Sarah, I too was struck by Piker’s comment about how there should be no republicans. What exactly does he think should happen to republicans? Because we are certainly never going to have a country where there are no problem with more conservative thinking. And while I am a democrat and value progress, I also realize it is possible for progress to happen too fast with too many consequences and there is value in having conservative voices say “Hey, hold up. Wait a minute and let me grapple with what you’re suggesting.” Obviously a lot of the loudest R’s are just saying “Hell, no. Not now, not ever” But within the republican voters there is a spectrum of perspectives that are often saying “Hey, I hear you but I don’t think we’re ready yet.” In my opinion we need them in order to find a balance.
This was great, Sarah. I listened to Ezra’s podcast about the Nick Fuentes situation today, and it definitely felt more slanted to me as a right wing problem. Anecdotally, that still feels more true to me, but I believe you that the data is shifting and particularly among younger portions of the electorate. I couldn’t help but think while reading this about your comments about how everything we—progressives/democrats—have done to make marginalized groups safer has backfired and put them more in the cross hairs. Is this ultimately just our American contrarianism at play? “Don’t tell me I’m thinking wrong or doing wrong or I’ll think and do wrong 50X harder?” And if so, what is the way out of that poisonous spiral of individualistic defiance? That, more than anything, is what makes me concerned about there even being societal norms left to shred in the near future.
I really recommend this book, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza.” He talks about how it’s something of a myth that the pro-Palestinian left is especially antisemitic, and he backs this up with statistics. Most of the antisemitism is, by far, on the right.
Peter Beinart discusses his new book, 'Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza'
I wonder if measuring the "more" on right versus left when it comes to antisemitism is less helpful than "more than there used to be." ?
This sentence really stopped me in my tracks: A prior survey conducted by Hersh indicated that Jews on college campuses “pay a social cost if they support the existence of the State of Israel, or for participating in Jewish life on campus.”
That feels like a pretty big change from the norms when I was a college student (which I realize has been a minute). If I were a parent of a college student and saw that trend, I would be really concerned.
If we want to think about the double standard questions they talked about in their survey - I am totally comfortable saying that I think the Russia's actions in Ukraine are wrong and should stop. I (speaking for myself) think the United States should support Ukraine in winning the war between Russia and Ukraine. I think it's really important for our values, for the world order, I think democracy is better than autocracy and we should support legitimate democracy wherever we can. Especially in the face of an unjust attack like this one. But...I also think that when the war is over that Russia should still have a state. I think there's a fair amount of people out there who don't think Israel should have a state...and I think that's hard.
For level setting - I think supporting human rights and a path to stable peace and statehood for Palestinians is a no-brainer. I think using international pressure and aid to get there and make sure that that stable peace is stable for both Israelis and Palestinians is really important. And I get that it is way more complicated than that because there's been so much unfairness, so much death, and so many times when trust broke down.
But...boycotting a Jewish business in the US isn't going to fix that. And I think there's a lot of that going on right now, and if we act like it isn't happening or we don't have to think about because what's happening over there is so bad or AIPAC is a boogie man - then we're not keeping our own house clean.
The reason why I emphasize that it’s a lot less prevalent on the left is because the pro Palestinian movement is often attacked as being antisemitic, and advocacy for Palestinian humanity and rights is silenced because it is dismissed as antisemitic. I am okay calling out antisemitism on the left, and I do. I’m not okay with boycotting Jewish businesses just because they’re Jewish businesses. But the reason why I emphasize that it’s not as prevalent as the common narrative says is because that narrative is used to block movements for Palestinian rights, and I’m not okay with that. Does that make sense? I’m okay saying it’s there, but the narrative that it’s as bad or worse as it is on the right is a falsehood, and it’s perpetuated for a reason (to disrupt the movement for Palestinian rights).
I think this is all fair. I really don't think that Sarah is talking about antisemitism on any particular side so much as it's general increase. She didn't hear people just spouting off dehumanizing things about Jewish people in general at a political rally - she heard these things out in the wild from school children, and that's why she wanted to talk about it.
