Trust But Verify: Teen Driving with Dr. Charlie Klauer

What Research on Teen Driving Shows and What Parents are Getting Wrong

When my first daughter was born, it took me too long to realize that I needed to teach her how to sleep--that sleep is a skill, and I am the skill-builder. And then I realized that although I had slept every day of my life for 3 decades, I had no idea how to teach another person to sleep. Marc Weissbluth’s Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child became my Bible for years.

When that same daughter started preparing to get her driver’s permit, I realized again that she needed a skill, and I am the skill-builder. Even though I’ve been driving for 3 decades, I have no idea how to teach another person to drive. Marc Weissbluth didn’t have me covered this time. That’s why Sarah and I were thrilled when long-time listener and executive producer Kelly Stulce introduced us to Dr. Charlie Klauer.

Dr. Klauer has been studying teen driving for 15 years, and she’s in the process of writing the parenting Bible we all need.

Topics Discussed

• Why teen driving is more dangerous than most parents realize

• How to structure the learner's permit period for maximum practice

• Night driving, interstate driving, and other milestone moments to sequence carefully

• How parents' own driving habits shape teens behind the wheel

• Apps and tools for monitoring teen drivers without being in the car

• Why giving a teen "their own" car may increase risky driving

• At what age teens should start learning — and why waiting until 18 isn't the answer

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Episode Resources

Dr. Klauer’s survey

Join us for our Live Show in Minneapolis. Get your tickets to the show, or to join us virtually here.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Sarah: This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

[00:00:09] Beth: This is Beth Silvers.

[00:00:10] Sarah: You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. Today, we’re bringing you an episode that we really needed, like personally. We’re talking about one of the most dangerous things our kids will ever do, and one of the things we feel least prepared for as parents- teen driving. Our longtime beloved listener and executive producer, Kelly, introduced us to today’s guest, Dr. Dr. Charlie Klauer, who has spent 15 years doing research on how teens drive. Not how they say they drive, how they actually drive, and we are so excited for you to hear our conversation about what she’s learned. And Outside of Politics, we’re going to take a trip down memory lane and talk about our first cars.

[00:00:49] Beth: Before we get started, if you’re not able to drive to Minneapolis or otherwise join us there live, we still would love for you to be part of our one and only live show this year, which is taking place on August 29th. A virtual ticket will let you watch live or any time after when you’re able to really snuggle up on your couch with a crispy Diet Coke or a cup of coffee or whatever your beverage of choice is. We want you to come so much that we’re running a special right now. If you buy a virtual ticket, we’ll give you a second one at half price to share with a friend. We hope that makes it feel even more like being there in person because you’ll have someone to chat with about it afterward. All the links you need are in the show notes.

[00:01:25] Sarah: Up next, Dr. Charlie Klauer. Dr. Charlie Klauer, welcome to Pantsuit Politics. One of our listeners, Kelly, reached out and said to us after she heard our conversation about teen driving, “I know exactly who you should talk to.” Tell us why she knew we should talk to you. Tell everybody about your area of expertise.

[00:01:45] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I am a teen driving expert. I have been doing teen driving research or transportation research for the last 15 years, and in that timeframe, we have done several naturalistic driving studies of teen drivers where we have instrumented their vehicles with cameras and data acquisition systems, so we knew exactly how fast they were going, how hard they were braking, where they were on the map in the world, and continuously for their first year of driving.

[00:02:13] Sarah: Wow.

[00:02:14] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And during that, with that data and using all of those data, we have really learned a lot about the risks facing teen drivers and what their parents have been doing and can do and should do moving forward to really try to keep our teen drivers as safe as possible.

[00:02:31] Sarah: So my first question is, what do we get right? What do we understand well and correctly about teen driving, the risk, and instructing them? Oh my gosh, you’re hesitating. That concerns me.

[00:02:42] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah. I’m thinking about that. I think we have a normal curve or a continuum of parents out there, and many of them really want to believe that their teens are safe drivers and that we don’t need to be concerned about them and that they’re going to do great. And there is a population of teen drivers who are safe and are well, are driving well and driving safe and are able to minimize their own risks of being involved in a crash. But there are other teen drivers who are not. And one of the things that we have learned about teen drivers is that when their parents are in the car, they drive a lot more like their parents than when their parents are not in the car. And so just because you as a parent believe that your teen is safe does not necessarily mean that’s true when you’re not in the car with them. So we as parents need to trust but verify, and there’s a lot of ways to do that, and we can talk about that certainly, but driving is one of the things that is the biggest killer of our teens. Motor vehicle crashes kill more of our adolescents than anything else.

