You Can't Defeat the Robots

Beth on baseball's new AI umpires, plus Sarah talks with Aaron Barrett about Tommy John surgery, faith, and managing in the minors

We’re on Spring Break this week, so I’m speaking to you from the past. Who even knows what’s transpired between my time and yours right now. Sarah and I will be back in real time next Tuesday to break all of that down, but for today, we have a true treat for you.

Sarah is here talking with Aaron Barrett, a retired professional baseball player and current manager of the Clearwater Threshers. They talk about the culture of baseball, Aaron’s experience with Tommy John surgery, the impact of sports gambling on players, and the status of league negotiations. As a very dedicated baseball fan, I’m so excited about this one. And because I love baseball, I couldn’t stay out of it. So outside of politics, I share some thoughts on the new ABS system, aka “are the robots taking over baseball?” -Beth

Topics Discussed

• Aaron Barrett on Baseball, Resilience, and Protecting Players

• Outside of Politics: Who’s Calling Balls and Strikes?

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Episode Resources

Help us celebrate our community in Minneapolis! Submit your design for our Good Neighbor T-Shirt Contest by April 30.

• Aaron Barrett (@aaronbarrett30) (Instagram)

• Nats call up Aaron Barrett in emotional announcement (ESPN)

• Clearwater Threshers Announce 2026 Coaching Staff

• MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement (MLB)

Episode Transcript

Beth [00:00:29] This is Beth Silvers. You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. We’re on spring break this week, so I’m speaking to you from the past. I’m recording this little introduction on Wednesday, April 1st. Who even knows what has transpired between my time and yours right now? Sarah and I’ll be back in real time next Tuesday to break whatever it is down, but for today, we have a true treat for you. Sarah is here talking with Aaron Barrett, a retired professional baseball player and current manager of the Clearwater Threshers. They talk about the culture at baseball, Aaron’s experience with Tommy John surgery, the impact of sports gambling on players and the status of league negotiations. As a very dedicated baseball fan myself, I am so excited about this one. And because I love baseball, I couldn’t stay out of it. So Outside of Politics, I share some thoughts on the new ABS system, AKA are the robots taking over baseball? Before Sarah and Aaron talk about America’s favorite pastime, I want to remind you that our special edition T-shirt design contest is in full swing. We’re inviting you to submit designs for one special summer shirt that celebrates our community, America’s 250th birthday, and our live show in Minneapolis in August. We want this to be a shirt inspired by all that greatness, but that you’d also just be genuinely happy to wear in your life for many years to come. The theme is Good Neighbors. You can find all the details in our notes and on Substack. Submissions are open through April 30th. We cannot wait to see what Good Neighbors looks like to you. Next up, Sarah talks Baseball with Aaron Barrett.

Sarah [00:02:10] Aaron Barrett, welcome to Pantsuit Politics. I’m so excited you’re here.

Aaron Barrett [00:02:16] Me too!

Sarah [00:02:17] And not just because I’m related to Aaron-- although I am-- but also because, although, I am not a sports fanatic, let’s be clear, the people are not going to be fooled if I roll in and try to be some sports aficionado. Sports culture, sports management, especially around baseball, that stuff is endlessly fascinating to me. So when you got your new job as the manager of the Clearwater Threshers, I was like, hey, you want to come on Pantsuit Politics and talk about like the culture of baseball? And you were like, yeah, I do. So, first of all, people now just know your role and that we’re related, but tell people about your history inside baseball.

Aaron Barrett [00:02:59] Yeah. It’s kind of a long story.

Sarah [00:03:02] Yeah, I was going to say, how long have you been playing baseball, Aaron?

Aaron Barrett [00:03:05] I’ve been playing since I was five years old.

Sarah [00:03:07] Oh my gosh.

Aaron Barrett [00:03:08] But this is my 16th year in professional baseball.

Sarah [00:03:12] So you played for which teams and where are you now?

