Just wanted to say I am loving all of these flashback episodes and really appreacite all the work you've put in to relistening to your episodes. It's theraputdic in a way to look back and see how far (or not) we've come. Or just to see how things have played out either big or small.
At the end, when Sarah says she can't recall anything between 2017 and Covid, and Beth says something like "oh no, well it was tough"..... So I have that same dread of reliving 2018. That is when I started listening, I believe because of the "firehose" building and I couldn't take it anymore. And your voices kept me company and feeling semi-alright about it all, but 2018 was a very tough year in politics and culture. Looking forward to the 2018 flashback episode later this week. These are amazing and really helping me keep perspective.
Dude, 2017 was a terrible year for me, too! It really did feel like a lot of energy shifted. I love hearing the flashbacks, hearing you both say 'we were wrong' or 'I would change that' it's really refreshing. Personally my body TOTALLY SHUT DOWN in 2017 and it started my healing journey of mental health care and self care. <3 https://victoriaeasterwilson.com/rain-makes-the-flowers-grow-my-health-and-anxiety-journey/
Just wanted to say how much I am loving the flashback episodes! I am continually impressed by the humility you both bring to this endeavor.
I started listening in 2019 and haven't missed an episode since so we're almost to the times that I was here for and I'm curious to see what stands out to you.
Beth, remember when we did the live chat about Elizabeth Holmes? When was that? And is anyone in this group part of that chat? There were...5 or 6 of us.
re: Handmaid's Tale... read that in college and didn't need more of it. Still, I tried it. When it got to the "gender traitor" in episode three, I had a panic attack and stopped watching. Still haven't watched. Still don't plan to watch. F that.
I think that's the episode. My husband likes the show. The first two episodes, I just sat there and said this is so unrealistic. Then episode 3, I changed my mind and curled up into a ball. I think he's a couple of seasons behind, but we watched a lot of it.
The first person who unfriended and blocked me in the "new" political era did so after arguing with me over false accusations. She claimed that there is the same chance of false accusation that there is of being sexually harassed/assaulted/etc. She told me she was more worried about the men in her life than the women. After she blocked me I said good riddance and I'm holding to that.
Oh that ain't right. I hold space for the possibility of wrong accusation based on a couple of things that happened to people I know well in real life(*), but I wouldn't put the chances at equal.
* = I know a woman who made something up to get back at her ex. It's a twisted story. I stopped being friends with her shortly after she did what she did. I also know somebody from decades later falsely accused.
Loving these flashbacks and find that reflection over longer time horizons can be so illuminating. Really resonate with the physical therapy analogy about walking gently on the newly mended bones!!
Not sure I’ve said this yet but love that episodes now have YT videos. Makes me feel like I’m at a little coffee chat with you both 🤩
Sarah - I believe the word for "deja vu that's truly painful" is (ironically) a flashback, but the triggered by trauma kind.
I went back in time on my own blog to see what was hitting top of the charts for me in 2017 - I was in college so I was all about the "March for Science". I had forgotten that the first time around he also tried to completely obliterate federal grants for research and dismantle the alphabet soup of regulatory agencies.
In my personal life, I had just pulled my 3 sons out of public school for unschooling... yup... I am that fringe Mom! Completely changed my life and theirs (in great ways). I don't remember much else of the news or politics. Some of the headlines y'all talked about didn't ring any bells. I guess I was so wrapped up in all the giant changes in my own life that I took a break from it all.
I love that I showed up here right when you're doing these flashback episodes. I feel like it allows me to catch up on everything I've missed!
These flashback episodes are so interesting. I think the #metoo movement was extremely important and empowered many women to speak up. That said, I was always uncomfortable with the dismissive attitude toward the idea of false accusations. I'm sure the fact that I'm a public defender didn't help. I'm normally annoying to talk to bc I can take the most straightforward issue and expose all the gray. I always thought of how many lynchings and wrongful convictions of black men stemmed from false accusations of sexual assault. False accusations can and do happen and are the most dangerous to those society may view as inherently likely to commit such an act. I just feel like every issue gets turned into right/wrong or good/evil when there's so much complexity. And it never seems like a good idea when we have to choose who to protect.