[00:03:50] Sarah: Wow.

[00:03:50] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And certainly injuries are also very high. So this is a very important aspect of growing up and becoming an adult, and it’s something that we as parents put them in their car seats, we buckle their car seats, we make them wear their bicycle helmets. We are very safety-conscious all of their lives, and driving is not where we should be dropping the ball. We really need to still be paying attention and monitoring and making sure that our teens are as safe as possible.

[00:04:20] Beth: I wonder if we drop the ball because it really is overwhelming to think about how dangerous driving is.

[00:04:25] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Oh it’s very scary.

[00:04:25] Beth: I had a conversation with my daughters recently and my older daughter just got her permit. And I said, “ Unless you are in the military or law enforcement or a first responder, there are very few things in your life you’ll do that are more dangerous than driving a car. So we really have to take this seriously.” And afterwards, I thought, “Did I lay that on a little thick?” So I wonder how you set the stage. What kinds of conversations do you recommend having before they get behind the wheel about the risks here?

[00:04:54] Dr. Charlie Klauer: So, yeah, and you can also scare them to the point where they don’t want to drive, and that’s also not a great thing either. I like to think about driving as any other skill. You watch your child learn to play a musical instrument. You watch your child learn to play a sport. And what do they do? They practice. They practice and practice. And the more practice they have, the better they are. And that’s also true with driving. Driving is a skill like anything else, and they need to practice. And so one of the things that I really have been thinking about a lot is how do we allow our teens to get the practice that they need and also remain safe, and safe as possible. So that is the learner’s permit. When parents are riding with their teens, and I get it, parents, it’s extremely scary.

[00:05:40] Sarah: So stressful.

[00:05:42] Dr. Charlie Klauer: It’s very scary to ride with them.

[00:05:44] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:05:44] Dr. Charlie Klauer: But you need to start out slow. And one of the things that my husband and I did, which actually was my husband’s idea, and I thought it was brilliant was that the very first time that my son got behind the wheel, it was in an empty parking lot, which you would expect, but he was not allowed to use the accelerator. He could only use the brake.

[00:06:03] Sarah: Oh.

[00:06:04] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And he just maneuvered around the parking lot with the brake only, and my husband had him turn, use the left, you’re going to turn left. Use the left turn signal. Right turn signal. Windshield wipers. Lights. Radio. All the things that you need to know where they are in the car while you’re driving, and he just practiced that over and over. No accelerator, just the brake, in and out of parking spots, et cetera.

[00:06:30] Sarah: That’s a good idea.

[00:06:31] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And so when Gareth finally did get on a public road, he knew where all that was. That wasn’t something he was fumbling around for.

[00:06:39] Sarah: I like that.

[00:06:40] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And then next he did use the accelerator in the parking lot, and got up to a little bit faster speeds and learned control maneuvers. And then they went out on the public road.

[00:06:49] Beth: The first thing I had my daughter do was just take her foot off the brake too. And her face her eyes were so wide that the car moved at all without touching the accelerator. It was a very funny moment.

[00:06:59] Sarah: Yeah. You realize how little they know the second you put them behind the wheel about how a car functions.

[00:07:03] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yes.

[00:07:04] Sarah: Mine tried to put both feet on; one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake. Both of them did that. Yeah.

[00:07:10] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah. It is very interesting. You think that they know a lot more than they really do, and that’s true, I think, throughout the entire process.

[00:07:17] Sarah: That’s just true in parenting. The knowledge gap is real, man. That was a lot of what I struggled with toddlers is you feel like they should know, but they don’t know. Just because they can talk doesn’t mean they know. I think that’s a really big one. What I’ve tried to do with my second son is just do some golf carts. Golf carts are a decent start. You get the handle of it. And I didn’t do any of that with my first son, and I wish I had.

[00:07:39] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah. No, just the pedals and where the pedals are, and getting that motion. And, even, those tiny little electric cars that they drive around as toddlers.

[00:07:47] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:07:48] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Understanding how that wheel turns and that moves that vehicle, that’s also a skill.