Aaron Barrett [00:03:16] Played, obviously, high school baseball, grew up in Evansville, Indiana, and then I went to Wabash Valley Junior College in Illinois and then transferred to University of Mississippi-- go Rebels-- and drafted by the Nationals and then made it to the big leagues in 2014. And then obviously we’ll probably unpack a lot of the other stuff. But basically, drafted in 2010, made it to the big leagues in 2014. Officially retired in 2022 and then went to the other side, the dark side, as they call it-- just kidding-- with the Philadelphia Phillies right after that.

Sarah [00:03:55] Okay. And is this your first official management role?

Aaron Barrett [00:03:58] This is my first ever time being a manager of a team in Pro-Ball, forever really.

Sarah [00:04:06] You’re explaining to me that this is what level-- I didn’t know there were so many. I knew you were in the minor leagues and then I knew were in major leagues. Those are the levels I know about. You just told me there were more than that.

Aaron Barrett [00:04:17] Yeah, so it can be a little complicated because in the other sports like NFL and NBA, well, the NBA has what’s called the G League and D League, I think, whatever they want to call it. But in baseball, it’s such a high skill sport. And because it’s based off, again, if you really think about it, a Hall of Fame player if they get three hits out of ten at bats, again, you’re failing seven times. You’re considered a Hall of Famer. So it takes a lot of patience and a lot of skill to be really good at this game. So we have what’s called the minor leagues. And so when you get drafted we have the rookie level which is at the complex, and then Low-A, which is where I’ll be this year. And then we have High-A, then we AA, and then we have AAA and the next step after AAA is the big leagues. So it’s a long process.

Sarah [00:05:20] Well, I remember when you were in the minor leagues, I remember going to dinner with you and you’re like, well, if you figure up all my time, it’s like $3.25 an hour. You were drafted four times before you signed a professional contract. So what kept you going? What advice are you going to give these guys who’ve now been drafted and are starting this process?

Aaron Barrett [00:05:40] I think the unique thing for me is everybody has their own story and I’ve, obviously, my whole journey from start to finish up until this point has covered a lot of different perspectives. So I’m excited to now be able to connect with these guys because I feel like every single player in that clubhouse I can actually connect with and I think that’s what makes my perspective unique. So I’m excited just to be able to, again, every single guy, whether you’re a first-rounder, or whether you are a guy that’s on the bubble, or whether you’re a Latin American guy, whatever, I feel like I have an opportunity to connect with them and share them like, hey, as long as you have a jersey on, you have an opportunity to be a major league player. And that’s the whole purpose of why these guys-- again, it’s the dreams, it’s the vision. So I’m excited just to be able to inspire these guys and hopefully help them the best that I can.

Sarah [00:06:42] Well, your journey inside the majors was kind of crazy because you played for the nationals, you went to the world series, like the dream that everybody envisions, but I think one of the things at the time you were most well-known for that got all this attention and is now to me a part of such a bigger story that’s happening inside baseball and specifically inside pitching is the Tommy John surgery. So tell the people about your Tommy John story.

Aaron Barrett [00:07:17] I was on the rise in the major leagues and ended up making an opening day roster in 2014 with the Nationals and was kind of on my way to having a lot of success in the major leagues, pushing the playoffs. And then in 2015 I was leading all the baseball and appearances, just doing my thing, trying to be the next back in closer, being the guy that was my dream, to be the next big thing. And unfortunately, I pitched a lot and arm couldn’t hold up and end up having to get Tommy John surgery. And so for those who don’t--

Sarah [00:07:59] Wait, for people who don’t know, we’re throwing that around, but for people who don’t what that is, tell them.

Aaron Barrett [00:08:05] I think I can’t remember is back in way back when I can remember exactly the day, but there actually was a picture named Tommy John in the major leagues and he’s the first person to ever have surgery successfully done. So what happens, there’s a ligament inside your elbow called the under collateral ligament. And due to either increased velocity or overuse, which that’s what happened in my case, the ligament will either stretch or it’ll just break. And so we’re right now in kind of an epidemic across all of baseball, not only in the major leagues, I think they just came out the statistic the other day that 39% of guys in the Major Leagues end up having Tommy John’s surgery, which is insane.

Sarah [00:08:54] That’s insane!