If I were a listener in 2017, I would have been all over the comments about Al Franken.
At the time, I had a lot of Facebook conversations with a friend of mine who was the father of two young adult daughters. Somehow the #MeToo movement, it suddenly dawned on him that some men are creeps and he had unleashed females into this world of creeps. He was all into "believe all women. Women don't lie." And I was like "Women are human beings. Some human beings are bad. Sometimes they lie. Sometimes women lie. Not all women. Not always. Sometimes. We have to treat the accusations seriously, but they may not always be gospel truth." He unfriended me somewhere along the way. The whole #MeToo thing, and I do have my own #MeToo moment, but I could see that the backlash was coming and was going to be rough. But prior to this, it feels like a thing you couldn't talk about even in a roomful of women, and I've been grateful we can have better conversations about harassment now.
I'm going to defend forcing Al Franken to resign; however, Sarah may be making a more subtle point than I am able to understand. There were multiple accusers. Al Franken needed to learn how to behave himself. When somebody brings up Bill Clinton, I just say "Time travel isn't possible. We know better now. We have to do better now."
I have next no sense of when things happened. Memory is fickle, and if you asked me to remember not just that something happened in the world, but when, I'm going to struggle! As much as these flashbacks are a bit painful, I like the PT analogy. And 5-10 years out feels like the right time frame. End of year is often too soon to really look back on things, and 5-10 years is the period that I pretend is recent and I remember, but I actually don't.
2017 was a year of tons of transition for me too, so it was interesting reflecting on that a bit in light of the episode.
I’m someone who *did* stick out The Handmaid’s Tale through the finale this year, and I might be a weirdo because I love a dystopian tale. I will say this last season was the first I had watched since becoming a mom, and I can say with 100% certainty, it was exceedingly harder to watch this time around. I have heard that it has been more difficult for people to watch as mothers—since severed relationships between mothers and children is one of the central storylines. Idk if I would’ve been able to stick it out for 8 years if I’d been raising tiny humans in 2017. I think the show is stunning and also I’m glad they wrapped it up…though I’ll be interested to see what they do with the adaptation of The Testaments.
I have a logistical question about these flashback episodes: How did you decide which episodes to highlight in your year-in-review? Did you listen to multiple episodes before deciding? How did you narrow down your choices? I imagine as podcasters with such a robust back catalogue that it is probably extremely overwhelming to undertake such a project, so kudos to you both and the PP team for doing this excavation…it’s been so far so interesting to listen since I didn’t start until 2020.
I totally agree Ellen that things become harder to watch when you become a mom. I never watch handmaid's tale as I was a mother at this point but I did used to watch Game of Thrones and could never have started that show as a mother!
I think a "behind the scenes" / "extra processing" would be an awesome Spicy PP episode! I, too, and loving these flashbacks. It takes a lot of courage and humility to do this, and to do it in public on the interwebs... Thank you, we are all learning so much alongside you, Sarah and Beth!
Any way we can have a link to the Nuanced Life where you talked about “church clothes”? I have no idea why, ( I’m not even a church goer ) but this sounds interesting.
And the conversation about “Stuff”. These would be treats !
Gosh, Colin Kaepernick was only 2017? It feels like a lifetime ago. I still don't understand what the furor was about, but now I have the added opinion that the Left needs to reclaim the flag.
Agree! My neighbor and I were talking about this a few weeks ago, how we are going to start putting out flags or red, white and blue things. I've put a red, white and blue wreath on my door for the summer. Let's do this!
With the benefit of hindsight, I think the error committed by MeToo was too much focus on doing what was right and not enough on doing what was smart. I don't think MeToo committed any moral errors. I still think everything Sarah said in that clip was correct. I still think the panic over false accusations is almost entirely from men who feel entitled to engage in boorish, crass behavior.
The mistake was a failure to appreciate how people with power (including regular, individual men with the power to vote) would react. It's unfair but true that movements for social justice are often fighting an entrenched system that won't go quietly, and the best tactics seldom feel good.
