Just thinking about how in the 80s my parents dragged me to abortion clinics, where sometimes they got arrested for blocking the doors to clinics because "babies were being murdered." And their protests were neither lawful nor particularly peaceful, especially when I imagine the experiences of the women seeking legal healthcare doing the best they could with the situation the were in. They did not fear violence. They thought it absurd when the feds were brought in. And they did not fear violence, even as they violated the law. I can't help thinking how far we have fallen.
And I don't understand their silence now. But they've allowed themselves to be hijacked by MAGA, I suppose. I am considering sending them this episode and attempting to engage (something I've abandoned at this point for the sake of relationship, but I don't know that that remains the right choice).
I made the mistake of scrolling Reddit this morning, and listening to this conversation was such a good reorientation for my mind and heart.
What I can't get over is that those ICE agents thought that shooting to kill was a reasonable, appropriate way to resolve the perceived threat of Renee Cook, and that members of the government and public agree. I don't know how to process the loss of conscience/reason/care for others that this embodies. My God, why did they not "just" shoot out her tires to immobilize her vehicle?
Also - "...it is monstrous, but that doesn’t it mean we become monsters in response." 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks for this episode! It helped a lot. To your end call for community, I beg everyone here: GO TO A PROTEST! Find your local invisible or 50501 chapter and see when the next local protest in your little suburb is. And just GO! They are so fun and empowering and the very definition of building community.
I could be wrong, but I feel like there is an agreed upon/developed definition of monstrosity from the Frankenstein pilgrimage that is background knowledge for this conversation. If someone who went on the trip would kindly share that, I would be so interested to know.
Ohhhhhh! That's a great connection. I (Maggie) didn't read Frankenstein last year or go on the pilgrimage, so I assumed it was more like "this is extremely bad behavior that is bigger than any one person," but I'm sure that (like everything we do influences our politics) that Sarah and Beth's time thinking about and reading Frankenstein influenced the conversation. I'll see if they have more to say about it. -m
Thank you so much for this conversation. ❤️ living in Minneapolis right now is terribly distressing. I’m really struggling with how bleak things feel. ICE is going to door to door in some neighborhoods. So, not comparing this to the gestapo feels pretty impossible now. We are living in a lot of fear. And it feels like no one is doing anything/can do anything to stop Trump from doing whatever the fuck he wants (locally, nationally, globally). I don’t know what to do or how to proceed. I trust Gov. Walz is doing what he can here in MN, but how do we stop this?!? —desperate in MN
I feel like saying “they are not gestapo/SS”, while true, is too dismissive as a flat statement. Yes, I want to recognize their humanity and don’t believe every one of them is the same or has the same inclination, I just don’t want to dismiss the reality the harm their actions cause while doing so and how it is being used broadly. I think we can call out what actions we’ve seen before used by other harmful groups AND to recognize how they are different. Personally, I think this is kind of like seeing martial law without the official declaration or clear rules of engagement.
Also, just as a humble reminder, the Germans, while prepping plans for their new regime, gained inspiration from US and our treatment of indigenous children in the Indian Schools. The book “They Called It Prairie Light: The Story of Chilocco Indian School” by K. Tsianina Lomawaima, about the school my great grandfather and his siblings were sent to, has an account of a German officer visiting their school in 1906 (on page 30 of the book): “An Officer of the German Imperial Army visited Chilocco recently to study methods of discipline and military tactics as promulgated at this institution.. He was very much pleased with his visit, and like other foreigners, did not hesitate to say that he was greatly enlightened and surprised at the thorough manner in which Uncle Sam is training his Red children.”
One of the symbols on the children’s sports uniforms was the Whirling Log, which is no longer used today by most because the Nazis used the symbol (used in other cultures, as well) to be the swastika. (Whirling log looks exactly the same but is turning in the other direction)
If anything, I think we’re rhyming some of our own past, but that’s probably hard for many to stomach and, instead, easier to equate the situation to something outside of us that looks similar that we don’t want to believe we’d do today.
I live in Minneapolis. It was at my stepdaughter’s high school that ICE agents released a chemical agent into a group of staff, parents and students. It’s been scary and hard here. And I felt very seen by your assessment that Minneapolis is a place that is trying hard to do the great American experiment of plurality - of welcoming everyone and working hard to work together. Minneapolis Public Schools, of which I am a small proud part of as a parent, does not always get it right. But we are all trying our hardest and best. And this federal occupation is making that work harder not easier. And it’s making it more dangerous for our kids. Not safer. Thanks for giving voice to that. Thanks for being nuanced. Thanks!
