Shutdown and Teardown

Congress won't act while the administration wrecks things

Catchup episodes stress me out. After being away, I always feel that I come back and am able to go wide but not deep. I’m scanning so many articles, trying to get the lay of the land, and feeling the clock ticking down to recording time. That’s especially true this week. As Sarah puts it in today’s show, getting a stream of seemingly endless news alerts over the past week has felt like being in an episode of Punk’d.

Although preparing to record felt stressful, talking through everything helped me, as it almost always does. We talk about a lot that’s going wrong, but we also talk about some hopeful signs, some courageous actions, some effective pushback. Not to dress it up neatly or be overly optimistic (there is no optimism in my soul for Congress right now, and that bodes very poorly for our democratic republic)…just to put everything on the table. I hope that wherever you are, something in this episode will spark creative, hopeful, or resonant thoughts for you. -Beth

Topics Discussed

• Corruption at the White House

• Government Shutdown and Congress Adrift

• Donald Trump’s International Legacy and Actions

• Healthcare Cost Increases

• Outside of Politics: Our Switzerland Trip

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Episode Transcript

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth [00:00:10] This is Beth Silvers.

Sarah [00:00:11] You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. We’re so glad to be back with you in real time today after our trip last week with Common Ground Pilgrimages to Switzerland. Today, we’re going to attempt to catch up on the news, the good, the bad, the ugly-- not necessarily in that order. And Outside of Politics, we’re going to talk about our trip.

Beth [00:00:31] We took a very strong response to the episode that we aired about soda and SNAP benefits. And so we spent quite a lot of time on our bonus episode this week talking about that. We are making that part of the bonus episode available to everyone, whether you are a paid subscriber or not. So if you felt strongly about that episode, it would mean a lot to us if you also took in the response. So we will link that directly in the show notes. Getting part of that spicy bonus episode for free is something that we occasionally do, especially in times when it’s really in conversation with what we’re doing here on the free feed. But it is a great reason to make sure you’re subscribed on Substack, even if you’re not ready or able to be a premium member at this time. So we’d love for you to join us over there in a community that has extremely robust conversations.

Sarah [00:01:18] Yeah, we have made Substack our home base now for about a year. It’s everything. It’s the newsletter, it’s the show notes, it’s comments on episodes, it’s a community of 24,000 plus people at this point and it is free to subscribe and get our show notes and the newsletter and sometimes little extra bonuses like this week. It’s really where we have centered our social media presence. We really enjoy the platform. We like being over there. And we just turned on our referral leaderboard. So if you have a competitive spirit, great news. If you share Pantsuit Politics with friends over the next month, the top five refers by Thanksgiving, will get a gift box from our team. So go to pantsuitpoliticshow.com to subscribe and start sharing. Up next, we’re going to catch up on the news. It feels like a backhoe tromping away at the East wing of the White House is just about the best, most accurate, unironic symbol of the Trump administration that I could possibly conceive.

Beth [00:02:46] Tear it down while the government is not open.

Sarah [00:02:51] Tear it down after assuring everyone nothing was going to change. The White House was going to stay the same. And I was trying to maintain some open-mindedness towards this project because I’m a person who would like to see more structural change. I would like him to build a big old meeting space for Congress so we can unpack the House and not stick to this completely arbitrary number. So I was really trying to maintain open-mindedness, but the idea of you’re going to assure everyone that the structural integrity of the White House will remain, then you, without telling anyone, start tearing down the East wing of the white house, the East Wing, which is the public entrance. We’re tearing down the public entrants so that you can build a 90,000 square foot ballroom paid for and intended for your rich friends. I mean, you just can’t get more on the nose.

Beth [00:03:50] It’s wild to me that I feel this way, but the paid for privately is probably what upsets me the most about this because that is how corruption happens. I know that we have decided that apparently we’re cool with corruption in our country because so much of it is happening, especially through the exercise of the pardon power. But I would be more comfortable with this project on the whole if it were paid for with public funds. It is supposed to be the people’s house. If the people’s house requires updates, then that takes public money. If it requires more space, then that take public money, but I would rather my tax dollars go to building this ballroom if it is needed to do diplomacy and the kinds of things that are appropriate at the White House than to look at the list and see Google, Amazon, Lockheed Martin. And we don’t even have a sense of real disclosure. We have the most surface level disclosure we could possibly get around who’s funding this and that’s a problem.