[00:08:04] Sarah: So what is your stance on driving schools? Because my oldest son took driving lessons from one of our local schools, and I felt like that helped him a lot. But is that me just outsourcing because I don’t want to be in the car and see what he’s actually doing?

[00:08:16] Dr. Charlie Klauer: No. I do think you should ride with your son so you know what he’s doing. But no, I think professional driving schools where they are teaching behind-the-wheel classes and skills that’s great. That is an outstanding thing to do. There are other schools that teach advanced driving.

[00:08:33] Sarah: I need one of those because I’m hitting a wall with interstate driving. It gives me so much anxiety.

[00:08:40] Dr. Charlie Klauer: So interstate driving, I think that could be done in the schools that we’re talking about. In the professional behind-the-wheel type classes. They should be taking them out on the interstate, for sure.

[00:08:48] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:08:49] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I’m talking about some advanced skills training like skid training and recovering from loss of control and skidding and ice and snow and things like that or hydroplaning. The results and the research on those are mixed in that if a teen goes through that, then they also believe they can recover, and they end up driving in those conditions more often than they would’ve otherwise. And it isn’t necessarily even very skilled police officers get in situations that they can’t recover from.

[00:09:20] Sarah: Can I be honest? I don’t know how to do that.

[00:09:23] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah.

[00:09:23] Sarah: I don’t think I know how to come out of a hydroplane.  Yeah. I’m just being honest.

[00:09:27] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And how long have you been driving? And driving safely?

[00:09:30] Sarah: Yeah, for 30 years.

[00:09:31] Dr. Charlie Klauer: The point is that you’re trying not to get into those situations.

[00:09:33] Sarah: Yeah. You avoid them.

[00:09:35] Beth: Can you talk us through that progression? So from the parking lot to starting to drive. What are the stages of additional responsibility? So part of what I’ve been thinking about is when do we let her drive at night? How do we progress here?

[00:09:49] Dr. Charlie Klauer: So during the learner’s permit, when you are still with your child and teaching them to drive, I highly recommend that they get some practice at night. And in the state of Virginia, where I’m from, of the 45 hours, 10 of them are supposed to be at night.

[00:10:04] Sarah: Kentucky’s like that too.

[00:10:05] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And every state is different. But they really need, during that learner’s permit, to get exposure to as many different environments as possible, and driving at night is one of them. And we’ve done a lot of research in this space where we’re quite certain that part of the reason why that risk goes up so much at night is not just that there’s a bunch of kids in the car and they’re doing a wide variety of other things, but they really do not understand how little they can see even with headlights. They are actually nearly out-driving their headlights when they’re speeding. And there’s a lot of things they’re missing.

[00:10:38] Sarah:  Out-driving your Headlights.

[00:10:39] Beth: I know. I thought, “I’m going to hold onto that phrase.”

[00:10:42] Sarah: I’m going to hold onto that.

[00:10:44] Dr. Charlie Klauer: They really don’t understand how much they’re missing, and that’s why we do see very high crash rates. And in our data, we also see near crashes and other safety critical event type things, and a lot of that is occurring at night, and certainly in those early months of driving when they just really don’t have the experience yet. So as much practice during learner’s permit at night is a really good idea. But once they do start driving independently, I do recommend to parents that they only allow them to drive independently during daylight hours for the first three to six months.

[00:11:15] Sarah: Okay.  That’s good advice.

[00:11:17] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Give them practice when they really can see, and then slowly, once they’ve been driving and they’ve driven successfully, then you start, maybe dusk and maybe a little bit into darkness. But even 10:00 to midnight or midnight it’s not necessary, right?

[00:11:31] Sarah: Yeah. They shouldn’t be out anywhere. They’re just getting into trouble.

[00:11:35] Dr. Charlie Klauer: No, it’s not a good idea.

[00:11:37] Sarah: Here’s where I’m at. So my 16-year-old has now been driving for about three, four months. So but he’s driving around my town in a stick shift at 35 miles per hour. You know what I’m saying? He’s just not going a lot of places. So we’re trying to build up to the interstate driving and all of this. But I am interested in this trust but verify situation you have since he’s driving independently so much. Tell me more about that.

[00:12:04] Dr. Charlie Klauer: So there are a wide variety of different cellphone apps or insurance apps that you could get. A lot of parents I know use Life360. I do.