Again, I am personally, and have been for a long time, deeply sympathetic to the Palestinian people. The Israeli government has (out of what is perhaps an an understandable fear, sense of trauma, actual and perceived threat) systematically dehumanized them, treated them as second class citizens and terrorists, withheld food and water, and, in the "many things are true" category, there are people in the pro-Israel movement (many of whom are not actually Jewish and don't live there) that want the Palestinians to go away - by force or otherwise - and I think that is an attitude that is somewhere in the realm of lazy and monstrous.
And also, working on the internet the last two years, has really opened my eyes to how deep, how old, how easy, and how pervasive antisemitism is.
In our own lanes, you and I spend a lot of time caring about the news, about humans, about our spirits, and about tending to them in difficult times. But there are plenty of people, when things are hard and complicated, just look for someone to blame and hate. And...for a long, long, long time the Jewish people were the go-to target for Europe and Western Asia. There was a reason why the allied leaders thought they needed a place where they could be safe and in control of their own security after 1947 (In retrospect, I think the allied forces and new UN could have had more debate about the wisdom giving a group of people someone else's homeland and not including those people in the conversation or acknowledging that, as part of the war effort, the German army had spent the better part of a decade spreading antisemitic propaganda through the Middle East and they were setting everyone up for a century of violence and misunderstanding.)
I think so many things are true. Politically. Around the world. There's a lot of ethnic, cultural, religious, financial, historic, and very very very personal issues tied up in finding a path towards permanence and peace in Israel-Palestine.
And.
In America, part of the downstream impact of people with enormous platforms like Tucker Carlson and Candance Owens normalizing antisemitic attitudes on one side of our political debate, and, on the other, the intense energy around Palestinian statehood is that it creates a permission structure for people who are not in the movement at all to revert to old stereotypes regardless of their baseline political instincts.
Coming back to Sarah's point - it's not enough to just not do it (just like it's not enough to fight anti-black racism to not use racial slurs) - we have to prevent it.
I am not sure that we will see a resolution to the border, security, and resource issues that face Israel, Palestine, and the West Bank that lasts in our life time. I think it's a worthy goal on which to spend your time, but the solutions are hard. In the United States (where we have different but also hard problems), I think we can work on updating our cultural story about "who we are." I'm pretty sure the melting pot is over because leaving behind your traditions and culture is not what people do. But there has to be a story about the United States - and the way we treat each other, live together, and work on solving problems - that isn't about 'us vs. them' because we look different than we used to - and that is good but also hard. We worship and work and use technology and and learn and get places differently than we used to and that fragmentation can lead to radicalization. Obviously, that is an issue that is important to me personally because it's the issue I choose to work on in a lot of different ways in my life.
I just think there's a lot of myopia in our lives in the United States where we can get really into whatever our lane is, and I think it does us all good (I am included in that number) to step back, look around, and see what's going on outside our bubbles.
I agree with you that antisemitism is a real problem that we need to talk about and challenge. I mentioned my seminary. The ignorant antisemitic remakes I most hear are from my classmates who say things that just… they don’t realize are antisemitic, theologically, but are. (Like I have a classmate who says that it doesn’t matter if Jesus was Jewish, Jesus was a human, and we should stop thinking about him as a person with any one ethnicity, it doesn’t matter.) I don’t think these comments come because they hate Jewish people, but because they just really don’t know. A lot of my professors have taught us about antisemitism, but if a student misses all of those professors, they can leave seminary with some antisemitic theology and beliefs. I’m trying to advocate at my seminary that we either have to take Jewish Studies, or attain a certificate in Jewish Studies, because I think this is really important and easy to miss.
And again, I’m listening out for antisemitism in the movement for Palestinian dignity, and I am speaking up and challenging it. I am very interested in preventing antisemitism and I am learning and earnestly trying to take action around it.
The big point I’m saying here is that I don’t think that the movement for Palestinian dignity has to be antisemitic, and in large part, I don’t think it is. Most of the people I know in the pro Palestinian movement, at least the events I attend, have been involved in interfaith work for most of their lives. We have Jews in our movement, who lead our movement. Most of us have educated ourselves about antisemitism because we value all people, and really care about not feeding antisemitism and resisting it. And we organize and speak out for Palestinian dignity. I don’t think it’s an either/or, and I think that’s what I’m trying to say. I advocate for Palestinian dignity and freedom and I actively resist antisemitism. Both can be done, and I’m by far the only person fervently engaged in both.
