The government has been shut down for 28 days. The Trump Administration has moved money around and even accepted private donations to lessen some of the pain, but the well is running dry. Federal employees missed their first full paycheck on October 24th. The military is expected to go without pay beginning on November 15th.
Over the weekend, The U.S. Department of Agriculture posted notice that federal food aid through the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program will not go out Nov. 1. The Trump administration declined to use the roughly $5 billion in contingency funds to keep benefits from lapsing.
More than 40 million Americans rely on SNAP for help affording food.
What happens when they no longer receive that help? The USDA directs Americans worried about affording food to contact their local food pantry. Pantries that have for months been experiencing a slow decrease in the amount of federal food assistance they receive.
A slow-moving train wreck is unfolding, and no one needs another online commentator to opine on what comes next. Instead, we called Lacy Boling, the executive director of my local food pantry, Paducah Cooperative Ministries, to tell us what this looks like on the ground, as well as:
How federal assistance has slowed to a trickle
What could happen to families when SNAP benefits run out
What happens to food pantries when need sky rockets
What all of us can do that actually helps
Below is our conversation, along with a transcript of the episode and the resources we discussed.
Episode Resources
How to Help
Outside of Politics: What DO you listen to?
No One Else Like Me (The Red Clay Strays) - Lacy’s favorite
Follow the Pantsuit Politics Team on Substack
- (Sarah)
- (Beth)
Napp Time (
)- (Maggie)
Liz K’s Midlifery
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Episode Transcript
Sarah [00:00:09] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:11] This is Beth Silvers. You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. Today, we are focusing on food banks. Lacy Boling, Sarah’s close friend and the executive director of Sarah’s local food bank, joins us to talk about what her work is like, who her food bank is serving, how they’re sourcing the food, what pieces of the puzzle are falling away right now for both the food bank and the families that they serve, and what help is helpful in the face of that falling away. And then Lacy sticks around for Outside of Politics to tell us why she doesn’t like podcasting or really any speaking in an audio format, which is a little bit challenging for us to endure, but I think it is funny enough to be worth the sacrifice.
Sarah [00:00:52] Luckily, she does such good work in the world. We’re going to let her slide with this truly crazy take on spoken recorded audio. Okay, so if you subscribed to our Substack last week, thank you. And if you haven’t yet, let’s talk about what you’re missing. So this is our new preferred platform. And I don’t mean just as Pantsuit Politics. So, Beth has a personal Substack called?
Beth [00:01:19] Thoughts and Prayers.
Sarah [00:01:20] What do you do at Thoughts and Prayers, Beth?
Beth [00:01:23] Whatever I feel like doing is the honest answer. I’m exploring my faith though. I write blessings, I write prayers. Sometimes I just write a poem or an essay. We have a beautiful chat that I feel is very supportive of the people who take part in it. And so it’s just a place for me to work out things that have nothing to do with what we do here on Pantsuit Politics.
Sarah [00:01:46] I also have a personal Substack called By Plane or By Page where I share what I’m reading and I share our travel itineraries. Maggie has a Substack. Alise has a Substack. This is how I knew we were in the right spot; that we all felt this creative expansion and found places to explore other areas. We can’t talk about everything on Pantsuit Politics. Our listeners have; Liz K has an incredible Substack. So I think that’s what makes this place so special, is not just what’s happening within the Pantsuit Politics community, but what we are exploring individually. I think it’s just a really supportive platform. I always find something-- not somebody I’m following, just a new essay from randomly on Substack that I think is great. I have a very exciting project I’m going to announce on Friday here on Substack. So, I think it’s a really cool platform. So if you haven’t checked it out yet, you should. And when you get your content on Substack, you’re the customer, not the product, which is so nice. And we have turned our referral contest on. If you share Pantsuit Politics with friends, the top five referrals by Thanksgiving will get a gift box from our team. So even if you’re not competitive, it’s a great excuse to invite people into this space. So subscribe and share at Pantsuitpoliticsshow.com
Beth [00:03:05] If you need any help figuring out how to work our Substack to get everything that you get when you join our premium community, please reach out to our team. Alise and Maggie are very, very happy to help you get set up. No one is bothering us. We are here to help you. Again, you are the customer on Substack. We want it to be a really great experience for you. So hello at pantsuitpoliticsshow.com if you need assistance and now let’s talk to Lacy Boling about food banks.
Sarah [00:03:47] Lacy Boling, Executive Director of Paducah Cooperative Ministries. Welcome to your first episode of Pantsuit Politics. Put a pin in that, we’ll get to that part of this later. Okay. We’re so happy to have you.
Lacy Boling [00:04:02] Thanks.
Sarah [00:04:02] Okay. SNAP benefits are on everybody’s mind, but we want to start a little bit back in time, if that’s okay.
Lacy Boling [00:04:08] Yeah, sure.
Sarah [00:04:09] Let’s not start with November. Let’s say we were in summer of 2024. Okay, can you explain your food banks relationship with the federal government let’s say summer of last year?