[00:12:14] Sarah: I have that.

[00:12:15] Dr. Charlie Klauer: If you pay for Life360, you get driving information.

[00:12:19] Sarah: Okay.

[00:12:19] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Including how fast they’re going. Every trip it’ll tell you if they exceeded the speed limit. It’ll tell you if they had a hard braking event and where it was. They will tell you if they’ve been using their phone while they were driving And- Oh, I’m

[00:12:34] Sarah: I’m going to do that.

[00:12:34] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I use that.

[00:12:36] Sarah: Okay.

[00:12:36] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I use that. We as parents, we are stalkers for sure. I am guilty. Guilty as charged. I do watch a little bit to see-

[00:12:43] Sarah:  Because you did research and research, and then you actually had to teach a kid to drive. So was there anything that you were like, “Oh my gosh, even I didn’t understand it until I actually had to teach my son”?

[00:12:54] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yes. And one of those things is how the questions that he had, the knowledge gap was significant, and was more than I thought. I thought he understood. And then certainly after we practiced for over a year with Garrett.

[00:13:07] Sarah: Wow.

[00:13:07] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And then he did start driving independently, but we did not allow him to have his own car. So he continued to drive my husband and I around quite a bit, even after he got his license, which I strongly recommend. And there was still conversations about protected arrows, protected left turns. There was still conversations about merge ramps. There was still conversations about speed limits. There was still a fair bit he didn’t know. And certainly when he drove in newer environments and environments he wasn’t familiar with, there were also other questions that came up. And so that’s another piece of advice for parents, is once they are driving independently, that doesn’t mean your job is over. You really still need to continue to ride. And certainly, that first few times they drive at night, those first few times they’re driving in a new location or on the interstate or to a specific shopping mall that may be an hour and a half away, it might be good to ride with them a few times before they do it on their own.

[00:14:08] Sarah: I needed to hear that because I hate riding with him, so I just try to avoid it.

[00:14:11] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I know ...

[00:14:12] Sarah:  I needed this admonish. Okay. I’ll do better.

[00:14:14] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I do hear you. It is scary.

[00:14:17] Sarah: It’s so scary.

[00:14:18] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I guarantee you that they’re driving much more safely with you than if you’re not there.

[00:14:22] Beth: Tell us in this teaching period, as they’re learning, whether they have their permit or they have a new license and we’re still with them a lot, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you’ve seen parents make in that kind of coaching role?

[00:14:35] Dr. Charlie Klauer: So we all have our own biases. And so this is where this normal curve, the whole gamut of skills and talents comes in because we all drive and we all see those people who are speeding and who are driving aggressively and who don’t wear their seatbelt, et cetera, and those are parents. And teens who watch their parents drive that way are going to drive that way. And so we have witnessed and heard parents coaching their kids on driving that way.

[00:15:04] Beth: People who know they’re being recorded are being unsafe and they don’t-- I don’t understand.

[00:15:10] Sarah: If they’re being recorded for a year, Beth, it just becomes so normalized, I guess so they forget.

[00:15:13] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah, they do forget.

[00:15:14] Sarah: But this makes perfect sense to me. This is all parenting. They do what you do not what you say.

[00:15:19] Beth: That’s right.

[00:15:19] Dr. Charlie Klauer: That’s right. And parents have their own believe that this is a safe way to drive. And so they’re teaching their teen that.

[00:15:26] Sarah: So maybe the parents should take the driver’s test first before giving it to their kids.

[00:15:33] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah. It is very interesting to see that.

[00:15:36] Sarah: Wait, I have an idea. What if you, before you started teaching your kids, turned on Life360 and got your own driver’s report.

[00:15:46] Dr. Charlie Klauer: See, this is good. And would you want to see your teen drive that way?

[00:15:49] Sarah: No.

[00:15:49] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:15:52] Beth: So our own driving is one factor. Underestimating that sort of knowledge gap is another thing to be mindful of. What else would you put in a best practice or definitely avoid bucket?

[00:16:06] Sarah: Thinking you’re done when they’re already independent and they have their license. That was me.

[00:16:10] Dr. Charlie Klauer: One of the biggest things I think, you know, parents, they’re tired of driving their kids around. And so once their teen has their license, they feel like, “Oh my gosh, now they can drive themselves and I don’t necessarily have to go everywhere all the time.” And they also give them a car. And we have evidence and research and data to suggest that teens who have their own car also drive more risky than teens who have to ask their parents

[00:16:37] Sarah: I made all these mistakes, Dr. Klauer. You’re really kind of... I failed.

