You guysss... I am way behind and playing catch up. But, the death of Kobe and his daughter Gianna as the beginning of 2020 is something I will always remember.
I am enjoying your flashback episodes, not because the last 10 years have been great, but as a way of re-evaluating where I was at the time and how to move forward. I’m not usually a commenter, but this one hit me hard and maybe typing this out will help. I have 3 adult sons who were each affected differently by the pandemic. The technology offerings and loosening of in person requirements allowed my eldest to go back to college and finish his degree. He is now married and thriving. My youngest spent 2020 stuck at home a lot, as school started and stopped, and many possible exposures complicated his senior year of high school. He is plugging along, hopefully finishing his degree next spring. The pandemic absolutely ruined my middle son. He was in college, in another state. Fully online. Big lesson - online classes do not work for him. He failed. Started again and dropped all classes. Repeat both. The isolation and sense of failure intensified into severe depression. He saw a therapist, but lied to him about his life not wanting to “disappoint” him as well. He ended up moving home. Has a full time job. He’s a wonderful employee, but has no desire to finish the 5 classes it would take to get his degree. I think he is as afraid of success as he is of failure. I hope he will move on and we are working on that. If you had asked me 10 years ago, I would have (secretly) told you he was the one I was the least concerned about growing into a successful adult. I don’t know if a different response to the pandemic would have changed anything or turned out for the better in the long run. You don’t know what you don’t know. I just know that what happened sucked.
On impeachment: I don't think timing or topic was an issue at all. Trust in our institutions had eroded so much that no matter who brought what charges, they wouldn't have affected his base support because it was all "fake news" or "a witch hunt". America was already convinced of a giant conspiracy so if anything, the impeachments just made their theory seem more plausible to them. QAnon was at its peak. I don't see how else people who have been waving American flags at their homes for their entire lives would be willing to storm the Capital unless they honestly believed their country had been taken over. But that's for next year.
On the heavy handedness of woke messaging: Yes, this eventually got to me too, but I think it was earlier than 2020 when it was at its worst. So, more like the 2016-2019 era. For me, the cherry on top of the woke sundae was when they released the 2nd season of "Anne with an E" on Netflix and it was episode after episode of political messaging, some of which didn't make sense for that era. They also introduced a trans character on Star Trek Discovery, which... was fine, but felt forced. I still love both shows and have rewatched multiple times, but some of the messaging did not age well outside of the cultural moment. Every media outlet was pushing towards more representation, but a lot of what they put out missed the mark and felt more like tokenism.
I definitely watched Tiger King... more than once... and the movie that came out later. ;)
Half my family did nothing, the other half did everything the CDC said. We are still fractured over politics, but that was mostly due to the 2016 election. I too was living in a purple area and my kids just fell back into homeschool mode from the before times, so our lives didn't change much. My husband at the time was considered "essential" so his travel never stopped. We somehow never got sick. I was definitely dealing with more personal crap than with COVID as my marriage deteriorated.
I haven’t even gotten to the COVID section but your frank discussion of Brexit and the impeachment and the Supreme Court makes me want to raise another question. Can you guys consider a deep dive into how we broke Congress? Or maybe representative government generally? One of you said in passing something about we focus so much on the President and don’t hold Congress to account, and that’s so true. No wonder lots of people think executive orders are just fine— as far as they can tell that is “doing something”, in contrast to what comes out of the House and Senate. I would love to employ an historic lens as well as some on the ground reporting into what the factors are. We can all name some— too much money, lazy partisanship, no risk of failing to get re-elected, unwillingness to give up the job even when by all appearances you don’t really want to do it, etc. But I think there may be some more subtle causes, unintended consequences of actions taken for other reasons. Anyway, it’s a rich topic!
Finally getting around to this one— I wasn’t quite as motivated as usual 😬. But I’m actually glad I waited because when got to the part about Justice Ginsburg and the Court I was better prepared. I just listened to a discussion of term limits for the Court and it made the point that you two did about individual justices— no single solution (person) is going to solve all the problems. The TLDR of the ep is that there would be unintended consequences of more turnover that under some circumstances might please more people and under others would be as bad as the probs we have now.
I agree that we need more justices, and I think your idea of an “emeritus” role makes a lot of sense. It might also lead to more retirement because there might be people who aren’t at all interested in being out of the action, and that might be just fine! I think we probably do need something to prevent the temptation to only elevate 40-year-olds, to maximize their working years!
