Beth, I admit that I have been dissociating from the news these past months because my divorce proceedings and care for my children and work are taking most of my emotional energy (and sometimes more than I have). Without PP, I would have totally tuned out altogether. We are all at different levels of Maslow’s hierarchy at any given time and are doing our best to be on the right side of generational and political history. I know this news climate is taking a toll on your team and I’m sorry for that - you are good about taking time off and know that we want restorative breaks for all of you. I am so grateful for your work, but I know it comes at a cost. Thank you and peace to you 💜
'Here again is the theory: “If more people had said that Trump is a fascist from the beginning, he wouldn’t be in office having his personal paramilitary force occupy American cities.”'
But this is exactly what MSNBC's coverage did in the run-up to the 2024 election. They gave a ton of airtime to General Mark Milley's comments about Trump, right around the time when most of the states had opened their polls for early voting. Over and over, for hours, the presenters said, "He's a fascist". I remember, because my father had the channel on all day while I was visiting. And I remember how annoyed I felt.
The coverage was an inch deep and it meant nothing. I agreed with the statement, based on what I'd observed during Trump's first presidency, and I still didn't learn anything new from hearing, "He's a fascist", ad infinitum for hours. There was very little context for the audience to understand how serious Milley's remarks were. And the audience really needed that context.
I'm an elder Millenial who spent far too much of her youth on internet message boards, long before Facebook was invented. As far as I can tell, the word 'fascist' has been thrown around online conversation, for many years, and for very frivilous reasons. The word described Mussolini, yes. But it was also applied to George W Bush, the school principal, your parents when you got grounded, and the conservative-leaning troll in his late teens looking for a reaction and a dopamine boost.
I wouldn't call myself a 'resistance lib' per se, but I've been very afraid of what may come next since Trump was re-elected. The response I've had most often, when I've shared those fears, is: 'Surely, not?' So, perhaps I'm one of the Cassandras? I don't know. I do know that I take no joy in some of my fears or hunches having been correct. I would have welcomed, and felt relieved by, being wrong.
I have listened to your podcast forever (I remember you changing Party because of DT). I listen because I need to hear reasonable people discussing topics that they may disagree on, or agree on the end result but disagree on how to get there, and show the topics we should all agree on (human rights, The Constitution).
This could not have resonated more, Beth. I grew up in Central Illinois (contrary to the "blueness" of the state, much of the rural landscape feels quite like a 'red sea'), went to college on the east coast at a liberal, Ivy League institution, and since have lived in Southern Oregon and Southeast Texas. I've scarcely met a person in this wild, beautiful country who aligned perfectly with the "left" or "right" in all things.
Just earlier this month my "right leaning, but fairly centrist" husband and myself ("left leaning but fairly pragmatic") were discussing a number of issues and...I was attempting to challenge myself and him to actually analyze and articulate *how* we felt federal funds should be used, *what* we thought was the purview of state government vs federal government, and whether we leaned more towards 'personal liberty' in all things, or felt that the government had a duty and a role in controlling what is available to us and easy to access - vs what should not be so easily available or should be a bit more regulated.
He self-describes as more 'conservative' (a Mexican in Texas, the son of immigrants, and raised in the red districts around Houston), but then one day was like "why don't they (the federal gov't) put a little gym like this in every smalltown?" (referring to a nice little gym in a very small town set apart from any cities and which would otherwise have been a 'dessert' of resources and amenities). And I challenged him (without saying "that's pretty socialist"), to articulate more about that idea. To compare that idea to others he's rejected or critiqued. And so on.
I've always found those one-on-one conversations so fascinating. When someone feels comfortable and sees you as intellectual, respectful, and overall curious (and they don't feel like they have to regurgitate Fox news or be "aligned" with their side for the sake of appearance) - they let their guard down and just talk. And it's always some of the best and most informative conversations I get to have. I never lead with anything that associates me too strongly with 'liberal' views. And I get vulnerable and honest as well. Releasing *myself* from having to "align strongly" with "the left" for the sake of appearances.
Just started listening to the spicy bonus episode and it's in there too - not expecting everyone to have the same take and judging or ostracizing if you don't "get it right" - let people be complicated and curious and contain contradictions. Let conversations be dynamic and engaging and nuanced. Don't oust or 'cancel' someone just because they have one viewpoint or made one comment that isn't "just right." That's no way to build a coalition. And DEFINITELY no way to lead and govern in such a wide and diverse country.
