It's Not That They Know Too Much

What kids actually need when the news is scary

When the news is scary (and that’s...a lot more often than we’d prefer), we’re often asked how to discuss it with kids. Today, Tracy Kaplan is here to share her thinking, which she’s developed over 6 years as the creator of The 10 News, a podcast for kids and families ages 8-12. Tracy talks about how the fear for kids often lies in what they don’t understand. Today’s conversation between Tracy and Sarah gives us a roadmap for figuring out when and how much to explain.

Topics Discussed

• Why kids' anxiety about the news is often rooted in a knowledge gap, not the news itself

• How The 10 News covers scary topics like school shootings — and why vagueness can be worse than directness

• What kids actually want to know more about (spoiler: more politics, not less)

• How to cover hard stories without being condescending

• The shift toward more international coverage over six years

• What it looks like to watch a generation of kids grow up through the news

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Episode Resources

The Ten News

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Sarah: This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

[00:00:10] Beth: This is Beth Silvers. You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. If you have ever stared at a news alert and had absolutely no idea how to explain it to a child, this episode is for you. Tracy Kaplan is the creator and executive producer of The Ten News, a podcast for kids and families ages 8 to 12, that has been doing the work of explaining the world to kids since 2020. And what Tracy has learned in six years really mirrors our experiences. Kids’ anxiety about the news is often rooted not in the news itself, but in a knowledge gap. They’re not scared because they know too much, they’re scared because they don’t know enough. Tracy is here with Sarah to share more. And Outside of Politics, we’re going to talk about summer camp and our personal experiences there. Speaking of a knowledge gap and what makes you anxious.

[00:00:56] Sarah: Before we get started, if coming to our Minneapolis live show isn’t in the cards for you this August, join us from the comfort of your couch on your own time. You can watch our show live on August 29th or when it’s convenient for you. Bring a friend for half the price when you buy your ticket. All the details are in the show notes. Tracy Kaplan, welcome to Pantsuit Politics.

[00:01:26] Tracy Kaplan: Thank you. I’m really excited to be here.

[00:01:28] Sarah: Now, you’re here because we’re going to talk about a parentally interesting topic here, which is kids and the news. How do we talk about kids and the news? What do we tell kids about the news? When kids have anxiety about the news, how do we deal with all that? So tell us why you have some expertise in this area.

[00:01:44] Tracy Kaplan: As most parents, this does keep me up at night, but maybe in a different way than a lot of parents because I’m thinking about how to put it together in a podcast. So I’m the creator and executive producer of The Ten News, which is a kids podcast for kids and families 8 to 12, and I started it in September of 2020. So we’re going into our sixth year. So I’ve been thinking about this for a while and put together a really amazing team of people who really are spending hours, days, weeks looking at all the news that we’re all looking at it, but through the lens of what would a kid be thinking about. So when I see a headline, yes, I’m consuming it myself, and maybe it’s making me anxious as a human, as a parent, but I’m also thinking about it in the sense of what if my kid just saw that on my phone, what if my kid just saw the Apple News pop up, and how would they interpret that?

[00:02:45] Sarah: I think the key component, first of all, is the 8 to 10. I always say when you say kids, do you mean little kids, elementary, middle high school, college?

[00:02:53] Tracy Kaplan: Yeah, 8 to 12.

[00:02:53] Sarah: But I think that’s the problem. People think you have to have one way to do this. It really matters on what age kid you’re talking about because I think so much of what you’re often talking about is a knowledge gap. I think we go right to the anxiety, but sometimes the anxiety is founded in a lack of knowledge. So how do you think about that at the 10?