I want to be really clear that one can support Palestinian rights, and share the truth about the Israeli apartheid and genocide in Gaza, while also not engaging in antisemitic behavior, thoughts, and words. I am very involved in the pro Palestinian movement among fellow Christians in my city. I have heard maybe three antisemitic comments my whole time here. And I am a person who is very concerned about antisemitism and who is actively learning about it and challenging it in my seminary.
I do want to say that I spoke with a Jewish friend yesterday about this. He said, of course, he has his opinion and can’t speak for all Jewish people. He empathized with my fear for the pro Palestinian movement being silenced because of an overrepresentation of antisemitism within it, and that there is antisemitism on the left that’s important to acknowledge. He spoke specifically about communism’s history of antisemitism.
I also listened to the recent Ezra Klein podcast about antisemitism on the right and I was horrified. As I’ve said, I’m committed in speech and action to fighting antisemitism. And this podcast made it all the more clear to me how much antisemitism there is, and how insidious and dangerous it is.
What I want to say is, I can’t speak for all of the pro Palestinian movement. In my spaces, there is very little antisemitism (outside of the thoughtless remarks of older people). I’ve heard from the student protest side of things that when antisemites show up, they are rejected and told to leave. But I cannot say that there is not a problem with antisemitism in the pro Palestine movement, and my Jewish friend told me that there is.
I think what I’m saying is that I, personally, am committed to fighting for both Jewish and Palestinian dignity. And this commitment is shared by the pro Palestinian people I surround myself with. I think antisemitism anywhere is a problem, and because it is so deeply rooted in our society, it can show up in all kinds of places. I don’t think advocating for Palestinians is at odds with my commitment to fight antisemitism, and I think that’s what I’m trying to say here. And I am committed to continuing to grow pro Palestinian spaces that simultaneously resist antisemitism (and I am already part of these spaces).
I also want to say that I am honored to have met a number of Palestinians. I have never heard any antisemitic thing from their mouths. They speak of peace and their pain and their deep hopes for the future, for all people. I just want to include this because I’m not sure how many people have had the privilege of meeting Palestinians.
I’m not going to stop advocating for Palestinian rights, period… like I’m not going to leave the movement. And I want to specify that when I talk about antisemitic things I’ve heard, these are microaggressions. It still matters. I have conversations with these people about it. But it’s not like the people around me are using antisemitic slurs or even realize they’re contributing to antisemitic ideas until it’s gently explained to them, and then they try to do better.
But again… if I were to leave the Palestinian movement because of these ignorant things people say… no. I’m going to advocate for Palestinians, regardless of what anyone else advocating for Palestinians is doing. I will call out antisemitism. But I’m not going to stop speaking out for Palestinian dignity. That’s really silly to me.
And just to clarify, in case it wasn’t clear, that you may very well already be taking this approach! I know the instinct is typically to have these conversations one on one which is respectful to the person who said the wrong / offensive thing. But that can sometimes lead to others in the group either repeating / integrating the problematic language, or to someone else who was uncomfortable thinking they’re the only one. So I was just thinking that doing an antisemitism minute or whatever would be a good way to address the issue without letting anyone off the hook or making anyone feel called out and shamed which isn’t a good formula for change.
I want to make it clear that I don’t tolerate antisemitism, and if I was part of a movement that said antisemitic things from a microphone I wouldn’t be part of it. But I’m not in spaces like this. I’m in spaces where elderly people say things that are thoughtless. Which is the same for literally any space where I might interact with an elderly person.
And when I say the “movement.” I’m autistic and low energy. The pro Palestine movements I participate in are interfaith walks led by Muslim, Jewish, and Palestinian Christians, and talks where Desmond Tutu’s daughter testifies about the apartheid in Israel in a little church without air conditioning. I have never heard any antisemitic things from the leaders in these spaces. Again, what I’m thinking of is a thoughtless comment that an elderly person said. I’m not going to stop being part of these productive, interfaith movements for Palestinian dignity because of one older woman’s ill placed comment.
