Okay one more thing, this is on “adding friction”. Yes! … AND maybe we should not just add friction to avoid the undesired thing, but also reduce friction to achieve the desired thing. But we as human being creatures are really really good at developing process “workarounds” (logistical workarounds AND emotional workarounds/avoidances/justifications), even for barriers that we set up for ourselves. I am a medical professional, and stole this concept from something we do called process improvement (aside … it has its downsides, including potentially treating people like robots, but it’s not black/white all bad). Process improvement is in many other fields too, and medicine actually stole it from them. It is also a concept adjacent to addiction medicine (which a lot of our overconsumption and tech use is using addiction neural pathways, but I digress!). Anyway the concept is “make the right way the easy way” is very powerful, not just “make the wrong way harder to do”. Making the right way easy is one of the best ways to quickly and long-term change human behavior especially in our immediate gratification-tuned minds (as sad as that is).
My wife and I are now examine the processes in our lives where we can do this and it’s kind of fun. Our overarching outcome being less time interacting with our phones. And there are SO many when you really sit down to notice.
Sarah - maybe someone answered this already but for the phone camera issue. If the camera is THAT much better bc of all the processing etc and it brings you joy … then buy a jailbroken or refurbished iphone and use its camera! Or one of your family’s devices once they upgrade. That way you’re not connected to the internet at least by cell. But you also have to leave its WiFi off, not download other apps, etc except to upload photos (hardest part).
Reminds me of that brief period of time when I had an iPod touch. 2010’s throwback …
In addition to the conversation about over consumption, something that really stuck out to me was around friction. One of the things I have noticed about being out in public is that people are not nearly as aware of themselves or their surroundings anymore. Being polite and considerate of others in a public space does not seem to be the norm. Perfect example - having a conversation either on speaker or face time while shopping! Another example, being at the theater or a movie and people talking or getting up and blocking others. Simple common courtesies no longer exist. It is for this reason that I find friction less and less tolerable. I would like to find more opportunities to be in public, as a bit of friction I agree is good, but I am about over rude and inconsiderate people.
I'm late to the discussion, but I have so many thoughts that I'll try to condense.
First, thank you so much for mentioning me as someone you all trust as an "influencer." I respect you both immensely and consider this to be the best compliment. It also means a lot because I have wrangled with this icky feeling of overconsumption for a while and still don't know what the answer is. How can I continue to show up and provide value without making people think that they *need* what I share? I started out in this space over 15 years ago as a blogger, and the rapid morphing of influencer culture regularly gives me whiplash. Being online at first was about sharing bits of myself online to find community, and now influencer culture feels a little like it's pushing people to be clones. (Not literally, but you get it.)
The way people are connecting with other people online has also changed. Instead of looking to others online for community, people seem to be consuming them as they would products. There are very few limits on what some people will comment or DM me. Some ask for recommendations or advice without saying "hi" first - almost like someone is querying me like they would Google. And people want links for things without reading the caption where I've already tagged it or without clicking a link in my bio. I understand the automated DMs (comment XYZ to get a link) seem impersonal, but it's part of the frictionless experience that many consumers expect. I love talking to people and forming connections, but I don't like being a link factory. Even on posts that I make that reference zero products or brands, I'll inevitably get a request for a link to something. I don't say this to complain but to point out that people are consuming and digesting content much differently than before.
I also work in social media marketing, and the ick is there as well. It's an endless race to stay top-of-mind with customers, which involves paying a lot to social media networks and creating awful end-user experiences. Small businesses compete with huge VC-backed companies, shein/temu/alibaba knockoffs, and retail conglomerates, and it feels like a race as to who can spend the most money on ads the fastest. We'll then try to turn to influencers to get our products mentioned, but that involves more money as well from product samples, fees, and commissions... only to have social networks limit the reach of those influencers' posts in favor of companies who will pay them money. I don't know how we're going to get off the hamster wheel.
I really appreciated this episode and know I'll continue to think about it.
Been doing a lot of thinking about this episode. I definitely plan to delete shopping apps from my phone after the holidays. Also every year I unsubscribe from all the endless emails I get from brands. This year I started early. Also I’m making it a goal for the New Year to shop locally whenever possible. Having to leave my house is a huge barrier for me on spending.
🙋🏼♀️ I left Twitter 2+ years ago. Facebook 1.5 years ago. Instagram almost 1 year ago.