Sarah [00:04:54] Yeah, it was this in combination with the George Santos of it all. I just felt like I kept opening the New York Times app while we were out of town and scrolling and feeling a profound sense of like are we being punked? Like how much more ridiculous can this get? And the answer is apparently always more ridiculous. He tore down the East Wing of the White House. I kept repeating it out loud to my husband yesterday because it just felt like the fullest manifestation for just break it. And also traveling the whole time, I just kept thinking, everyone helping us right now at TSA is not getting paid and has not gotten paid for a month. And no one’s talking about it. It doesn’t seem concern. The House is not voting on anything ever again. Apparently, do we even need Congress? We’re having No Kings protest while he’s posting all these videos of himself in a crown. I feel like I’m in an episode of Punk’d.

Beth [00:05:59] It’s been wild. I really have tried to look for a place to keep some kind of sense of humor about things because I don’t want to be a person who is lost and everything is terrible. The one thing that I’ve tried to keep a sense of human about is the way that he is redecorating in the White House. It amuses me a little bit that he wants to be the first lady more than the president, that his taste I find so garish. That if he were a good president, this would be the thing we laughed at it, right? This would be the thing they do on SNL. If he were just really approaching all of his policy with vigor, but dignity and humaneness, I think that the gold of everything would be that the funny part of this presidency. And I really felt that way until they started on the ballroom during the government shutdown. To me, the juxtaposition of those two things with the open invitation for corruption of having it be privately funded, I do find this something worse than obnoxious.

Sarah [00:07:12] I will say, glimmer, I had a family member say that they were talking about the gold in the White House with friends they know to be pro Trump, arguably MAGA, and even they were like, yeah, it’s gross. So I was like, well, finally, we found something. I am so struggling with the sense that this is the guy who came to drain the swamp and seek your revenge against the elites who don’t take you seriously. Because I do take that critique in good faith. I do take this frustration of so much of America that feels they’re not represented in DC seriously. And I just don’t understand how the guy who is a billionaire and just keeps getting richer while president-- which is a thing not so long ago was a glaring red flag, the biggest of all sirens. You are not supposed to profit off the office of presidency. And why is this guy who just keeps getting richer, who lets people out of jail, who broke the law-- we didn’t even have time to cover the head of customs and border enforcement accepting a bag of 50 grand in a sting operation, and they were like we’re now investigating that. He’s good. I thought we cared about corruption. I thought we cared about elites exploiting their positions and their power inside the United States government for their own personal gain. And I don’t understand how any of this reads as draining the swamp.

Beth [00:09:16] Just as we were sitting down to record this episode, the news broke that the president has pardoned the founder of Binance who had been convicted for money laundering, and that founder has ties to the Trump family crypto venture. I don’t think we, the global we, care about anything right now, except sorting ourselves into in-group and out-group.

Sarah [00:09:46] Yeah. I can’t let go of our sibling fight analogy. The more I think about it, the more I’m, like, right. Ezra had this expert on the rural-urban divide on, and she just kept saying it’s not policy-based. It’s just affinity. It’s not a policy-based. And the reason it also makes me think so much of the way my kids fight is it doesn’t matter if it’s in your best interest or not. Doesn’t matter. All I care about is that you suffer. The sibling fights are so rage-filled and so real. And I don’t know how we break the fever dream where the most important thing is the enemy on the other side while we have someone with so much power whose number one priority is to keep us divided and to keep us fighting each other. That’s why no one can pay attention to him because he’s too busy fanning the flames of don’t you really hate each other, though? Don’t you really, really hate each other?

Beth [00:10:47] And I don’t know if there’s any walking back from that. It does feel to me more and more like the two political parties are fraternities. And maybe that’s fine. Maybe that’s where we are in an America where there are constantly studies being published about loneliness and belonging and atomization. But in order to get anything done, if we are going to be in that system of affiliation, I do think we need to move in a more parliamentary direction where there are more. Because having two that are so entrenched in this way has paralyzed the Congress. I think if you’re feeling really unmoored and stuck right now, it is because Congress is unmoored and stuck. The one mechanism that we have to hold the president to account to oversee the justice system to ensure that the people are represented and all the people are represented-- not just the people who agree, but all the are people represented-- is not doing anything. Lisa Murkowski gave a quote that the Congress is adrift. It feels like we’ve given up. And that to me is the feeling that is hanging over everything right now.