Perhaps there is something getting lost in translation via text, on my end or yours or both, but you sound defensive in response to my comments, which I very much intended to be encouraging and nuanced and productive. There’s a repetition of “I’m not leaving the movement”, but if you re-read the comments, absolutely no one has suggested that. We are all navigating this moment in time to the best of our abilities, and this is supposed to be a space where we navigate hard things together—like how to hold two competing ideas at the same time, how to stay true to our values, particularly when two competing values are in the mix, etc. I’m certain that you and I come at these issues from very different life perspectives and experiences; for example, I’m a lawyer and I do a lot of employment discrimination work, and have past experience doing prisoner litigation and death penalty defense, so I have a deep and wide knowledge of different types and degrees of discrimination. So I totally understand what you’re saying about the difference between intentional hatred and bigotry and plain old ignorance. I understood that from your prior message which is why I made the suggestions that I did—which, again, did not tell you that I thought you should leave the pro Palestinian movement generally or your particular group specifically. But I do disagree that every category of discrimination is equal, and that every space with elderly people will include even micro aggressions of discrimination or antisemitism. This is not something I have witnessed or experienced in my church community, my law practice, with my parents and grandmother, etc. “Elderly” in this context may be an explanation, but is still not an excuse—and it seems you know that and agree with that given that you said you are having these conversations with them and thus are not tolerant or accepting of even unintentional antisemitism.
This community is here to support you, not shame or argue with you. The comments in this Substack are, almost without exception, offered in good faith and for the purpose of creating and continuing a dialogue about how we can all be better citizens and humans and members of our various communities, online and off. I don’t think I’ve interacted with you before, but that is certainly always MY intention here, and because of my experiences in this community for over a decade, I give the same generous interpretation to everyone who shows up here.
I don’t read Maggie’s comment as “stop speaking out for Palestine”. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I think she’s saying that participation in a group with antisemitism feeds the beast, in Sarah’s parlance. And that if we wouldn’t tolerate other forms of discriminatory behavior in groups with causes we really believe in, we shouldn’t be okay with accepting antisemitism in groups either.
I’m glad you aren’t staying silent, and hope your gentle relationship building and maintaining can be a source of education and encouragement for individual and group understanding of the slippery line. If you truly think these things are born of ignorance, perhaps you could suggest leading a brief “the more you know” moment at meetings, educating the group about subtle antisemitism? That seems like the sort of humanizing step that Sarah is discussing.
I’ll be honest: my best friend is Jewish and my child’s best friend is Jewish, and I would not be able to stay in a group where even small doses of antisemitism arose. But perhaps you have a chance to do real good on here and educate others about the dignity and humanity of both groups.
And to be clear, no one in spaces I’ve been has said or done anything that is discriminatory against Jewish people. And I care a lot about discrimination, because I am recovering from being discriminated against in the United Methodist Church and having no recourse. I would not tolerate discrimination against anyone, including Jews. That’s not what I’m talking about.
There is no space free from prejudice. The small, ignorant antisemitism I hear in these spaces, which have a lot of white elderly people, is the same sort of ignorance I would experience in any church with elderly people. Everyone is on a journey. If I refused to associate with people who didn’t say everything right all the time, I wouldn’t really have any friends. Again, the pro Palestine movements I participate in are not overly or even subtly antisemitic. Sometimes I hear ignorant comments from elderly people in them, because they are on the journey of learning.
I don’t know if I was clear about the antisemitism present. It’s not that these movements are antisemitic. It’s that people are learning. Like we are all learning.
For example, I’m disabled. I experience a lot of ableism and it’s very painful. And if I didn’t associate with people who said ableist things sometimes by mistake, I would have no friends. I wouldn’t be able to attend church. I wouldn’t be able to watch any media. We are all on a journey. And I hear a lot less accidentally antisemitic things than I hear accidentally or intentionally ableist things.