Just wanted to say I am loving all of these flashback episodes and really appreacite all the work you've put in to relistening to your episodes. It's theraputdic in a way to look back and see how far (or not) we've come. Or just to see how things have played out either big or small.
At the end, when Sarah says she can't recall anything between 2017 and Covid, and Beth says something like "oh no, well it was tough"..... So I have that same dread of reliving 2018. That is when I started listening, I believe because of the "firehose" building and I couldn't take it anymore. And your voices kept me company and feeling semi-alright about it all, but 2018 was a very tough year in politics and culture. Looking forward to the 2018 flashback episode later this week. These are amazing and really helping me keep perspective.
Dude, 2017 was a terrible year for me, too! It really did feel like a lot of energy shifted. I love hearing the flashbacks, hearing you both say 'we were wrong' or 'I would change that' it's really refreshing. Personally my body TOTALLY SHUT DOWN in 2017 and it started my healing journey of mental health care and self care. <3 https://victoriaeasterwilson.com/rain-makes-the-flowers-grow-my-health-and-anxiety-journey/
Just wanted to say how much I am loving the flashback episodes! I am continually impressed by the humility you both bring to this endeavor.
I started listening in 2019 and haven't missed an episode since so we're almost to the times that I was here for and I'm curious to see what stands out to you.
Beth, remember when we did the live chat about Elizabeth Holmes? When was that? And is anyone in this group part of that chat? There were...5 or 6 of us.
re: Handmaid's Tale... read that in college and didn't need more of it. Still, I tried it. When it got to the "gender traitor" in episode three, I had a panic attack and stopped watching. Still haven't watched. Still don't plan to watch. F that.
I think that's the episode. My husband likes the show. The first two episodes, I just sat there and said this is so unrealistic. Then episode 3, I changed my mind and curled up into a ball. I think he's a couple of seasons behind, but we watched a lot of it.
The first person who unfriended and blocked me in the "new" political era did so after arguing with me over false accusations. She claimed that there is the same chance of false accusation that there is of being sexually harassed/assaulted/etc. She told me she was more worried about the men in her life than the women. After she blocked me I said good riddance and I'm holding to that.
Oh that ain't right. I hold space for the possibility of wrong accusation based on a couple of things that happened to people I know well in real life(*), but I wouldn't put the chances at equal.
* = I know a woman who made something up to get back at her ex. It's a twisted story. I stopped being friends with her shortly after she did what she did. I also know somebody from decades later falsely accused.
Loving these flashbacks and find that reflection over longer time horizons can be so illuminating. Really resonate with the physical therapy analogy about walking gently on the newly mended bones!!
Not sure I’ve said this yet but love that episodes now have YT videos. Makes me feel like I’m at a little coffee chat with you both 🤩
Sarah - I believe the word for "deja vu that's truly painful" is (ironically) a flashback, but the triggered by trauma kind.
I went back in time on my own blog to see what was hitting top of the charts for me in 2017 - I was in college so I was all about the "March for Science". I had forgotten that the first time around he also tried to completely obliterate federal grants for research and dismantle the alphabet soup of regulatory agencies.
In my personal life, I had just pulled my 3 sons out of public school for unschooling... yup... I am that fringe Mom! Completely changed my life and theirs (in great ways). I don't remember much else of the news or politics. Some of the headlines y'all talked about didn't ring any bells. I guess I was so wrapped up in all the giant changes in my own life that I took a break from it all.
I love that I showed up here right when you're doing these flashback episodes. I feel like it allows me to catch up on everything I've missed!
These flashback episodes are so interesting. I think the #metoo movement was extremely important and empowered many women to speak up. That said, I was always uncomfortable with the dismissive attitude toward the idea of false accusations. I'm sure the fact that I'm a public defender didn't help. I'm normally annoying to talk to bc I can take the most straightforward issue and expose all the gray. I always thought of how many lynchings and wrongful convictions of black men stemmed from false accusations of sexual assault. False accusations can and do happen and are the most dangerous to those society may view as inherently likely to commit such an act. I just feel like every issue gets turned into right/wrong or good/evil when there's so much complexity. And it never seems like a good idea when we have to choose who to protect.