Sarah [00:12:02] Yeah, they’re not voting. They’re not swearing in new members, especially in the House. I know in my intellectual brain that there have been other moments in United States history where the parties were this tribal, often leading to a lot of violence. I don’t even just mean the Civil War, but where there was real tribalism surrounding the parties and it was identity driven. I know that we’ve been here before, so I believe that this is not the final day and we’ll get out of there. And I don’t know if it’ll include other parties. I do believe that people are increasingly frustrated and tired with this level of acrimony. I just think as long as he has such a command of the attention and he lives for it, he just lives for the division, he is fueled by it. It’ll take a strong national voice to combat that, to say, no, this is not what people want. This is not where people want anymore. And it’s so scary because this is messaging, but also they’re building in all these structural changes that I am concerned about the Democratic Party becoming a permanent minority party. I really, really am. I think that there are red flags everywhere, both at the state and national level, that are deeply, deeply concerning.

[00:13:39] And like I said, I opened up the app and I scroll and I’m like I don’t even know what to do. I run a news podcast. It’s so overwhelming and you don’t know where to direct your attention. I am so sad we were out of town for the No Kings protest because I think that that was incredibly encouraging, just a reminder that like that feeling you get when you open your phone and you scroll through the news is just a small slice of reality. And I know standing amongst your fellow American, embodied, grounded, looking out at a sea of other people who were like this is not acceptable, it was empowering and encouraging just to watch it through my screen. I can only imagine how much better it would have been to participate in it in person. And it really was a good like wake up. He demands so much attention and also that is not the only reality. And there is so much more happening in our country than this transparent and obvious corruption, then a Congress adrift. It really was encouraging and I am trying to cling to that in the space of all the overwhelm.

Beth [00:15:03] Two things that feel encouraging to me, one, is that in Indiana Republicans refuse to do the gerrymandering that the president requested because it’s a reminder that it doesn’t have to be this way. It does not have to be like this. There is power for people who will take it. They just have to take it against their own party and that’s hard when the party feels like a fraternity, but it is doable. And so I’m really, really appreciative of all the people who did the hard work of getting there in Indiana. If you decide we’re powerless and nothing matters, you don’t get that kind of result. That came from intense work by people on the ground in Indiana, and I’m super grateful to those people. The other thing that I found encouraging while we were gone, although it is in a very dark context, it’s just the way that people in Chicago are being so creative and caring about their neighbors in response to the operations that are happening there by federal law enforcement and ICE. My sister was telling me about how people are organizing for Halloween to reverse the flow of trick or treat so that families who are concerned about ICE operations will have candy brought to them by their neighbors instead of being out and about with their children. Now, is that the vision that I want for our neighborhoods in America in 2025? Not at all, but they could just be giving up and instead they’re saying we will still have this holiday, we will celebrate. We will grab attention by showing the lengths that we’re having to go to live in our neighborhoods in a normal way and something approaching a normal away here. And I think that that’s really great.

[00:16:42] I was also reading this morning about how people are distributing just plastic whistles so that if they see agents, they can blow a whistle and just warn people that something is about to happen. And that both tells people, hey, you might want to get out of here if you’re afraid that you will attract attention in some way. It also says to people, hey, someone else might be arrested right now and their rights might not be respected. And paying attention to that, just being there and watching it, maybe filming it, making sure that this is done in a way that has any measure of accountability around it matters. And so, a lot of the posts I saw about the No Kings protests were like if you’re wondering what you would have done in World War II or during the civil rights area, look at what you’re doing right now. And then I look on the other side and I see people are doing the things. People are showing up and doing things to help their neighbors to advance the vision of America that they have to try to safeguard our democratic systems. And I’m really impressed by those actions.

Sarah [00:17:59] I want to switch a little bit to talk more internationally. I am fascinated by a Donald Trump that has railed against globalism for years and a MAGA movement that hates globalism now being so engaged around the globe. There are some apparently rules of second-term presidencies that apply to him, which is they’re very concerned with their international legacy. So we still have a very fragile ceasefire holding on in Gaza. Vice President JD Vance has traveled to the area. Jared Kushner and Steve Wittkopf are doing all kinds of interviews bragging on themselves. There was some exchange of fire, but it seems to be mostly holding. And then, of course, the hostages have been released, which is a huge cause for celebration. But you can see that this and Ukraine, and of course we’ll get to South America, is taking up a lot of his time. It’s taking up a lot of his time when he’s not redecorating, of course.