It is great that you are doing this with your husband. It's a model for others.
Still there is a huge difference between the MAGA GOP party and the GOP party of Eisenhower. Few understand this, but it becomes really clear if you look up the policies of the GOP when Ike was president. Perhaps you and your husband could compare those policies and Ike's actions as president. THAT was when the GOP and Dem parties were similar, when dems & republicans could compromise and when republicans wanted to help all citizens and not just the rich. (I NEVER LIVED IN FEAR THEN!) I promise you if Eisenhower were here today, he would be furious with what the GOP Party has become. HE would have recognized them as nazis and FOUGHT to remove them. He NEVER forgot his troops and the sacrifices so many Americans made in WWII.
Unfortunately, journalists (since Reagan ended the Fairness Doc), moved increasingly to the right WITH the GOP. Opinions & beliefs became the center of their reporting. Worse, they focussed on presenting the increasingly right positions of the GOP and ignoring the successes of the Dems. When they did NOT mention T's background as a FAILED businessman, his history of bigotry, his endless lawsuits against people who worked with him or denied him something, his corruption, etc when he was running for president the first time, I knew they were unquestionably working for the MAGA GOP. When T was running for president, he showed so much bigotry, a love of dictators, spoke in word salads and showed no understanding of our laws or Constitution. Did the mainstream news media make note of this? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Beautifully written, thank you Beth! I needed this as well. I've been listening for several years (went to a live event in Gettysburg, PA a few years back). I'm with Pantsuit Politics for the long haul, regardless of the good times or bad. Keep up the great work!!
Thank you for this, Beth. I am one of those “this is really bad and we need to clearly say it” people. And I really appreciated you outlining your position.
Since I started listening, as a college student in 2017, I’ve admired you so much. I deeply appreciate the nuance and centeredness you bring to every single topic. I still want to be more like that, and I’m thinking of how I can own and adopt a posture like the one you’ve outlined here… of choosing to care and be polite and kind while also resisting what’s scary when it really arises.
What I appreciate about PP is that because your positions and tone are so carefully considered, I can share the podcast with my small-town Southern, Christian, moderate mother and not alienate her. That is SO valuable. The ripple effect of this podcast is truly powerful. I hone my perspective and talking points through listening to you, and then I use them when talking to my mom, and then she uses them with her conservative friends. That's huge.
I have a lot of thoughts about this post and the resulting conversation in the comments, but I don't really know what I want to say. I am a 'resistance lib' who spent 10 years working in abortion rights activism in Mississippi, though now I'm more behind the scenes because sustaining that level of fire for that long took almost everything I had. What I'm saying is I've got my bona fides in this area, but of course I always have more to learn. Everything you're saying Beth, is incredibly important. Resistance comes in many forms, and it takes all of us, in all our different capacities, with all our different gifts. I love Xergio's poem shared here, and I'll share one too:
miss bell and the marchers, from Brown Girl Dreaming by Jaqueline Woodson
They look like regular people
visiting our neighbor Miss Bell,
foil-covered dishes held out in front of them
as they arrive
some in pairs,
some alone,
some just little kids
holding their mothers’ hands.
If you didn’t know, you’d think it was just
an evening gathering. Maybe church people
heading into Miss Bell’s house to talk
about God. But when Miss Bell pulls her blinds
closed, the people fill their dinner plates with food,
their glasses with sweet tea and gather
to talk about marching.
And even though Miss Bell works for a white lady
who said I will fire you in a minute if I ever see you
on that line!
Miss Bell knows that marching isn’t the only thing
she can do,
knows that people fighting need full bellies to think
I love poetry; thank you for sharing. Your first paragraph is on my mind all the time. We lost a lot of people during Trump I that I think we could have influenced in a really positive way because our tone became so sharp. I do not want to make that mistake again to sort of preach to the choir because I do think it’s a real opportunity for us — particularly because of our ages, where we’re from, the lives we lead offline.
"okay, if you are saying it’s this bad, then I know it’s this bad." Exactly this. If I had only the "resistance libs" or MAGA to listen to I would have really hard time not checking out. My nervous system is not built for that. I'm so grateful for your and Sarah's voice and the struggle that you have clearly gone through to stay present and authentic this last year.