Sarah, I too was struck by Piker’s comment about how there should be no republicans. What exactly does he think should happen to republicans? Because we are certainly never going to have a country where there are no problem with more conservative thinking. And while I am a democrat and value progress, I also realize it is possible for progress to happen too fast with too many consequences and there is value in having conservative voices say “Hey, hold up. Wait a minute and let me grapple with what you’re suggesting.” Obviously a lot of the loudest R’s are just saying “Hell, no. Not now, not ever” But within the republican voters there is a spectrum of perspectives that are often saying “Hey, I hear you but I don’t think we’re ready yet.” In my opinion we need them in order to find a balance.
This was great, Sarah. I listened to Ezra’s podcast about the Nick Fuentes situation today, and it definitely felt more slanted to me as a right wing problem. Anecdotally, that still feels more true to me, but I believe you that the data is shifting and particularly among younger portions of the electorate. I couldn’t help but think while reading this about your comments about how everything we—progressives/democrats—have done to make marginalized groups safer has backfired and put them more in the cross hairs. Is this ultimately just our American contrarianism at play? “Don’t tell me I’m thinking wrong or doing wrong or I’ll think and do wrong 50X harder?” And if so, what is the way out of that poisonous spiral of individualistic defiance? That, more than anything, is what makes me concerned about there even being societal norms left to shred in the near future.
I really recommend this book, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza.” He talks about how it’s something of a myth that the pro-Palestinian left is especially antisemitic, and he backs this up with statistics. Most of the antisemitism is, by far, on the right.
Peter Beinart discusses his new book, 'Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza'
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/29/nx-s1-5118443/peter-beinart-discusses-his-new-book-being-jewish-after-the-destruction-of-gaza
I wonder if measuring the "more" on right versus left when it comes to antisemitism is less helpful than "more than there used to be." ?
This sentence really stopped me in my tracks: A prior survey conducted by Hersh indicated that Jews on college campuses “pay a social cost if they support the existence of the State of Israel, or for participating in Jewish life on campus.”
That feels like a pretty big change from the norms when I was a college student (which I realize has been a minute). If I were a parent of a college student and saw that trend, I would be really concerned.
If we want to think about the double standard questions they talked about in their survey - I am totally comfortable saying that I think the Russia's actions in Ukraine are wrong and should stop. I (speaking for myself) think the United States should support Ukraine in winning the war between Russia and Ukraine. I think it's really important for our values, for the world order, I think democracy is better than autocracy and we should support legitimate democracy wherever we can. Especially in the face of an unjust attack like this one. But...I also think that when the war is over that Russia should still have a state. I think there's a fair amount of people out there who don't think Israel should have a state...and I think that's hard.
For level setting - I think supporting human rights and a path to stable peace and statehood for Palestinians is a no-brainer. I think using international pressure and aid to get there and make sure that that stable peace is stable for both Israelis and Palestinians is really important. And I get that it is way more complicated than that because there's been so much unfairness, so much death, and so many times when trust broke down.
But...boycotting a Jewish business in the US isn't going to fix that. And I think there's a lot of that going on right now, and if we act like it isn't happening or we don't have to think about because what's happening over there is so bad or AIPAC is a boogie man - then we're not keeping our own house clean.
The reason why I emphasize that it’s a lot less prevalent on the left is because the pro Palestinian movement is often attacked as being antisemitic, and advocacy for Palestinian humanity and rights is silenced because it is dismissed as antisemitic. I am okay calling out antisemitism on the left, and I do. I’m not okay with boycotting Jewish businesses just because they’re Jewish businesses. But the reason why I emphasize that it’s not as prevalent as the common narrative says is because that narrative is used to block movements for Palestinian rights, and I’m not okay with that. Does that make sense? I’m okay saying it’s there, but the narrative that it’s as bad or worse as it is on the right is a falsehood, and it’s perpetuated for a reason (to disrupt the movement for Palestinian rights).
I think this is all fair. I really don't think that Sarah is talking about antisemitism on any particular side so much as it's general increase. She didn't hear people just spouting off dehumanizing things about Jewish people in general at a political rally - she heard these things out in the wild from school children, and that's why she wanted to talk about it.
