Why Congressional Democrats Are Failing Their Moment

The Democratic Party's Leadership Crisis

STOP.

The word I type eleventy times a week as one Democratic fundraising text hits after the other.

STOP. Stop asking me for money and do. your. jobs.

After all, money is vote of confidence and I have no confidence in the Democratic Party right now. I didn’t think my identity as a Democrat could be shaken but it has. I don’t feel inspired. I don’t feel encouraged. I feel nothing but frustration.

So, when Ezra Klein (as he did with Biden’s candidacy) said the quiet part out loud and on the record, I was all ears.

Beth and I talk about his editorial and whether the Democratic Party should shut down the government in today’s episode.

Topics Discussed

• Sept. 30: Government Funding Deadline

• Ezra Klein Calls on Democrats to Shut Down the Government

• Outside of Politics: When Do We Sing Along?

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Episode Resources

Pantsuit Politics Resources

• Sarah’s First Books Book Club (By Plane or By Page)

  The First Books Book Club - Spy Novels!

Government Funding and Ezra Klein’s call for Democrats to Shut it Down

• Russ Vought: Appropriations process ‘has to be less bipartisan’ - Live Updates (Politico)

• Opinion | Stop Funding Trump’s Takeover (Ezra Klein | The New York Times)

• How President Donald Trump More Than Doubled His Fortune In One Year (Forbes)

• Cory Booker (Instagram)

• Thomas Massie on the ‘Department of War’ (X.com)

• More to Say about the Squanderer in Chief (Pantsuit Politics Premium)

Show Credits

Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our Managing Director and Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.

Our theme music was composed by Xander Singh with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.

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Episode Transcript

Sarah [00:00:09] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth [00:00:11] This is Beth Silvers. You're listening to Pantsuit Politics. Funding for the United States government to continue its operations expires on September 30th. As we're recording this episode on September 8th, 22 days from that deadline, the White House and members of Congress in both parties have competing plans about what comes next. And on Sunday, New York Times opinion columnist Ezra Klein, who's one of the most influential voices in democratic politics, made clear his view that need to use the funding fight to say something to the American people about the way that Donald Trump is running the country. So we'll discuss that today. And then we'll lighten things all the way up Outside of Politics by talking about public events and when we're singing along and when were just listening.

Sarah [00:00:54] We know the news is very heavy right now. Our goal at Pantsuit Politics is to have honest conversations that help you carry that load long-term. A lot of news and politics shows are built for burnout. We want to be built for you to stay engaged as a citizen no matter what's going on. And we think more people need that different approach to the news right now, so we hope that you'll share our show with the people in your real life and online. If you're on Substack, sharing our show notes post to your Substack notes really helps more people find us. Maggie has been posting clips of our show on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube Shorts. You can share those. And just texting a friend the link to the podcast is a great way to get the conversation going. We appreciate your support as always, and we hope that we're supporting you as you take in the barrage of headlines every week.

Beth [00:01:37] Next up, let's talk about government funding. Sarah, we've been making this show for 10 years. So we've had lots of government funding discussions. I think a refresher is always a little bit helpful. September 30th is the deadline to fund the federal government for the new fiscal year. So we don't run the government on a January 1 to December 31st year. We go October 1st to September 30. And there is a long process on how this is supposed to go, beginning with the president submitting a budget request to Congress. And that's where we stumbled first this year.

Sarah [00:02:22] Yeah, he submitted a skinny budget for FY 2026 in May of 2025. This is later than the actual statutory deadline of the first Monday in February. Now we did have both the House and Senate approve budget resolutions. Again, this is not even the appropriations. This is just a resolution. They've done that, but I don't think they've reconciled them. The House has not yet adopted the Senate passed budget resolution. So we haven't even gotten through the budget resolution. Now they have moved on to the 12 bills that are supposed to pass out. There's 12 appropriations bills for all the different departments and defense and labor and agriculture. And I went and looked at how far they are into this process. And it's so stupid. There is only one that is ready for conference between the Senate and the house. Military construction, veteran’s affairs and related agencies.

[00:03:22] There's like, I don't know, at least four or five that the Senate hasn't even passed out of committee. Even when you have, I think, maybe one or two that's maybe passed both out of the committee, but neither of the chambers have taken floor votes, so they have to get out of budget committee, then they have go to the full Senate or the full House. Even where they're a little bit further along. They're so far apart. The defense appropriation, the Senate's total is 20 billion more than the House's. It's so stupid. Every time we get to this part of the year, I just get so mad. The last time they completed the whole entire process was 1997. I was in high school. I was in high school the last time that they did this. Why are we pretending? Why is this so stupid? It makes me so mad, I'm going to take a deep breath.