This really resonated with me, thank you. And thanks also for acknowledging the struggle some of us within the Pantsuit Politics community have felt this year. I freely admit it's been a struggle to listen to some of the episodes and some strategic fast-forwarding may have happened. But I have about a decade of being a listener and supporter which allowed me to both skip some episodes or segments and also remain loyal to this team. I think you touched on something which is that we aren't going to have a single answer, a single solution that will fix this. More people being resistance libs likely wouldn't have changed anything. What might have is more people being authentic, just as you mentioned. Less talking points, less scolding (omg please, less scolding!!!) more plainly stating our beliefs and calling out what we see as clear wrongs. I find that very impactful.
“Congress hasn’t lived up to its responsibilities, and the American public at large haven’t persistently demanded that the first branch of the government wake up.” This.
Beth, as one of those resistance libs, I have to tell you that how this comes across is “I still won’t take this as seriously as you do, even though you’ve been right.” It feels like saying, still, I will not do everything in my power to stop this, because that’s just not my vibe. More people stridently denouncing this administration would have helped—moderates and both-sides-ism has helped create permission structures for people on the fence. It reminds me deeply of Dr. King’s lament about moderate whites: “Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will."
And finally… the pluralism of MAGA is not due to intellectual openness. It is due to the ultimate purity test: total and complete fealty to one man. That’s all that matters in that coalition right now. That’s not pluralism, it’s transactionalism.
I do not believe that she is using Dr. King's words as a weapon. Here is an article from THE PREAMBLE about the clear connections of what happened in this nation after northern states abolished slavery that everyone should read.
We ALL have blind spots. They OFTEN exist because we think our own ideas & interpretations are right. In my leadership courses, I was taught that one of my most important jobs as a leader was to listen to the concerns of people with whom I was working and to be able to have difficult conversations with anyone. The result when I became a leader was better communication, team members who worked better together and results that were better than they would have been without this open process. Knowing what people disagree with makes it possible for us to learn how to better explain our own ideas as well as show us our blind spots. One of my favorite moments before retiring the second time was to hand over a discussion about our last task to my team without any input from me. This group had never stayed later than their work day. When I announced that time was up, NONE of them left. They continued until they came to agreement. My only input was to ensure equal participation. I left that meeting with joy.
This is why I think we have a problem, Emily. I am taking this seriously. I am working in my community. I am contacting my representatives. I am doing the things within my power to do. My expression is different than yours, therefore my influence is different than yours. Again, I believe in people working in different lanes and respecting each other’s lanes. It is maddening to me to be told that my understanding is shallow and my efforts hollow because they present differently than yours.
Beth, I’m not the person you’re responding to, but I would LOVE to hear more about what you are doing. I so value your perspective, and it would be really insightful (and probably inspiring to a lot of people) to hear about the actions you’re taking - moderate or otherwise.
I feel like the podcast has been really light on “so now what” action-focused discussions this year. You guys share so much of your personal lives, but we really don’t hear you talking about writing to members of congress or working locally, or what actions you see as effective and important in your own lane. So maybe that’s where some of the disconnect is coming.
I’m also still longing for the “what are the price of eggs, keep them accountable!” discussions that Sarah kept talking about right after the elections.
I am so confused by these comments. What is Beth doing? This! Look around at what she has built along with Sarah. Multiple times each week she counsels us, helps us clarify our thoughts, shares how she shows up for her family, friends, church community, and local school. I have heard her call to action and it is, build a community worth fighting for.
I think there are a few things at play here. I’m genuinely uncomfortable with performing activism. I don’t want people in my community to feel like anything I do is being done as “content.” I don’t want to be excluded from opportunities to help in my community in ways that are legitimately in the scope of my expertise because people will worry that I won’t treat confidential or sensitive information with care. I work a lot with kids, with people who need advice about the legal system (constantly explaining that my license is inactive but I’m happy to point people in the directions that I can), drawing on my HR experience - a lot of stuff that I just can’t talk about. I also find myself really bristling at what often feels like an “influencers perform activism” bandwagon. “You guys share so much of your personal lives” is true and also “so much” — not really? Deciding what to put out there and what to guard closely is hard and what feels right shifts all the time. Sharing concrete examples of what I do feels wrong in a bunch of ways and like not my highest and best contribution in others. Now…we have Senator Andy Kim on tomorrow, and it felt like a highest-best contribution to ask him what’s effective in calling representatives. So I think about this a lot and to the whole point of the post, I’m sure I make decisions differently than others in my shoes might.