Again, I am personally, and have been for a long time, deeply sympathetic to the Palestinian people. The Israeli government has (out of what is perhaps an an understandable fear, sense of trauma, actual and perceived threat) systematically dehumanized them, treated them as second class citizens and terrorists, withheld food and water, and, in the "many things are true" category, there are people in the pro-Israel movement (many of whom are not actually Jewish and don't live there) that want the Palestinians to go away - by force or otherwise - and I think that is an attitude that is somewhere in the realm of lazy and monstrous.
And also, working on the internet the last two years, has really opened my eyes to how deep, how old, how easy, and how pervasive antisemitism is.
In our own lanes, you and I spend a lot of time caring about the news, about humans, about our spirits, and about tending to them in difficult times. But there are plenty of people, when things are hard and complicated, just look for someone to blame and hate. And...for a long, long, long time the Jewish people were the go-to target for Europe and Western Asia. There was a reason why the allied leaders thought they needed a place where they could be safe and in control of their own security after 1947 (In retrospect, I think the allied forces and new UN could have had more debate about the wisdom giving a group of people someone else's homeland and not including those people in the conversation or acknowledging that, as part of the war effort, the German army had spent the better part of a decade spreading antisemitic propaganda through the Middle East and they were setting everyone up for a century of violence and misunderstanding.)
I think so many things are true. Politically. Around the world. There's a lot of ethnic, cultural, religious, financial, historic, and very very very personal issues tied up in finding a path towards permanence and peace in Israel-Palestine.
And.
In America, part of the downstream impact of people with enormous platforms like Tucker Carlson and Candance Owens normalizing antisemitic attitudes on one side of our political debate, and, on the other, the intense energy around Palestinian statehood is that it creates a permission structure for people who are not in the movement at all to revert to old stereotypes regardless of their baseline political instincts.
Coming back to Sarah's point - it's not enough to just not do it (just like it's not enough to fight anti-black racism to not use racial slurs) - we have to prevent it.
I am not sure that we will see a resolution to the border, security, and resource issues that face Israel, Palestine, and the West Bank that lasts in our life time. I think it's a worthy goal on which to spend your time, but the solutions are hard. In the United States (where we have different but also hard problems), I think we can work on updating our cultural story about "who we are." I'm pretty sure the melting pot is over because leaving behind your traditions and culture is not what people do. But there has to be a story about the United States - and the way we treat each other, live together, and work on solving problems - that isn't about 'us vs. them' because we look different than we used to - and that is good but also hard. We worship and work and use technology and and learn and get places differently than we used to and that fragmentation can lead to radicalization. Obviously, that is an issue that is important to me personally because it's the issue I choose to work on in a lot of different ways in my life.
I just think there's a lot of myopia in our lives in the United States where we can get really into whatever our lane is, and I think it does us all good (I am included in that number) to step back, look around, and see what's going on outside our bubbles.
I agree with you that antisemitism is a real problem that we need to talk about and challenge. I mentioned my seminary. The ignorant antisemitic remakes I most hear are from my classmates who say things that just… they don’t realize are antisemitic, theologically, but are. (Like I have a classmate who says that it doesn’t matter if Jesus was Jewish, Jesus was a human, and we should stop thinking about him as a person with any one ethnicity, it doesn’t matter.) I don’t think these comments come because they hate Jewish people, but because they just really don’t know. A lot of my professors have taught us about antisemitism, but if a student misses all of those professors, they can leave seminary with some antisemitic theology and beliefs. I’m trying to advocate at my seminary that we either have to take Jewish Studies, or attain a certificate in Jewish Studies, because I think this is really important and easy to miss.
And again, I’m listening out for antisemitism in the movement for Palestinian dignity, and I am speaking up and challenging it. I am very interested in preventing antisemitism and I am learning and earnestly trying to take action around it.