This maybe a stupid question but at what point did the Germans know that the switch had flipped and there was no turning back? Or the Venezuelans in 1999 etc-if we don’t panic and wait for the process to work but it isn’t working how do we deal with this? I feel like we are close to a Sadaam Hussein gold statue of Trump in DC-he now wants to rip into the west wing!! This is terrible. ICE turned around and shot 2 more people in Portland yesterday.
I just came from a week with our 80 year FL resident aunt who watches nonstop Fox in between her Bible study groups of rich white people that think he is great. 😩 I appreciate the Beth and Sarah and their level heads but man it feels so bleak!
I also feel like it’s so bleak. It’s like every terrible thing reveals someone else in my life that is falling for this propaganda and should absolutely know better. I have to keep reminding myself I am not the one that has lost rational thought. That body cam footage also has me consumed by rage but trying not to lose my humanity as Sarah and Beth always eloquently discuss.
Now having heard the video cam footage of the cop who shot her call her a Fucking Bitch as she drives out of control across the street to die, I am SHAKING with rage and utter heartbreak. All I can keep thinking in my head as I sit here crying is SHAME. Seeing a leader speak to nothing holding him back but his morality when he and this administrations moral values are completely absent as far as I can tell, especially regarding the sanctity of human life, leaves me with an overwhelming feeling of horror for what the future holds. I always knew it would get worse before it gets better. I still have hope that the second part of that is true, but my word, we are in for it and I’m just trying with all my might to befriend the resistance I feel ALL over my body to that truth. To know that things could be so much more loving and beautiful and yet here we are, I am DETERMINED to both honor my grief of this loss AND shine my light at this dark, dark time that I most wish were not as it is. We must pull together through love to overcome, including that of righteous anger at injustice done to Renee Good and SO many others. ❤️
Once again...thank you all for letting me both vent, be angry, cry, but also take a breath, ask big questions, see the big picture all in one episode. Every listen helps me calm the swirls of thoughts and emotions that I have in my head. Having the accompanying community makes it even better.
We just shared the Spicy bonus episode as the Friday episode. We were very torn about what to do, and we decided to just have a full conversation and see where we landed.
I listened to this episode last night when it was the Spicy bonus, and listened again this morning when it was the Friday episode. I found a second listen very helpful in processing the troubling emotions and fears and anger and helplessness I feel and gave me a moment to just sit with my grief, both for Renee Goode and her beloveds, for Minneapolis, and for our whole country.
I often listen twice to episodes on different days anyway, and I did what you did as well this time. Normally, the space gives me more time to absorb and process but I’m still sitting in frustration and grief. On a positive note, I am glad to be in community with people who feel in this same deep way.
Liz K, I just finished walking that same path. I listened to the Spicy; felt a bit more informed and like some things that were rumbling around inside of me had a bit more substance and nuance. And then, as I was sitting down to lunch, I listened again. Like Beth described in the episode, my body has been so tight, so rigid holding onto ALL of the things. Today after my second listen, my shoulders can drop just a bit, my jaw is not clenched quite as tight and I find that I am breathing a bit more deeply. It's not because my grief for Renee Good and her family are any less or my grief for our nation is lighter. It's because I feel as though there are others who are grappling with the same really hard, really painful things as I am. We are not alone and together we will find our way through.
Listening to y'all yesterday on the spicy MTS while I was making dinner for my family really, REALLY helped me process what's been a hard week news-wise. I'm still disappointed in the dude debating me about the reality of January 6 on my own Facebook wall, and deeply sad about this mother who died at the hands of ICE. Worried about Venezuela and Greenland. All the things. But this was just helpful and I can't even articulate why. Thank you both for wading into the hard conversation, it benefits us all. And thank you for also sharing this one with our greater PP community. Episodes like this are why I'm part of the Spice Cabinet.
Is it a complete repeat of the spicy without additional context or discussion? Just trying to assess whether I should listen to this as well or if all was covered in the spicy
It is just the bonus episode shared in the feed. We published it as soon as it was audio-engineered. Our sense this week from all the various platforms and messages was that listeners just needed to hear from us that we're struggling, too.
Beth, I respect and appreciate that you want to leave us feeling a little better about the darkness around us, but I don’t expect that from your work. This spicy episode is some of your best work as a team; I found it to be deeply empowering and inspiring. I truly find your premium content to be what keeps me as a member of the PP community and this episode is yet another example.
I may not have pushed play to hear sympathy for the ice agents, but the reminder of everyone’s humanity was what I needed (okay, almost everybody, struggling to see the humanity in anyone inside the regime leadership).
Thought I had already reached a saturation point on this topic but yet this was just what I needed. Thank you!