Beth [00:19:12] I was, of course, very moved to see the hostages being released and also the way that people in Gaza are contending with prisoners being released from Israel, returning to their friends and loved ones. As I have watched that reuniting in both places, I’ve been thinking about how this is just the beginning of a very long process in coming to terms with what’s happened. It is encouraging to me to see that the administration seems to understand this is just the beginning and that it is very fragile. I do think the president has had a little bit more discipline than he normally does in the way that he talks about what’s going on to try to keep the ceasefire together. I think that we do have an alignment of incentives for once that he wants his legacy to be about bringing peace to this area. And so that’s good for the world and it’s good our country and I hope good for people on the ground there. So I am trying to just think about how to take all this in with as much respect for the pain that people on the ground have been through as possible. Because on the one hand, there’s so much joy and celebration and you just want to say, hooray, finally! On the other, now begins the process of settling into what has happened, what’s been lost, what’s being imprinted on people because of this.

Sarah [00:20:41] It feels like the people in the area respect how this isn’t just an easy celebration more than anywhere else. I was fascinated to watch the-- there was booing of Netanyahu at the rally and then the Netanyahu administration tried to shame people, and many of the hostages families were like, oh, you’re going to tell me how to act towards you? I owe you nothing big boy. And I thought it was like super fascinating and watched with a lot of interest. It’s the same with Russia and Ukraine. He said he was going to talk to Putin, now he’s not talking to Putin. I think there’s a lot of fair critique of Zelensky right now with regards to what’s going on with the Ukrainian people and just their exhaustion, the difficulty in getting more people to fight and watching the way that the Trump administration is trying to navigate that. I mean, it’s not as easy as-- nothing about Israel and Gaza was easy, but we have a very different relationship with Israel than we do with Russia. And I think he thinks his just personal relationships with these dudes is all that matters. And it does seem to be like a little bit, God save me, that he might be learning that the reality is something different.

Beth [00:22:05] There had been a lot of discussion in Congress about new sanctions on Russia. And once again, the president has decided the Congress doesn’t have a role. And so the administration has unilaterally put sanctions on two Russian oil companies. The EU has joined in with some of those sanctions as trying to take that approach of how much can we isolate Russia? How much can make Russia feel the pain to try to bring them to the negotiating table? And I view that as positive news for the most part. At the same time, I think you just have to acknowledge the cost of everything. Like with our government shutdown, I think it is important that Democrats are saying we are here and we will not be rolled over for this budget, but I recognize that it’s difficult to see how it ends and it’s difficult to see what gets accomplished, even if Democrats are able to preserve the ACA subsidies. That does not fix the fact that the cost of health insurance is going to be astronomical for a lot of people this year. It does not stop the bombing of boats now in the Caribbean Sea and the Pacific Ocean. It doesn’t stop the ICE operations.

[00:23:15] So you try to see these developments and take them for what they are, recognizing that it’s against this much bigger picture that’s really disturbing. And that’s how I’m thinking about the sanctions on these Russian oil companies. The more expensive that oil is anywhere in the world that has enormous ripple effects, the ramifications of that are huge. We are going into winter in a part of the world where winter can be very severe and harsh. And so I’m just trying to see as much of the big picture here as I can without thinking only about Donald Trump and the way that he operates. And imagine what is the ugly side of the thing that seems like a positive development, especially as we think about how to end wars in 2025?

Sarah [00:24:05] Yeah, it’s frustrating, but it’s probably the strongest sign of this sort of authoritarian bent, is that you just can’t not talk about him. He is the decider. There’s no other input that I can tell. Like, what does he feel like today? And his words aren’t even the best indicator. Axios had this whole thing, like, if you’d bet on the market that he was not going to do what he said he’d do, you’d be a lot richer than if you were betting he was going to say what he was going to do. Like, who knows? I don’t understand. I can’t even understand the motivation or the strategy in South America right now. I don’t think we actually care if Maduro’s in charge or maybe somebody does that’s convinced him we should? And just to be announcing, to be telling everybody, oh, by the way, we’re engaged in these intelligence missions. Just openly being like, I mean, you’re not anymore if you just told everybody. I don’t understand. I don’t understand the strategy there. I don’t know the goal. And even if I did, who cares? Because it could change. And no one’s going to hold him to account. It’s just going to be we’re just following his whims.