Lacy Boling [00:04:23] Yeah, let’s be in summer of ‘24. Paducah Cooperative Ministry serves about 800 families every month. So we are working with United States Department of Agriculture, and we’re receiving food from the United States Department of Agriculture. We’re getting five proteins a month from Purchase Area Development District. So they’re bringing food to us every month. Maybe we’re getting chicken legs- that’s fun. Maybe we’re getting five different proteins. So we’re getting fish sticks. We’re getting frozen items. We’re getting so much fun things. Your son packs that for us and Ron comes and he does that for us. And so we have volunteers that pack that. And so if you come to our food pantry, you’re getting that. That’s part of what you get from us. And then we package it with our food pantry because it’s not going to last a whole month for you. It’s supposed to be a supplement. And so you’re going to get things like garbanzo beans. You’re going get food like beef stew. You’re going to get a healthy three bag supplement from the United States Department of Agriculture. So that’s what it looks like last summer.
Beth [00:05:31] I was trying to think this morning, Lacy, about how to ask the question that I want to ask, because the existence of food insecurity is a persistent problem. But I was trying to think about, like, what is a high moment for you? Has there been a time when you thought this relationship with the federal government is working really well and doing what we need it to do? I just want to level set as we get into things not working so well.
Lacy Boling [00:05:57] For me, I feel good when a basket is full and it goes out the door. I feel when we can say this family feels satisfied with the amount of food we’re able to give. Because we don’t just rely on the federal government when we give food out. So we work with the community, we also work with partners like Feeding America, so it’s just the government gives a food bank food and that’s how it works. It’s a whole community that works together. So it’s retail partners. That’s who donates to Feeding America. We buy from Feeding America. So it not just the federal government gives a food bank food and that who we rely on- it’s not just that. So when a community works together, when all those partners work together, when it’s private, it’s public, and then when it’s individuals in the community, that’s what looks good to me. That’s a high moment. So when I deliver it to the end user or the consumer or our neighbor, that’s what we would call it, and they say thank you, or Griffin comes and he helps load it in and it takes a lot to load it, that’s when I feel good. That’s a high moment for me when somebody comes back and says, thank you, this is going to mean a lot for our family. That is a high moment for us.
Sarah [00:07:17] But do you feel like there was a time where the federal government was just enhancing your work? Or has it always been-- I don’t want to say all the way combative, but it feels like the Department of Agriculture was just supplementing in a way that was productive and helpful and it didn’t feel like you were jumping through too many hoops.
Lacy Boling [00:07:36] Yeah, for sure. I don’t feel like it’s ever been combative, but I don’t know where I’m supposed to stay in the past right now, but it’s never felt combative. But now it’s disappointing. Does that make sense?
Sarah [00:07:50] Yeah.
Beth [00:07:50] So it’s not combative. It’s just now we’re to the point where we don’t feel supportive. Now it’s like we’re on our own a little bit. Whereas, before it was cooperative effort. It felt collaborative.
Sarah [00:08:02] Just like a good piece of the puzzle.
Lacy Boling [00:08:04] Yes, everybody was working together and we’re Paducah Cooperative Ministry. We didn’t feel alone in this. And so now it’s starting to move toward, okay, so we need to make plans for doing more of this. Before, we were putting 50,000 of our money into food. Now, as we make the budget for next year, we know we’re going to have to up that because before we could depend on United States Department of Agriculture to weigh in heavier. And now we know that’s not the case.
Sarah [00:08:40] Okay, before we get to the shutdown though, where did that start to change this year? Where did we see cuts? Where do we see changes over the course of 2025?
Lacy Boling [00:08:48] I started to notice it probably about six, seven, eight months ago. I didn’t mean to say six, seven like the kids say. Sorry about that. I have two teenagers at home, so...
Beth [00:09:00] It happened in my brain, too.
Lacy Boling [00:09:01] I know. I know it did. I’m very apologetic of that. But probably about eight months ago we started to notice it. It just wasn’t there. And there wasn’t an announcement, but I watched the news. I know I don’t listen to podcasts that much, maybe that much, but I started to just watch the news, but it didn’t come to us via information. I just noticed it when I started to see the information about the farmers weren’t being bailed out. And so if you know anything about food banks, which I did not before I started working at Paducah Cooperative Ministry in 2022, they partner with farmers to buy this food. That’s what it is. The food that comes in is product of American farmers, that’s what it is. And so when they’re not buying from the farmers, they’re giving it to food banks. And so I just started noticing it not come in. So that chicken, that fish, the produce, the canned food that says Product of America is not coming in because they’re not buying it from the farmer. These contracts do not exist.
[00:10:06] I had to write it down because it’s just something they don’t talk about, but it’s called Commodity Credit Corporation Charter Act. And so that’s where it’s not coming from. That’s not being funded. But again it wasn’t necessarily communicated to the food banks, which I was surprised by. We partner so well, I thought. But now we’re just not getting that information. So I started noticing about six, eight months ago. I thought this was like a cooperative partnership, but what happened was the food just stopped coming in. So it just started trickling out. There just wasn’t as much food in the bags. So, it stopped with the protein, it’s stopped with the frozen goods, then it started slowing down. So where we had three full bags for folks, now it’s down to one. So it’s done to one bag, and now it one frozen item and it’s strawberry. So we’re looking at low to no protein that we’re giving out to our folks. So then your pantry has to step up. So if you look at USDA websites, if you look at these websites, it says go to your local food bank. But what do we do when the food banks not prepared for the influx? And that’s kind of where we’re at today.
Beth [00:11:13] So they aren’t providing you what they had been providing you, and yet they are advertising you as the solution to the problem right now.
Lacy Boling [00:11:22] Absolutely. Correct.
Beth [00:11:22] I want to bring in an element of seasonality too. So we’re going back in time to see where we were before the government shut down. Also, what does your work look like in a typical year as we start to get into the winter? What adaptations are you making in a normal time because of the seasons change?