Beth was talking about how people would rather be out doing their thing and making money than be given money and I fully agree like 98% of the time. But I was furloughed in mid-March of 2020 with an 3.5 and 1.5 year old at home because daycare was closed and I was so thankful for the federal money added to state unemployment because South Carolina’s unemployment amount is impossible to live on. So it felt like a time that caregiving was actually supported and I think we could learn something from that. And it taught me how unemployment works better.
I’m really sad about how much covid broke so many churches. The fight over masking and returning to in person was so hurtful and felt very dismissive of members who were vulnerable.
The thing that the selfish part of me is still sad about is that my husband’s job was sending him to Puerto Vallarta for a customer meeting/appreciation thing and paying for me to go in March of 2020 and it got canceled. And because life, we didn’t get another opportunity to get away without the kids until October of 2024.
My family is financially fine. Those COVID checks put us into a place of stability we hadn't felt before (or since). It helped that staying home meant spending a lot less money too. It was an a-ha moment for me when I experienced the feeling of being able to spend in alignment with my values, instead of always on a budget. We never stopped working. We just got a supplemental income because small business and nonprofit salaries are ... crap. I loved those checks!
My thing is kind of wish is that Trump had won in 2020... We wouldn't have had Jan 6 or the stolen election narrative which I feel like has just broken so much. And I would've preferred another 4 years of the first Trump presidency to what we're experiencing now.
RBG - I'm mad at her, but I'm SO much more mad at the Senate/McConnell for refusing to even hold confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland, and at the Obama administration for not fighting it. The executive, in theory, could have tried suing or something to get the Supreme Court to weigh in on the timing of replacing justices, or tried SOMETHING, instead of just assuming Hillary would win and it would be no big deal.
I have such a hard time talking about the pandemic. Indiana was rough as people were really resisting the precautions and we just lost too many people unnecessarily.
We don’t have children so my viewpoint is skewed as a healthcare provider but it was a terrifying and exhausting time that many of us have not recovered from fully.
I will say this-I won’t do it again. I’ll leave healthcare. We aren’t prepared for another pandemic and when another occurs, it will be worse.
But I don’t have it in me to go through not only the amount of death but the hateful attitudes of many of those in our community towards healthcare providers.
My aunt was one of those people in Indiana. The people trying to get us to say she didn't die from COVID will be a core memory for me. No, she was not terminally ill. She had a few health conditions like a lot of 75 year olds. COVID killed her, and yes, it could kill your family member too.
Sometimes in all of the "what we got wrong talk," it seems like we forget all the people who died and all the people who lost loved ones and yes of course that would mean some people erred on the side of the caution. Who wouldn't!?
Bernie not being able to win a general election is a hill on which I will absolutely take my last breath. I have several people in my life who either abstained or voted for Trump in 2016 and voted for Biden in 2020 who absolutely would not have voted for Bernie. Obviously anecdotal but I could not see him bringing out independents or non- maga Republicans. I understand the frustration with Biden is super high right now and that’s valid, and it seems like that is coloring a lot of takes on him.
Hearing the kid’ voices was totally heartbreaking. It really reminded me what an impact COVID has had on that age group and all of us! Thank you for sharing that!
I will never forget when our governor in KS canceled in person school for the rest of the year at the end of spring break. First state to do that. We were reeling. And because most districts didn’t have one to one devices yet they weren’t allowed to teach anything new the last 2 months of school. Just review. Our teachers couldn’t teach our kids any more in our district, just check in once a week on zoom. It was not handled well
Ooof this show caught me in the gut kind of unexpectedly.
My kids were 2 and just turning 4 when the pandemic shut everything down. My son’s birthday is March 13 and we went to a birthday party for a friend the weekend before his birthday and then later that week my son’s party was canceled for the following weekend - it all happened so fast.
My husband was a chef/restaurant owner and had to shut the restaurant down multiple times over the course of the next year and a half due to very strict regulations in WA state. I worked as a speaking agent and overnight had to scramble to try and figure out virtual versions of the events my speakers had been booked for. I think the pandemic changed the public speaking world permanently. It was all such a whirlwind and both of our careers at the time depended on people gathering. I wasn’t sure how we would make it through, but we did.
Phew - thanks for this episode. I appreciate the care you’re dedicating to this series!
2020 feels like it was 12 years ago somehow. I really didn't appreciate how long it lasted until I reflected on Sarah's statement that most of what she thinks of as 2020 was actually 2021, and I think I also confuse the two. It seems so unreal to me that it went on for so long.
Related (I think), I feel like my sense of the passage of time was severely disrupted in 2020, and it never came back. I often will try to tell a story to someone and will start with "Last week, wait no... last month, maybe it was several months ago... Im not sure. What is time? Anyway, some time ago." Prior to 2020 I could pinpoint when something happened so easily. Not sure what happened there or if it is a unique to me problem.