Aaron Barrett [00:08:56] But even worse is it’s the youth, the youth right now, the amount of kids from anywhere from 13 to 17 years old, it’s happening at an absolute rapid rate. And obviously it pulls on my heartstrings a lot. Well, anyway, so the surgery itself, you can do it a couple of different ways. So they get your palmaris tendon, there’s this little tendon and they take that tendon out and then they attach it to this bone on the inside and that’s how they replace it or you can also get it from your hamstring. So next thing you know, 12 to 16 months later of rehab you’re all brand new and go get them. So that’s kind of the short story of what Tommy John surgery is.

Sarah [00:09:47] So you got it in 2015 and then what happened?

Aaron Barrett [00:09:50] So in 2015, I absolutely dominate my rehab. I’m literally a week away from going back to the major leagues, crushing it. And on a backfield game on one pitch, I’ve been pitching just like I have my whole life. Actually, as I’m accelerating my arm forward, I snap my humerus bone in half, break it.

Sarah [00:10:12] You broke your bone. Y’all, this was very traumatic for Aaron and also the rest of our family. Witnesses said it sounded like a gunshot. That’s the part that I can never, will never forget.

Aaron Barrett [00:10:23] Yeah. I’ve gotten a lot better telling the story because I’ve told it a lot now, but every time that I do tell the story, it’s just such a traumatic event for me. We had a couple guys puking in the dugout when it happened. They said it sounded like take like two stacks of like two by fours and then like snap those in half.

Sarah [00:10:47] Oh my god.

Aaron Barrett [00:10:48] Yeah, it is not supposed to happen. There’s only been a handful, I think five or six guys in the history of major league baseball, that’s happened to. I know there have been some other kids at the youth level it’s happened to, but...

Sarah [00:11:02] Where they broke their bone doing it?

Aaron Barrett [00:11:05] Yeah, but it’s such a rare thing. It’s not supposed to happen. So next thing you know, I go up to Dr. Andrews who did my original surgery. And when he first saw the x-ray, he actually thought I got in a car accident because again, what I did is not supposed to happen.

Sarah [00:11:26] So then you get it again.

Aaron Barrett [00:11:28] So, that whole story is wild because, again, they didn’t understand how it happened. And so, my surgery is supposed to only be about two hours, and it ended up lasting six. And the reason why is because every time they went to drill a screw into my bone, the drill bit would break off in my bone. So, they had to replace the drill bit all 16 times. So it lasted six hours. So when I woke up, the pain was unlike anything I’ve ever imagined. So two plates, 16 screws. And basically they told me I would never throw a baseball ever again.

Sarah [00:12:13] But you did.

Aaron Barrett [00:12:14] But I did.

Sarah [00:12:18] How long were you in rehab the second time?

Aaron Barrett [00:12:20] The way that you count rehab is in order to be a successful rehab, you have to throw a pitch successfully at the same level you’re at. So for me, since I was in the major leagues in 2015, my total rehab process was a total of four years to make it back to my previous level.

Sarah [00:12:43] What was it like when you got back there?

Aaron Barrett [00:12:47] Unlike anything I could ever imagine. That whole process is really like very humbling. I felt like I had a pretty decent faith foundation and it broke me. To be honest with you. And so, I wanted nothing to do with God. I shut him out of my life and questioned everything, questioned why. Because I felt like I was a pretty good person and felt like I was on the-- again, I made mistakes just like everybody else, but it was such a traumatic event that I just... So, for me, the gift that he blessed me with he also broke me with it. So that was very, very, very hard to swallow. So I just wanted nothing to do with him and so I just thought that I could do everything on my own. And about a year into my rehab process I was on my hands and knees begging for everything that I can’t do it anymore on my own. And then slowly started getting back in word and my daily devotional. And sure enough I started healing a little bit more and start getting a little bit better. And the days turned into weeks, the weeks turned into months, and the months turned into years, obviously. And next thing you know three and a half, four years later, and I finally get the call, then there’s that viral video of me getting called back up where my teammates just mobbed me in September 7th in 2019.