Lacy Boling [00:11:43] In a normal time, we’re already prepping for Thanksgiving and Christmas. So two things happen in the winter months. One, we see an increase in donations anyway. So this is good because people start to feel good about society and the year and I want to give and if I’m a big giver, it’s time for me to start thinking about what do I need to give away? It’s that time. But it’s also time for me to start thinking about the season of giving. And so I’m going to start donating. It’s also a time for me to think about if I don’t have a lot, how do I take care of my family during this time when they expect more? How do I prepare for a full table when my family comes and I can’t provide for them during a normal time? If I’m the patriarch or the matriarch of my family, how do I provide for them when it’s time for them to come home and I don’t have a lot anyway. It’s where two pieces meet. One, is the need is greater, and second, people are going to start thinking about giving. So right now we’re kind of in that space where 25% of our donations are going to come in right now, but we’re also going to see the biggest need right now. We’re also already seeing right now 59 new families coming anyway. So we were already in a bind. We were already hurt.
Sarah [00:13:12] Where do you think the 59 new families are coming from?
Beth [00:13:16] You would make me tell you that it’s this economy. The groceries are already more expensive. Where we live, a livable wage is hard to come across. Fair market rent is $992 for a two bedroom. That’s almost a thousand dollars. And that’s all across Kentucky. It’s all across the nation that there’s a housing shortage. So we’re seeing that people are having a hard time paying.
Sarah [00:13:46] Housing’s expensive, healthcare’s expensive.
Lacy Boling [00:13:48] Food’s expensive.
Sarah [00:13:49] Food is expensive. Labor market is down. Labor market is depressed. Yeah, you can see all the pieces come together.
Lacy Boling [00:13:54] Yeah, and it hits at a food bank
Beth [00:13:56] Could you tell us in a really high level way a little bit about the people you serve?
Lacy Boling [00:14:01] Most are working. Most are under-employed. So these are our service industry workers. So think fast food. These are folks that are in our hospitality industry. Many work in hotels. Many are working. Many are working one to two jobs, but they’re not able to make it work. What I see is that a food pantry is a natural place to save money. The help it already exists, so use it. So that’s just a place that-- listen, Snap, EBT, KTAP, WIC is never intended to fulfill your whole month’s needs. It was never meant to. Most people on SNAP maybe they’re getting less than $100. It’s not like they’re getting the whole months’ worth. Some people are, but very few. So a food bank is going to be the natural place to get that supplement. And they’re piecing this help together. It’s just a logical place to get some support. So they’re going to come here. They’re going come to a food bank, get that extra piece of help so that they can save somewhere else, like rent, utilities, electric, water, that’s where they’re going to save that money.
Sarah [00:15:25] Or maybe like the car is out and they need a repair or something like that.
Lacy Boling [00:15:28] Absolutely.
Sarah [00:15:28] Because cars are a huge part of it, especially where we live.
Lacy Boling [00:15:32] Yeah.
Sarah [00:15:32] That’s what’s I think easy to forget. It’s like you’re putting together this cooperative puzzle. You’re trying to fill all the pieces. And I think so often when we talk about food banks or we talk about SNAP or we talked about the people you’re serving, they are also putting together that puzzle. It’s not all the federal government supporting the food bank. It’s not all the food banker or SNAP supporting the family. It’s this complex puzzle, which is why they talk about when you live in poverty it’s such a tax on your brain. It’s just a constant problem to be solved. And especially as more and more people find themselves teetering on that line because of the economic reality. Why don’t we take a minute for a break and we’ll talk about it now shortly. All right, now we’re up in time. We’re caught up. As the people are listening to this it’ll be Tuesday October 28th and the reporting, the truly ridiculous pop-ups on the USDA website, sorry, are saying that on November 1st SNAP benefits will not be passed out. They’re not going to get cut. And what I read this morning is that they’re not going use this supplemental fund. Maybe they could have used at the USDA. So there will be no SNAP benefits in the month of November. What does that look like at Paducah Cooperative Ministries?
Lacy Boling [00:17:16] Well, we don’t know what it looks like because we’ve not seen it before. Have we?
Sarah [00:17:19] I don’t think so.
Lacy Boling [00:17:20] I don’t think so. We don’t know what that’s going to look like. Like I mentioned, we were already seeing 59 new families every month, so we’re going to expect those same 59 folks to come and then probably more. So we’ll do our best. The TFAP, which is the Emergency Food Assistance Program, which this will impact. We were already running out of food before we got to the end. So we were serving 400 of those families and we were receiving enough food to maybe make it through 300 of those. So we’re already not receiving enough.
Sarah [00:17:53] Because the food was already trickling, and I’m assuming it’s trickled even further since the shutdown has begun. Does it seem accelerated at all?
Lacy Boling [00:18:01] Yeah, I think so. Because, for instance, I was telling you about the frozen goods. We received enough strawberries to last us half the month. So we didn’t even get enough of that to make it to the [crosstalk].
Sarah [00:18:11] And you didn’t get protein at all. You just got strawberries?
Lacy Boling [00:18:14] Well, we get protein in the way I was telling you- beans.
Sarah [00:18:18] Dried beans, which nobody wants, right?