Beth [00:04:12] It's hard for them to get very far in the process when they haven't followed the process step by step. The process only makes sense-- and it's still convoluted, but it only makes sense if you go in order. Those budget resolutions really matter because they set the boundaries. They say to those 12 subcommittees, these are the top line numbers you have to work with. Now, you go figure out how to spend this amount, but this is the amount. And so if the Senate and the House aren't even on the same page about those top lines, of course, their subcommittees are going to be really far apart. All of this chaos really benefits the White House because what the White house wants is to just keep patching funding. The White House really doesn't want Congress to do this job. It wants Congress to say, "Okay, just keep doing what you're doing until a new date. And on that new date, just keep doing what you doing until yet another new date." Russ Vought, who's in charge of the Office of Management and Budget, has said publicly that this process should be less bipartisan. That they should just ram it through and let the White House do what it wants to do. And so that's where we are. Some Republicans are cool with that. Some Republicans are like actually Congress has a job and we'd like to do it. And then Democrats are sort of all over the place in terms of what they want to do.

Sarah [00:05:28] Because all we've done since 1997 is that. We just passed continuing resolutions. We don't pass all these 12 bills for each department of the government, for the House and Senate to approve and agree how to spend the money. We're not doing that anymore. I don't know why we're pretending. If the White House wants to burn it down-- which is clearly their number one policy priority. It's like their mission statement. You know what I'm saying? Burn it down. This is actually a place I'm ready to talk about burning it down. Let's talk about another process because the continuing resolution where because we have abandoned any modicum of bipartisanship in the legislative process and we've abandoned it with judicial appointments. We're not trying to get to 60 on the judicial appointments, like we've abandoned it in so many areas.

[00:06:19] That's why this process becomes such a center point for-- I really hesitate to use the word bipartisanship, but where the other party, the minority party has any say at all is because it needs a 60 vote threshold. It needs a sixty vote threshold to pass these continuing resolutions, which is what we've been using to fund the government since 1997. So this is why we're having this conversation because this is basically the only place the minority party has any power to exercise within our actual constitutional legislative checks and balances (whatever word you want to use) system. At least we're half pretending during the continuing resolution. And they have somewhat of a say because they need 60 votes.

Beth [00:07:13] And it should be the place where the minority party has somewhat of a say because it is the primary responsibility of the United States Congress. This is where the rubber meets the road. Can the government operate or not? And that's why the process is so convoluted. It's a big deal. It should be a big. And getting to that 60 vote threshold in the Senate should be hard to do. The work should have to go into it to get us there. And the work just isn't going in right now. And so we end up talking about this, as we'll get to in a second, as an attentional event, an opportunity for both parties to make some kind of case to the public.

Sarah [00:07:52] And I don't even understand why they push things through the appropriations committees. I don't know why these committees pretend around these 12 funding bills. I find it confusing. I really, really do. No one thinks this is going to matter. You know they're not going to pass all 12 bills. What is this even about? I would be this mad during the Obama era. Like, this has been the normal run of events for so long. Then you have Trump coming in, and you have all these rescissions. Like, pocket rescissions, clawing back money. And so now, on top of a process that's completely broken around Congress's constitutional duty to spend money, now you have the White House coming in and saying we don't even want you to do that anymore. You don't get to do anything. I kind of want a reporter to ask Donald Trump or Russell Vought, what do you think Congress's constitutional duties and responsibilities are? Just curious.

Beth [00:09:00] Just name one.

Sarah [00:09:01] Yeah, can you name one that you think they should actually do?

Beth [00:09:06] Because he's my member of Congress, I'm really on the Thomas Massey beat always. And I appreciated something he posted this weekend, which was if they're going to rename it the Department of War, does that mean they acknowledge that Congress has to declare war? And that we have the power to do these things? And I thought they don't acknowledge that. But at last, the fact, they don't think Congress should do anything. And they have started to tiptoe up to some people's line with this latest pocket rescission. So Trump canceled $4.9 billion in foreign aid that Congress had passed. It was the law for the executive branch to spend this money. And he said, "We're not going to." And there's a statutory process for telling Congress that we'd like Congress to cancel these funds, but we've waited too late. And so we're just not going to do it. And here's the thing, so many things that have happened in this administration, a pocket rescission is illegal. The question is, who's going to do anything about it? And that's where we are in the funding fight. A lot of things are going on that people are very unhappy with. A lot things are happening that are not legal. What are we going to do about it? And into that foray comes Ezra Klein. In a highly produced video podcast that accompanied his op-ed--

Sarah [00:10:37] It was a two-page spread in the opinion section. It got attention both online and in print.

Beth [00:10:44] Yes. Ezra Klein published Stop Acting Like This Is Normal. Really just saying to Democrats, okay, what are you good for? This is your moment. Step into the moment.

Sarah [00:10:57] Yeah, I read it in church. I'm just going to be transparent. I was just kind of wasting a little time during the...

Beth [00:11:03] Just scrolling on your phone?

Sarah [00:11:05] The announcements takes too long at my church, okay? The announcements take too long in my church. I'll say it.

Beth [00:11:11] I was live texting during church this week because my two closest friends weren't there. So I was just letting them know what was happening. I probably looked like I was reading as Ezra Klein on my phone, too.