[00:14:31] So that whole story is nuts because I’m living in Atlanta at that time. And for me, again, to have my first game back in Atlanta where all my family’s there, it’s where I’m living, that’s such a God thing. And I just remember it’s kind of a funny story. I get called like, hey, you’re going to the game. I’m a wreck. I’m a emotional mental wreck. And I’m on the mound. I’m just like it’s a bigger deal than it was my first in my major debut, you know? And so I go ball one, ball two, ball three, ball four, ball five, ball six. And I remember I step off the mound and I go, what are you doing? And it’s like you’ve been dreaming about this for four years and this is how you’re going to start? Like, let’s go. So I reset, get the guy out, next guy out. And then I strike out Ronald Cuney Jr. who’s arguably one of the best players in the game. And then get the next guy. And I just come off the mound and it just hits me. And it all is such a humbling feeling knowing that what God did in my life. I’m getting a little choked up thinking about it because it was incredible. I can’t even explain what that moment was for me.

Sarah [00:16:18] What I think is so interesting and what I really wanted to talk to you about today is that I think as you’re like going into this manager position, you have to put together your individual story with what’s happening in baseball broadly. And at the time I remember it was such a big deal. You were the only person to have had it twice. Now that’s no longer true. I’ve read something the other day that somebody might be getting it like three times or maybe they already have. My first question is like, were you just mad at yourself and God? Were you ever mad at baseball? Like where you ever felt like were you questioning like the overworking or the-- and now that you’ve seen this like play out broadly, how do you think about your own journey and how are you going to coach these guys? I know one thing you mentioned to me was like a different philosophy around pitching. Like how are putting your journey, this broader trend and all of this together as you’re responsible for other players?

Aaron Barrett [00:17:15] It’s a great question. Yeah, the state of the game is definitely much different than when I played, and the demands of the game are much different and the type of player. I think the average velocity right now-- again, I do like 95, 96. And I think the average philosophy right now is like 94, 95, which is crazy.

Sarah [00:17:40] It’s not like you were playing 20 years ago. It wasn’t that long ago.

Aaron Barrett [00:17:42] I know. I know it’s crazy. So I think the trend of what the athlete-- like the athlete today is on another level. They are so talented. Whether it’s the nutrition, it’s the way they train. It is just different. Not in a bad way. And I was the rehab coordinator before this position. So one of the things that I try to now preach is your best ability is your availability. Like, it doesn’t matter if you’re not on the field. So getting these guys to understand, okay, what is your routine? Now that’s really hard to find your routine when you’re 18 years old coming out of high school. Or some of these guys have been in college, so maybe they have a little bit better system. But I think it’s going to be unique for me to be able to help these guys understand what the day-to-day grind looks like to be able to come to the field every single day prepared to play because that’s the goal. The goal should be to play 10 years in the big leagues, at least.

Sarah [00:19:07] Interesting.

Aaron Barrett [00:19:09] With the demands of the game and everybody that’s especially on the pitching side, longevity is not really a thing anymore. So trying to find ways to get these guys to understand what these guys are doing to be able to stay on the field for a long, long time. Not just this year, but for the long haul.

Sarah [00:19:33] Yeah, and I feel like the strategy of just getting Tommy John multiple times is not a great one.

Aaron Barrett [00:19:37] No, it’s not.

Sarah [00:19:38] As far as longevity, you know?

Aaron Barrett [00:19:41] No, it’s not. And it’s hard. You have to balance it because the game is very hard. It’s very hard like I mentioned before. And so, obviously, seeing the trends of the game, where we’re at with velocity and pitch shapes and they call it stuff. They call it having good stuff.

Sarah [00:20:06] That’s a word doing a lot of work when it comes to pitching- calling it stuff.

Aaron Barrett [00:20:11] That’s always been a thing though. So the harder that you threw, it just affords you, allows you to make more mistakes. So someone that has a little bit more control of the baseball can obviously put it where you want. A guy that has like nastier stuff or harder velocity, you don’t have to be as accurate. But in the major leagues these guys are the best of the best. So balancing that, the demands of the game, while still trying to find ways to keep these guys on the field for the long haul, and that’s like the state of the game right now where we’re at.