Lacy Boling [00:18:20] Well, I mean, some people like garbanzo beans. Anyway, yeah, so it’s not enough to make it through the month. So that’s why it’s important that it’s collaborative work. And so, when this ends, it feels like it’s no longer collaborative and that it’s on our shoulders. And I think that might be the intent of this stoppage. And that’s how it feels like sometimes. It’s forcing it down to the lowest level, which is local. And that’s kind of what it feels like.
Sarah [00:18:55] Well, this is a trend. It’s not just with food assistance.
Lacy Boling [00:18:57] Correct.
Sarah [00:18:58] It’s with disaster assistance. It is with all kinds of things.
Lacy Boling [00:19:00] Right.
Beth [00:19:01] Well, I think it’s important to try to separate out supply side and demand side. So with that piece of the puzzle missing for the families that you serve that SNAP had been providing, you anticipate the demand on your services going up and the supply side has been tapering off. Now there is this, in our world, the creator/influencer economy, there is a lot of discussion aimed at getting people to step in and help with this problem, help support your local food banks. I would love to hear you talk about what kind of help is helpful.
Lacy Boling [00:19:42] I will always say it’s most helpful to donate financially. That’s always most helpful because we can take it from there. But people want to donate tangibly and I understand that. Is tangibly a word? I think it is.
Sarah [00:19:55] And also, money is tangible.
Lacy Boling [00:19:57] It is.
Beth [00:19:58] Will you say more for a second, Lacey though, about why giving you cash is more helpful than giving you cans of garbanzo beans?
Lacy Boling [00:20:06] Okay, in garbanzo beans defense, I do like to eat those.
Beth [00:20:10] I do you like them. I agree.
Lacy Boling [00:20:11] I didn’t know until a couple years ago. I was raised on a poverty pallet; I didn’t know I liked those until I grew up, okay? So let’s be fair about garbanzo beans.
Sarah [00:20:19] I’m not even talking of the mighty garbanzo beans. I’m talking about like bags of dried kidney beans are hard to make into things that everyone will eat.
Lacy Boling [00:20:29] I agree. They just are, which is why we supplement. But, anyway, it’s important because it adds into-- we know what we need, that’s why it’s important because we can go by from Feeding America, what we need. We get discounted rates from Feeding America.
Sarah [00:20:48] Now I want to pause on that. So our money if you want to help your food bank, giving money that they can buy more food for less money is better than going to the grocery store and buying.
Lacy Boling [00:21:02] Feels like it.
Sarah [00:21:03] I’m not great at math.
Lacy Boling [00:21:08] Me either.
Sarah [00:21:08] But that seems like good math.
Lacy Boling [00:21:09] Yeah, because we can buy food. Feeding America is great on multiple levels. One being they have a retail program where retailers, Walmart being one, Kroger being another, they donate food that’s close to date and we go pick it up. So that’s one way. That’s how we get fresh produce. Another way is we can purchase food from them directly at a very discounted rate. And that’s why financially is important. We can get a reduced rate on food. That’s good, new, we can buy it. And that comes to us by way of the PAD office. So Feeding America works with Purchase Area Development district and we can buy that. So that’s why financially is important. It also just makes sense. I don’t know how else to explain that better, but it just makes sense. We can do what we need to do.
Beth [00:22:03] The piece of this I’ve seen through my church’s food ministries, there is a storage component that is tricky to manage the freshness of food. You want to provide people with fresh food to the fullest extent possible, but that logistically is very complex. So it makes complete sense to me that just giving you the cash and letting you deal with all of that logistical flow is much better than deciding even I’m going to buy some chicken for you this month.
Lacy Boling [00:22:32] Food safety is also important and protecting the cold chain and things like that. If we ever wanted to give people lettuce, for instance, or a turkey at Thanksgiving time, we would want to make sure that that food was safe the whole time. So us buying it and making sure it was kept at temperature, you understand these types of things would be important. So that would be us going and getting it, making sure it was taken care of and delivering it directly to the person that needed it. So that would be another reason. But yeah, those are ways. And then it just contributes directly to the line item budget for food directly. We also know what goes in the bags that we give people, that Griffin bags up for us. And it involves things that we know are tested and don’t get tossed and it doesn’t contribute to food waste, which is important to us. So if you’re buying things that people we know have told us they do not want in their bags, we want to make sure we’re streamlining what people need in those bags.
Sarah [00:23:33] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I know buying the groceries feels good and putting something in your arms and taking it to your local food bank. But I think it’s important to listen to the need expressed by the organization itself. And I can’t imagine you’re unique among food banks--
Lacy Boling [00:23:52] We’re definitely not.
Sarah [00:23:53] That you would just prefer to have money. Okay, so here’s my question. Let’s say we’re going to have to deal with this acute distress right now with the SNAP benefits. But let’s say by Thanksgiving or at some point the government opens back up again. What does this mean long-term? What do you want people to understand if this slows to a trickle and then the [inaudible] gets turned off altogether and the federal government stops supporting food banks?
Lacy Boling [00:24:28] I think at some point we have to realize that to be a community we’re going to have to become a compassionate society. At some point we’re going to have to decide that we have care for the least of these. I don’t know what you talk about on Pantsuit Politics.
Sarah [00:24:49] We’re going to get there.
Lacy Boling [00:24:50] Okay, I don’t know what you talk about on Pantsuit Politics, but I believe that charity work is important work. I see it every day that we can’t necessarily just-- we have to take care of our friends.