If I were a listener in 2017, I would have been all over the comments about Al Franken.
At the time, I had a lot of Facebook conversations with a friend of mine who was the father of two young adult daughters. Somehow the #MeToo movement, it suddenly dawned on him that some men are creeps and he had unleashed females into this world of creeps. He was all into "believe all women. Women don't lie." And I was like "Women are human beings. Some human beings are bad. Sometimes they lie. Sometimes women lie. Not all women. Not always. Sometimes. We have to treat the accusations seriously, but they may not always be gospel truth." He unfriended me somewhere along the way. The whole #MeToo thing, and I do have my own #MeToo moment, but I could see that the backlash was coming and was going to be rough. But prior to this, it feels like a thing you couldn't talk about even in a roomful of women, and I've been grateful we can have better conversations about harassment now.
I'm going to defend forcing Al Franken to resign; however, Sarah may be making a more subtle point than I am able to understand. There were multiple accusers. Al Franken needed to learn how to behave himself. When somebody brings up Bill Clinton, I just say "Time travel isn't possible. We know better now. We have to do better now."
I have next no sense of when things happened. Memory is fickle, and if you asked me to remember not just that something happened in the world, but when, I'm going to struggle! As much as these flashbacks are a bit painful, I like the PT analogy. And 5-10 years out feels like the right time frame. End of year is often too soon to really look back on things, and 5-10 years is the period that I pretend is recent and I remember, but I actually don't.
2017 was a year of tons of transition for me too, so it was interesting reflecting on that a bit in light of the episode.
I’m someone who *did* stick out The Handmaid’s Tale through the finale this year, and I might be a weirdo because I love a dystopian tale. I will say this last season was the first I had watched since becoming a mom, and I can say with 100% certainty, it was exceedingly harder to watch this time around. I have heard that it has been more difficult for people to watch as mothers—since severed relationships between mothers and children is one of the central storylines. Idk if I would’ve been able to stick it out for 8 years if I’d been raising tiny humans in 2017. I think the show is stunning and also I’m glad they wrapped it up…though I’ll be interested to see what they do with the adaptation of The Testaments.
I have a logistical question about these flashback episodes: How did you decide which episodes to highlight in your year-in-review? Did you listen to multiple episodes before deciding? How did you narrow down your choices? I imagine as podcasters with such a robust back catalogue that it is probably extremely overwhelming to undertake such a project, so kudos to you both and the PP team for doing this excavation…it’s been so far so interesting to listen since I didn’t start until 2020.
I totally agree Ellen that things become harder to watch when you become a mom. I never watch handmaid's tale as I was a mother at this point but I did used to watch Game of Thrones and could never have started that show as a mother!
I think a "behind the scenes" / "extra processing" would be an awesome Spicy PP episode! I, too, and loving these flashbacks. It takes a lot of courage and humility to do this, and to do it in public on the interwebs... Thank you, we are all learning so much alongside you, Sarah and Beth!
I was wondering the same thing. It sounds like such a big task.
Any way we can have a link to the Nuanced Life where you talked about “church clothes”? I have no idea why, ( I’m not even a church goer ) but this sounds interesting.
And the conversation about “Stuff”. These would be treats !
Gosh, Colin Kaepernick was only 2017? It feels like a lifetime ago. I still don't understand what the furor was about, but now I have the added opinion that the Left needs to reclaim the flag.
Agree! My neighbor and I were talking about this a few weeks ago, how we are going to start putting out flags or red, white and blue things. I've put a red, white and blue wreath on my door for the summer. Let's do this!
I noticed a bunch of them at the Pride festivities this year.
YES! The flag is everyone's!
With the benefit of hindsight, I think the error committed by MeToo was too much focus on doing what was right and not enough on doing what was smart. I don't think MeToo committed any moral errors. I still think everything Sarah said in that clip was correct. I still think the panic over false accusations is almost entirely from men who feel entitled to engage in boorish, crass behavior.
The mistake was a failure to appreciate how people with power (including regular, individual men with the power to vote) would react. It's unfair but true that movements for social justice are often fighting an entrenched system that won't go quietly, and the best tactics seldom feel good.