Sarah [00:11:19] And immediately sent it to basically everyone I talk politics with, particularly Democrats, and I just sent it with the big eye emojis, like, whoa, including to Pantsuit Politics group text. Like, hi, what up? Because he just laid out a pretty strong case in my personal opinion. He kind of goes through like this is what happened last time when Schumer got the funding bill back in March, and he said like, look, we've just be empowering this executive branch that already wants a lot of power. DOGE is out of control, the courts are going to keep him in check, the markets are going to keeping him in check via these tariffs. And none of that is true anymore. The courts aren't stopping him, the market isn't stopping him, DOGE doesn't really exist anymore. And so Ezra's making the point like all these arguments Schumer made, they're not valid anymore. They're not invalid anymore. This isn't March. We have an authoritarian government.

[00:12:15] We talked about this last week. He is exerting power. He's posting about going to war with Chicago. He's occupying cities. He's even blowing up his own priorities with this raid on the electric vehicle battery plants in Georgia and trashing our relationship with South Korea in the process, all these places we wanted to invest in America. Industrialization is not happening. The re-industrialization is not happening. The economic numbers are trash. There are more job seekers than jobs. Everything's getting so expensive. Everything's getting so expensive. What are we doing anymore? The numbers that are getting put out there as far as increases in health insurance- 17%. I was talking about a friend about how expensive cars are. He's trying to buy a car for a 16-year-old. Like, what are we doing? Why are we just sitting around waiting for the midterm until everything is good and fully ruined?

Beth [00:13:21] But wait, there's more. He also blew up this boat in the middle of the Caribbean Sea. I am so stuck on them just deciding to just kill people just without verifying anything about those people. I mean, without any authorization. Like under what power do you just summarily execute people?

Sarah [00:13:43] Kill 11 people.

Beth [00:13:43] Also, Russia just did its largest attack on Ukraine. Where is anything getting resolved? Where are they putting points on the board anywhere?

Sarah [00:13:57] Oh, me, pick me Beth. Pick me, I have one.

Beth [00:13:59] Sarah.

Sarah [00:14:00] They're getting so rich.

Beth [00:14:03] Yeah, that's right.

Sarah [00:14:03] They're get so, so rich. So they're putting lots of points on the board for them. What was it that something Ezra cited in the column? Forbes estimates his personal fortune has doubled to five billion through just open and transparent corruption. Pay me and I'll get you a good deal. Pay me and I'll get you a good deal.

Beth [00:14:30] So I can't disagree with a word of Ezra's case for how badly things are going. Agreed. Things are going badly. He cites a Democratic senator challenging him on the funding dispute. He said if we don't help Republicans-- because that's what it is, right? Republicans control the Congress and the White House. It is Republicans' responsibility to pass a budget. If we don't work with the Republicans to pass a budget, does that help? Or is that a desire for emotional catharsis that might be self-defeating? And I truly don't know how I feel about this. I'm eager to discuss it because I just don't know.

Sarah [00:15:18] Well, there's a part of me that thinks. If this was a-- I can't think of another word except adult. If this was an adult party, ready to run Congress in a mature and transparent way, as they are empowered to do by the voters since they hold the majority, then they'd be a lot further along on these 12 appropriation bills. If you are worried about this, if you think, no, we have the power and we're going to do it and we are in charge and the American people have given us this mandate, then you should have passed-- personally, I would have passed all three 12 appropriation bills and dared them to vote against all 12 of these in the Senate. Because it would take basically a filibuster. You'd have to do it 12 separate times. That's not an intentional event, right? That's not any kind of event that would be worthwhile for the Democrats to stand up for. Why didn't you do that? They didn't. And that's what would be part of my argument to the American people.

[00:16:28] This isn't a real process. They're not actually passing a budget. They're kicking the can down the road. And this road is not functioning for you. The road is only functioning to make them rich. So we cannot fund a government that kidnaps people off the street, that exercises extrajudicial killings in your name, that releases the hounds as far as like crypto and corruption and is doing nothing. Doing nothing about your cost for health insurance, doing nothing about your rising energy prices, except for emboldening the AI industry that's making that a problem in the first place, while building gold statues for him and fawning over him and making sure he feels good about himself every minute of every freaking day. I don't think it's about emotional catharsis. I think it is about the reality on the ground. The government is being used by a corrupt party to enrich themselves, and we will not stand for it.

Beth [00:17:36] How does that end? That's the question I'm stuck on. I agree with all that. He is in office for four years. How do you get out of the shutdown? What is the thing that you're holding out for? Because that long list that you just made, every word of which I agree with, much of that is going to continue to be true while he is in office. And so how does it end?

Sarah [00:18:07] I think they need like three asks, right? They need three demands at maximum. Funding his paramilitary force would be my first one. We're not going to fund your private army so that you can occupy American cities and decimate industries and scare the shit out of people. So that's the first thing. We want in this continuing resolution a reduction of however much funding from ICE. That's too much. You don't need to be the best funded law enforcement agency in the country. I think that's a good one. I think how about we want you to follow the law? I was going to say, well, first of all, you could demand like the enforcement of the TikTok law. You are you just ignoring it. You're just ignoring what we said we wanted to do. The problem is with even with this rescission stuff, it's just a gentleman's agreement.