It definitely sounds like a really hard balance of what to share and personalize vs what to talk about more generally! These para social relationships are tricky.
I can’t wait to hear from Andy Kim. Action-oriented questions like the one you mention are definitely what I’m craving these days (from everyone, not just PP)
Beth can answer for herself if she wants, but I would like to say as a listener I’m aware of how much Beth and Sarah both do in their local communities, in addition to speaking multiple times a week to thousands of us who look to them as an example of how to process current events, how to respond well, how to relate to our families, friends, and communities in a productive and loving manner. I know from being a listener that Beth is a leader in her church that serves her community well…I don’t know all the specifics, but I’ve gathered it involves giving food, shelter, etc to those who need it. I know that she and Chad spend a ton of their time in public schools teaching children to be future problem solvers, which goodness knows is of extreme importance for the state of the world. Those are just off the top of my head from paying attention over the years, and I’m sure there are countless other ways we don’t hear about on a regular basis. Those types of actions are an extremely important way of working for good in the face of the evil from the past ten years.
Beth, I've been a listener for 10 years. Your thoughts are always deliberate & thought provoking. This is how I hope I approach our crazy world. I appreciate your thoughtfulness & nuance & the feeling of calm you bring to me. The world has enough hot takes. Can't say how much I appreciate you, Sarah & this community. So happy to be a new executive producer. Thank you!!!
Beth, I admit that I have been dissociating from the news these past months because my divorce proceedings and care for my children and work are taking most of my emotional energy (and sometimes more than I have). Without PP, I would have totally tuned out altogether. We are all at different levels of Maslow’s hierarchy at any given time and are doing our best to be on the right side of generational and political history. I know this news climate is taking a toll on your team and I’m sorry for that - you are good about taking time off and know that we want restorative breaks for all of you. I am so grateful for your work, but I know it comes at a cost. Thank you and peace to you 💜
Sending you lots of love during this transition, Rebecca. That's a lot to navigate.
'Here again is the theory: “If more people had said that Trump is a fascist from the beginning, he wouldn’t be in office having his personal paramilitary force occupy American cities.”'
But this is exactly what MSNBC's coverage did in the run-up to the 2024 election. They gave a ton of airtime to General Mark Milley's comments about Trump, right around the time when most of the states had opened their polls for early voting. Over and over, for hours, the presenters said, "He's a fascist". I remember, because my father had the channel on all day while I was visiting. And I remember how annoyed I felt.
The coverage was an inch deep and it meant nothing. I agreed with the statement, based on what I'd observed during Trump's first presidency, and I still didn't learn anything new from hearing, "He's a fascist", ad infinitum for hours. There was very little context for the audience to understand how serious Milley's remarks were. And the audience really needed that context.
I'm an elder Millenial who spent far too much of her youth on internet message boards, long before Facebook was invented. As far as I can tell, the word 'fascist' has been thrown around online conversation, for many years, and for very frivilous reasons. The word described Mussolini, yes. But it was also applied to George W Bush, the school principal, your parents when you got grounded, and the conservative-leaning troll in his late teens looking for a reaction and a dopamine boost.
I wouldn't call myself a 'resistance lib' per se, but I've been very afraid of what may come next since Trump was re-elected. The response I've had most often, when I've shared those fears, is: 'Surely, not?' So, perhaps I'm one of the Cassandras? I don't know. I do know that I take no joy in some of my fears or hunches having been correct. I would have welcomed, and felt relieved by, being wrong.
"I still didn't learn anything from hearing 'he's a fascist' ad infinitum for hours" is a thought I think about a lot
I have listened to your podcast forever (I remember you changing Party because of DT). I listen because I need to hear reasonable people discussing topics that they may disagree on, or agree on the end result but disagree on how to get there, and show the topics we should all agree on (human rights, The Constitution).
Thank you so much, Brigid
🙌🙌🙌 you hit so many points for me! Just know that I appreciate your bravery.
This could not have resonated more, Beth. I grew up in Central Illinois (contrary to the "blueness" of the state, much of the rural landscape feels quite like a 'red sea'), went to college on the east coast at a liberal, Ivy League institution, and since have lived in Southern Oregon and Southeast Texas. I've scarcely met a person in this wild, beautiful country who aligned perfectly with the "left" or "right" in all things.