And while I miss out occasionally on things posted and not communicated in other places, I feel so much freedom and won’t go back. I take pictures without thinking already about what the caption could be. If I take a pic and want to share it, I think “who do I want to see this pic?” and then directly text it to them.
I just started reading The Serviceberry by Robin wall kimmerer. I'm a few pages in and it seems so relevant. "Recognizing 'enoughness' is a radical act in an economy that is always urging us to consume more." "Ecopsychologists have shown that the practice of gratitude puts brakes on hyperconsumption." " Climate catastrophe and biodiversity loss are the consequences of unrestrained taking by humans. Might cultivation of gratitude be part of the solution?"
Also - this episode prompted me to text my husband “we got the boys enough for Christmas - we need to be done shopping.” Though I was thrilled my dad got my older son a bike at goodwill and we scored a scooter from our local Buy Nothing Facebook group. Highly recommend finding your local Buy Nothing group! We have gifted and received so many things here - clothes, kitchen supplies, kids toys, books, furniture… it’s amazing!
I had a realization two summers ago when we spent 9 weeks in a remote part of Maine while our house was undergoing a renovation: when everything is harder, somehow life feels easier. We have no dishwasher, we can’t drink from the faucet (water comes from the lake), so we drive a couple miles to the freshwater spring. Wal-mart is an hour away. Amazon does not deliver to our dirt road (I found out this past summer they actually do but will not let those floodgates open). Our kids played with sticks and rocks and swam in the lake. We just made due, but it didn’t feel like a sacrifice; it felt refreshing. It was the first time we spent so much time in a remote area (we typically vacation there 3-5 weeks), and life felt so simple yet so full. Those 9 weeks did help us break our Amazon habit, though two years later it’s slowly creeping back. No earth shattering thoughts, but consumption is a habit like anything else and breaking it takes concerted effort.
Loved this conversation and the comments here. Wanted to share a Ten Percent Happier episode recently dropped with Robin Wall Kimmerer. I think it fits nicely with overconsumption, our increased wealth gap, and even the “morality” pieces all threading in this week’s podcasts. Can’t recommend the episode highly enough. I’ll be reading her book that’s referenced over the holidays I found it so timely and thoughtful.
Has anyone else listened to the new Rick Steves interview on The Daily?! SO good and on-topic. It’s perfectly parallel with Pantsuit Politics this week (Lulu Garcia-Navarro does it again with a killer interview). She and Rick hit on SO many of the same ideas about consumption and travel that Sarah and Beth touched on recently. Also, Rick discusses the sliding doors moment of his life as S&B talked about a few days ago, too. Lots of overlap.
I feel like I would be remiss in my duties as Sarah and Beth’s hype person if I didn’t take this opportunity to mention that Rick Steves has been on Pantsuit Politics TWICE (!!!!) and he is the best.
I haven’t listened yet but here is a thought I’ve had over the last week while in Japan. They consume a lot there. They also do it the way we did it back in the 80s. Out at physical stores, shopping amongst the people in busy malls and department stores. They had stationery departments in a lot of the major department stores I shopped in. It made me long for THAT kind of consumption. The experience kind.
I had so many thoughts and comments listening to this episode and reading through the comments here I seem to be in good company.
I have real anxiety about the amount of stuff in the world. Like it makes my heart race and I feel physically sick if I think about it. So I don't. It's so easy to over consume. I've been reminded of how much stuff we have as we made 6 cross country/international moves in the past 20 years.
I also wonder if having a private IG account keeps it manageable for me. I mostly follow only people I know in real life and have muted or unfollowed people who I notice make me feel like I need to buy stuff.
One influencer I really like is Style Thief Fashion. She's been a great encourager for finding your style with what you have in your closet.
I just signed up for Nuuly and so far I really like the model service. You pay a monthly fee to rent 6 pieces and you can purchase something if you want but you don't have to. I think it will be a great way to try trends in a sustainable way.
I squealed when I heard you talk about authentically emmie, I’ve followed her since google reader. But, Of course you know her, she’s in Kentucky too!