Beth [00:19:12] That's right.

Sarah [00:19:12] Like he'll just ignore it. But this man is a bully. He only responds to force. So I don't know if you need some policy achievement or if you just need attention. Because if he sees that the American people are responding to the arguments of the Democratic Party, that could at the bare minimum slow his butt down a little bit. There's a part of me that's like, yeah, we need three policy initiatives or policy demands. But then there's a part of me that's like, no, we don't. We just need to demand a couple new cycles and at least get our butts back on the field at the bare minimum, and that could have an impact.

Beth [00:20:00] Yeah, maybe, I just don't know. This is what I don't know. I am really struggling with if you get the attention, what do you do with it that is effective in any way? And how do we avoid this just happening every time we are at a new fiscal year? Because honestly I can't see us getting anything done other than a patch right now. So you have a new deadline and you have these new-- and maybe that's the goal. Maybe the goal is hold his feet to the fire every single time, get the attention every single time. But I do think you have to focus. To get people's attention around something, what is the thing? ICE seems like the right thing to me. The videos of masks, people who won't identify themselves, seems like they're right thing to me. But I'm not sure because I also think that like good work could be done through this process to make sure that those subsidies for plans on the marketplace for health insurance don't go up. So this is the problem, right? Sometimes the attention is at odds with what the process can actually accomplish.

Sarah [00:21:08] But that's the thing, they don't have to be congruent. That's what we've learned in our decentralized media environment. I don't really care what you hold him to in the continuing resolution, figure it out. Y'all are the experts. You're the politicians, this is your job, do it. Figure out what would have the most impact, make those demands in front of the cameras, online, on TikTok, on Instagram, on X. I think the argument Ezra identified from John Ossoff is the one. They're getting richer, your life's getting worse. Full stop of the sentence. They are getting richer. He just gets richer and richer and richer and soaks everything in gold and gets his gold statues from Apple while your costs go up, while the job openings close down, while everything gets worse. That's the attentional argument to me. That's not even hard. I don't even have to think about it. I wouldn't even get into ICE. I wouldn't get into the occupying of the American cities. I wouldn’t get into that. I mean, you can for the people paying closer attention. I think there's like more complex arguments you could make. But for the passive news consumer, you shut down the government and you say he's using your government and the people's House to make himself rich while your life gets worse.

Beth [00:22:20] And he's doing that for you four years. This is my problem. I just don't know how you win in the context of the shutdown. Ezra Klein kept talking about Democrats would need to win the shutdown. They need to go out and win it. What do we get for a shutdown? Because what I've said on this podcast many times about a government shutdown is that it is an abdication of responsibility. It is wasteful. It always costs more money than it saves to have a government shut down. It is dangerous. Like there are so many reasons. It is disruptive. It is another cruelty to the federal workforce that has been through so much already in this presidency. So we have to justify that cost. It's an enormous cost to shut down the government. What do we get on the other side of it that justifies that cost? That is what I'm really struggling with.

Sarah [00:23:12] I don't think you can apply the same argument. It's not the same government. It is not the same government; we're not where we were in the Obama administration. We're not even where we were in the first Trump administration.

Beth [00:23:22] Agreed, but those things I just said are all still true.

Sarah [00:23:24] I don't think they are. I was thinking about this. I don't know if you'd poll the federal workforce after the abused said level and say, "I would not be surprised if the polling even among federal employees around a shutdown of the government was different." I really wouldn't be surprised if they were said, you know what, the way they've been treating us, shut it down.

Beth [00:23:49] Yeah, I thought about that this morning. I would love to see that polling. I wish we could know that, because I don't know. But I do know that the United States government not being operational is in general not great for the country. Like it is still a big cost. I don't want to pretend that this is an easy decision. It's not an easy decision. If I had to vote on this, this would not be an easy to me because any way that you fund this, you are still enabling the president. You also give the president extraordinary power if you don't. That is the fact. That is the fact I keep grappling with. He will be the president on the other side of this either way. And so what is the best case scenario of a lot of bad scenarios?

Sarah [00:24:36] I don't think it's an easy decision, but I think the analysis is different. I just think it is not about-- you just did a long more to say on that the only thing that's true of him across the board is waste. So how much wasteful or how much more wasteful is a government shutdown in the face of an administration that just keeps clawing power for itself, enriching itself and wasting taxpayer’s dollar every chance they get. So the waste of a government shutdown is different. The treatment of federal workers. Even the stuff that really makes everybody's lives hard like the air traffic controllers, that's a disaster. It's a disaster right now. Who's to say a government shut down wouldn't prevent at this point a terrible disaster at an airport. We don't really know and we wouldn't. There's no way to prove that. But when you're talking about shutting down ICE, when you're taking about clawing back all these "emergency powers" where they really have to defend themselves and they really just have to justify what they're doing, I don't know, it's a different government and so to me the analysis is different. It's barely a government at all. It's a freaking fiefdom. It's not under any rubric a government of the people. He doesn't care about Congress. Like we just said, I don't think they could identify a thing they think Congress should do. And so what are we even talking about? We're talking about shutting down an authoritarian power grab. That's what we're talking about shutting down.

