Okay- hello from the future. I’m behind on episodes and listened tonight. I thought it was interesting that this was recorded pre MSG rally. We all know Kill Tony now. And Jason Kelce had a big viral moment just today reacting to comments about Travis and Taylor.
90% of the time my husband is a good guy. He doesn't like either Trump or Kamala. He won't vote for Kamala because of her past history as the AG of California when she refused to abide by a judge's orders to release prisoners. We got into a serious row about it the other day. One bad judgement made by Kamala vs HUNDREDS done by Trump, who is also a wanna-be-dictator and wouldn't think twice about turning the military against American citizens. Over the last 5 years, my husband has been sucked into some of the right wing propaganda side of things, and won't listen to anything I suggest. One day we were in MY car that I was driving, and I had a Pantsuit Politics episode playing, and he yelled at me to shut it off. Say what now? I stopped the car and told him if he was going to speak to me like that, then he can get out and find his own way home. He's been very contrite since then. This shit stops when WE stop being soliticious and pandering to men.
Everyone above has said something I was going to say better than I could have. So I’ll just chime in with…
I’m throwing a murder mystery Halloween Party this weekend! And yeah. I’m worried about the number of people (25… but I once did one with 60+ so I think it’ll be ok) and the level of participation. But we throw a big party every year and I couldn’t just cut people out without hurting feelings. So we’re going to roll with it and see how it goes. For those on the “eh, I don’t know if I want to do this” side, I created characters for them based on their personalities/careers and gave them very little to do. So if they choose to skulk in a corner drinking, then they won’t affect the outcome. We are using the Deadly Inheritance game from Beth’s recommended source, MurdersIncorporated on Etsy. (That kit only goes up to 20 folks, hence my required creativity.)
I'm at about 1:17. Somebody is talking about how the only unprotected class is white males. I offer you this: Vegans. Vegans are not protected. I used to tease one of my (vegan) bosses about this every time I went through sexual harassment training.
I just want to say that I appreciate Chad hanging in there and speaking up for his point of view, especially when it became clear he wasn’t quite the level of Harris booster the other men are. He engaged in a thoughtful, respectful way that reminded me of the early “Sarah from the left/Beth from the right” days of PP!
This “Real Husbands of Pantsuit Politics” episode was a balm to my soul. Thank you all for being there and sharing your truths and supporting the good work of the amazing women of Pantsuit Politics.
Loved this episode. I heard Justice Abella (Jewish, Canadian justice…such a fascinating woman) on the Amicus podcast discussing Canada’s respect for not only individuals, but also group identity within the bounds of national moral standards. She says “You can’t have equality until you recognize everyone’s differences.” This works so well in all areas - race, gender, religion, and disability. I don’t know the answer to the white/male/Christian identity not feeling honored, but I wonder if the oppression felt is a window into the lived experience of other minority groups. Wonderful to unpack these questions.
One thing I'm frustrated/curious (frurious?) about is why we never hear "college educated white men" reported on as a demographic group when it comes to polling. We hear lots and lots about the ways Black men/Hispanics/suburban women might be breaking for Trump at various times. We hear how Black women are regularly critical to Dem success. And we hear how some groups might be tipping things this year: Arab/Muslim groups because of the Middle East and women because of abortion and young people because...young people.
In Wisconsin, where I live, we hear tons about the WOW counties - the conservative suburban counties outside of Milwaukee that are making slight shifts to the left, but have been a crucial republican stronghold for a long time. Well, those counties are way more populated than our rural counties and have a lot of white-collar men in them. Why when we talk about support for Trump are we always focused on blue collar white men with some implication of rural sensibility and never about the suburban white men who support him? It makes me a little bonkers.
I also want to acknowledge how much many other groups get overlooked in the common ways we break things down. In Wisconsin, the bluest of blue on our county map is a county that is almost entirely Native American Reservation land. In the middle of red all around it. And why haven't we had any discussion about how South Asians are polling this go round?
Everything I wrote makes me a little frustrated with the limitations of identity-based politics....but also still really frustrated that we don't talk enough about white-collar white male Trump supporters...
I just have to say (as someone who has never understood the hype around Beyonce): Folks expecting Beyonce to sing anytime she's in the public eye like it's their right to demand entertainment is appalling and, let's be honest, racist. Come to that, it's also sexist. It's worse than the "dancing bear" mentality mentioned in the episode. It's the expectation that Black people are there to serve us, and women are there to be decorative.
I personally don't care if Beyonce endorses Kamala, but then again, she's not out there for me. Presumably, she's there to appeal to her hive or whatever, who I would expect to behave respectfully towards her. Anyone who is pissy about her not singing, who accused her of "fooling people" into coming to the rally can't possibly be a true fan, can they?