Beth [00:25:26] I really wish that I could sit down with Secretary Rubio and ask him a long list of questions about this because the combination of moves that we are so directly hostile to Venezuela and Colombia while being so aggressively friendly with Argentina, when that seems contrary to America’s economic interests, I have a lot of questions about, and those things all feel related to me. In agriculture right now there’s a lot a discussion about our relationship with Argentina. We have provided quite a bit of foreign aid to Argentina, even though Argentina is selling soybeans to China, which has stopped buying our soybeans, to terrible impact for American farmers, really, really terrible. But nonetheless, this week, the president started talking about importing large quantities of beef from Argentina to try to lower our grocery prices. And American farmers and ranchers are saying, what?

Sarah [00:26:32] What the hell?

Beth [00:26:33] What are you talking about? And so the contrasting pressures of foreign policy and economic policy all wrapped up in the administration, kind of waving its hand at any concerns about these operations in the Caribbean Sea and now the Pacific Ocean too. No, no, no, don’t worry about it; we’re just going after drug cartels. That seems false to me, or at least extremely incomplete, especially since the drugs that we’re talking about coming from these South American countries are mostly cocaine, and they’re talking about it the way that you would talk about fentanyl. And so there are so many pieces that don’t add up. And I believe that Marco Rubio holds the key to this. So if anyone could get him to come chat with us, I want to understand. I have a lot of criticism and I am really, really upset about the people being summarily executed in what looks like a law enforcement operation. But if there is something happening here that I’m not getting, I want to get it. I want to understand.

Sarah [00:27:41] Yeah. With Congress adrift, there’s just who’s going to be asking those questions?

Beth [00:27:45] Yeah. This is what Congress is there to do.

Sarah [00:27:50] Not right now, Beth.

Beth [00:27:51] I have lots of questions. I would like to talk about the two people who somehow didn’t die when the boats were bombed. And the administration decides to repatriate those people, to send them back to their home countries, which I believe were Colombia and Ecuador.

Sarah [00:28:09] Big enough risk to execute summarily, not big enough risk to interrogate?

Beth [00:28:15] And try or hold? Because if we held them, I think the strategy here is if the United States government held those two people, courts would have an opportunity to say what is going on here. There would be a mechanism for oversight and they don’t want a mechanism for oversight. And again, if there’s a piece of the puzzle here that I don’t have, give it to us, explain yourselves though. Maybe they are going at something that we just don’t understand. It is incumbent on them to help us understand that. And the fact that they don’t feel any pressure to do that from Congress, again, I think that’s why we all-- I should just speak for myself. I think that’s why I feel at such a loss right now.

Sarah [00:29:09] Sometimes I think they’re moving so quickly, they don’t even know what they’re doing. And I do believe in the truest part of myself that that is going to catch up with them eventually. I really, really do. I think it already has. I think so much polling around particularly independence views towards ICE, towards the cost of living right now. My health insurance is more than my mortgage. I don’t know what else to say. It’s getting truly insane. And they’re not addressing it at all. They’re too busy tearing down the east wing of the White House and building a giant ballroom. It’s giving Marie Antoinette, you know? It’s really giving Marie Antoinette.

Beth [00:30:04] I am insured through a marketplace plan because we are small business owners who cannot, at this moment in time, afford to have a health insurance plan for our business. And because going on my husband’s employer sponsored plan was very, very expensive, so we made a difficult calculus for me and my children to go on a marketplace plane. I do not receive subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. So the fight that Democrats are waging in connection with the shutdown has nothing to do with me at this point. Not nothing to do with me in that insurance is about a pool of risk and so everything is connected in some ways, but this will not change the fact that next year my monthly premium will go from $930 to $1,402 for the Bronze Plan, the lowest quality coverage offered on the exchanges. It is catastrophic insurance that also gets us a yearly well check. I would be much better off just paying for that annual well check than paying this kind of monthly premium. And I know that my situation is a good one in the landscape of the premium increases and the coverage decreases and losses people are experiencing this year. Now I’ve been encouraged to read that there are some people in the Senate trying to have real conversation about that, bipartisan real conversation, about that. It seems to be way too small of a group though, with too few ideas against a backdrop where again the fraternity is locked in to either protect what is or tear down what is instead of saying, how do we help? This is not good for anyone.