Beth [00:26:20] And then what? This is my question. II can't get to the other side of it.

Sarah [00:26:24] You're shutting down the authoritarianism. Here's the thing, with someone like Trump, there is such a momentum to his ego, to the praise, to the wins, to the positive. God knows what information his people put in front of him. I don't think a lot of it is the truth. And so to me, there is the power of a disruption with someone who functions on that sort of attentional momentum. It's almost like he's been on this attentional ego-driven momentum since the assassination, right? Like, he's chosen by God, he won this big election. I don't think he's getting the truth about his actual polling numbers on what America actually feels about him. Or maybe he is and that's why he's tripling down on crime, because he knows that's one that remains a little bit strong for him. I don't know, but I could argue either side. But you know what I'm saying? There's just an intentional momentum. With someone like him, I do think it's a win to just throw him off his game. To just knock him back on his feet a little bit and say, enough. We're not going to kick you out of office. I don't think that's the goal. We're not going to impeach you. All we're trying to do is say we're still here. I think that Ezra's ultimate argument. The Democratic party needs to say to the American people, if not to Donald Trump, we are still here! We are still here.

Beth [00:28:03] Yeah, to me that is the most compelling part of this piece. You and I don't have to have a plan. We don't to be able to answer all these questions, but democratic leadership does. And I really liked when he said, "If we don't have a better plan than this, then we need new leaders." We need the right messengers. We need people who can lead us through this. Because if someone could say, here is what we're going to accomplish and here's how we're going to do it, and these are the things we're going to tell the public about this. I'd be on board. I saw a clip of Cory Booker on cable news this weekend and they said, are you going to shut down the government? And he said, to be clear, I am not going to shut down government. I am also not going to vote for a plan that hurts the American people. Funding the government is Republicans' responsibility. They're in the majority, and they will not get my vote for a plane that hurts people. I thought, that's very good. Good job, Senator Booker. Keep doing that. Keep beating that drum. Keep doing the thing. But if we get to the precipice, I want some leadership on how we get to the other side of it. Because even as I agree with you that things are different, the analysis is different, the people are different, the impacts are different; we still cannot be without any clarity and in a long shutdown with no plan to move beyond it. Because I do think ultimately where there is a vacuum, Donald Trump loves to step in and fill it. And so if this goes on and on and the public gets sick of it, I think he'll step into that and do something, because that's his specialty. He'll do something. And if he's the only one doing something, the public goes along.

Sarah [00:29:46] He's the only one doing something and that's why Democrats are in such a terrible spot.

Beth [00:29:50] That's right.

Sarah [00:29:51] The only person who's making any impact, in my opinion, with regards to Democratic politics, is Gavin Newsom, because he's like, "I can also do things. I would like to see Congressional Democrats do something." And with all the love to Cory Booker, that's not a good enough answer for me. I don't want you to just prevent harm. I want you do something. We are in an age of American politics defined by Donald Trump that is about power and attention and strength. And there is none of that coming from congressional Democrats right now. And now is an opportunity to do that. Do something. Those fundraising numbers are existential. What are y'all waiting for? This is the most angry and the least I have ever identified with the Democratic Party. It's getting to the point where I hesitate to call myself a Democrat because it's just so ridiculous. They're so scared. Everything they say is so empty. Do something. Put your body in front of the freaking tank. I don't care. Like, what's the point of power if all you're going to do is yell at Robert Kennedy while he scrolls his phone? Do something.

Beth [00:31:06] The most interesting thing to me about the decision that Ezra Klein has made here and the way that the New York Times has wrapped itself around that decision is that this does resemble the Republican playbook in a sense. There's been all this conversation after the election about how the left needs a Joe Rogan, but that's not how the right came to power. Joe Rogan helped move some people, I think, over the finish line in the last election. But the right-wing ecosystem is not built on Joe Rogan. It is built on people tried and true to the Republican cause, putting enormous amounts of pressure on congressional Republicans to act. Enormous amounts of pressure. And this does, to me, feel like Ezra Klein stepping into it and saying, we're going to use some of their tactics now. I have a podium in the Democratic Party. People listen to me. My voice matters to them, and I am going to use it now to exert some enormous pressure. And I'm curious about how that will roll out, but I think that this op-ed is-- we're spending a block on it for a reason. I think it's really, really significant that he's saying it's not good enough anymore. I'm not going to play defense for you.