[00:03:12] Tracy Kaplan: Oh, exactly. That’s exactly how I think about it. I’m always thinking about we’re always telling our kids what to do, what to eat, do your homework, and they are just seeking out control, right? They’re pushing boundaries. They’re trying to figure out who they are. So I take the same approach when I’m working with my team on the news. A good example of this is when the Ukraine war broke out, when Russia invaded Ukraine. All of a sudden, there are all these terms being flown about, economic sanctions, NATO. As an adult, I was even wondering why is it now Kyiv instead of “Kiev”? I grew up with the pronunciation being “Kiev”, and now all the reporters are saying Kyiv, and CNN’s not going to take a minute to explain that, but The Ten News is. So really thinking about what are the terms. What’s a way that we can give a kid who’s hearing all this stuff enough control that they can say, “Hey, I have a question,” because they’re brimming with questions, right? We always know that with a lot of our kids, that they’re overflowing with questions. And so giving them just that little bit of control so that they can come to you with a question from a place of, “Okay, I know this, but can you help me understand this other part,” Mom, Dad, trusted guardian, whoever it is, just giving them that step up in the conversation.

[00:04:33] Sarah: Here’s my next question because I think as an adult the other way I cope with anxiety, I think a lot of us do, is just through the lens of partisanship. So we just decide I’m on the good team here. You’re on the bad team. I’m assuming that’s not something you can lean on or don’t want to lean on at The Ten, and teaching kids like the answer here is to make sure you’re on the right team, kids. So how do you handle that sort of approach to analysis?

[00:04:56] Tracy Kaplan: We do really try to just lay out what’s happening, with the exception of the show does have a strong sense of values and moral core, I will say. That was something I got great advice when I started from Soledad O’Brien, the amazing journalist, and I was tying myself in knots because there were just things that were happening on all sides where I was like, “Do I need to two sides everything? And what if I just truly don’t believe that the other side is correct from an ethical and moral standpoint?” And she said it’s really important to set your point of view and stick to it. And so I’ve really taken that to heart. We do certainly will share but always in the context of experts say or this is what the administration is saying. So we make sure to always source where the things are coming from, so then we’re not saying, “This is our side. You should pick this side.” We’re really saying “Here’s what’s being said,” but we will be extremely upfront of when we feel like something is wrong or hurtful

[00:06:01] Sarah: Yeah. What do you do when it’s just scary? Like, when it’s a very violent situation, a school shooting, that it’s a news item that affects kids, and it’s really scary.

[00:06:13] Tracy Kaplan: So those are the really hard times and that’s really when we’re also thinking about the adults and what needs to be shared for them to be able to have a good conversation with their kids and really thinking about what’s age-appropriate because you don’t want to go into all the gory details, but you also don’t want to be super vague because being super vague can actually be scarier than laying out what happened. So again, we try to be very direct. When we are covering a topic like that, we’ll add a little note at the top of the episode or in our show notes to say, “Hey, we’re talking about a difficult topic today. This may be one that you really want to make sure that you’re with a grown-up to listen through.” And then for the first time, I think it was two years ago-- it could’ve been three as we’re going into our sixth year-- we did a two-parter on gun violence, and it was the first time that we did an episode very specifically for the adults to listen to as a primer before the next episode, which was then for everyone. And I hate to say that kind of has become an evergreen episode now because this doesn’t seem to be stopping. So I’m happy that we have it there as a resource. I really wish on all of my being that it didn’t need to be there as a resource.

[00:07:46] Sarah: There’s the topics that we know are hard. What have you found to be, like, surprisingly impactful or a positive news story that hit in a way you didn’t expect or maybe a policy issue or a topic that you didn’t understand or realize that kids were really focused on?

[00:08:04] Tracy Kaplan: I will say, in general, kids really want to know more and more of what’s going on in the political space. I think there’s a tendency to shy away from it. But when I look at our podcast reviews, which is probably the most fun way that we engage with our audience, seeing so many kids who are saying “Okay, great, we love the Nintendo episode,” because I also love the Nintendo episodes, “but we want more politics.” They don’t want to be shut out of the conversations that are happening. And then I think the one that was the most impactful that also just reminded me that to take the time to do more episodes really focusing on what kids are dealing with day in and day out we did an episode on food allergies, and had a lot of listener reaction to that of thanking us. A kid who was living with celiac who wrote in. So just a reminder too of, okay, thinking about the things that are very micro in kids’ lives, not always focusing on the macro.