2020 was the year I started listening to PP. I think I found y’all through Anne Bogel. I was looking for a way to learn more about the candidates for the democratic nomination for president and I loved podcasts so it seemed like a good place to start. I am so thankful I found you when I did.
Covid hit right after spring break, my senior year of college. We went online “for just two weeks” and of course stayed online the rest of the semester. I defended my senior thesis over zoom. Graduation was cancelled, and instead my department held a small ceremony over zoom. There were only four of us graduating that year (that’s physics at a small school for you!) so it was intimate and special. I was at home, quarantined, trying to focus on homework when I learned that I had won the most prestigious graduate fellowship in my field. I just curled up and cried because I was so exhausted and scared and couldn’t fathom celebrating or feeling proud.
My first year of grad school was completely online. It was so hard and so lonely. I was living with my now husband who was a few years ahead of me in the program so I was constantly comparing myself to him and I just felt stupid. I was always the big fish in a little pond, and now I felt like a floundering little fish. Imposter syndrome reared its ugly head and it’s something I still struggle with.
My husband has some preexisting conditions that made the prospect of catching covid before there were things like paxlovid really scary. So I quickly learned to see other people as a threat. I’m still unlearning that.
In a lot of ways, Covid took my slowly liberalizing politics and sent me on a crash course to radicalization. PP keeps me politically grounded and I’m so glad I found y’all when I did.
I thought I’d pipe up as someone who still has a lot of anger about Covid, particularly school closings. I see the effects of those decisions on a daily basis. My anger is equal opportunity - directed at the lack of competence and courage of the republican president AND my democrat governor at time. The consequences to one of my children can’t be undone, it’s just part of our reality and I think it’s going to take me a long time to reconcile that with a sense of grace for the people in charge. One thing that would go a long way that’s never been delivered is some kind of sincere apology for bad policy.
You guysss... I am way behind and playing catch up. But, the death of Kobe and his daughter Gianna as the beginning of 2020 is something I will always remember.
I am enjoying your flashback episodes, not because the last 10 years have been great, but as a way of re-evaluating where I was at the time and how to move forward. I’m not usually a commenter, but this one hit me hard and maybe typing this out will help. I have 3 adult sons who were each affected differently by the pandemic. The technology offerings and loosening of in person requirements allowed my eldest to go back to college and finish his degree. He is now married and thriving. My youngest spent 2020 stuck at home a lot, as school started and stopped, and many possible exposures complicated his senior year of high school. He is plugging along, hopefully finishing his degree next spring. The pandemic absolutely ruined my middle son. He was in college, in another state. Fully online. Big lesson - online classes do not work for him. He failed. Started again and dropped all classes. Repeat both. The isolation and sense of failure intensified into severe depression. He saw a therapist, but lied to him about his life not wanting to “disappoint” him as well. He ended up moving home. Has a full time job. He’s a wonderful employee, but has no desire to finish the 5 classes it would take to get his degree. I think he is as afraid of success as he is of failure. I hope he will move on and we are working on that. If you had asked me 10 years ago, I would have (secretly) told you he was the one I was the least concerned about growing into a successful adult. I don’t know if a different response to the pandemic would have changed anything or turned out for the better in the long run. You don’t know what you don’t know. I just know that what happened sucked.
I finally found time to comment... ok.
On impeachment: I don't think timing or topic was an issue at all. Trust in our institutions had eroded so much that no matter who brought what charges, they wouldn't have affected his base support because it was all "fake news" or "a witch hunt". America was already convinced of a giant conspiracy so if anything, the impeachments just made their theory seem more plausible to them. QAnon was at its peak. I don't see how else people who have been waving American flags at their homes for their entire lives would be willing to storm the Capital unless they honestly believed their country had been taken over. But that's for next year.
https://www.pew.org/en/trend/archive/fall-2024/americans-deepening-mistrust-of-institutions
On the heavy handedness of woke messaging: Yes, this eventually got to me too, but I think it was earlier than 2020 when it was at its worst. So, more like the 2016-2019 era. For me, the cherry on top of the woke sundae was when they released the 2nd season of "Anne with an E" on Netflix and it was episode after episode of political messaging, some of which didn't make sense for that era. They also introduced a trans character on Star Trek Discovery, which... was fine, but felt forced. I still love both shows and have rewatched multiple times, but some of the messaging did not age well outside of the cultural moment. Every media outlet was pushing towards more representation, but a lot of what they put out missed the mark and felt more like tokenism.