Sarah [00:32:17] Yeah, well, he also has capital to spend because the last time he made this open of a play was when he called on the Democratic Party to have an open convention and to abandon Joe Biden as the candidate in the spring before it went down in flames months later after the debate. So he has capital. This felt very much like one of those moments where he was like, okay, I'm going to say the thing. Because this talking to a Democratic senator, put your freaking name on something. This is the worst. I don't want to hear about Republicans quietly complaining about all their power being stripped away by Donald Trump. And I don't want to hear anonymous Democratic senators wondering what we should do. Grow a pair. God, you are freaking congressional representatives. What is wrong with you? Put your name on it and do something.

Beth [00:33:10] I would like to know a little bit more about what the something is. That would help me a lot. But I am not against this. That's where I sit. I'm not against it. What I hear Ezra Klein saying is someone should have a plan. What is the plan? And that's what I want to know. What is the plan?

Sarah [00:33:27] Here's the thing, Beth. This is the only thing, this is where I am going to pull my, I've been a Democrat a long time card. Any of the like I want to hear more, let's put a plan, let's be careful, it's just a death knell to anything in the Democrat party. We will take an inch and we will turn it into six months delay because it's a complex coalition. And so that's why I think Gavin Newsom is making impact. It doesn't need to be let's sit down and talk about it. No, this is what we're going to do. Everybody follow me. Let's go. It cannot be. We don't have time for a debate. It's September 8th. Do something, figure it out on the back end. A/B test this shit. That's what everybody does. Put a message out there, see which one goes viral. That's the new plan. Let's go. That's my proposal. No plan, just go.

Beth [00:34:26] I'm not going to follow someone who says, no plan, let's go. I want a plan. And Gavin Newsom has had a plan on the other side of his things. I don't love his style, but with the gerrymandering he came with a plan to that fight. He has put something in front of the voters. I cannot argue with the way that he's rolling that out. That's all I'm asking for. I want somebody to roll out something that has some meat on the bones.

Sarah [00:34:53] Yeah, but California is not Congress. It's such a different situation.

Beth [00:34:56] Correct, which means the stakes are way higher here. The stakes are very high around this. I'm not going to pretend they aren't just because I'm frustrated. The stakes were very high for Democrats. If you do this and it languishes, that is really, really bad for this party and where it's going. So you've got to make sure that you get the bounce and you win the argument. That is a lot of what he's saying here. You have to win the arguments. And I want something; I want the right people to come out and win the argument. I agree with you; there is not time for all the various factions of the Democrats to fight about which argument it is and what the exact wording is. So, to me, this is a moment when Schumer and Jeffries need to hold hands and jump on something. And they can even pick the wrong thing. I'm not going to hold them to being perfect in this. Pick the wrong things, but you do have to pick a thing and tell people we cannot vote for this until this happens. When this happens, we will get the doors back open and we will keep doing our good work. But this is the red line they have crossed for us. And they must uncross it in this specific way if they want our votes. I love it whenever I hear the clip of Nancy Pelosi saying, "I don't give my vote away for nothing ever." Good, what are you going to get? Just tell me the thing you're going to get from this. That's what I want.

Sarah [00:36:22] I just think at this point it's so existential. How much worse could it get? Truly, how much worse...

Beth [00:36:28] I don't want to ask that question, Sarah. Take that back. I think it can get a lot worse.

Sarah [00:36:33] No. How much worst could it get for the Democratic Party? Honestly, how much worse could it get? I don't know. Fifteen million in fundraising for a high stakes midterms. Pretty bad. I don't know about you, but I type stop for everybody who rolls through my text messages. I think that what I'm saying is like, look, I don't think it's Jeffries and Schumer. I don't think it's them.

Beth [00:37:02] I mean, they're not up for this. That's pretty clear.

Sarah [00:37:05] And I don 't think it's them. So to me I guess what I'm saying is we don't need a plan, we just need leadership. And I think that's sort of where Ezra settles at the end. Somebody who can command this moment. Listen, all y'all out there competing to be the next president of the United States, I'm not voting for anybody in the primary who has sat for months protecting their own political ass during this moment. I'm not doing it. I am not going to do it So don't come knocking at my door text message fundraising or otherwise if you've just carefully calibrated and triangulated your way to not take on any risk during this moment. That's a lot of what I respect about Gavin Newsom, at least he's willing to put his ass on the line, expose himself to the forward-facing threat that is opposing Donald Trump. Great, do it. That's what I'm looking for. And so, if it's John Ossoff whose ass is on the line in this midterm, fine. I don't care who it is. I don't think it's Schumer and Jeffries, but I want to see somebody just get out there and start talking. Not anonymously. Tell people what the argument is. Tell your argument, convince people. We don't need to get everybody together on a plan. It's such a vacuum. Learn from Donald Trump. It's such a vacuum of leadership inside the Democratic party. The first person who steps up and says, "I agree with Ezra and this is what the reason." And bam, that'll do it.

Beth [00:38:37] It's going to be an interesting week, right? Because somebody's going to do that.

Sarah [00:38:41] I got to hope so. Please God.

Beth [00:38:43] This is so directly provocative that somebody is going to, I think, step forward and say this is what we should do. I read this, I agree with it, and this is what I say. And I hope that they can consolidate some support and get somewhere.