Sarah [00:20:52] Yeah, and that’s a lot. Like what would you tell what would you tell a young pitcher in your clubhouse who had to go get Tommy John? What would you say to them?

Aaron Barrett [00:21:02] The message that I delivered now, because I’m a firm believer, again, based on my story is everything does happen for a reason. I’m a firm believer in that number one. So in the moment it stinks and now my message is you have to look at this as an opportunity. There’s clearly something. That was either the way you were throwing, your mechanics, or maybe it’s a situation like mine where it’s overuse. There’s clearly something that happened where there’s a link in the chain or multiple links in the chains. So now it’s like you now have an opportunity to... And we try to look at it from a very holistic view, not just it’s-- and again, we can talk about this a lot, but I just I genuinely believe that you have to develop a person first and then build the player. So I try to look at it like I can fix this guy’s mechanics. I can do all these things, but if the person is not being addressed and we’re not finding the root causes of some of these other things, then we’re not going to be able to build the players the best of our abilities. In my opinion, that’s how I [inaudible] in my community.

Sarah [00:22:22] I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me when you’re talking about a game that’s as complex as this, that is as demanding as this. To me what you’re seeing with these trends is like what you were talking about like there’s a lot of focus on velocity or there’s a lot of focus on mechanics but the overall philosophy of the longevity of the player or the strength of the team or however you want to put it like to me that makes lot of sense that it’s what you’ve heard for a long time around professional players. Like in all leagues they always talk about people get into this and really, yeah, they needed to become the best player, but they also needed to understand how to manage the demands of being a professional athlete like financially, spiritually, psychologically, like it’s like a very holistic integrated impact. And so your strategy to manage it has to be holistic and integrated.

Aaron Barrett [00:23:17] Yeah, it has to be, and that’s kind of the fun part. I think now being on the other side where I think as a player, again, you’re not supposed to think about it. You just have to do your job. But now being on the other side, seeing all the pieces that go into, again, like one of our mottos is like putting the player first. So, and I genuinely believe that like every decision that is made, it has to be down to like what is best for the player. So if you keep that as your North Star, you know that all the decisions that you make every single day, knowing that you’re not going to be perfect or right, but you are doing everything you can that serves the player. And when I was a player, I genuinely felt which coaches or whoever that was, that had my best interests, not only just as a baseball player, but as a person. And so players know. I mean, we just do. And I think people do. It’s authentic. And so that’s been my approach. I don’t have all the answers. I don’t. But the players know that I’m going to do everything I can to get the answers they’re looking for.

Sarah [00:24:37] Well, hopefully you’ll be there and so early in their journey that they’ll it’ll be definitional for what that relationship should feel like. I think that’s the power of being there when they’re just starting their career, is to say, like, this is the this is what you’re looking for. And it’s like having your first boss be a good boss. It makes all the difference.

Aaron Barrett [00:24:55] Yeah, I hope so. Again, I’m going to be me. I’m not perfect. Every day I’m trying to strive to be the best version of myself and that’s another message I try to get these guys to understand too. We’re on the process of excellence. What does that actually look like?

Sarah [00:25:17] I like calling it a process. It’s a process of excellence.

Aaron Barrett [00:25:21] Because it is.

Sarah [00:25:23] Yeah, that’s good. I like that. Okay. Here’s another question I have for you. Could be a little controversial, but when you said player first, I couldn’t help but think about this new $300 million deal that Major League Baseball has signed with Polymarket. Pantsuit Politics has some firm opinions about sports gambling and the pressure it puts on players. What did you think about when you heard that deal announced?

Aaron Barrett [00:25:47] Oh, man. I mean, everything’s driven by a dollar. The gambling thing is interesting. We had a couple of players, I think, last year that got in trouble for some gambling stuff. It’s tough. Again, I’m not playing, so I don’t know exactly how the players truly feel about this. But I just think when you’re looking at it from the fan perspective now where all I’m hearing like death threats and comments on social media where fans are coming in guys DMs like because you blew this game or because they lost money. Correct. And it’s just like that’s not the fan experience in my opinion.