I want to know what the husbands hear from other men in their lives about the election. When other men make negative comments about Kamala that are rooted in misogyny or racism, how do they respond?
I know that Daniel did not share a lot of particulars about his experience in that realm today because it would not be super hard to figure out who he was talking about and they didn't agree to have their dirty laundry aired online.
But I will say that one of the things I respect the most about Daniel is that he had family members that he does not see eye to eye with on these things, and he still checks in, tries to show up consistently, calls out trash when he hears it “you know that's not true,” gives ground when he can “I'm with you that the national debt is a problem, I’m not with you that we should buy gold bars” but tries to let politics be one part of his relationship not the whole thing.
Do we live hundreds of miles away from these people? Yes. Is avoiding politics part of it? Also yes.
I think of it in a matter of degrees and long game. Am I ever going to get these people to be with me in the way I’d like them to be? I kind of doubt it.
But maybe we could get to “I scowl inwardly rather than actively working to take people's rights away.” that doesn't feel like warm and fuzzy, but would make a real difference. I don't know that I'll get them to listen to Pantsuit Politics, but could we get from Rush Limbaugh to Bari Weiss? Yes, perhaps.
I had a fantasy for awhile that some day, scales would fall off their eyes and they would see Trumpism (and a lot of other things) for the con that it is, but I think maybe we're gonna have to back away from the edge one step at a time.
Thank you for all you do- the show has been such a lifeline since 2016 and thanks to the guys for sharing today!
I wish I could hear the conversation around identity without feeling defensive and discouraged.
I sure that a comment about identity in the context of a broader conversation like this is not meant to convey someone’s whole perspective on the topic. And it also hurts that this is a sticking point for people. Republicans are actively working to take away my child’s right to exist/ exist openly in the world- it’s not about what we can wear on a t-shirt without feeling judged or personality or a choice.
I agree. On the one hand I would love a world where we all just relate to one another as fellow humans. On the other hand, it is simply not possible as long as there are people being actively discriminated against because of their identities.
Okay- hello from the future. I’m behind on episodes and listened tonight. I thought it was interesting that this was recorded pre MSG rally. We all know Kill Tony now. And Jason Kelce had a big viral moment just today reacting to comments about Travis and Taylor.
90% of the time my husband is a good guy. He doesn't like either Trump or Kamala. He won't vote for Kamala because of her past history as the AG of California when she refused to abide by a judge's orders to release prisoners. We got into a serious row about it the other day. One bad judgement made by Kamala vs HUNDREDS done by Trump, who is also a wanna-be-dictator and wouldn't think twice about turning the military against American citizens. Over the last 5 years, my husband has been sucked into some of the right wing propaganda side of things, and won't listen to anything I suggest. One day we were in MY car that I was driving, and I had a Pantsuit Politics episode playing, and he yelled at me to shut it off. Say what now? I stopped the car and told him if he was going to speak to me like that, then he can get out and find his own way home. He's been very contrite since then. This shit stops when WE stop being soliticious and pandering to men.
Everyone above has said something I was going to say better than I could have. So I’ll just chime in with…
I’m throwing a murder mystery Halloween Party this weekend! And yeah. I’m worried about the number of people (25… but I once did one with 60+ so I think it’ll be ok) and the level of participation. But we throw a big party every year and I couldn’t just cut people out without hurting feelings. So we’re going to roll with it and see how it goes. For those on the “eh, I don’t know if I want to do this” side, I created characters for them based on their personalities/careers and gave them very little to do. So if they choose to skulk in a corner drinking, then they won’t affect the outcome. We are using the Deadly Inheritance game from Beth’s recommended source, MurdersIncorporated on Etsy. (That kit only goes up to 20 folks, hence my required creativity.)
I'm at about 1:17. Somebody is talking about how the only unprotected class is white males. I offer you this: Vegans. Vegans are not protected. I used to tease one of my (vegan) bosses about this every time I went through sexual harassment training.
Point made!
It was fun to hear from the "Spice Dudes!"
I just want to say that I appreciate Chad hanging in there and speaking up for his point of view, especially when it became clear he wasn’t quite the level of Harris booster the other men are. He engaged in a thoughtful, respectful way that reminded me of the early “Sarah from the left/Beth from the right” days of PP!
This “Real Husbands of Pantsuit Politics” episode was a balm to my soul. Thank you all for being there and sharing your truths and supporting the good work of the amazing women of Pantsuit Politics.