Sarah [00:38:59] I hope you're right, but I feel less than hopeful just based on what happened last time. Ezra did something like this and everybody stayed on background about Joe Biden and his age up until he fell flat on his face during that debate.

Beth [00:39:14] Well, and I hope that all that pressure is cumulative. I hope it is on everyone's mind. It wasn't that long ago, truly we can remember.

Sarah [00:39:24] I hope so, too.

Beth [00:39:26] So we'll see. It's going to be an interesting week.

Sarah [00:39:31] Lord.

Beth [00:39:41] We always end our show with something Outside of Politics because we all need it. We really do. This weekend I had an experience that I'm going to file in a folder that you've been building on our Spicy Bonus episode, Sarah, because you have many times lately said people don't know how to act anymore. I went to a candlelight event. Have you been to one of these? It's dark, there are a gazillion LED candles everywhere and a string quartet that plays like pop music.

Sarah [00:40:10] Well, I've been to the one in Paris where it's real candles, one guy, and classical music. So kind of, but not really.

Beth [00:40:19] Okay, well, that's lovely for you. So I went to one, they're playing Queen in Cincinnati. Queen music. And the rules are simple because it is a dark room with the candles. No photos or videos until the last song. The musicians invite you in the last song to take pictures and videos. So all throughout the thing, we have people not knowing how to act. I don't know how many people dropped their phone. I've never heard so many phones dropped in one place before, but the phones are dropping. There's a lot of whisper talking. Chad is constantly like turning around like what is wrong with you. Then we have some shushing of the whisper talkers, but it comes to a head when they get to Bohemian Rhapsody. Because of course everybody wants to sing along with Bohemian Rhapsody. But it is a string quartet. So some people try to make it happen. They start singing kind of loudly. Like, we're going to do this. We're going to get the crowd with us. And then the shushers get real activated. So there are loud shushing of the people trying to make the thing happen.

[00:41:23] And so through the whole song, we have this kind of awkward back and forth. And then we kind of settle back down again until we get to the finale, which is We Are the Champions. And then they invited us to sing along, which I do think was a mistake because we are the champions versus are really difficult for a group sing-along. It's not like very rhythmic, he's sort of talking, so it's not a great one for a group sing-a-long. But I was just thinking about like we've got concert movies now, we've got Wicked out there, you get to see a lot of online discussion about are the musical theater kids singing out loud during Wicked? There are a lot places where I think people want to sing along, but not everyone wants it. And I'm wondering if we could develop some new rules around it.

Sarah [00:42:08] Well, I do think the candlelight string situation, we had a similar issue in Paris, which is you move at all in a dark room where you're just listening to strings and it's going to make noise. So I think part of the problem was these candle lights because they're very popular now. Like, there's a ton in Paris. There's a ton anywhere you are. I see ads for it all the time. And so I don't know if that is just-- in a dark room with a string instrument, any sound is going to reverberate. And that's just a very low threshold. If you're used to concerts and movie theaters, which I'm a sensitive baby, they're too loud for me. I wear earplugs everywhere. It's just people aren't used to the impact of any noise you make at all, especially in a quiet room. So I think like that's part of the problem, is often the places we're experiencing music they're just so loud. Everywhere is loud. Restaurants are loud, movie theaters are loud, concerts are loud This is why I carry earplugs in my purse at all times because everywhere is loud.

[00:43:19] We went to karaoke where you're supposed to sing along and it was so loud, it was physically painful. We left. We're just like forget it. This hurts. I want to go. So I think that part of the problem is just like a volume mismatch. I feel like everywhere we go, it's either too loud or too quiet. I don't know what we do about that, honestly. We all know singing in a group is like such a positive psychological experience for human beings. So a spontaneous sing-along is really special. I was kind of bummed when I saw the Taylor Swift Eras tour and people were just sitting there and not singing and experiencing it. I was like this is boring. I don't want to just sit and watch this like a movie. I want to feel like I'm at the concert. I wouldn't have appreciated people singing along with Wicked. That would have made me mad. I mean, they had to shut the theater down a bunch with Minecraft movie because people were yelling out so much.

Beth [00:44:22] This is really tricky, right? Because I agree totally. I love a sing-along. I really love being at a concert that becomes just a big sing-along. So I never think to myself I'm here to hear this vocalist; I don't want to hear anyone singing along. I never feel that way.

Sarah [00:44:37] I do sometimes, yeah.

Beth [00:44:40] So when is that? I would say when I saw Beyonce recently, I am happy to hear everybody sing along with Texas Hold'em. I don't really want to hear anybody sing along with Daughter. So I guess there are moments within an event even when I'm kind of like why don't we just be quiet and let her sing this one?

Sarah [00:45:02] Well, I know at Broadway I don't want you singing along.

Beth [00:45:05] Yeah, I totally agree about Broadway.

Sarah [00:45:07] I had a friend who saw Lea Michele and people were screaming behind her. I came to see Lea Michelle. Like, generational talent. That's why I'm here. I don't want to hear you. Listen, try any of this shit in a Broadway theater and see what happens to you. You will get shut down so quickly.