Sarah [00:31:55] Yeah, mine is double that. Obviously because of Felix, catastrophic coverage is not an option for us as it’s true for many, many Americans. I don’t know what to do when me and Marjorie Taylor Green are on the same side. I don’t know why that’s not getting more people’s attention. I didn’t want to spook her. I don’t want to point out too much that she’s saying things that make sense because I worry that would discourage her. But again, something’s got to give. Something’s got to give. I mean, the red meat of politics only works if there’s not actual gaping wounds when things are chugging on along. And they’re not chugging on along. And I just feel like-- oh man, what was I listening to and they were saying so much of what happened in Vietnam came after the Red Scare when they lost so much institutional knowledge through the firings? Like there’s a lot of historians that believe basically we fired all these people who understood Southeast Asia and then we got in this quagmire in Southeast Asia. And especially over the course of the government shutdown and the way this administration functions, I’m just like what disasters are we putting ourselves on the roads towards, you know... That’s the ones we can’t anticipate. We can see the ones right now that are happening in everybody’s premium increase. That’s an obvious one that’s not getting any attention. And I just keep thinking which ones are the ones that will only be obvious to us in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years down the road. Like it’s just this tearing apart with this beautiful visual image of the East Wing coming down.

Beth [00:33:53] And, look, I want to be fair. There are hard questions about why this premium increase across the health insurance space is happening. That is not solely the president’s fault or even mostly his fault. I’m interested in how we got here and what was missed and why for over a year we’ve been reading that this was coming. And still here we are flat-footed in the face of it. Where else is that happening and what other sectors? What creative work is quietly being done to try to figure out how to navigate it? What solutions need more public support? I would put your agreement with Marjorie Taylor Greene on my list of hopeful things because at least with some of these problems, people like her who came to power just saying what she thought was true-- I mean, that’s what she’s done, right? I think there are Marjorie Taylor Greene voters who believe that her thoughts are kooky, but they appreciate that she’s saying them in her own words in a way that’s authentic to her about what’s in front of her.

[00:35:13] Now this is not an endorsement of Marjorie Taylor Greene and her views. It is, however, a recognition that a lot of our problems are becoming so obvious that it doesn’t matter what your affiliations are. You have to say, I see the problem. This is an experience a lot of people are having. What are we going to do about it? And I hope that we can do that more. And I hope that we see more efforts like Josh Hawley’s right now to work on health insurance. He gets that this is not going to work for the people he represents. And we can disagree about everything else, but anybody willing to sit down with a notebook and a pen and think about how to fix this, let’s do it.

Sarah [00:36:15] We went to Switzerland.

Beth [00:36:18] Somehow. We were hired to be faculty for a discussion in Frankenstein that took place in Switzerland. What a gift from our friend Vanessa at Common Ground Pilgrimages.

Sarah [00:36:30] Yeah, it was really a beautiful trip. We had beautiful weather. Samantha, our local guide, was incredible. People showed up ready to be engaged in deep intellectual debate around the book, to be vulnerable in connection with one another about their lives and what’s going on and physically ready to just walk a lot. We walked so much. And we saw so many beautiful things. So it was a victory on all accounts. It was a really, really beautiful experience. If you are on the fence about doing a Common Ground Pilgrimage, let this be the shove that gets you over into saying yes because it’s a really special experience.

Beth [00:37:15] So I would like to ask you about something that I felt very judgmental about during my time in Switzerland. And I think that I might be wrong, but I don’t feel wrong in my spirit. And so I just want to stress test a very strong reaction I had. Chad and I went to Switzerland a few days before we reported for work at Common Ground Pilgrimages. And it was really lovely. We went to several different cities. One of my favorite things that we did was go to Jungfraujoch, which is the top of Europe. That’s the highest point in Europe that you can reach by going up through cable car and then a train. And once you get up there, the altitude is very intense. It did for me feel like someone was wringing out my brain and lungs, but it was worth it. It was so beautiful. You step out onto what they call the glacier plateau. So a relatively flat area, but it is icy, it is glacier. And you look around and you see so much, it really touched me.