Just thinking about how in the 80s my parents dragged me to abortion clinics, where sometimes they got arrested for blocking the doors to clinics because "babies were being murdered." And their protests were neither lawful nor particularly peaceful, especially when I imagine the experiences of the women seeking legal healthcare doing the best they could with the situation the were in. They did not fear violence. They thought it absurd when the feds were brought in. And they did not fear violence, even as they violated the law. I can't help thinking how far we have fallen.
And I don't understand their silence now. But they've allowed themselves to be hijacked by MAGA, I suppose. I am considering sending them this episode and attempting to engage (something I've abandoned at this point for the sake of relationship, but I don't know that that remains the right choice).
I'm so troubled.
I made the mistake of scrolling Reddit this morning, and listening to this conversation was such a good reorientation for my mind and heart.
What I can't get over is that those ICE agents thought that shooting to kill was a reasonable, appropriate way to resolve the perceived threat of Renee Cook, and that members of the government and public agree. I don't know how to process the loss of conscience/reason/care for others that this embodies. My God, why did they not "just" shoot out her tires to immobilize her vehicle?
Also - "...it is monstrous, but that doesn’t it mean we become monsters in response." 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks for this episode! It helped a lot. To your end call for community, I beg everyone here: GO TO A PROTEST! Find your local invisible or 50501 chapter and see when the next local protest in your little suburb is. And just GO! They are so fun and empowering and the very definition of building community.
I could be wrong, but I feel like there is an agreed upon/developed definition of monstrosity from the Frankenstein pilgrimage that is background knowledge for this conversation. If someone who went on the trip would kindly share that, I would be so interested to know.
Ohhhhhh! That's a great connection. I (Maggie) didn't read Frankenstein last year or go on the pilgrimage, so I assumed it was more like "this is extremely bad behavior that is bigger than any one person," but I'm sure that (like everything we do influences our politics) that Sarah and Beth's time thinking about and reading Frankenstein influenced the conversation. I'll see if they have more to say about it. -m
Ooo I can’t remember what it was, but I absolutely believe this was a discussed topic!!
Thank you so much for this conversation. ❤️ living in Minneapolis right now is terribly distressing. I’m really struggling with how bleak things feel. ICE is going to door to door in some neighborhoods. So, not comparing this to the gestapo feels pretty impossible now. We are living in a lot of fear. And it feels like no one is doing anything/can do anything to stop Trump from doing whatever the fuck he wants (locally, nationally, globally). I don’t know what to do or how to proceed. I trust Gov. Walz is doing what he can here in MN, but how do we stop this?!? —desperate in MN
I feel like saying “they are not gestapo/SS”, while true, is too dismissive as a flat statement. Yes, I want to recognize their humanity and don’t believe every one of them is the same or has the same inclination, I just don’t want to dismiss the reality the harm their actions cause while doing so and how it is being used broadly. I think we can call out what actions we’ve seen before used by other harmful groups AND to recognize how they are different. Personally, I think this is kind of like seeing martial law without the official declaration or clear rules of engagement.
Exactly 💔
Also, just as a humble reminder, the Germans, while prepping plans for their new regime, gained inspiration from US and our treatment of indigenous children in the Indian Schools. The book “They Called It Prairie Light: The Story of Chilocco Indian School” by K. Tsianina Lomawaima, about the school my great grandfather and his siblings were sent to, has an account of a German officer visiting their school in 1906 (on page 30 of the book): “An Officer of the German Imperial Army visited Chilocco recently to study methods of discipline and military tactics as promulgated at this institution.. He was very much pleased with his visit, and like other foreigners, did not hesitate to say that he was greatly enlightened and surprised at the thorough manner in which Uncle Sam is training his Red children.”
One of the symbols on the children’s sports uniforms was the Whirling Log, which is no longer used today by most because the Nazis used the symbol (used in other cultures, as well) to be the swastika. (Whirling log looks exactly the same but is turning in the other direction)
If anything, I think we’re rhyming some of our own past, but that’s probably hard for many to stomach and, instead, easier to equate the situation to something outside of us that looks similar that we don’t want to believe we’d do today.
I live in Minneapolis. It was at my stepdaughter’s high school that ICE agents released a chemical agent into a group of staff, parents and students. It’s been scary and hard here. And I felt very seen by your assessment that Minneapolis is a place that is trying hard to do the great American experiment of plurality - of welcoming everyone and working hard to work together. Minneapolis Public Schools, of which I am a small proud part of as a parent, does not always get it right. But we are all trying our hardest and best. And this federal occupation is making that work harder not easier. And it’s making it more dangerous for our kids. Not safer. Thanks for giving voice to that. Thanks for being nuanced. Thanks!