Sarah [00:25:10] Well, to me, I don’t know how you feel about this, Beth, I just feel like it becomes this false binary where the federal government is supporting the poor, the local community is caring for their community. And what you told us very explicitly is it was both; that the federal was a component of a cooperative ministry that also had a huge proportion of local support, charitable giving, church and ministry support. So I feel like it becomes this either the federal government’s doing all of it or it’s not, and the federal was never doing all of it. And I really don’t ever feel like when we’re having the policy debate it’s ever noted that this isn’t all of somebody’s food budget. And the giving itself isn’t coming solely from the federal government. This is a small component, but it is an important component.
Lacy Boling [00:26:11] It’s a very important component.
Sarah [00:26:12] And stressing the system that first of all was working, and second of all stress testing it in a way to see how far we can push our local communities to do this, I don’t understand the point. It’s such a tiny proportion of the federal budget. I think it’s frustrating to me. Like I said, it’s not a philosophical debate. We’re not talking about propping people up. It’s a tiny proportion of the ministry.
Lacy Boling [00:26:41] I like the way that you said it was stress testing because that’s what it feels like. Stress testing with no plan in place. It’s like we’re almost doing to people what we ask them not to do to themselves, which is don’t have a plan. Because we’re forcing all these local governments, all these local agencies to act without a plan. We didn’t anticipate this.
Sarah [00:27:06] How could you?
Lacy Boling [00:27:07] That’s the thing. And so, we talk a lot about how poverty eradicates the future and we’re forcing all of these agencies to act without a future. We’re asking people to dip into their reserves. It doesn’t make sense.
Sarah [00:27:26] To the future of it all, you’re in the middle of a capital campaign right now.
Lacy Boling [00:27:29] That is true, yeah.
Sarah [00:27:30] Tell the people what you’re raising money for and to build. About a future vision for this work.
Lacy Boling [00:27:36] So another part of this is that we run also a homeless shelter. And so, it’s a 48 bed shelter. It’s for transitional shelters. So it doesn’t take people necessarily directly from the street to housing, which is really hard to do. We let people stay for about four months at a time because we know it takes a minute to get folks move through. What we’re missing in our community is the place where there’s emergency shelter, so where you could stay that night until we can get you in somewhere. So we’re currently in a capital campaign to build that emergency shelter. And so this is not to say that we’re pulling money from that to take care of our other things, but we need these agencies to be able to plan for the future. And so forcing them into this emergency situation is not helping our folks, but we are pushing those who are impoverished to the brink. And we are seeing folks that are forced to make these decisions that they are not equipped to make financially at this time. And it is forcing folks into eviction. It’s not just about food.
Beth [00:28:49] I think not just about food is a good transition to the question I want to ask you, which is how far upstream will these problems go? I mean, SNAP in particular is an investment by the federal government that works in our economy. For every dollar we invest, we get more than a dollar return, right? Because it is facilitating people participating in the marketplace. The USDA buying food from farmers for food banks is another one of those things that is like win-win-win. It helps our farmers remain competitive in a very difficult industry. And I wonder if you think that the upstream effects of all of this stress testing on both the supply and demand side will jeopardize people’s ability to stay in farming and will jeopardize like our long-term domestic food supply.
Lacy Boling [00:29:43] I think it’s not just farming. I think my original work was in retail. And I know that a lot of retail work is dependent on the money that people spend here. And so Snap and EBT retailers are dependent on that. Not just retailers, not just farmers, think about business owners who are going to be dependent on it. Think about companies that produce products that are targeted to these people. So think about how far upstream that’s really actually going to go. Don’t you think?
Sarah [00:30:18] Retail, if they’re dependent on SNAP, EBT and they’re not going to ask people to donate to Walgreens so that they have more profits, what are they going to do? They’re going to raise prices. They’re going to raise prices to make up for the difference of what they’ve lost from income from SNAP and EBT benefits. What are they going to do? A capital campaign to make it for the different that they’re losing from people not spending their SNAP and EBT dollars at the grocery store? I was just reading tonight turkeys are already 40% more than last year. How much more are they going to get if nobody’s buying them with their benefits or just generally because they’re too damn expensive? This feels like a death spiral to me.
Beth [00:31:01] So if I am in your shoes, Lacy, how do I plan for that death spiral? What kinds of things are you thinking about over the next few months?
Lacy Boling [00:31:09] Well, I’m cautionary to call it a death-spiral.
Sarah [00:31:11] I like hyperbole.
Lacy Boling [00:31:14] It was a little aggressive.
Sarah [00:31:16] Yeah, not a hopeful note in death spiral. That’s on me.
Lacy Boling [00:31:18] Yeah, that’s okay. I don’t know. I don’t want to be a hopeful person, but I do think that people will donate. I do think local folks will come together for that. Just as we’ve seen in our capital campaign. I do think that local folks will come together. But I also think that’s the plan too, you know? So I don’t know what to say exactly. I think Feeding America has a big key in this. I think that the American people, I think charities they will do what we always do, which is fill the gap. I think that we’ll provide food at our level best. I think it might not be what people need, but I don’t think it’s going to stop us from doing what we need to do. I do believe that people will come through. I really do. But like I said, I hate to be a hopeful person. It’s like, to me, hope is like the worst thing anyone could ever have.
Sarah [00:32:35] I would prefer a plan.
Lacy Boling [00:32:36] I do.
Sarah [00:32:37] I get it.
Lacy Boling [00:32:39] Hope’s the worst.
Beth [00:32:40] Well, I could see myself feeling like the hope that people will feel compelled to generosity is a bad foundation for the long-term.