Just earlier this month my "right leaning, but fairly centrist" husband and myself ("left leaning but fairly pragmatic") were discussing a number of issues and...I was attempting to challenge myself and him to actually analyze and articulate *how* we felt federal funds should be used, *what* we thought was the purview of state government vs federal government, and whether we leaned more towards 'personal liberty' in all things, or felt that the government had a duty and a role in controlling what is available to us and easy to access - vs what should not be so easily available or should be a bit more regulated.
He self-describes as more 'conservative' (a Mexican in Texas, the son of immigrants, and raised in the red districts around Houston), but then one day was like "why don't they (the federal gov't) put a little gym like this in every smalltown?" (referring to a nice little gym in a very small town set apart from any cities and which would otherwise have been a 'dessert' of resources and amenities). And I challenged him (without saying "that's pretty socialist"), to articulate more about that idea. To compare that idea to others he's rejected or critiqued. And so on.
I've always found those one-on-one conversations so fascinating. When someone feels comfortable and sees you as intellectual, respectful, and overall curious (and they don't feel like they have to regurgitate Fox news or be "aligned" with their side for the sake of appearance) - they let their guard down and just talk. And it's always some of the best and most informative conversations I get to have. I never lead with anything that associates me too strongly with 'liberal' views. And I get vulnerable and honest as well. Releasing *myself* from having to "align strongly" with "the left" for the sake of appearances.
Just started listening to the spicy bonus episode and it's in there too - not expecting everyone to have the same take and judging or ostracizing if you don't "get it right" - let people be complicated and curious and contain contradictions. Let conversations be dynamic and engaging and nuanced. Don't oust or 'cancel' someone just because they have one viewpoint or made one comment that isn't "just right." That's no way to build a coalition. And DEFINITELY no way to lead and govern in such a wide and diverse country.
Let people be complicated and curious and contain contradictions! Put it on the billboards!
It is great that you are doing this with your husband. It's a model for others.
Still there is a huge difference between the MAGA GOP party and the GOP party of Eisenhower. Few understand this, but it becomes really clear if you look up the policies of the GOP when Ike was president. Perhaps you and your husband could compare those policies and Ike's actions as president. THAT was when the GOP and Dem parties were similar, when dems & republicans could compromise and when republicans wanted to help all citizens and not just the rich. (I NEVER LIVED IN FEAR THEN!) I promise you if Eisenhower were here today, he would be furious with what the GOP Party has become. HE would have recognized them as nazis and FOUGHT to remove them. He NEVER forgot his troops and the sacrifices so many Americans made in WWII.
Unfortunately, journalists (since Reagan ended the Fairness Doc), moved increasingly to the right WITH the GOP. Opinions & beliefs became the center of their reporting. Worse, they focussed on presenting the increasingly right positions of the GOP and ignoring the successes of the Dems. When they did NOT mention T's background as a FAILED businessman, his history of bigotry, his endless lawsuits against people who worked with him or denied him something, his corruption, etc when he was running for president the first time, I knew they were unquestionably working for the MAGA GOP. When T was running for president, he showed so much bigotry, a love of dictators, spoke in word salads and showed no understanding of our laws or Constitution. Did the mainstream news media make note of this? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Beautifully written, thank you Beth! I needed this as well. I've been listening for several years (went to a live event in Gettysburg, PA a few years back). I'm with Pantsuit Politics for the long haul, regardless of the good times or bad. Keep up the great work!!
Gettysburg! Thank you for sticking with us through so much
Thank you for this, Beth. I am one of those “this is really bad and we need to clearly say it” people. And I really appreciated you outlining your position.
Since I started listening, as a college student in 2017, I’ve admired you so much. I deeply appreciate the nuance and centeredness you bring to every single topic. I still want to be more like that, and I’m thinking of how I can own and adopt a posture like the one you’ve outlined here… of choosing to care and be polite and kind while also resisting what’s scary when it really arises.
Fwiw, I see that in you,. Brooke. I know that you often disagree with me, but I
feel from your comments like you hold open space for mutual respect and valuing different perspectives.
What I appreciate about PP is that because your positions and tone are so carefully considered, I can share the podcast with my small-town Southern, Christian, moderate mother and not alienate her. That is SO valuable. The ripple effect of this podcast is truly powerful. I hone my perspective and talking points through listening to you, and then I use them when talking to my mom, and then she uses them with her conservative friends. That's huge.