Loved this episode. I heard Justice Abella (Jewish, Canadian justice…such a fascinating woman) on the Amicus podcast discussing Canada’s respect for not only individuals, but also group identity within the bounds of national moral standards. She says “You can’t have equality until you recognize everyone’s differences.” This works so well in all areas - race, gender, religion, and disability. I don’t know the answer to the white/male/Christian identity not feeling honored, but I wonder if the oppression felt is a window into the lived experience of other minority groups. Wonderful to unpack these questions.
Appreciated hearing all the guys' perspective.
Outside politics chime in - we pass out hot apple cider and it’s popular. Doesn’t solve the sugar problem but it’s nice on a cold night
One thing I'm frustrated/curious (frurious?) about is why we never hear "college educated white men" reported on as a demographic group when it comes to polling. We hear lots and lots about the ways Black men/Hispanics/suburban women might be breaking for Trump at various times. We hear how Black women are regularly critical to Dem success. And we hear how some groups might be tipping things this year: Arab/Muslim groups because of the Middle East and women because of abortion and young people because...young people.
In Wisconsin, where I live, we hear tons about the WOW counties - the conservative suburban counties outside of Milwaukee that are making slight shifts to the left, but have been a crucial republican stronghold for a long time. Well, those counties are way more populated than our rural counties and have a lot of white-collar men in them. Why when we talk about support for Trump are we always focused on blue collar white men with some implication of rural sensibility and never about the suburban white men who support him? It makes me a little bonkers.
I also want to acknowledge how much many other groups get overlooked in the common ways we break things down. In Wisconsin, the bluest of blue on our county map is a county that is almost entirely Native American Reservation land. In the middle of red all around it. And why haven't we had any discussion about how South Asians are polling this go round?
Everything I wrote makes me a little frustrated with the limitations of identity-based politics....but also still really frustrated that we don't talk enough about white-collar white male Trump supporters...
Wait...what's a WOW county
Oh, sorry, it's not that exciting. It just stands for Waukesha, Ozaukee, and Washington counties - which border Milwaukee. I should have clarified. 🙃
May I suggest having a tea party as an event? I have a holiday and book themed one every year.
I just have to say (as someone who has never understood the hype around Beyonce): Folks expecting Beyonce to sing anytime she's in the public eye like it's their right to demand entertainment is appalling and, let's be honest, racist. Come to that, it's also sexist. It's worse than the "dancing bear" mentality mentioned in the episode. It's the expectation that Black people are there to serve us, and women are there to be decorative.
I personally don't care if Beyonce endorses Kamala, but then again, she's not out there for me. Presumably, she's there to appeal to her hive or whatever, who I would expect to behave respectfully towards her. Anyone who is pissy about her not singing, who accused her of "fooling people" into coming to the rally can't possibly be a true fan, can they?
I want to know what the husbands hear from other men in their lives about the election. When other men make negative comments about Kamala that are rooted in misogyny or racism, how do they respond?
I know that Daniel did not share a lot of particulars about his experience in that realm today because it would not be super hard to figure out who he was talking about and they didn't agree to have their dirty laundry aired online.
But I will say that one of the things I respect the most about Daniel is that he had family members that he does not see eye to eye with on these things, and he still checks in, tries to show up consistently, calls out trash when he hears it “you know that's not true,” gives ground when he can “I'm with you that the national debt is a problem, I’m not with you that we should buy gold bars” but tries to let politics be one part of his relationship not the whole thing.
Do we live hundreds of miles away from these people? Yes. Is avoiding politics part of it? Also yes.
I think of it in a matter of degrees and long game. Am I ever going to get these people to be with me in the way I’d like them to be? I kind of doubt it.
But maybe we could get to “I scowl inwardly rather than actively working to take people's rights away.” that doesn't feel like warm and fuzzy, but would make a real difference. I don't know that I'll get them to listen to Pantsuit Politics, but could we get from Rush Limbaugh to Bari Weiss? Yes, perhaps.
I had a fantasy for awhile that some day, scales would fall off their eyes and they would see Trumpism (and a lot of other things) for the con that it is, but I think maybe we're gonna have to back away from the edge one step at a time.
Good question, good question. <claps in Family Feud>
"phones are isolation machines" - so interesting how they connected social isolation to Trumpism.
Thank you for all you do- the show has been such a lifeline since 2016 and thanks to the guys for sharing today!
I wish I could hear the conversation around identity without feeling defensive and discouraged.
I sure that a comment about identity in the context of a broader conversation like this is not meant to convey someone’s whole perspective on the topic. And it also hurts that this is a sticking point for people. Republicans are actively working to take away my child’s right to exist/ exist openly in the world- it’s not about what we can wear on a t-shirt without feeling judged or personality or a choice.
I agree. On the one hand I would love a world where we all just relate to one another as fellow humans. On the other hand, it is simply not possible as long as there are people being actively discriminated against because of their identities.