I definitely watched Tiger King... more than once... and the movie that came out later. ;)
On COVID: I had just started my new job at a small regional park. Our weekend visitation spiked from 60 to 600. It was insane! I even wrote all about it for our Fall 2020 quarterly publication: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15RrdZsrI5u45pqKznSIArH9s0FCRygtm/view?usp=drive_link
Half my family did nothing, the other half did everything the CDC said. We are still fractured over politics, but that was mostly due to the 2016 election. I too was living in a purple area and my kids just fell back into homeschool mode from the before times, so our lives didn't change much. My husband at the time was considered "essential" so his travel never stopped. We somehow never got sick. I was definitely dealing with more personal crap than with COVID as my marriage deteriorated.
I haven’t even gotten to the COVID section but your frank discussion of Brexit and the impeachment and the Supreme Court makes me want to raise another question. Can you guys consider a deep dive into how we broke Congress? Or maybe representative government generally? One of you said in passing something about we focus so much on the President and don’t hold Congress to account, and that’s so true. No wonder lots of people think executive orders are just fine— as far as they can tell that is “doing something”, in contrast to what comes out of the House and Senate. I would love to employ an historic lens as well as some on the ground reporting into what the factors are. We can all name some— too much money, lazy partisanship, no risk of failing to get re-elected, unwillingness to give up the job even when by all appearances you don’t really want to do it, etc. But I think there may be some more subtle causes, unintended consequences of actions taken for other reasons. Anyway, it’s a rich topic!
I wrote this yesterday and today you drop the ep with Haley Stevens! What a great place to start!
Finally getting around to this one— I wasn’t quite as motivated as usual 😬. But I’m actually glad I waited because when got to the part about Justice Ginsburg and the Court I was better prepared. I just listened to a discussion of term limits for the Court and it made the point that you two did about individual justices— no single solution (person) is going to solve all the problems. The TLDR of the ep is that there would be unintended consequences of more turnover that under some circumstances might please more people and under others would be as bad as the probs we have now.
I agree that we need more justices, and I think your idea of an “emeritus” role makes a lot of sense. It might also lead to more retirement because there might be people who aren’t at all interested in being out of the action, and that might be just fine! I think we probably do need something to prevent the temptation to only elevate 40-year-olds, to maximize their working years!
Beth was talking about how people would rather be out doing their thing and making money than be given money and I fully agree like 98% of the time. But I was furloughed in mid-March of 2020 with an 3.5 and 1.5 year old at home because daycare was closed and I was so thankful for the federal money added to state unemployment because South Carolina’s unemployment amount is impossible to live on. So it felt like a time that caregiving was actually supported and I think we could learn something from that. And it taught me how unemployment works better.
I’m really sad about how much covid broke so many churches. The fight over masking and returning to in person was so hurtful and felt very dismissive of members who were vulnerable.
The thing that the selfish part of me is still sad about is that my husband’s job was sending him to Puerto Vallarta for a customer meeting/appreciation thing and paying for me to go in March of 2020 and it got canceled. And because life, we didn’t get another opportunity to get away without the kids until October of 2024.
My family is financially fine. Those COVID checks put us into a place of stability we hadn't felt before (or since). It helped that staying home meant spending a lot less money too. It was an a-ha moment for me when I experienced the feeling of being able to spend in alignment with my values, instead of always on a budget. We never stopped working. We just got a supplemental income because small business and nonprofit salaries are ... crap. I loved those checks!
My thing is kind of wish is that Trump had won in 2020... We wouldn't have had Jan 6 or the stolen election narrative which I feel like has just broken so much. And I would've preferred another 4 years of the first Trump presidency to what we're experiencing now.
RBG - I'm mad at her, but I'm SO much more mad at the Senate/McConnell for refusing to even hold confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland, and at the Obama administration for not fighting it. The executive, in theory, could have tried suing or something to get the Supreme Court to weigh in on the timing of replacing justices, or tried SOMETHING, instead of just assuming Hillary would win and it would be no big deal.
I have such a hard time talking about the pandemic. Indiana was rough as people were really resisting the precautions and we just lost too many people unnecessarily.
We don’t have children so my viewpoint is skewed as a healthcare provider but it was a terrifying and exhausting time that many of us have not recovered from fully.
I will say this-I won’t do it again. I’ll leave healthcare. We aren’t prepared for another pandemic and when another occurs, it will be worse.
But I don’t have it in me to go through not only the amount of death but the hateful attitudes of many of those in our community towards healthcare providers.