I have a lot of thoughts about this post and the resulting conversation in the comments, but I don't really know what I want to say. I am a 'resistance lib' who spent 10 years working in abortion rights activism in Mississippi, though now I'm more behind the scenes because sustaining that level of fire for that long took almost everything I had. What I'm saying is I've got my bona fides in this area, but of course I always have more to learn. Everything you're saying Beth, is incredibly important. Resistance comes in many forms, and it takes all of us, in all our different capacities, with all our different gifts. I love Xergio's poem shared here, and I'll share one too:
miss bell and the marchers, from Brown Girl Dreaming by Jaqueline Woodson
They look like regular people
visiting our neighbor Miss Bell,
foil-covered dishes held out in front of them
as they arrive
some in pairs,
some alone,
some just little kids
holding their mothers’ hands.
If you didn’t know, you’d think it was just
an evening gathering. Maybe church people
heading into Miss Bell’s house to talk
about God. But when Miss Bell pulls her blinds
closed, the people fill their dinner plates with food,
their glasses with sweet tea and gather
to talk about marching.
And even though Miss Bell works for a white lady
who said I will fire you in a minute if I ever see you
on that line!
Miss Bell knows that marching isn’t the only thing
she can do,
knows that people fighting need full bellies to think
and safe places to gather.
She knows the white lady isn’t the only one
who’s watching, listening, waiting,
to end this fight. So she keeps the marchers’
glasses filled, adds more corn bread
and potato salad to their plates,
stands in the kitchen ready to slice
lemon pound cake into generous pieces.
And in the morning, just before she pulls
her uniform from the closet, she prays,
God, please give me and those people marching
another day.
Amen.
I love poetry; thank you for sharing. Your first paragraph is on my mind all the time. We lost a lot of people during Trump I that I think we could have influenced in a really positive way because our tone became so sharp. I do not want to make that mistake again to sort of preach to the choir because I do think it’s a real opportunity for us — particularly because of our ages, where we’re from, the lives we lead offline.
I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said, but I want to acknowledge how much I appreciated this.
"okay, if you are saying it’s this bad, then I know it’s this bad." Exactly this. If I had only the "resistance libs" or MAGA to listen to I would have really hard time not checking out. My nervous system is not built for that. I'm so grateful for your and Sarah's voice and the struggle that you have clearly gone through to stay present and authentic this last year.
This really resonated with me, thank you. And thanks also for acknowledging the struggle some of us within the Pantsuit Politics community have felt this year. I freely admit it's been a struggle to listen to some of the episodes and some strategic fast-forwarding may have happened. But I have about a decade of being a listener and supporter which allowed me to both skip some episodes or segments and also remain loyal to this team. I think you touched on something which is that we aren't going to have a single answer, a single solution that will fix this. More people being resistance libs likely wouldn't have changed anything. What might have is more people being authentic, just as you mentioned. Less talking points, less scolding (omg please, less scolding!!!) more plainly stating our beliefs and calling out what we see as clear wrongs. I find that very impactful.
“Congress hasn’t lived up to its responsibilities, and the American public at large haven’t persistently demanded that the first branch of the government wake up.” This.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thinking. I appreciate your voice so much.
Beth, as one of those resistance libs, I have to tell you that how this comes across is “I still won’t take this as seriously as you do, even though you’ve been right.” It feels like saying, still, I will not do everything in my power to stop this, because that’s just not my vibe. More people stridently denouncing this administration would have helped—moderates and both-sides-ism has helped create permission structures for people on the fence. It reminds me deeply of Dr. King’s lament about moderate whites: “Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will."
And finally… the pluralism of MAGA is not due to intellectual openness. It is due to the ultimate purity test: total and complete fealty to one man. That’s all that matters in that coalition right now. That’s not pluralism, it’s transactionalism.
When people are using the words of Dr. King as a weapon against people like Beth, there really is a problem.