[00:38:20] I felt very overwhelmed by that experience. I did just start to cry, which is not a thing that happens to me very often, just tears for a reason that I can’t name. I wasn’t talking through something. I didn’t have a big idea about it. I had no words in my brain. I just started to cry because it was so beautiful. Until I got very judgmentally mad. There’s a rope around this glacier plateau that says in several languages, do not cross this rope, there is a risk of death. Because you are up, again, at the highest point in Europe. And this woman hops under the rope. Rolls out a yoga mat, sets up a GoPro in the snow, and proceeds to film herself doing a yoga practice.

Sarah [00:39:15] Wow! That’s bold.

Beth [00:39:16] It is the angriest I have been about anything in a long time. Now, I am sure that that was just an easy vehicle for some things that had been percolating in me for a while to bubble up. But I was so mad and I have been trying to think about why. I think what I feel is that that treated this space that felt really sacred to me like a green screen, but I am open to being wrong about this. I wonder if you think I am.

Sarah [00:39:50] You came knocking on my door for a less judgmental reaction to people filming yoga YouTubes in the Swiss Alps. I’m not your girl, Beth.

Beth [00:40:00] When you say it like that, but you are good at saying like, no, let me take a different angle of an issue, right? Let me push you on an issue. So I just wondered if I needed to be pushed on this issue because I was so-- it was like so judgy in my head about this woman. And I’m trying to work through that.

Sarah [00:40:19] No, I’m not your girl here. I don’t like that. Here’s my very, very selfish take on why that pisses me off when people do basically ignore the rules. Because obviously we go to a lot of national parks, there’s a lot barriers, there’s lot of dangerous situations. I remember in particular I think we were in a national park, Yosemite maybe, Yellowstone maybe, I don’t know, but it was like a sunset location and everybody’s up there, everybody’s brought their picnics, everybody picked their spots out and these dudes just kept like-- and this was like not even a rope. This was a balcony, there were bars, they were climbing over it to get out further onto the rocks. I’m like, you know what, you want to take your own life in your hands and do something really stupid, whatever. You’re going to ruin my vacation if you fall off in front of me. You know what I mean? That’s just going to be a real bummer. I don’t want to see you die. I don’t want to see fall to your death off the end of this cliff. That would ruin my vacations. That would suck.

[00:41:28] And that’s always what makes me so mad is like you’re not-- it wouldn’t be just you affected. Like all these children here, all these people here, if they saw that, they couldn’t unsee it. It’d be really terrible. And it’s really selfish to do something so dangerous in the front of everyone else. That’s the part that makes me mad. I travel so much like if I stayed mad about people filming their social media videos, and it’s so disorienting too. You find somebody and they’re chatting, chatting, chatting, and you kind of think they’re looking at you and you are like, oh wait, no, they’re filming for their audience of YouTube followers. That part is annoying, but it’s just so common now that everyone is using the beautiful space you’re at as their backdrop, and you’re just a prop that I’d be mad all the time. That’s a pretty egregious one though, I got to say. The yoga mat is really next level.

Beth [00:42:26] I think you’re right. We did talk about how if you got hurt doing that, you would put other people in danger trying to help you.

Sarah [00:42:32] Yeah, the rescuers. Of course.

Beth [00:42:35] You would probably limit what is available to people in this space. They would put up new restrictions. Maybe you’d prevent other people from having this moment. There was something in the fact that we were even able to be up there that felt like such a triumph of innovation and exploration. Like they started on this and it was just like some guys with like axes and stuff, the tools to be able to get you up this mountain, to have the vision of let’s build a train inside the mountain so that people can see and experience this. It just felt like a slap in the face to all of that to me. Again, if someone is listening and you’re like here’s why you’re wrong, please email me and let me know. Because I am working on why I had such a strong reaction to this, but I really did.

Sarah [00:43:26] Again, not your girl. Somebody else will have to hit you up in the comments afterwards. Because I got an easy to tap people should just act right part of my brain that gets fired up a lot when I travel. So I do look forward to seeing if anyone thinks you’re wrong. Can’t wait to hear. I got a feeling maybe no, but we’ll see.

Beth [00:43:48] We’ll see.

Sarah [00:43:48] Okay. Thank you for joining us. Thank you being patient with us while we were away and couldn’t respond in time to the deluge of news coming from the Trump administration and around the world. We will be back with you next Tuesday. Don’t forget to subscribe to our Substack at Paintsuitpoliticsshow.com and share it with friends to climb the referral leaderboard. Top five by Thanksgiving gets a special gift box. We will be back with on Tuesday. And until then, keep it nuanced, y’all.