My aunt was one of those people in Indiana. The people trying to get us to say she didn't die from COVID will be a core memory for me. No, she was not terminally ill. She had a few health conditions like a lot of 75 year olds. COVID killed her, and yes, it could kill your family member too.
Sometimes in all of the "what we got wrong talk," it seems like we forget all the people who died and all the people who lost loved ones and yes of course that would mean some people erred on the side of the caution. Who wouldn't!?
I’m so very sorry for your loss
Bernie not being able to win a general election is a hill on which I will absolutely take my last breath. I have several people in my life who either abstained or voted for Trump in 2016 and voted for Biden in 2020 who absolutely would not have voted for Bernie. Obviously anecdotal but I could not see him bringing out independents or non- maga Republicans. I understand the frustration with Biden is super high right now and that’s valid, and it seems like that is coloring a lot of takes on him.
Hearing the kid’ voices was totally heartbreaking. It really reminded me what an impact COVID has had on that age group and all of us! Thank you for sharing that!
I will never forget when our governor in KS canceled in person school for the rest of the year at the end of spring break. First state to do that. We were reeling. And because most districts didn’t have one to one devices yet they weren’t allowed to teach anything new the last 2 months of school. Just review. Our teachers couldn’t teach our kids any more in our district, just check in once a week on zoom. It was not handled well
Griffin- “listen we could be in a nuclear war” 😆 Silver lining
Omg baby Ellen!
Ooof this show caught me in the gut kind of unexpectedly.
My kids were 2 and just turning 4 when the pandemic shut everything down. My son’s birthday is March 13 and we went to a birthday party for a friend the weekend before his birthday and then later that week my son’s party was canceled for the following weekend - it all happened so fast.
My husband was a chef/restaurant owner and had to shut the restaurant down multiple times over the course of the next year and a half due to very strict regulations in WA state. I worked as a speaking agent and overnight had to scramble to try and figure out virtual versions of the events my speakers had been booked for. I think the pandemic changed the public speaking world permanently. It was all such a whirlwind and both of our careers at the time depended on people gathering. I wasn’t sure how we would make it through, but we did.
Phew - thanks for this episode. I appreciate the care you’re dedicating to this series!
2020 feels like it was 12 years ago somehow. I really didn't appreciate how long it lasted until I reflected on Sarah's statement that most of what she thinks of as 2020 was actually 2021, and I think I also confuse the two. It seems so unreal to me that it went on for so long.
Related (I think), I feel like my sense of the passage of time was severely disrupted in 2020, and it never came back. I often will try to tell a story to someone and will start with "Last week, wait no... last month, maybe it was several months ago... Im not sure. What is time? Anyway, some time ago." Prior to 2020 I could pinpoint when something happened so easily. Not sure what happened there or if it is a unique to me problem.
2020 was the year I started listening to PP. I think I found y’all through Anne Bogel. I was looking for a way to learn more about the candidates for the democratic nomination for president and I loved podcasts so it seemed like a good place to start. I am so thankful I found you when I did.
Covid hit right after spring break, my senior year of college. We went online “for just two weeks” and of course stayed online the rest of the semester. I defended my senior thesis over zoom. Graduation was cancelled, and instead my department held a small ceremony over zoom. There were only four of us graduating that year (that’s physics at a small school for you!) so it was intimate and special. I was at home, quarantined, trying to focus on homework when I learned that I had won the most prestigious graduate fellowship in my field. I just curled up and cried because I was so exhausted and scared and couldn’t fathom celebrating or feeling proud.
My first year of grad school was completely online. It was so hard and so lonely. I was living with my now husband who was a few years ahead of me in the program so I was constantly comparing myself to him and I just felt stupid. I was always the big fish in a little pond, and now I felt like a floundering little fish. Imposter syndrome reared its ugly head and it’s something I still struggle with.
My husband has some preexisting conditions that made the prospect of catching covid before there were things like paxlovid really scary. So I quickly learned to see other people as a threat. I’m still unlearning that.
In a lot of ways, Covid took my slowly liberalizing politics and sent me on a crash course to radicalization. PP keeps me politically grounded and I’m so glad I found y’all when I did.
I thought I’d pipe up as someone who still has a lot of anger about Covid, particularly school closings. I see the effects of those decisions on a daily basis. My anger is equal opportunity - directed at the lack of competence and courage of the republican president AND my democrat governor at time. The consequences to one of my children can’t be undone, it’s just part of our reality and I think it’s going to take me a long time to reconcile that with a sense of grace for the people in charge. One thing that would go a long way that’s never been delivered is some kind of sincere apology for bad policy.