Sarah [00:26:35] First of all, people are crazy enough when there is no money riding on the game. People will jerk a foul ball out of a child’s hands. You know what I’m saying? Like they’re wrapped up into it before the money even gets involved.

Aaron Barrett [00:26:49] Yeah. And that part’s sad to me a little bit because again being a player and I’ve been in many, many bull tons and one thing that I always like to do was I actually like to interact with the fans. There’s just something I-- it’s funny fans think that there’s like this invisible fence or wall and they’re like they can say whatever they want to you and then like the moment you like look at them and interact with them like kind of are like oh...

Sarah [00:27:20] Oh crap.

Aaron Barrett [00:27:22] Right. You want to go have a conversation after the game? Let’s go. You know what I mean? I have no issue with that. So I don’t know. It’s just one of those things there’s a part like, okay, yeah, this is our job, right? Like our job we get paid a lot of money to try to do our best on the field to have success. And it’s always one of the things that, like, let’s just say a guy walks the guy or a guy doesn’t get a hit. It’s like what do you think we’re trying to do out there? Do you think we’re trying to throw balls? Like we are human beings. Sorry, sometimes we’re going to fail.

Sarah [00:28:07] Well, and to me with baseball as opposed to like basketball, just like the physics of it and just like you said, like seven times out of 10, if you don’t get it and you’re still in Hall of Famer, like just like statistics and proportionality and all of that in baseball to me, it makes it way, way, way more like complicated, especially when you get into like prop bets and gambling as opposed the EMB. I’m not saying like one’s a better athlete or other. There’s just a lot more, like not chance, but like skill in the face of an enormous amount of factors. You know what I mean?

Aaron Barrett [00:28:40] I do. I do, yeah. So back to your question, I don’t know. It’s tough. I just wish we were continuing to try to grow the game through a different lens. And the gambling piece is I don t know. I understand you’re trying to generate revenue. And there’s a lot of revenue to be made. These guys are making a lot money. But I don’t know if that’s the best route.

Sarah [00:29:09] Is there anything else that kind of worries you about where the game is headed either through the fan perspective or the player perspective or anything like that?

Aaron Barrett [00:29:17] I mean, we have a big CBA coming up. I don’t know if you know about that.

Sarah [00:29:22] No!

Aaron Barrett [00:29:23] So we have what’s called a collective bargaining agreement. So it’s an agreement from the player association with MLB and that expires at the end of the season. So it’s kind of a big deal because there’s a lot of very interesting things going on. Again, I’m not in the circle as a player to know, but I know enough. We had a lockout in 2022 and I was in the Dominican Republic at the time when we got actively locked out. And that was pretty scary, pretty scary stuff, honestly.

Sarah [00:29:57] Yeah.

Aaron Barrett [00:29:58] So we haven’t had a true strike since 1995. And, again, the state of the game, how much money is being made. There’s an open, the owners have talked about they want a salary cap, which some of the other NFL and NBA have. We do not have. And there’s obviously reasons for that. The players obviously do not want that. All the players want is just competitively they want all 30 teams to be competitive and that’s the whole goal. If you own a team your goal should be to try to win. So that that dynamic has gotten interesting so we’ll see. There’s been a lot of talk about us not potentially having a season next year in Major League Baseball.

Sarah [00:30:46] Whoa. You heard it here first, Pantsuit Politics listeners. Well, assuming there is a season, what has you like the most excited thinking about this season and the next?

Aaron Barrett [00:30:58] This season, I’m excited. One, the Philadelphia Phillies, we’ve been to the postseason the last four years. So being a part of a winner is always a lot of fun. Being a part of an organization that is actively trying to win. And that’s, again, we were in the World Series in 2022, fell short. But we’ve been in the playoffs the last three seasons. So everybody’s trying to win the title. And that is, again, as a player and being a part of an organization that really wants to win, that’s exciting. That’s always exciting to be a part of. The players can feel that, too. So trying to be like, hey, with these guys that just got drafted and this kind of first step in pro ball, trying to like help these guys build their foundation of what does it mean to be a pro. Being a part of that and the goal of like, hey, at some point the goal is to win a whole series, being able to instill what that looks like. That’s what I’m excited about the most.