Lacy Boling [00:32:52] Yeah, it is. Right now when you when you’re operating a charity, if I’ve heard it once I’ve hurt it a million times, we’re right in the middle of the biggest transfer of wealth in our nation’s history. People tell me that all the time. But it’s still hard to raise money. It’s still hard to raise the money for a charity and so I can’t figure out how to bring those two things together.
Sarah [00:33:15] Well, it’s just a symbiotic system. If everyone is being stress tested, even if you’re not showing up at the food bank, if you are being asked for more and more charitable giving to prop up the absence of the federal government inside the charitable giving, then when you perhaps come upon an inheritance or something like that, then you are also in a scarcity mindset and you are also in a place of like I don’t know what’s going to happen.
Lacy Boling [00:33:46] Yeah, that makes sense.
Sarah [00:33:47] The rising prices applies to everybody.
Lacy Boling [00:33:49] That’s true.
Sarah [00:33:50] And so I just think the reality is that this shift is stress testing those at the very bottom. And I think that there is a huge stress test right now in the middle class as well. It’s why you’re seeing more families tilt probably out of the middle-class, lower middle class into more of a threat of poverty, if not already there. So the system was highly calibrated. And there’s no way you pull out the legs from a couple tables of two or three of the legs of a table and it doesn’t upset everything. From the farmer, the middle class, the people in poverty, builders, retailers, public schools, which are definitely feeling this stress as well. All of this was a system that is being broken.
Lacy Boling [00:34:58] Well, is it okay to say also that we’re going to start seeing more federal employees show up, too?
Sarah [00:35:02] Yeah.
Lacy Boling [00:35:02] I mean, so we’re on what, second...
Sarah [00:35:07] Twenty Seven days.
Lacy Boling [00:35:09] Yeah, I should know. I can’t remember, but the second time we’re missing a paycheck too. My husband doesn’t get paid. I don’t know if you know that or not.
Sarah [00:35:18] I know that your husband is a federal employee.
Lacy Boling [00:35:20] We’re missing the second paycheck. And so these are folks that are going to start showing up because a lot of folks are on that.
Sarah [00:35:32] Yeah, it’s not like if you’re a TSA agent you’re rolling in the dough. I mean, these people are working without pay.
Lacy Boling [00:35:37] So, you’ve got all these folks that are federal employees, which people don’t realize they’re local. These are local folks.
Sarah [00:35:42] Before we let you go, if the people just wanted to send you big fat checks, we’ll put a link in the show notes--
Lacy Boling [00:35:48] Yeah, thanks.
Sarah [00:35:50] If you want to support Purdue Cooperative Ministries and maybe Feeding America. I bet Feeding American takes money.
Lacy Boling [00:35:55] I bet they do.
Sarah [00:35:56] I bet they take donations. If you want to send a written check, we’ll put the address for Paducah Cooperate Ministry in the notes as well.
Lacy Boling [00:36:02] Appreciate. Thank you.
Sarah [00:36:02] Yeah.
Lacy Boling [00:36:03] This wasn’t a commercial, though.
Sarah [00:36:05] No. But, listen, people want to do what they want to do.
Lacy Boling [00:36:07] I know, and they’re good to us.
Sarah [00:36:09] They’re good. They gave you a lot of money at the Paducah show.
Lacy Boling [00:36:11] They did.
Beth [00:36:11] Lacy, one more question about that contribution. If I want to find food banks in my local community and feel good about those food banks as places to take my money, is there a central place to look for or is it an affiliation with Feeding America? How can I find a good reputable place to send my money to help at this time?
Lacy Boling [00:36:32] The Feeding America website has a little finder and so does the United Way. And so if you wanted to use either one of those, their websites have a place where you can find a good food bank.
Beth [00:36:44] Well, Lacy, I really appreciate your time. I appreciate the work that you do. I had a brief experience over the weekend assembling some food kits for our homeless ministry at church. And just seeing how challenging that is, we were putting an orange in each bag and the bags of oranges, each one had at least one orange that was like split in it and sticky and messy everywhere. And it just really kind of brought me into this world of thinking, this is very complicated. It is much more complicated than bringing jars of peanut butter to a food bank and saying, here you go, I’ve made my contribution. So I just appreciate what you do and how you do it and appreciate you spending time with us telling us more about it.
Sarah [00:37:27] Yeah, thanks so much. Outside of Politics, we’re talking Lacy’s super controversial hot takes around all audio. So Lacy and our dear friends--
Lacy Boling [00:37:48] Dear?
Sarah [00:37:48] Dear. Close friends. You have spoken at a Pantsuit Politics event.
Lacy Boling [00:37:53] I did, two years ago.
Sarah [00:37:55] And this is your first episode.
Lacy Boling [00:37:58] Well, it’s the first time you’ve invited me, yeah.
Sarah [00:37:59] But you’ve never listened to an episode of Pantsuit Politics.
Lacy Boling [00:38:02] Can’t do it.
Sarah [00:38:04] Why?
Lacy Boling [00:38:04] Because even when I talk, I do this. Can’t do it.
Sarah [00:38:08] You don’t want to hear the...
Lacy Boling [00:38:09] I don’t want to hear it.
Sarah [00:38:11] She also doesn’t do voice memos.
Lacy Boling [00:38:13] I can’t.
Sarah [00:38:14] Voicemails.
Lacy Boling [00:38:15] Beth, does she send you those?
Sarah [00:38:17] Yes.