Beth [00:45:25] But like traveling productions, too. I feel like if there's a stage production happening, we should be quiet and listen.

Sarah [00:45:32] Well, it just depends. I just think it's also hard because there's so many like re-issuances, right? There's anniversary performances of Les Mis or anniversary performances of like musicals on the big screen. And to me, it's like if this is not anybody's like first time seeing it, the singing along would bother me less. I don't know. It's tough because everybody's going to feel differently. I think what we don't have any rules around or even understanding is just the idea that your behavior affects other people. That's what politeness is about. It's an acknowledgement that you owe a duty and responsibility with your behavior when you are in public, that it does not harm or disproportionately affect those around you. And I think for better or for worse, we've reached a place where the public or at least a large proportion of the public says, "No, I don't. I don't owe you shit." I mean, that's what I said on the spicy. It feels a lot like you owe me perfection and I owe you a shit in American public life right now. Like if the person, the candlelight performer had done anything that people felt like was out of the realm of expected behavior of a performer, they'd have lost their shit. But if they want to act out, it's fine. There's like a real entitlement situation going on here.

Beth [00:47:00] Maybe the only way to tackle this then is for the host of every event to just tell us.

Sarah [00:47:06] But people ignore them.

Beth [00:47:08] But I like that there are movies now where they will host a sing-along edition. I think that's really valuable. Just tell me. I was bummed when I saw the Eras tour in the theater too that nobody was up singing. I thought that we were going to do the thing and nobody did. And so if there had been like specific viewings of that where they said this is a sing-along viewing, that would have helped me.

Sarah [00:47:32] Do you not have the graduation issue?

Beth [00:47:35] The clapping, the hold your applause? Yeah.

Sarah [00:47:37] No, not clapping. Air horns, full on air horns. Please do not do this. And our middle school principal will spend like 15 minutes, don't do it, we're going to clap. They still do it. They still just blatantly ignore the request and do it anyway. And it's like, again, I understand how it says, like, I want to celebrate my child. Do you understand that every child doesn't get that level of celebration and that on a day that should be an important milestone for every child that walks across the stage-- although, don't get me started on the children walking across the stages that have in fact failed all their classes-- that there shouldn't be this differentiation, but they're not thinking about the other person. They're only thinking about themselves.

Beth [00:48:25] Well, and definitely only thinking about themselves, because I don't think many of those kids actually want that to happen either. I don't who that's for, except you, when you act like that at graduation. It's so crazy to me.

Sarah [00:48:36] Also, air horns are awful. It should be illegal. They're illegal, they're too loud. They are awful. I don't know how to reel this back in except for an articulation of you do owe a standard of behavior when you are in public. This fills the gambit of things I often complain about. I don't want to see your butt in public. I don't want to see your little literal butt cheeks in public. I just don't. I think that that's inappropriate.

Beth [00:49:12] I feel like the one place where we try to enforce something about this is sports because you can get away with so much as a sporting event. You can be loud, you can yell, you can sing along. Love a sing-along at a sporting event. That's the best. But there is a real sense of public shame if you break the very few rules that exist at a supporting event. Twitter loves it when somebody is inappropriate around a foul ball. If there's a kid going for that ball and an adult takes it, Twitter loves to shame that person. There was one this weekend. This guy gets the ball for his son. It's down. Several people are trying to get it. He gets it. He takes it to the kid. And this woman who was also going for it walks over to him and dresses him down to the point where the dad takes the ball from the kid and just gives it to her and she walks off triumphant. And of course, she is public enemy number one because of that. So that's one place where we're willing to do some public shaming around ugly behavior. And maybe it's just because there are so few roles, it's like, surely you can be a decent person around the few things we agree on at these events.

Sarah [00:50:20] Yeah, it's the cuss words billboarded across your chest or across your vehicle that you're driving around in public. It's so frustrating out there. I know this is Outside Politics, but when you got a president who says I can do what I want, not exactly helping the situation.

Beth [00:50:46] Well, we really appreciate you being here with us today and spending time with us. I never feel that sense of you owe me everything and I owe you nothing from our audience and I'm so grateful for that. I'm taking a few days off this week, but Sarah you'll be back here on Friday with a special episode.

Sarah [00:51:01] Yes, I'm so excited. If you've listened to Pantsuit Politics for any time, you have heard me mention my friends, Mike and Smith, and they are joining me for a very special episode on Friday about male-female friendships that I've wanted them to do for a long time. And I finally-- I didn't really have to talk them into it. I was just like, hey, we're going to do it next week. And they're like, that's not very much notice. I'm like, you'll be okay. So you're going to get to hear from Mike and smith on Friday. Also, I want to give everybody a heads up. My First Books book club is meeting on Thursday night at seven o'clock if you want to come discuss spy novels. We're discussing The Hunt for Red October and The Peacock and the Sparrow. So if you want to join me on that, the link will be in the show notes. Until then, have the best week available to you.