Okay one more thing, this is on “adding friction”. Yes! … AND maybe we should not just add friction to avoid the undesired thing, but also reduce friction to achieve the desired thing. But we as human being creatures are really really good at developing process “workarounds” (logistical workarounds AND emotional workarounds/avoidances/justifications), even for barriers that we set up for ourselves. I am a medical professional, and stole this concept from something we do called process improvement (aside … it has its downsides, including potentially treating people like robots, but it’s not black/white all bad). Process improvement is in many other fields too, and medicine actually stole it from them. It is also a concept adjacent to addiction medicine (which a lot of our overconsumption and tech use is using addiction neural pathways, but I digress!). Anyway the concept is “make the right way the easy way” is very powerful, not just “make the wrong way harder to do”. Making the right way easy is one of the best ways to quickly and long-term change human behavior especially in our immediate gratification-tuned minds (as sad as that is).
My wife and I are now examine the processes in our lives where we can do this and it’s kind of fun. Our overarching outcome being less time interacting with our phones. And there are SO many when you really sit down to notice.
Sarah - maybe someone answered this already but for the phone camera issue. If the camera is THAT much better bc of all the processing etc and it brings you joy … then buy a jailbroken or refurbished iphone and use its camera! Or one of your family’s devices once they upgrade. That way you’re not connected to the internet at least by cell. But you also have to leave its WiFi off, not download other apps, etc except to upload photos (hardest part).
Reminds me of that brief period of time when I had an iPod touch. 2010’s throwback …
I have followed Katy's blog for over a decade. I'm not as dedicated as her, but I hear her voice in my head when making consumer related decisions.
https://thenonconsumeradvocate.com
In addition to the conversation about over consumption, something that really stuck out to me was around friction. One of the things I have noticed about being out in public is that people are not nearly as aware of themselves or their surroundings anymore. Being polite and considerate of others in a public space does not seem to be the norm. Perfect example - having a conversation either on speaker or face time while shopping! Another example, being at the theater or a movie and people talking or getting up and blocking others. Simple common courtesies no longer exist. It is for this reason that I find friction less and less tolerable. I would like to find more opportunities to be in public, as a bit of friction I agree is good, but I am about over rude and inconsiderate people.
I'm late to the discussion, but I have so many thoughts that I'll try to condense.
First, thank you so much for mentioning me as someone you all trust as an "influencer." I respect you both immensely and consider this to be the best compliment. It also means a lot because I have wrangled with this icky feeling of overconsumption for a while and still don't know what the answer is. How can I continue to show up and provide value without making people think that they *need* what I share? I started out in this space over 15 years ago as a blogger, and the rapid morphing of influencer culture regularly gives me whiplash. Being online at first was about sharing bits of myself online to find community, and now influencer culture feels a little like it's pushing people to be clones. (Not literally, but you get it.)
The way people are connecting with other people online has also changed. Instead of looking to others online for community, people seem to be consuming them as they would products. There are very few limits on what some people will comment or DM me. Some ask for recommendations or advice without saying "hi" first - almost like someone is querying me like they would Google. And people want links for things without reading the caption where I've already tagged it or without clicking a link in my bio. I understand the automated DMs (comment XYZ to get a link) seem impersonal, but it's part of the frictionless experience that many consumers expect. I love talking to people and forming connections, but I don't like being a link factory. Even on posts that I make that reference zero products or brands, I'll inevitably get a request for a link to something. I don't say this to complain but to point out that people are consuming and digesting content much differently than before.
I also work in social media marketing, and the ick is there as well. It's an endless race to stay top-of-mind with customers, which involves paying a lot to social media networks and creating awful end-user experiences. Small businesses compete with huge VC-backed companies, shein/temu/alibaba knockoffs, and retail conglomerates, and it feels like a race as to who can spend the most money on ads the fastest. We'll then try to turn to influencers to get our products mentioned, but that involves more money as well from product samples, fees, and commissions... only to have social networks limit the reach of those influencers' posts in favor of companies who will pay them money. I don't know how we're going to get off the hamster wheel.
I really appreciated this episode and know I'll continue to think about it.
Been doing a lot of thinking about this episode. I definitely plan to delete shopping apps from my phone after the holidays. Also every year I unsubscribe from all the endless emails I get from brands. This year I started early. Also I’m making it a goal for the New Year to shop locally whenever possible. Having to leave my house is a huge barrier for me on spending.
🙋🏼♀️ I left Twitter 2+ years ago. Facebook 1.5 years ago. Instagram almost 1 year ago.