[00:09:01] Sarah: Yeah, that’s so true. How many or how often do you focus on like education and topics of schooling? That feels like something kids would want to talk a lot about. Or maybe not because they’re in school and all that.

[00:09:10] Tracy Kaplan: Yeah, exactly. They’re in it, and a lot of teachers are using the show in their classrooms. Certainly when there’s any kind of policies or laws that are affecting education, we talk a lot about what’s happening around banned books and what legislation is happening in that realm. So we do a lot of that. And then actually an episode we did at the end of the year last year that also got a lot of great feedback was we did an episode on screen time. And I have to say, sometimes those episodes are harder than tough news because I never want to be condescending to our listeners. So finding that line of talking about technology, talking about the good, the bad, the ugly, and being honest about how technology affects brains and affects all of our brains and doing it in a way that kids aren’t just going to turn it off and be like... oh, yeah. So I did it through a partnership with a group called the Take Two Media Initiative. It’s a group out of New York, and they had teenagers who act as media ambassadors, and they came on the podcast. That’s another little trick that I have is when there’s something that I feel like there’s a danger that my listeners will get turned off with it coming from an adult, I find some wonderful, smart teens and tween to share their experiences.

[00:10:33] Sarah: Love it. What do you feel has shifted the most? So six years is a long time to be doing something like this. In the coverage itself that you’ve noticed, because I find when you come at news coverage with a specific angle, like I’ve noticed a lot with good news, when I’m looking specifically for good news, I notice trends and shifts almost more easily than when I’m just, gathering the headlines. So from this very unique perspective of looking out for young kids, what have you noticed that shifted in the coverage over the last six years?

[00:11:05] Tracy Kaplan: I would say we’ve gotten more fearless in terms of what we do cover, and we’ve also gotten more international. Definitely a conscious shift of more events happening around the world. And I will say again, that’s where I follow the guide of our listeners, and it helps me not get caught up in the news cycle where things will be in the news for 15 minutes and then they’re gone. So coming back to the Ukraine war, kids would write in and say, “What’s going on in Ukraine? What’s the latest?” And it was a great kind of guide and push for me to be like, yeah, they’re right. Actually we’ve moved on and we haven’t come back to this thing that is still happening, unfortunately, and very damaging to the folks in the Ukraine. So I would say that’s the biggest shift is more international, not being afraid of covering tough stories, and also being much more mindful about coming back to stories.

[00:12:05] Sarah: Yeah. Over six years you’re doing 8 to 12, you’ve had kids come in and graduate, basically, from the news. Have you seen any sort of micro-generational shifts or heard from those kids who’ve maybe listened the whole time?

[00:12:20] Tracy Kaplan: I now have an intern who was one of our very first interview subjects on the podcast.

[00:12:26] Sarah: Oh my gosh. Wow.

[00:12:29] Tracy Kaplan: So she is now in high school. She’s going to love that I’m calling her out here. Hi, Sasha. And she was one of our very first interview subjects because she was in Italy when COVID hit and went through that experience and when I started the show, we interviewed her, and she was only 10 at the time. And now she’s 16 and reached out about a week ago and sent a very lovely note about how she’s really interested in podcasting and interested in what we’ve been doing with the show. And so, of course, I welcomed her. I had to have her be our very first intern, actually. For all the other Teners, we call them Teners, if there’s any Teners listening to this we’re available for more interns. But that’s been the most wonderful thing, is actually seeing we’ve had a couple of kid correspondents over the years and just seeing them grow up and being able to stay... I always say once you’re involved with the 10 News, you’re always part of The Ten News family, if you’ve been a guest or a correspondent. And so it’s nice to see them grow up and then have a different perspective on things.