Sarah [00:32:05] Yeah, that’s really cool. Well, if you could go back, I’m sure you think about this a lot now in your new role. If you could back and tell your younger self one thing about this career in baseball, what would it be?

Aaron Barrett [00:32:16] I would say the one thing for me that I would probably do a little bit differently like earlier is what does ownership of career actually mean? And that took a long time and I think that’s multi-layered because one thing now that I feel like I’m able to do is have some really good conversations with players and like, okay, what does that mean? Because there’s so much information out there now, almost can be too much. And so if we’re telling the player who they are before they even know who they are based off again what the information is telling them, honestly, I think it could be paralysis by analysis at a lot of times, if that makes sense.

Sarah [00:33:15] I never really thought about this before, even though I do love like sort of sports history and the sports stories and that one of the things-- I’m sort of a student of fame. I find fame endlessly interesting. And the thing you hear so often, particularly from like entertainment celebrities, George Clooney talks about this a lot, is I’m so glad I was older when I got famous. Like the people who hit fame later in life, just like what you said, when they know who they are, they just handle it a lot better. But that’s baked out of the process of sports, right? Like you have to be young, you have to be like in certain physical capacity. I think that’s why Alyssa Liu from the Olympics like hit somebody so hard. But even her she’d gone through this process. She was like 16 and retired and then came back. And yeah she’s still young, but she’s kind of old for an Olympian. I never really thought about through the lens of sports you have this paradox. You have to be young, but it’s like you said, you’re sort of short-circuiting this process that helps you deal with that level of success. I never thought about that before.

Aaron Barrett [00:34:26] Yeah, it’s because whether it’s temptations or whether it’s-- there’s so many things they get through my personal story about the moment things clicked for me was the moment that I literally was like, yeah, I know who I am and I don’t really care. And that’s such a freeing feeling to be able to just let go and then again getting back to like I know who I am and now I’m on this relentless pursuit of excellence. And that’s the only thing that matters because at the end of the day, the only thing that does matter is controlling what I can control.

Sarah [00:35:11] Yeah.

Aaron Barrett [00:35:12] And in this sport, when the demands are so high because of, again, you’re constantly surrounded by failure, it’s tough.

Sarah [00:35:24] Well, and I think about you like you had such a good foundation. I mean, not to brag about our family, but it’s really great. Your parents are amazing. Like you had this incredible support system. I can’t imagine for some of these guys who don’t have that what this process must be like.

Aaron Barrett [00:35:38] My foundation and yeah I’m very, very lucky and blessed. And that’s the cool part. And that’s where I feel in a way called to again be in this position now and be obviously the way my story has been written and being able to again build on those blocks, because again, to your point you got to have the foundation. And the moment you don’t have the foundation you find out real quick and it just collapses.

Sarah [00:36:12] As a member of your family who’s been rooting for you this whole time, I was so excited to see you in the majors, but I’m even more excited about this next phase. I think that you’re going to be really good at this job and I’m very, very excited for you.

Aaron Barrett [00:36:28] Thank you. It’s fine. So traditional managers, right, especially in the major leagues are normally like former catchers. So me being again like a former relief pitcher is kind of outside the box, which again I’m very, very thankful for the opportunity that Phillies and Preston Manley and Luke Merton have given me. But it’s funny because like so every day I’m reminded of that of all the things that I don’t know. But it’s been awesome because it’s challenged me because I just have found out that I grow more the more uncomfortable that I am. And so I’m learning something new every single day and it’s just such a reminder every day that this the journey, my comeback and my injury and all that stuff, my paths of the big leagues, that wasn’t my plan. In my head, I wanted to be a Major Leaguer, absolutely. I wanted to win the World Series, but the way it was written was not the way that I had planned. So now, again, being in this position, I never once thought that that was something that was going to happen, but obviously God had a plan, and that’s where I’m excited to be able to kind of share all these guys have a journey that’s going to be written.

Sarah [00:37:57] And ways they might not be able to foresee. I heard somebody call it a process of success, Aaron. That’s what I heard somewhere a very wise person describe it as.

Aaron Barrett [00:38:06] It’s all it is.