I do not believe that she is using Dr. King's words as a weapon. Here is an article from THE PREAMBLE about the clear connections of what happened in this nation after northern states abolished slavery that everyone should read.
https://open.substack.com/pub/sharonmcmahon/p/how-ice-is-mimicking-19th-century?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web
We ALL have blind spots. They OFTEN exist because we think our own ideas & interpretations are right. In my leadership courses, I was taught that one of my most important jobs as a leader was to listen to the concerns of people with whom I was working and to be able to have difficult conversations with anyone. The result when I became a leader was better communication, team members who worked better together and results that were better than they would have been without this open process. Knowing what people disagree with makes it possible for us to learn how to better explain our own ideas as well as show us our blind spots. One of my favorite moments before retiring the second time was to hand over a discussion about our last task to my team without any input from me. This group had never stayed later than their work day. When I announced that time was up, NONE of them left. They continued until they came to agreement. My only input was to ensure equal participation. I left that meeting with joy.
This is why I think we have a problem, Emily. I am taking this seriously. I am working in my community. I am contacting my representatives. I am doing the things within my power to do. My expression is different than yours, therefore my influence is different than yours. Again, I believe in people working in different lanes and respecting each other’s lanes. It is maddening to me to be told that my understanding is shallow and my efforts hollow because they present differently than yours.
Beth, I’m not the person you’re responding to, but I would LOVE to hear more about what you are doing. I so value your perspective, and it would be really insightful (and probably inspiring to a lot of people) to hear about the actions you’re taking - moderate or otherwise.
I feel like the podcast has been really light on “so now what” action-focused discussions this year. You guys share so much of your personal lives, but we really don’t hear you talking about writing to members of congress or working locally, or what actions you see as effective and important in your own lane. So maybe that’s where some of the disconnect is coming.
I’m also still longing for the “what are the price of eggs, keep them accountable!” discussions that Sarah kept talking about right after the elections.
I am so confused by these comments. What is Beth doing? This! Look around at what she has built along with Sarah. Multiple times each week she counsels us, helps us clarify our thoughts, shares how she shows up for her family, friends, church community, and local school. I have heard her call to action and it is, build a community worth fighting for.
I think there are a few things at play here. I’m genuinely uncomfortable with performing activism. I don’t want people in my community to feel like anything I do is being done as “content.” I don’t want to be excluded from opportunities to help in my community in ways that are legitimately in the scope of my expertise because people will worry that I won’t treat confidential or sensitive information with care. I work a lot with kids, with people who need advice about the legal system (constantly explaining that my license is inactive but I’m happy to point people in the directions that I can), drawing on my HR experience - a lot of stuff that I just can’t talk about. I also find myself really bristling at what often feels like an “influencers perform activism” bandwagon. “You guys share so much of your personal lives” is true and also “so much” — not really? Deciding what to put out there and what to guard closely is hard and what feels right shifts all the time. Sharing concrete examples of what I do feels wrong in a bunch of ways and like not my highest and best contribution in others. Now…we have Senator Andy Kim on tomorrow, and it felt like a highest-best contribution to ask him what’s effective in calling representatives. So I think about this a lot and to the whole point of the post, I’m sure I make decisions differently than others in my shoes might.
It definitely sounds like a really hard balance of what to share and personalize vs what to talk about more generally! These para social relationships are tricky.
I can’t wait to hear from Andy Kim. Action-oriented questions like the one you mention are definitely what I’m craving these days (from everyone, not just PP)
Beth can answer for herself if she wants, but I would like to say as a listener I’m aware of how much Beth and Sarah both do in their local communities, in addition to speaking multiple times a week to thousands of us who look to them as an example of how to process current events, how to respond well, how to relate to our families, friends, and communities in a productive and loving manner. I know from being a listener that Beth is a leader in her church that serves her community well…I don’t know all the specifics, but I’ve gathered it involves giving food, shelter, etc to those who need it. I know that she and Chad spend a ton of their time in public schools teaching children to be future problem solvers, which goodness knows is of extreme importance for the state of the world. Those are just off the top of my head from paying attention over the years, and I’m sure there are countless other ways we don’t hear about on a regular basis. Those types of actions are an extremely important way of working for good in the face of the evil from the past ten years.
Thanks for both this comment, Rebecca, and for the time and care you’ve spent with us to be able to make it
Leave it to Dr King to put this idea perfectly into words.
Beth, I've been a listener for 10 years. Your thoughts are always deliberate & thought provoking. This is how I hope I approach our crazy world. I appreciate your thoughtfulness & nuance & the feeling of calm you bring to me. The world has enough hot takes. Can't say how much I appreciate you, Sarah & this community. So happy to be a new executive producer. Thank you!!!
Theresa, thank you so much for your longtime and very generous support.
I have such gratitude for your words.