[00:13:34] Sarah: I love that. I think it’s just a really important expertise and perspective you bring because as a parent I think it can feel like a lot of things with parenting. Like you’re in the deep end, then they move on. You’re in the deep end, you move on. So it’s helpful to hear from someone who’s doing this day in, day out. How do I communicate this? What am I focused on? What questions am I trying to answer? So I just think that’s a really great, important reminder. So thank you for coming on and talking to us about all of this.

[00:13:59] Tracy Kaplan: Thank you. No I love your show and what you all are doing. Oh, and there’s my cat in the back.

[00:14:03] Sarah: I know. That’s hilarious. I love it.

[00:14:06] Tracy Kaplan: She’s The Ten News studio cat. We call her The Ten News studio cat.

[00:14:08] Sarah: I have my studio dog at my feet right now. Thank you again. Thank you so much.

[00:14:12] Tracy Kaplan: All right. Thank you, Sarah.

[00:14:24] Beth: Sarah, I love this conversation that you had with Tracy. I love thinking about how to make our kids less anxious. Making kids less anxious would’ve been really valuable to me the first time I went to summer camp. I did not handle it well.

[00:14:38] Sarah: You didn’t?

[00:14:40] Beth: It’s an embarrassing story. I went off to summer camp with my church, Camp Schaefer.

[00:14:46] Sarah: Also went to church camp.

[00:14:47] Beth: And the counselors were all college students. I didn’t really know a lot of people, but my pastor was there, Brother Tim, who I loved. And on Wednesday, Brother Tim was going to drive back to our home church to lead Wednesday night prayer meeting, and I told Brother Tim that I would be going back with him because I did not like church camp. So I packed all of my things, and I rode back to church with Brother Tim, and I got there and I said, “Hey, Mom and Dad, I’m home.” And they said, “You are not.” And they put me back in the car with Brother Tim to head back to Camp Schaefer as soon as Wednesday night prayer meeting was over, and I did finish the week. Good on them.

[00:15:24] Sarah: That was the right thing for them to do, for sure. Yeah.

[00:15:25] Beth: It was 100% the right thing for them to do.

[00:15:28] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:15:28] Beth: But it took me a couple decades to appreciate that. Is

[00:15:31] Sarah: Is that the only camp you ever went to?

[00:15:35] Beth: I believe that was the end of my overnight camping experiences. I did a bunch of day camps other than that, but no, I did not find my groove at sleep-away camp. Which is why I have insisted that my daughters find their groove at sleep-away camp. It is a hole in my life experience.

[00:15:49] Sarah: I missed a lot of summer experiences because my parents were divorced, and I spent the whole summer as a child in California. Now, it has made me 30% Californian, which I appreciate. But I was gone for the whole summer when I was little because that was, like, my dad’s the custody agreement or whatever. So there were no camps in elementary school. I think I went to Girl Scout camp once. I very barely remember it. Then when I got into middle school and high school I wanted to go with my friends to church camp. My most embarrassing church camp story, I make fun of my friend Reagan for this. She’s a lovely person. She’s not mean, but this was just one of our interactions where she bullied me at church camp. I got there, and there were, like, glass shelves above the sink, and so I set out all my toiletries, and she was like, “Everybody, come look what Sarah did.” I didn’t know you’re supposed to carry them in and out every time. I still vividly remember that. But we went to that one. I remember and have a photo of the very hot lifeguard that we were all obsessed with at that church camp. We went to Centrifuge a couple years, maybe one or two years in North Carolina. We did one in Panama City. So I went to a lot of church camps in middle school and high school.

[00:16:47] Beth: I went to Centrifuge too, which I had totally forgotten until you said the word. And then I could see my sweatshirt from Centrifuge in my mind. And I did it in Panama city too with another church.