Beth [00:38:18] Everybody in my life sends voice memos to me and I send them back, long ones, because I’m a podcaster and that is what I do.
Sarah [00:38:24] Look at her. Do you see how uncomfortable-- what about and no audio books either?
Lacy Boling [00:38:29] No audiobooks. Ugh, who reads those?
Sarah [00:38:32] Everybody.
Lacy Boling [00:38:33] Did you hear how I said read? It’s not even reading.
Sarah [00:38:36] Listen, I’m going to tell them your email.
Lacy Boling [00:38:41] Tell them. It’s still a hot mail.
Beth [00:38:43] So I missed it. What is it that you don’t like about the voice memos?
Lacy Boling [00:38:47] I don’t like the mouth noise.
Sarah [00:38:52] All mouth noise. Podcasting. Now, audiobooks is the highest quality audio. There is not a lot of mouth noise on an audiobook.
Lacy Boling [00:38:59] Which means you can hear mouth noises more.
Sarah [00:39:02] No.
Lacy Boling [00:39:04] Yeah, I just don’t like it.
Sarah [00:39:07] Our audio producer is in the chat right now going, we don’t have that. She would know, would she Dylan? She never listens.
Lacy Boling [00:39:12] I guess we’ll never know.
Sarah [00:39:14] Ugh!
Beth [00:39:17] When we read our audiobook, Lacy, they kept an apple beside us to stop mouth noise because apparently whatever is in an apple--
Sarah [00:39:24] Eating an apple.
Beth [00:39:25] If you eat an apple, it’s going to roll a lot of that back. So maybe Sarah you could eat an Apple while you’re leaving Lacy voice memos.
Sarah [00:39:31] I’m going to do that.
Beth [00:39:33] May I also say that I’ve bought all your books, but never read them.
Sarah [00:39:36] I mean, can you even-- she was thinking we just had a second book out. I said, that book’s been out for years.
Lacy Boling [00:39:43] I thought that was the third book.
Sarah [00:39:44] No, second book. I have this book. Now What is the second book.
Lacy Boling [00:39:51] Okay, I have two books.
Sarah [00:39:52] Okay, then you have both books. No, then we’re good. Now, you don’t sit in your car quietly. You are a huge music person.
Lacy Boling [00:39:59] Yeah.
Sarah [00:40:00] That’s all you listen to?
Lacy Boling [00:40:01] Yeah.
Sarah [00:40:02] Music?
Lacy Boling [00:40:02] Yeah.
Sarah [00:40:02] What is your favorite music?
Lacy Boling [00:40:05] I don’t know, it’s hard. It depends on the time. I really just stick with stuff I’ve already heard. So I’ll go back to Dolly Parton a lot.
Sarah [00:40:14] Big Dolly.
Lacy Boling [00:40:15] Big Dolly. Traveling Through is probably my favorite song. Do you know it?
Sarah [00:40:22] I had to think about it, but yes. Now you just saw somebody in concert, a new band you’re trying to get me to listen to.
Lacy Boling [00:40:34] The Red Clay Strays.
Sarah [00:40:36] Have you heard of them, Beth?
Beth [00:40:37] No, I haven’t.
Sarah [00:40:37] See.
Lacy Boling [00:40:39] Out of Alabama.
Sarah [00:40:42] Big Southern Country.
Lacy Boling [00:40:44] They don’t like to call themselves country. So I’m hesitant to...
Sarah [00:40:47] Americana. Bluegrass. I’m saying your preference.
Lacy Boling [00:40:50] Me?
Sarah [00:40:50] Yes.
Lacy Boling [00:40:50] I’m not-- yeah, I guess.
Sarah [00:40:53] You’ve never sent me anything that’s not like guitar heavy.
Lacy Boling [00:41:00] Yeah. I’m also not into self-help. I don’t like that either.
Sarah [00:41:04] What does that have to do with audio or music?
Lacy Boling [00:41:05] I don’t know. I’m just telling you.
Sarah [00:41:06] Well, there is a lot of self-help in podcasting, I’ll give you that much.
Lacy Boling [00:41:08] There you have it.
Sarah [00:41:09] There we go.
Lacy Boling [00:41:10] I’m already good enough. Put that on a shirt.
Sarah [00:41:15] She’s already good enough. But can you imagine being so opposed to all spoken recorded audio?
Beth [00:41:22] I cannot personally imagine that given what we do and its importance in my life.
Sarah [00:41:25] It’s going to be shocking to our audience. They listen to us for hours a week.
Lacy Boling [00:41:30] That’s so strange. And this one, she’ll say like, oh, have you tried so-and-so? And then she’ll explain it to me for like minutes. I remember distinctly one time when you found spray sunscreen.
Sarah [00:41:48] Yeah, good spray sunscreen, probably. You know what Beth calls me? She calls me a resource shopper. I like to share my resources.
Lacy Boling [00:41:55] Yeah, but I think if what I have works...
Sarah [00:41:59] But it could be better. An Enneagram one; it could better.
Lacy Boling [00:42:03] I’m a four. So when you try to tell me, I just want to lay with what I already have.
Beth [00:42:09] Because what you already have works for you and your needs are unique and special.
Lacy Boling [00:42:14] That’s right.
Beth [00:42:15] I understand that.
Lacy Boling [00:42:16] I’m already good enough.
Sarah [00:42:17] I mean, your preference, your antagonism towards recorded audio is unique and special, I think.