[00:16:42] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I would not recommend giving your teen access. Now, you can purchase another car for them, but maybe don’t frame it that it’s theirs.

[00:16:49] Sarah: Oh no, I didn’t do that. I said, “This is my car. I’m letting you drive.” Yeah. No, I did not say, “This is your car.” No. This is my car that I’m letting you drive. That’s right.

[00:16:56] Beth: What is the distinction there in terms of the impact on their behavior?

[00:17:01] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I think I need more research. I need more data to really analyze that, but my hypothesis is that asking for the keys every time and going through the whole thing about where I’m going, who I’m with, et cetera, changes that equation a little bit in that they still know that you are paying attention, and they if anything goes wrong, then they may not be able to go the next time.

[00:17:21] Beth: So we don’t want them to be casual about it. Okay.

[00:17:24] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah. It is a privilege, and they need to think about it that way. And they are driving a two, three or 4,000 pound vehicle down the highway that can cause a lot of damage to them, to others, and it’s very important that they understand that responsibility.

[00:17:41] Sarah: And I’ll tell you another blind spot that happens is it’s like my son, he’s especially because his he drives a Mini Cooper that’s a stick shift. Now, I picked the stick shift because I thought you can’t be on your phone and drive a stick shift. Yeah. Not at 35 miles an hour. Not without a lot of practice. But now he’s so comfortable in his car that he doesn’t want to drive a bigger car on the interstate. He’s getting where he’s kind of locked in on he feels comfortable only in that car as opposed to being comfortable driving no matter the car. You know what I mean? I think that’s kind of a risk, too. Because you really want them to be comfortable driving, not comfortable with the car. You see what I’m saying?

[00:18:19] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I do see what you’re saying.

[00:18:20] Sarah: Because you have to learn every car’s a little different. That’s true. The gas is different. The accelerator is different. Like, all that is different ...

[00:18:27] Beth:  I guess  the question I would have piggybacking off of that is what stage is that? I need a chart. You know what I mean? Where it’s like first we’re in the parking lot. And then we’re on a street, and then we’re here, and then we do a night, and then we move to a different car.

[00:18:41] Sarah: We do a rain, yeah.

[00:18:44] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah. I like the chart idea. I think that’s really good. But as far as being able to drive multiple cars or just one car, I think there may be a timeframe where just driving one car and being really comfortable and understanding that one car is okay until-

[00:18:57] Sarah:  Oh, well good. Finally something I didn’t totally screw up. That makes me feel a little bit better.

[00:19:02] Dr. Charlie Klauer: And maybe later forcing multiple cars and understanding how different cars may respond.

[00:19:07] Sarah: Beth’s request for a chart is a good transition. So you have a request of our audience. We have a lot of parents in our audience that have either taught a teen to drive or are in the process of teaching a teen to drive, and you have created a survey so that we can ask these parents, what are you looking for? What do you need? Do you need a chart? Do you need a schedule? What are you missing? What was frustrating? Because you’re hoping to take all this data and make a more practical guide for parents. And so we’re going to link to that survey in the show notes for people. Because people have a lot. Listen, we’ve talked about this already. We know from our audience, they have lots of thoughts.

[00:19:48] Beth: Yeah, I would ask everyone to fill it out fast so that Dr. Klauer can get this to me ASAP.  I need this right away.

[00:19:54] Sarah: Yeah. I also have a 14-year-old. So the chart would be helpful, especially because-- this is my last question to you-- in Kentucky, they just changed the permit to 15. What is your stance on this, the age at which we should all be doing this?

[00:20:07] Dr. Charlie Klauer: In Europe and other international countries, typically the driving age is older. However, their public transportation is typically better in general than it is in the United States. I grew up in South Dakota. We get our learner’s permit at 13, and I was driving at 14.

[00:20:22] Sarah: Look at our faces.

[00:20:23] Dr. Charlie Klauer: They still can drive independently at 14 in South Dakota and many of those upper Midwest states. But you also have to realize there is absolutely no public transportation. There’s also very little traffic, and it’s flat and you can see the long ways. And so I’m actually not as concerned about that.