And while I miss out occasionally on things posted and not communicated in other places, I feel so much freedom and won’t go back. I take pictures without thinking already about what the caption could be. If I take a pic and want to share it, I think “who do I want to see this pic?” and then directly text it to them.
It’s amazing. Not perfect. But so freeing.
I just started reading The Serviceberry by Robin wall kimmerer. I'm a few pages in and it seems so relevant. "Recognizing 'enoughness' is a radical act in an economy that is always urging us to consume more." "Ecopsychologists have shown that the practice of gratitude puts brakes on hyperconsumption." " Climate catastrophe and biodiversity loss are the consequences of unrestrained taking by humans. Might cultivation of gratitude be part of the solution?"
Also - this episode prompted me to text my husband “we got the boys enough for Christmas - we need to be done shopping.” Though I was thrilled my dad got my older son a bike at goodwill and we scored a scooter from our local Buy Nothing Facebook group. Highly recommend finding your local Buy Nothing group! We have gifted and received so many things here - clothes, kitchen supplies, kids toys, books, furniture… it’s amazing!
I had a realization two summers ago when we spent 9 weeks in a remote part of Maine while our house was undergoing a renovation: when everything is harder, somehow life feels easier. We have no dishwasher, we can’t drink from the faucet (water comes from the lake), so we drive a couple miles to the freshwater spring. Wal-mart is an hour away. Amazon does not deliver to our dirt road (I found out this past summer they actually do but will not let those floodgates open). Our kids played with sticks and rocks and swam in the lake. We just made due, but it didn’t feel like a sacrifice; it felt refreshing. It was the first time we spent so much time in a remote area (we typically vacation there 3-5 weeks), and life felt so simple yet so full. Those 9 weeks did help us break our Amazon habit, though two years later it’s slowly creeping back. No earth shattering thoughts, but consumption is a habit like anything else and breaking it takes concerted effort.
Loved this conversation and the comments here. Wanted to share a Ten Percent Happier episode recently dropped with Robin Wall Kimmerer. I think it fits nicely with overconsumption, our increased wealth gap, and even the “morality” pieces all threading in this week’s podcasts. Can’t recommend the episode highly enough. I’ll be reading her book that’s referenced over the holidays I found it so timely and thoughtful.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/49Qiac2ZdlxVzFrnk7vlh0?si=4hfpeZirSGOLUCLz2esvLg
Has Sarah detailed all of her favorite social media speed bumps anywhere?
Has anyone else listened to the new Rick Steves interview on The Daily?! SO good and on-topic. It’s perfectly parallel with Pantsuit Politics this week (Lulu Garcia-Navarro does it again with a killer interview). She and Rick hit on SO many of the same ideas about consumption and travel that Sarah and Beth touched on recently. Also, Rick discusses the sliding doors moment of his life as S&B talked about a few days ago, too. Lots of overlap.
It was such a great listen.
I know! I have loved PP’s interviews with Rick! So good!
I feel like I would be remiss in my duties as Sarah and Beth’s hype person if I didn’t take this opportunity to mention that Rick Steves has been on Pantsuit Politics TWICE (!!!!) and he is the best.
I haven’t listened yet but here is a thought I’ve had over the last week while in Japan. They consume a lot there. They also do it the way we did it back in the 80s. Out at physical stores, shopping amongst the people in busy malls and department stores. They had stationery departments in a lot of the major department stores I shopped in. It made me long for THAT kind of consumption. The experience kind.
I’ve started doing more in person shopping and it’s so much more fun
I had so many thoughts and comments listening to this episode and reading through the comments here I seem to be in good company.
I have real anxiety about the amount of stuff in the world. Like it makes my heart race and I feel physically sick if I think about it. So I don't. It's so easy to over consume. I've been reminded of how much stuff we have as we made 6 cross country/international moves in the past 20 years.
I also wonder if having a private IG account keeps it manageable for me. I mostly follow only people I know in real life and have muted or unfollowed people who I notice make me feel like I need to buy stuff.
One influencer I really like is Style Thief Fashion. She's been a great encourager for finding your style with what you have in your closet.
I just signed up for Nuuly and so far I really like the model service. You pay a monthly fee to rent 6 pieces and you can purchase something if you want but you don't have to. I think it will be a great way to try trends in a sustainable way.