may face consequences at the ballot box.
This is pretty hyper local to Kansas but I keep finding myself wishing I could hear your insight on our senate primary. Lots of people working to unseat the really awful Roger Marshall, but at the last minute Adam Hamilton entered the dem primary. He’s the pastor of a huge mega church on the KS side of KC. He’s hugely popular!!!! I will def vote for him if he wins the primary but I do not like it. I think he’s legitimately a good guy but 1) why does he think he is more qualified than anyone else? 2) feels kinda gross to have a pastor in the mix even if he is a good guy and 3) can he win people over in western KS where things are soooo different? will they be on board with a guy from a mega church in the big city?
Also his congregants are coming out for him in huge ways on social media with no real reason other than “I love my pastor” and this feels kinda culty.
Anyway love you guys and wish we had a local chapter to really break this down for me!!!!
I was coming here actually to talk about Rev. Hamilton. He is the pastor of the largest United Methodist Church in the entire denomination. He has written a bunch of books that churches around the world use for Bible studies, and has been a grounding voice for a denomination that faced a lot of turmoil in the past few years. I've read almost all his books over the past 10+ years, and I've known pastors that have consulted with him... he's the real deal. His congregation loves him because he is down to earth and has never lost his roots where he came from in his early pastoring days.
Here is some more info on him in an article that speaks directly to the discussion in today's episode.
Hi Drew! Yes—I agree with all of this! He is a positive influence on KC overall and I do agree that he has done really big (& good) things in a massively changing church landscape. I think the UMC is doing some of the best work and I have so many good friends who have been at COR since it opened. If I was going to go back to church it would be on my list of places I would be open to. But none of this is compelling to me that he would be a better senator than anyone else running. “He’s the real deal” is not convincing to me that he’s the BEST choice for THIS role. I do not say that to be dismissive to you at all. I do think he is REALLY good at what he does. But it also feels…not great…that he jumped in at the last minute after exploring an independent run and ultimately decided to run as a Democrat.
Roger Marshall is so, so awful, and I don’t know if Kansas is ready yet to unseat him but man we’re closer than we’ve ever been in my lifetime. And we really need the BEST up against him.
Also, forgive me if I’m bringing baggage here of being in workplaces where a well intentioned white man thinks that HE must be the best choice. I would have loved if he would have sat down and had a forum to boost some of the leading candidates instead of deciding it should be him.
If he wins I will one million percent vote for him. And I think he’d be fine. I just do not love the way it has played out.
I also came straight to the comments after this episode to see if anyone was talking about what is happening in Kansas right now. I'm technically a member of COR, although I haven't attended regularly for years. His church felt like a welcome space for me as someone who was needing a very inclusive church as a new Kansas Citian in my 20's, now almost 30 years ago. Over the years, I've listened to him preach on abortion, separation of church and state, prayer in the public schools, guns, immigration, political divide, the death penalty, LGBTQ+ inclusion, etc. I feel that he addresses all of these issues with grace, love, and an authentic faith. Many on the left have strong feelings about him running as a Democrat because he's been a registered Republican in the past, but I feel like he genuinely wants to play a role in getting our country back to having a functional government. I'm enthusiastic about other candidates in the race as well who frankly align much more closely with my own political views, but I suspect he has the best chance of winning, in part because of his ability to reach across the aisle and appeal to disgruntled voters who are far more moderate than I.
It is so exciting that we (Kansans) actually have a lot of democratic options in multiple races this primary season. I also know that after primaries, people will coalesce around the democratic candidates who win the primaries because we want change so, so badly. Kansas legislature currently has a republican super majority so our democratic governor can only do so much...most democrats in Kansas are aware of how important all these races are this year as our current governor is retiring.
As far as how faith impacts voters...I do think it is a bit weird at how hard Hamilton's congregation is pushing for him. Anytime I have heard someone praise him they use the phrase "real deal" which actually makes that phrase seem fake to me. The praise does seem almost cultish to me at this point...which after dealing with MAGA for 10 years, makes me pause...regardless of who is running. And which church they're affiliated with.
I believe that Hamilton has a sincere faith, and I haven't seen any sign that he is using it as a political tool. I think this hesitation from me, and many, is due to the trauma we have all experienced at the hands of someone who has weaponized Christianity. And that's going to be something we will just have to see play out in the next few weeks. Can he make people who are traumatized by weaponized Christianity feel comfortable with him?
One final point you mentioned, I know that Hamilton was registered republican recently. So was I. For many years in order to have any say in politics at all, I registered republican so I could vote in republican primaries. I don't love Hamilton because I am deep in my "matriarchy should be running our country" feels....but I don't fault him for being registered Republican at one point. Especially with how vocal he has been about a lot of the "hot button" issues.