[00:20:41] Sarah: Okay, that makes me feel a little bit better, actually.

[00:20:44] Dr. Charlie Klauer: I also think that if we waited until 18 when our kids went to college and then think they’re going to learn to drive at 18- A, that doesn’t give us enough time to practice with them, and B, it just it scrunches that time a lot. I’m actually not a proponent of that.

[00:20:59] Sarah:  And just like academically, 15, 16’s a pretty good age because they’re like classes aren’t super hard. They’re not trying to get into college. You’ve got some time to kind of concentrate on it.

[00:21:09] Dr. Charlie Klauer: That’s right. And practice. Like I said, really taking a long time to practice with your teen and getting them a lot of experience behind the wheel before you let them drive independently, but then still riding with them periodically once they’re driving independently and having the time to do that, I think is a really important step. But also stepping through their privileges of driving in different areas and different environments and different nighttime and interstate and distance. Yeah. Distance is a big deal. Making sure that they’re ready to do that when they’re allowed to do so. And parent-teen driving contracts are a great option to really be able to set that up upfront, and I can send you several links of versions of those-

[00:21:48] Beth: Yes. We’d like those very much. Thank you.

[00:21:50] Dr. Charlie Klauer: They’re very helpful in kind of setting expectations especially for your young teen driver so that they know what’s going to happen when they are able to drive.

[00:21:58] Sarah: Okay. This is very helpful. Everybody fill out these surveys fast. We need these tools. We need the contracts. We need the schedules. We need the tips. We need the book. We need all of it. Thank you so much. This has been so helpful.

[00:22:11] Beth:  It really does feel like this incredible responsibility that we have as parents that we have so few resources to guide us through. I think about the value to me of this book about sleep for little ones that that became my bible for a number of years. I need that book around teen driving.

[00:22:32] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Yeah.  I totally agree.

[00:22:34] Beth: Just take me through the whole process.

[00:22:36] Dr. Charlie Klauer: That’s the information I need. I really feel like there’s a hole and there’s a gap out there, and I would like to be able to fill that for parents.

[00:22:43] Sarah: Listen, we’re here for you. We’re going to pass out this link.

[00:22:46] Beth: We’ll be your  personal book ambassadors.

[00:22:48] Sarah: We’re so glad Kelly recommended you. This has been enormously helpful. I have a feeling this will not be the only time you’re on the show. So thank you so much.

[00:22:56] Dr. Charlie Klauer: Great. My pleasure.

[00:23:08] Sarah: All right, Beth, what was your first car?

[00:23:10] Beth: It was a Mercury Topaz.

[00:23:14] Sarah: Wow.

[00:23:14] Beth: I believe it was a 1989.

[00:23:16] Sarah: Wait, was the color topaz, or the car  itself?

[00:23:19] Beth: No, the car make was a Topaz. Okay. And the color was, like, a baby blue.

[00:23:24] Sarah: Wow.

[00:23:25] Beth: Yeah

[00:23:27] Sarah: First of all, that’s how old we are, because both of our cars were colors. Mine was a red Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, two-door. I loved that car.

[00:23:39] Beth: Two-door. Nice.

[00:23:40] Sarah: It was like a tank. It was so heavy. My family owns a used car dealership, so it was used, but it was, like, really nice. So it was like a luxury car, but it was like a luxury car from the late ‘80s, maybe early. I don’t know what year it was. So it had like leather interior, all the nice, Fancy, super nice radio functions. It had all the fancy car stuff, it was just older. But I loved that car. I loved my red Cutlass.

[00:24:08] Beth: Yeah. I loved my car too. I just remember being able to get in and turn the radio on and listen to whatever I wanted to, maybe roll the windows down. It just felt like a level of control over my own world that I had never experienced before.

[00:24:26] Sarah: Yeah, I think I had a sunroof, so like I could really make it happen.

[00:24:30] Beth: You’re just bragging now.