[00:16:55] Sarah:  See, there you go. See, you went. I loved it. I thought it was so fun. Truly my first regret is that I was not born Jewish in the 1950s, because I would’ve rocked those freakin’ Adirondack camps so hard. Like the ones in Dirty Dancing and Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Oh my God, where you got dressed up, and there’s a schedule of activities. Designed for me. And so I have really tried to give my children the experience that I missed. I really wanted the experience of going all the way through. So Felix goes to Camp Sweeney because the number one piece of advice when he was diagnosed with diabetes, was like, “Get him in a diabetes camp.” This is an 18-day camp he’d stay all summer if I let him or could afford it, but he goes to Sweeney, and he started at eight, and he will go until he graduates from high school. So he loves it. And then my two boys actually go to a camp right down the road from your house, Camp Ernst, a YMCA camp, and this is the first year that Amos has progressed out of camper. So they were campers for several years. They didn’t quite start as young as I wish they’d had. We tried out some other camps. But now they’ve both been going to Camp Ernst, gosh, like four or five years maybe?

[00:18:03] Beth: I was thinking four years.

[00:18:04] Sarah: Yeah, Griffin is now a full counselor, so he’s worked his way up. This is Amos’ first year. He’ll be crew, which basically means you do the dishes. And they work their way up. I love that they go to this place. I remember listening to that freaking This American Life that they did on summer camp and being so jealous and wanting that experience for my kid, where they go back to the same place every summer, and it’s their place also. Did you ever watch the movie Indian Summer in the ‘90s about the people who come back to their summer? I was obsessed with that movie.

[00:18:29] Beth: I don’t know that one.

[00:18:29] Sarah: I watched it again recently, and it holds up decently well for the record. But I am sad I did not get that camp experience growing up, for sure.

[00:18:36] Beth: Yeah, I wish that I had toughened up a little bit. I spent an enormous amount of time with my mom. And I think that I just did not want to be away from my mom. I remember her dropping me off at a day camp when I was in maybe older elementary school and thinking “What is the meaning of this? Like, why are you leaving and I’m staying? What is the point here?”

[00:18:56] Sarah: This is really a divergence in our life experience because my mom put my happy ass on an airplane by myself I think at eight. I went with my grandmother a few times at the beginning, and then I would fly by myself from Kentucky to California and spend the whole summer there.

[00:19:12] Beth: My mom was a teacher in my school. We rode together going and coming. She was my academic team coach. She was my teacher for several years. I was just with my mom all the time, and so these experiences without my mom, I just was like, “I don’t understand what’s supposed to be happening here.” Hilariously, I wanted this camp experience that your sons are having near me for my daughters because I remember when we were in college, people from northern Kentucky talking about this particular camp and how wonderful it was. So I sent my daughters, and they did hate it, and Jane did call every day begging to come home. And I didn’t let her.

[00:19:43] Sarah: She did. I was there.

[00:19:45] Beth: But it was very difficult for all of us. But then I sent her the next summer to church camp, which is so much like Camp Schaefer, I can’t even tell you. It’s very much like the place that I did not want to be, and they both love it there. I think a key difference is that all of the counselors there are fully grown adults, like parents and grandparents aged people, and they love the counselors as much as the other kids there. It’s really small. They just do a great job. And so my kids are getting that experience. When I dropped Jane off this summer, she said, “Mom, I’m in Pierre again. I’ve been in Pierre, the cabin, five years in a row now.” They are loving it.

[00:20:22] Sarah: Love it. I love a summer camp. I want to hear about all of y’all’s kids’ summer camp experience, about your own summer camp experiences. I want to see if there’s any good adult summer camps. I will go to one of those. I’m into that business model. If someone has found one that they really like, I’m into it.

[00:20:40] Beth: Yeah, for sure

[00:20:40] Sarah: So we can’t wait to talk about all things summer camp with all of you.

[00:20:43] Beth: Thank you to Tracy Kaplan. Thank you, Sarah, for that conversation you had with Tracy. Thank you all for joining us today. We will be back with you on Tuesday with another new episode of Pantsuit Politics. Until then, have the best weekend available to you.

Show Credits

Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.

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