I think Kansas races are ones to watch this year! It's an exciting time to be a Kansan.
I can’t decide if my blood pressure will withstand this episode because of the inclusion of JD Vance and his pronouncements about faith. I get so angry with that man 🙈🙊🙉
I think seeking spiritual guidance is totally fine. I also think that some of what you said was going on behind the scenes with Tulsi doesn't sound like guidance, but like actual suggestions for governance, which is a bit icky but pisses me off less than real-estate nobody Jared Kushner having a seat at all these tables for peace talks. People are gonna people. They want trusted friends and advisors to help them make big decisions so they feel less intimidated and terrified, better prepared, more informed. Doesn't bother me (though the recent administration has picked a lot of fools with no experience). I prefer keeping the practice of religious leaders advising politicians to what they're trying to do now - have the politicians try to also become the religious leaders (lecture the Pope, reinterpret the Bible to justify their wars, etc).
Politicians and faith leaders are basically the same to me. Both groups have about equal amounts of corrupt and power-obsessed individuals vs true values-driven and civic-minded individuals. Because they're groups of flawed humans who have been given power. We roll the dice no matter what. I don't think being a politician should strip anyone of their rights to practice their own religion. I also don't think the popularity of a religion is enough reason to force religious mandates on the rest of the population.
Separation of Church and State is meant to protect peoples' freedom to practice their religion, not to protect the government from having to consider peoples' religious beliefs and values.
AND I am not the least bit surprised that algae took off in a dark shallow pool of still water in direct sunlight in summer surrounded by swamps and rivers and the Chesapeake Bay. Trump is such a freakin' moron. I'm deeply disappointed in all the enablers and supporters who continue to excuse his childish tantrums and terrible ideas.
He blocked a bipartisan housing bill today because he wants his voting act. Seriously idiotic and tone deaf... and they'll defend him again. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STAND UP TO THIS OLD MAN!!! When is enough enough for these people?!
I am currently in training to become a certified spiritual director (I prefer the word companion but that's not the industry standard). As I was listening to this episode, a few things I've learned came to mind.
1. Faith/Beliefs are different than values. I understand that not everyone is the same, but, for me, my values inform my beliefs and even set the standard for what religion I'm willing to practice. That's why my beliefs can change over time. I think that a lot of different religions/faiths share similar values. I think that if you are a politician of faith, you can largely lead from your values while still honoring diverse faith groups and honoring the separation of church and state. I recognize that it isn't always that easy, but I think it's a framework that makes me less jumpy about how religion might find an intersection with politics.
2. Because my training is in spiritual companioning and not as a pastor, the objective is to companion with someone on their spiritual journey. It's a deep witnessing. It's reflecting back to them where they're at and how to trust their experience and find their connection with the divine. It's more of a spiritual midwife. I'm with you and witnessing your birth, and helping to keep you on your journey, but I am not doing the work of birthing. I can't make it go faster, I can't tell you exactly how to do it because your body, baby, needs are different than the next mother I could work with. I can't give you a handbook or a statement of work that gives you the exact terms of the arrangement. The one birthing decides how they want this to go, what is good for their journey and I help her make that happen and then provide guide posts when things don't go as planned. This is a completely different guidance than what you see in the Tulsi Gabbard story.
All that to say, when a political leader has a faith guide who knows them and witnesses their journey and can advise based on that leaders values, then I'm all for it. But when you have a faith leader that's main role is to use a politician or political power to further the beliefs of a particular religion, that's when the flag goes from a yellowish-green to a full on red for me.
CANNOT WAIT FOR OUR IOWA MURDER MYSTERY PARTY THIS WEEKEND!!!!!
Well, I completely missed this Tulsi Gabbard story. Off to learn more. I think people misinterpret the "separation of church and state." Wasn't the First Amendment written to protect the church and practice of religion from the state, not vice versa? I don't have any problem with politicians referring to their religion or getting advice from their religious leaders. (Again, I need to learn more about Gabbard.) But they may face consequences at the ballot box.
Wasn't the First Amendment written to protect the church and practice of religion from the state, not vice versa? - EXACTLY!
Congratulations on the Washington Post piece! Very proud to be a part of the community you have built ♥️🤍💙
I loved this entire ep!!!
This is pretty hyper local to Kansas but I keep finding myself wishing I could hear your insight on our senate primary. Lots of people working to unseat the really awful Roger Marshall, but at the last minute Adam Hamilton entered the dem primary. He’s the pastor of a huge mega church on the KS side of KC. He’s hugely popular!!!! I will def vote for him if he wins the primary but I do not like it. I think he’s legitimately a good guy but 1) why does he think he is more qualified than anyone else? 2) feels kinda gross to have a pastor in the mix even if he is a good guy and 3) can he win people over in western KS where things are soooo different? will they be on board with a guy from a mega church in the big city?