The big point I’m saying here is that I don’t think that the movement for Palestinian dignity has to be antisemitic, and in large part, I don’t think it is. Most of the people I know in the pro Palestinian movement, at least the events I attend, have been involved in interfaith work for most of their lives. We have Jews in our movement, who lead our movement. Most of us have educated ourselves about antisemitism because we value all people, and really care about not feeding antisemitism and resisting it. And we organize and speak out for Palestinian dignity. I don’t think it’s an either/or, and I think that’s what I’m trying to say. I advocate for Palestinian dignity and freedom and I actively resist antisemitism. Both can be done, and I’m by far the only person fervently engaged in both.
https://forward.com/fast-forward/549006/jews-far-left-far-right-antisemitic-study/
I want to be really clear that one can support Palestinian rights, and share the truth about the Israeli apartheid and genocide in Gaza, while also not engaging in antisemitic behavior, thoughts, and words. I am very involved in the pro Palestinian movement among fellow Christians in my city. I have heard maybe three antisemitic comments my whole time here. And I am a person who is very concerned about antisemitism and who is actively learning about it and challenging it in my seminary.
I do want to say that I spoke with a Jewish friend yesterday about this. He said, of course, he has his opinion and can’t speak for all Jewish people. He empathized with my fear for the pro Palestinian movement being silenced because of an overrepresentation of antisemitism within it, and that there is antisemitism on the left that’s important to acknowledge. He spoke specifically about communism’s history of antisemitism.
I also listened to the recent Ezra Klein podcast about antisemitism on the right and I was horrified. As I’ve said, I’m committed in speech and action to fighting antisemitism. And this podcast made it all the more clear to me how much antisemitism there is, and how insidious and dangerous it is.
What I want to say is, I can’t speak for all of the pro Palestinian movement. In my spaces, there is very little antisemitism (outside of the thoughtless remarks of older people). I’ve heard from the student protest side of things that when antisemites show up, they are rejected and told to leave. But I cannot say that there is not a problem with antisemitism in the pro Palestine movement, and my Jewish friend told me that there is.
I think what I’m saying is that I, personally, am committed to fighting for both Jewish and Palestinian dignity. And this commitment is shared by the pro Palestinian people I surround myself with. I think antisemitism anywhere is a problem, and because it is so deeply rooted in our society, it can show up in all kinds of places. I don’t think advocating for Palestinians is at odds with my commitment to fight antisemitism, and I think that’s what I’m trying to say here. And I am committed to continuing to grow pro Palestinian spaces that simultaneously resist antisemitism (and I am already part of these spaces).
I also want to say that I am honored to have met a number of Palestinians. I have never heard any antisemitic thing from their mouths. They speak of peace and their pain and their deep hopes for the future, for all people. I just want to include this because I’m not sure how many people have had the privilege of meeting Palestinians.
Again, I want to engage in good faith here. Three is lot.
If (for instance), I was in a movement and I heard three people use the n-word...I'd be out.
I’m not going to stop advocating for Palestinian rights, period… like I’m not going to leave the movement. And I want to specify that when I talk about antisemitic things I’ve heard, these are microaggressions. It still matters. I have conversations with these people about it. But it’s not like the people around me are using antisemitic slurs or even realize they’re contributing to antisemitic ideas until it’s gently explained to them, and then they try to do better.
But again… if I were to leave the Palestinian movement because of these ignorant things people say… no. I’m going to advocate for Palestinians, regardless of what anyone else advocating for Palestinians is doing. I will call out antisemitism. But I’m not going to stop speaking out for Palestinian dignity. That’s really silly to me.
And just to clarify, in case it wasn’t clear, that you may very well already be taking this approach! I know the instinct is typically to have these conversations one on one which is respectful to the person who said the wrong / offensive thing. But that can sometimes lead to others in the group either repeating / integrating the problematic language, or to someone else who was uncomfortable thinking they’re the only one. So I was just thinking that doing an antisemitism minute or whatever would be a good way to address the issue without letting anyone off the hook or making anyone feel called out and shamed which isn’t a good formula for change.
I want to make it clear that I don’t tolerate antisemitism, and if I was part of a movement that said antisemitic things from a microphone I wouldn’t be part of it. But I’m not in spaces like this. I’m in spaces where elderly people say things that are thoughtless. Which is the same for literally any space where I might interact with an elderly person.