This maybe a stupid question but at what point did the Germans know that the switch had flipped and there was no turning back? Or the Venezuelans in 1999 etc-if we don’t panic and wait for the process to work but it isn’t working how do we deal with this? I feel like we are close to a Sadaam Hussein gold statue of Trump in DC-he now wants to rip into the west wing!! This is terrible. ICE turned around and shot 2 more people in Portland yesterday.
I just came from a week with our 80 year FL resident aunt who watches nonstop Fox in between her Bible study groups of rich white people that think he is great. 😩 I appreciate the Beth and Sarah and their level heads but man it feels so bleak!
I also feel like it’s so bleak. It’s like every terrible thing reveals someone else in my life that is falling for this propaganda and should absolutely know better. I have to keep reminding myself I am not the one that has lost rational thought. That body cam footage also has me consumed by rage but trying not to lose my humanity as Sarah and Beth always eloquently discuss.
Now having heard the video cam footage of the cop who shot her call her a Fucking Bitch as she drives out of control across the street to die, I am SHAKING with rage and utter heartbreak. All I can keep thinking in my head as I sit here crying is SHAME. Seeing a leader speak to nothing holding him back but his morality when he and this administrations moral values are completely absent as far as I can tell, especially regarding the sanctity of human life, leaves me with an overwhelming feeling of horror for what the future holds. I always knew it would get worse before it gets better. I still have hope that the second part of that is true, but my word, we are in for it and I’m just trying with all my might to befriend the resistance I feel ALL over my body to that truth. To know that things could be so much more loving and beautiful and yet here we are, I am DETERMINED to both honor my grief of this loss AND shine my light at this dark, dark time that I most wish were not as it is. We must pull together through love to overcome, including that of righteous anger at injustice done to Renee Good and SO many others. ❤️
Once again...thank you all for letting me both vent, be angry, cry, but also take a breath, ask big questions, see the big picture all in one episode. Every listen helps me calm the swirls of thoughts and emotions that I have in my head. Having the accompanying community makes it even better.
Is there also a new Friday episode? Sorry, not sure where to ask 😌
We just shared the Spicy bonus episode as the Friday episode. We were very torn about what to do, and we decided to just have a full conversation and see where we landed.
ahh got it, thank you : )
I listened to this episode last night when it was the Spicy bonus, and listened again this morning when it was the Friday episode. I found a second listen very helpful in processing the troubling emotions and fears and anger and helplessness I feel and gave me a moment to just sit with my grief, both for Renee Goode and her beloveds, for Minneapolis, and for our whole country.
I often listen twice to episodes on different days anyway, and I did what you did as well this time. Normally, the space gives me more time to absorb and process but I’m still sitting in frustration and grief. On a positive note, I am glad to be in community with people who feel in this same deep way.
Liz K, I just finished walking that same path. I listened to the Spicy; felt a bit more informed and like some things that were rumbling around inside of me had a bit more substance and nuance. And then, as I was sitting down to lunch, I listened again. Like Beth described in the episode, my body has been so tight, so rigid holding onto ALL of the things. Today after my second listen, my shoulders can drop just a bit, my jaw is not clenched quite as tight and I find that I am breathing a bit more deeply. It's not because my grief for Renee Good and her family are any less or my grief for our nation is lighter. It's because I feel as though there are others who are grappling with the same really hard, really painful things as I am. We are not alone and together we will find our way through.
Listening to y'all yesterday on the spicy MTS while I was making dinner for my family really, REALLY helped me process what's been a hard week news-wise. I'm still disappointed in the dude debating me about the reality of January 6 on my own Facebook wall, and deeply sad about this mother who died at the hands of ICE. Worried about Venezuela and Greenland. All the things. But this was just helpful and I can't even articulate why. Thank you both for wading into the hard conversation, it benefits us all. And thank you for also sharing this one with our greater PP community. Episodes like this are why I'm part of the Spice Cabinet.
Is it a complete repeat of the spicy without additional context or discussion? Just trying to assess whether I should listen to this as well or if all was covered in the spicy
It is just the bonus episode shared in the feed. We published it as soon as it was audio-engineered. Our sense this week from all the various platforms and messages was that listeners just needed to hear from us that we're struggling, too.
Beth, I respect and appreciate that you want to leave us feeling a little better about the darkness around us, but I don’t expect that from your work. This spicy episode is some of your best work as a team; I found it to be deeply empowering and inspiring. I truly find your premium content to be what keeps me as a member of the PP community and this episode is yet another example.
This is very kind. Thank you.
I may not have pushed play to hear sympathy for the ice agents, but the reminder of everyone’s humanity was what I needed (okay, almost everybody, struggling to see the humanity in anyone inside the regime leadership).
Thank you!!! This was so good and much needed!