Also his congregants are coming out for him in huge ways on social media with no real reason other than “I love my pastor” and this feels kinda culty.
Anyway love you guys and wish we had a local chapter to really break this down for me!!!!
I was coming here actually to talk about Rev. Hamilton. He is the pastor of the largest United Methodist Church in the entire denomination. He has written a bunch of books that churches around the world use for Bible studies, and has been a grounding voice for a denomination that faced a lot of turmoil in the past few years. I've read almost all his books over the past 10+ years, and I've known pastors that have consulted with him... he's the real deal. His congregation loves him because he is down to earth and has never lost his roots where he came from in his early pastoring days.
Here is some more info on him in an article that speaks directly to the discussion in today's episode.
(All of this coming from a guy who lives in Ohio)
https://share.google/efARLKz0oh2x3n8Yu
Hi Drew! Yes—I agree with all of this! He is a positive influence on KC overall and I do agree that he has done really big (& good) things in a massively changing church landscape. I think the UMC is doing some of the best work and I have so many good friends who have been at COR since it opened. If I was going to go back to church it would be on my list of places I would be open to. But none of this is compelling to me that he would be a better senator than anyone else running. “He’s the real deal” is not convincing to me that he’s the BEST choice for THIS role. I do not say that to be dismissive to you at all. I do think he is REALLY good at what he does. But it also feels…not great…that he jumped in at the last minute after exploring an independent run and ultimately decided to run as a Democrat.
Roger Marshall is so, so awful, and I don’t know if Kansas is ready yet to unseat him but man we’re closer than we’ve ever been in my lifetime. And we really need the BEST up against him.
Also, forgive me if I’m bringing baggage here of being in workplaces where a well intentioned white man thinks that HE must be the best choice. I would have loved if he would have sat down and had a forum to boost some of the leading candidates instead of deciding it should be him.
If he wins I will one million percent vote for him. And I think he’d be fine. I just do not love the way it has played out.
I also came straight to the comments after this episode to see if anyone was talking about what is happening in Kansas right now. I'm technically a member of COR, although I haven't attended regularly for years. His church felt like a welcome space for me as someone who was needing a very inclusive church as a new Kansas Citian in my 20's, now almost 30 years ago. Over the years, I've listened to him preach on abortion, separation of church and state, prayer in the public schools, guns, immigration, political divide, the death penalty, LGBTQ+ inclusion, etc. I feel that he addresses all of these issues with grace, love, and an authentic faith. Many on the left have strong feelings about him running as a Democrat because he's been a registered Republican in the past, but I feel like he genuinely wants to play a role in getting our country back to having a functional government. I'm enthusiastic about other candidates in the race as well who frankly align much more closely with my own political views, but I suspect he has the best chance of winning, in part because of his ability to reach across the aisle and appeal to disgruntled voters who are far more moderate than I.
It is so exciting that we (Kansans) actually have a lot of democratic options in multiple races this primary season. I also know that after primaries, people will coalesce around the democratic candidates who win the primaries because we want change so, so badly. Kansas legislature currently has a republican super majority so our democratic governor can only do so much...most democrats in Kansas are aware of how important all these races are this year as our current governor is retiring.
As far as how faith impacts voters...I do think it is a bit weird at how hard Hamilton's congregation is pushing for him. Anytime I have heard someone praise him they use the phrase "real deal" which actually makes that phrase seem fake to me. The praise does seem almost cultish to me at this point...which after dealing with MAGA for 10 years, makes me pause...regardless of who is running. And which church they're affiliated with.
I believe that Hamilton has a sincere faith, and I haven't seen any sign that he is using it as a political tool. I think this hesitation from me, and many, is due to the trauma we have all experienced at the hands of someone who has weaponized Christianity. And that's going to be something we will just have to see play out in the next few weeks. Can he make people who are traumatized by weaponized Christianity feel comfortable with him?
One final point you mentioned, I know that Hamilton was registered republican recently. So was I. For many years in order to have any say in politics at all, I registered republican so I could vote in republican primaries. I don't love Hamilton because I am deep in my "matriarchy should be running our country" feels....but I don't fault him for being registered Republican at one point. Especially with how vocal he has been about a lot of the "hot button" issues.
I think Kansas races are ones to watch this year! It's an exciting time to be a Kansan.
The ducks are dying now…continues to be an apt metaphor
Rewatching the Sopranos— the ducks hit hard
I can’t decide if my blood pressure will withstand this episode because of the inclusion of JD Vance and his pronouncements about faith. I get so angry with that man 🙈🙊🙉
So proud of you both for what you’ve built and glad to be a part of it!!!