[00:24:31] Sarah: I am. It was a nice car, and I was so bummed when it broke because... Although then I think my aunt’s father took it and he got it working, and I was like then I want it back. I gave it up because I thought it was, like, permanently broken. because then I drove my mom’s Camry, which was fine, and then I wrecked it. And then the next car I got that was all mine was like a minivan. I like my minivans, but not the same. It’s not that same feeling of independence. And I tore the road up between Paducah and Lexington going to Transy in that Oldsmobile because I had it, I think, my first three years of college, and it was so comfy, and I would just-

[00:25:07] Beth: I didn’t get to keep my Mercury Topaz very long. It was totaled in my terrible car accident. But it protected me. It took really good care of me. The entirety of the front of the car was, like, folded into the dashboard in my accident. When I saw pictures of it, I was like, “How am I alive? Thank you, Mercury Topaz.” Then I got a 1992 Mercury Sable which was like a--

[00:25:24] Sarah: I’m sorry, are you a big Mercury family?

[00:25:26] Beth: I don’t really know why my parents bought. I didn’t have any say in these cars. I was just thrilled and grateful that my parents got me cars.

[00:25:32] Sarah: Wait. This is a good part of this. How did you get the car when you turned 16? Was it like a surprise? How did you get the car?

[00:25:37] Beth: No, I just remember one day Dad being like, “We got you a car. Here it is,” and I was so happy. And the deal was that they would pay for the car and pay for my gas if I took my sister wherever she needed to go. And my sister, who’s 12 years younger than me, at the time needed to go to daycare every day. So I took her on my way to high school to daycare. And brought her home most days too. And carted her all over the place to the point that people thought she was my child. I learned early on, like, how to safely get a kid in and out of a car, and how to have a kid chirping at you in the backseat while you’re driving, and it was great.

[00:26:14] Sarah: I got my car in the parking lot after I passed my driver’s test. I came out and they filmed me. I think there’s video of it. I will see if I can hunt it down. because my mom filmed it so my dad could see of me getting the car. because I think they told me I wasn’t going to get a car immediately, or they told me... I remember Ron telling me he was going to get me some Lincoln Town Car and really ribbing me about it. So when I came out and saw this red two-door car, obviously I was thrilled. But it was so big and so heavy I rear-ended a friend who had a newer car, and that shit crumpled like tin, and my car, nary a scratch. Because it was, like, such a big, heavy car. I’m driving Griffin’s first car right now, the Mini Cooper, and it’s giving me a similar feel. Those Mini Coopers are, like, heavy. It’s a heavy car. You can kind of just feel it. Low to the ground, heavy. But yeah, I loved that car, and I was so excited to get it. And I think I had to pay for some of my gas because I remember being, like, very consumed when it was starting to get over a dollar. And I would get $5 at a time or $10 at a time. I did a lot of that. So I think I had to pay for some of my gas

[00:27:16] Beth: I was just teaching Jane how to do that. Like, when you’re short on cash you tick it up to just, 15, 20, whatever you can do.

[00:27:21] Sarah: I had a real teen texting parent moment when Griffin took my car to summer camp, and he was like, “ it’s half empty. How many gallons is it to fill it up?” And I was like, I don’t understand the question. You fill it up till it clicks and it’s full.” And he’s like, “Oh, it’ll do that?” I’m like, “You’ve been driving for a year.” He’s like, “I just know how big my tank is.” I’m like, “Oh, my God. Yes, babe, you can just fill it up till it clicks off, sweetheart. Good to know that you’re out there driving and don’t even know that it’ll... generates a lot of confidence, that kind of thing. I did not do enough teaching at the gas pump, to throw back to our conversation. I was so consumed with the driving. He got gas all over him one time or he didn’t know how to pay. I should’ve done a lesson just at the gas station, just FYI, if you’re out there about to teach a kid.

[00:28:01] Beth: As Jane has been learning to drive, the thing that she forgets most often is to actually turn the car off.

[00:28:06] Sarah: Oh.

[00:28:06] Beth: She puts it in park and is ready to just get out and walk away, and I’m like, “You do have to turn this car off.” I recognize that there are cars that will turn themselves off, but this is not one of them.

[00:28:15] Sarah: The knowledge gap is real. The knowledge gap is real.

[00:28:20] Beth: So many things to learn. We’d love to hear about your first cars. I think it’s fun to know what people drove and how it shaped them. And were your cars colorful?

[00:28:28] Sarah: God, I hate the lack of colorful cars now. We’ve covered this before, but it’s worth repeating. Thank you for joining us. We hope this conversation in particular with Dr. Charlie was helpful. Next week, Beth is heading on vacation, and I’ll be here holding down the fort along with some very special guest hosts. You’re going to want to check that out. Until then, keep it nuanced, y’all.

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