And when I say the “movement.” I’m autistic and low energy. The pro Palestine movements I participate in are interfaith walks led by Muslim, Jewish, and Palestinian Christians, and talks where Desmond Tutu’s daughter testifies about the apartheid in Israel in a little church without air conditioning. I have never heard any antisemitic things from the leaders in these spaces. Again, what I’m thinking of is a thoughtless comment that an elderly person said. I’m not going to stop being part of these productive, interfaith movements for Palestinian dignity because of one older woman’s ill placed comment.
Perhaps there is something getting lost in translation via text, on my end or yours or both, but you sound defensive in response to my comments, which I very much intended to be encouraging and nuanced and productive. There’s a repetition of “I’m not leaving the movement”, but if you re-read the comments, absolutely no one has suggested that. We are all navigating this moment in time to the best of our abilities, and this is supposed to be a space where we navigate hard things together—like how to hold two competing ideas at the same time, how to stay true to our values, particularly when two competing values are in the mix, etc. I’m certain that you and I come at these issues from very different life perspectives and experiences; for example, I’m a lawyer and I do a lot of employment discrimination work, and have past experience doing prisoner litigation and death penalty defense, so I have a deep and wide knowledge of different types and degrees of discrimination. So I totally understand what you’re saying about the difference between intentional hatred and bigotry and plain old ignorance. I understood that from your prior message which is why I made the suggestions that I did—which, again, did not tell you that I thought you should leave the pro Palestinian movement generally or your particular group specifically. But I do disagree that every category of discrimination is equal, and that every space with elderly people will include even micro aggressions of discrimination or antisemitism. This is not something I have witnessed or experienced in my church community, my law practice, with my parents and grandmother, etc. “Elderly” in this context may be an explanation, but is still not an excuse—and it seems you know that and agree with that given that you said you are having these conversations with them and thus are not tolerant or accepting of even unintentional antisemitism.
This community is here to support you, not shame or argue with you. The comments in this Substack are, almost without exception, offered in good faith and for the purpose of creating and continuing a dialogue about how we can all be better citizens and humans and members of our various communities, online and off. I don’t think I’ve interacted with you before, but that is certainly always MY intention here, and because of my experiences in this community for over a decade, I give the same generous interpretation to everyone who shows up here.
I don’t read Maggie’s comment as “stop speaking out for Palestine”. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I think she’s saying that participation in a group with antisemitism feeds the beast, in Sarah’s parlance. And that if we wouldn’t tolerate other forms of discriminatory behavior in groups with causes we really believe in, we shouldn’t be okay with accepting antisemitism in groups either.
I’m glad you aren’t staying silent, and hope your gentle relationship building and maintaining can be a source of education and encouragement for individual and group understanding of the slippery line. If you truly think these things are born of ignorance, perhaps you could suggest leading a brief “the more you know” moment at meetings, educating the group about subtle antisemitism? That seems like the sort of humanizing step that Sarah is discussing.
I’ll be honest: my best friend is Jewish and my child’s best friend is Jewish, and I would not be able to stay in a group where even small doses of antisemitism arose. But perhaps you have a chance to do real good on here and educate others about the dignity and humanity of both groups.
And to be clear, no one in spaces I’ve been has said or done anything that is discriminatory against Jewish people. And I care a lot about discrimination, because I am recovering from being discriminated against in the United Methodist Church and having no recourse. I would not tolerate discrimination against anyone, including Jews. That’s not what I’m talking about.
There is no space free from prejudice. The small, ignorant antisemitism I hear in these spaces, which have a lot of white elderly people, is the same sort of ignorance I would experience in any church with elderly people. Everyone is on a journey. If I refused to associate with people who didn’t say everything right all the time, I wouldn’t really have any friends. Again, the pro Palestine movements I participate in are not overly or even subtly antisemitic. Sometimes I hear ignorant comments from elderly people in them, because they are on the journey of learning.
I don’t know if I was clear about the antisemitism present. It’s not that these movements are antisemitic. It’s that people are learning. Like we are all learning.
For example, I’m disabled. I experience a lot of ableism and it’s very painful. And if I didn’t associate with people who said ableist things sometimes by mistake, I would have no friends. I wouldn’t be able to attend church. I wouldn’t be able to watch any media. We are all on a journey. And I hear a lot less accidentally antisemitic things than I hear accidentally or intentionally ableist things.