Sarah [00:38:08] What is?

Aaron Barrett [00:38:10] It’s literally all it is.

Sarah [00:38:12] I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing that journey and your process here on Pantsuit Politics. What a delight.

Aaron Barrett [00:38:20] Thanks for having me. This is great.

Beth [00:38:31] I’m weighing in Outside of Politics today. Aaron talked about how the game is changing for everyone, and that is so true. And change is notoriously tough on baseball fans. Chad and I are, in many ways, very stereotypical baseball fans, and especially stereotypical Cincinnati Reds fans. We’ve been sitting in the same seats in Great American Ballpark since our first date in 2005. We raised our children at the park. They learned to walk in Scouts Alley. I have nursed babies in every imaginable nook and cranny there because my kids predated the very nice mother’s lounge. Their first games were when they were days and weeks old, not months. We love baseball. We are consistent about baseball. We are certain every year that this might be the Reds’ year. We are equally certain every year that it’s probably not. As baseball fans, we can be resistant to change and baseball keeps changing. Last season, we got used to new rules designed to speed the game up. And on the whole, it wasn’t so bad. As we watched games, I couldn’t even feel most of the changes. I just appreciated getting home a little bit earlier. This year’s big change is felt. We went to see our first game on Saturday, March 28th, and if you follow baseball closely, you have perhaps seen some clips of that game because the automated ball strike challenge system was as much a player as anyone on the field.

[00:39:54] So this year if an umpire calls a baller strike, and the pitcher, catcher, or hitter disagree with the call, the player can instantly tap his hat or helmet to challenge the call, and immediately the Jumbotron shows the pitch and the position of the ball relative to the strike zone as tracked by 12,8K cameras using software to create 3D renderings, and everyone at the game at the same time can see how accurate the umpire was or wasn’t. The system shows you where the ball was relative to the 17-inch strike zone, and if it’s outside, by how many inches. There’s strategy involved in deciding whether to challenge. A team gets two challenges each game, but if they’re right, they keep those challenges. During the game we attended, the Reds challenged five calls. They were successful every time. Their opponents, the Red Sox, were wrong on two challenges early in the game, so they didn’t get to challenge later when it might have mattered more. The stakes are real. Eugenio Suarez challenged two called strikes in a row with the bases loaded. My favorite Reds player-- now that Joey Votto has retired-- Will Benson, walked instead of striking out because of successful challenges. For the crowd, this system is pure drama. Baseball fans love to disagree with officials. To ritually humiliate them with multiple and indisputable displays of their wrongness, what could be more delicious than that? Except that it is genuinely uncomfortable.

[00:41:27] Chad and I looked at each other every single challenge, like, what are we doing here? The people in front of us talked about how much this had to suck for the empire. And I think deep down we all know that if some kind of AI system monitored all of us at our jobs constantly, we’d have our share of more than two inch misses all day, every day. Imagine thousands of people cheering and jeering those mistakes. I squirmed in my seat, thinking, there before the grace of Anthropic go I. Advocates for the new system say that in addition to increasing the drama and accuracy, it actually highlights how great umpires are. A 17-inch strike zone that moves based on the player’s height judged from behind the player as a pitcher is throwing a ball at 90, 94 miles an hour and a catcher is framing it to deliberately trick your eye. If you get that right more often than not, what a miracle. How amazing are these folks to even get close? But as in the rest of life, the few moments we’re wrong land harder than the many moments that we’re right. Baseball is a long game, that’s why I love it. So I’m going to wait a season before passing definitive judgment on the ABS system, but I am watching this evolution warily, even when it gets Will Benson on base. There’s a fantastic clip from an Orioles game where a pitcher successfully challenged a call and the twins manager lost his mind. And the announcer said, as only a baseball announcer could, “He’s arguing with the robots. You can’t defeat the robots!” And, honestly, that is what I’m worried about. Thank you so much to Aaron and Sarah for a terrific conversation. Thanks to all of you for listening. We will be delighted to join you right here again on Tuesday to catch up on whatever the universe has delivered during this week. In the meantime, have the best weekend available to you.

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