Lacy Boling [00:42:28] Perfect. And if you try to push me into it then I’m out. I think that might be it.
Sarah [00:42:33] That’s not always true. I made you my friend. I pushed you into that.
Lacy Boling [00:42:35] You did. Here we are.
Sarah [00:42:36] Look at that. Against your will. And you’re happy.
Lacy Boling [00:42:41] I am so happy about it.
Sarah [00:42:42] See? And I make her say at parties too. She’s doing really good about that too. She’s come to parties. She’s stayed at parties. She’s said goodbye before leaving a party instead of just peacing out and not telling anybody.
Lacy Boling [00:42:57] I didn’t say that.
Sarah [00:42:58] You did.
Beth [00:43:00] As an outside observer of this relationship, it’s sounding to me like you’re just going to have to pick your battles carefully, Sarah.
Sarah [00:43:08] Which one of us?
Beth [00:43:10] Leave Lacy alone on the sunscreen if you want her to keep being your friend.
Lacy Boling [00:43:15] She doesn’t mention it anymore. I was just like, okay.
Sarah [00:43:17] I don’t. And I don’t leave voice memos.
Lacy Boling [00:43:21] You don’t. I don’t like them.
Sarah [00:43:22] And I got you to listen to a podcast just by finally inviting you to one.
Lacy Boling [00:43:27] I haven’t listened to it. I won’t listen to this one.
Sarah [00:43:28] You won’t listen to it.
Lacy Boling [00:43:29] No, it would make me sick.
Beth [00:43:32] Well, thank you for making such a courageous leap into a world that you think is disgusting, Lacy, to be with us. I think that was really kind of you.
Lacy Boling [00:43:41] But do you think listening is reading?
Sarah [00:43:45] Do I think listening to audio books is the same as reading them?
Lacy Boling [00:43:51] Yes.
Sarah [00:43:52] Yeah.
Lacy Boling [00:43:52] Why?
Sarah [00:43:52] Because you’re still taking in the language and following the story. I’m going to give them your email. That’s a controversial take.
Lacy Boling [00:44:00] Beth, what do you think?
Beth [00:44:02] I do not listen to audio books because they make me sleepy, but I do think it counts as reading. I don’t need eyes to be involved for reading to happen. My husband listens to hours and hours and hours of audio books every week. And I do feel like he’s read those books. He recalls them.
Sarah [00:44:17] Every week?
Beth [00:44:17] Every week. He listens to so many audio books. And he has strong opinions about narration, who’s a good narrator, who’s not a good narrator, what makes for good narration. But he refers to those books the way that I refer to books that I read with my eyes.
Sarah [00:44:32] It really enhances your understanding of the book. Like, if you struggle with Russian literature, following all the characters, listening to it where they use the different voices, it’s so great. Because you’re like, oh, I know that person.
Lacy Boling [00:44:43] Who’s reading the Russian literature?
Sarah [00:44:44] Me. I’m reading War and Peace right now. I read Brothers Karamazov last year.
Beth [00:44:49] Sarah, I’m going to give you some advice.
Sarah [00:44:49] And I listened to Brothers Karamazov and it was much easier.
Beth [00:44:52] I’m going to give you some advice. Don’t try to get Lacy to read Russian literature.
Lacy Boling [00:44:54] I’m not doing it.
Beth [00:44:55] I’m reading The Ramier [sp], and I think that that’s going to be off the table.
Lacy Boling [00:45:00] Oh, guys, I’m reading more in War and Peace this week.
Sarah [00:45:02] I’m reading it over the course of the year.
Lacy Boling [00:45:04] I think that’s great. Go for it.
Sarah [00:45:04] I will be finished by the end of the year.
Beth [00:45:06] Good for you, not for me.
Sarah [00:45:10] Good for you, not for me. Okay, Lacy Boling, thanks for coming on Pantsuit Politics.
Lacy Boling [00:45:14] Thanks, pal.
Sarah [00:45:14] All right.
Beth [00:45:15] Thank you so much to Lacy for joining us today. Thank you to all of you who are out there thinking how can I help in a time that is getting difficult for lots of people along many dimensions. We’ll continue to try to uplift work that we think is helpful in this difficult time. If you have stories you’d like to share with us, again, we read every email that comes to hello at Pantsuitpoliticsshow.com. We’d be delighted to hear from you. We would also be delighted for you to take part in our community. One of the reasons that I love our Substack community is that people comment on the show who have listened to the show. There is a shared understanding about what we are doing and what we’re trying to do there. It’s all the best of social media without the garbage, I think. So you can head over and subscribe to our Substack, Pantsypoliticsshow.com, join the referral contest, get a chance to win some fun things from us by Thanksgiving. And we will be back with you here again on Friday. Until then, we hope you have the best week available to you.
Show Credits
Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our Managing Director and Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.
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The Outside of Politics in this episode was 10/10. No notes. Lacey is a gem. Off to donate to Feeding America. ❤️
Not trying to make light of this terrible situation, but I really loved the dynamics of this conversation. "Sarah from the Left, Beth from the Right" was one thing, but now it's "Two podcasters and someone who absolutely hates podcasts", a real embodiment of "I Think You're Wrong (But I'm Listening)." Sarah, thank you for forcing Lacy to be your friend.
I can understand what she means my the mouth noise thing. I have been grossed out by other podcasts, and maybe even some radio shows. I don't listen to those anymore. I still listen to this one. There is no mouth noise on this show.