Your Calls Are Working

Senator Andy Kim talks to us about the responsibility of our legislators in this moment.

Senator Andy Kim is a normie.

Those are hard to find in American politics. A person who doesn’t sound like they’re working from prepared remarks. A person who seems super smart but also appropriately stressed. A person who can accurately name both the unique anxiety of this moment in American politics without tipping into apathy and cynicism. A person who can talk about normal things without strain - like tv shows and bagels .

Senator Kim is that person in our conversation with him today. His honesty was refreshing and just what I needed to hear in this moment. I hope that is true for all of you as well. - Sarah

Topics Discussed

• Senator Andy Kim on the Role of Congress

• Outside of Politics: Movies, Music, and Bagels

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Episode Resources

Pantsuit Politics Resources

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Episode Resources

• Senator Andy Kim’s official Senate page

• Follow Senator Kim on social media - Twitter/X

• NIH funding restoration information

• Congressional appropriations process explainer - Congress.gov

• Article 1 of the Constitution - separation of powers

Episode Transcript

Sarah [00:00:08] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth [00:00:10] This is Beth Silvers. You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. In the midst of what has been a really difficult month, we are hearing from so many of you that you want our elected representatives to know how frustrated you are. And we are really delighted to be joined today by Senator Andy Kim, who is clearly one of those elected representatives who’s listening to people. So we had a great conversation with him about how to be effective when you’re calling your representatives. He speaks to those of you in red states who wonder if it’s worth communicating with your elected officials. We talk about his overall philosophy about this administration, how he thinks Democrats need to build a movement that really counters the MAGA movement. And then he sticks with us for Outside of Politics where he talks about movies and music and his family. And overall, this conversation gave me a lot of hope that I needed this week and I hope it’ll do the same for you.

Sarah [00:01:06] We’d love for you to take one minute, literally just one minute and answer five questions for us in our listener survey. Our team is meeting next week to do some planning and prioritizing and we want input from all of you. The survey is linked in the show notes and on our website, pantsupoliticshow.com. It really is just five questions, guys. We’ll take you about one minute. Thank you so much for taking a precious minute of your life to share your thoughts on the show with us. We really appreciate it. It really was grounding to talk to Senator Kim. We also spent the Spicy Bonus episode of Pantsuit Politics yesterday, processing a lot of the chaos so we could have this grounding conversation with Senator Kim today. So if you want to hear our thoughts on all the developments since Tuesday, and there have been quite a few, you’re going to want to check out our bonus episode over on Substack.

Beth [00:02:08] Senator Kim, thank you so much for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. We’re really thrilled that you’re here and that we were able to make this happen.

Senator Andy Kim [00:02:15] Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m really excited.

Beth [00:02:17] We have spent a lot of time over the past couple of weeks just processing the emotion that we feel watching ICE and Customs and Border Patrol operate in communities throughout the interior of our country. And I’m really glad that you’re here because I don’t want to get stuck there. We have an audience full of people who want to be the most effective citizens they can be. And it’s hard to know when you’re contacting your representatives what to ask for. And I wonder if you could take us through what’s on the Senate whiteboard? What could the Senate do right now? What’s possible?

Senator Andy Kim [00:02:54] When it comes to like DHS and ICE in particular?

Beth [00:02:58] Yes.

Senator Andy Kim [00:02:58] So, look, well, the Senate first and foremost has a lot if we actually exerted it. And the idea that our constitution laid out is that Congress is Article 1, that we are the ones that give the direction to Article 2, to the executive on how to engage. Unfortunately, that’s been eroding over time. And in particular right now it’s devastating. I go as far as to say that we do not have three functioning branches of government anymore. We have one branch of government that’s just trying to dominate the other two. And then we see that manifested. But, look, like some of the things that I keep hearing about from people in New Jersey is we don’t want ICE or CBP being able to just have these administrative warrants and be able to come into our homes. We don’t want people just stopping us on the street corner and demanding to know if we’re a citizen or not. I literally have community leaders telling me that they’re carrying around passports now or they’re green cards now just because they’re so fearful of being stopped and having that and what could ensue from that. Those are all things that Congress could require. Like requiring accountability. Like how hard is it for us to have an independent investigation about these shootings? I don’t trust DHS to do an investigation of their own. I don’t even trust DOJ. I don’t trust attorney general Bondi to be able to do this. We need a true independent investigation.

[00:04:38] That’s again something that Congress can mandate and push on. It’s just that we just see congressional leaders on the Republican side just unwilling to do their jobs. I often, for instance, call Speaker Johnson Secretary Johnson because he acts more like a cabinet official in the Trump administration rather than a leader of a separate branch of government. So, look, I’m not going to just make excuses and point fingers, but to answer your question, there’s so much that Congress can do. There’s so much that Congress can do like saying like, look, CBP, it’s about border patrol, they should operate near the border, they should be able to go wherever they want. These are things that we can require. And some of these things are things that you know we have required in the past, but this administration just actively chooses not to follow. And that’s because so much of this is just masterminded by Stephen Miller, who I believe is the most dangerous person in this country. Someone who is pushing all of this agenda and really has to get to the core of the problem, which is a deep rot in this administration about their beliefs in this country and what diversity means, what plurality means, and it’s such a scary moment.

Sarah [00:06:06] If you were to tell one of our listeners like when you call this should be the top priority ask because that’s what people ask us all the time, especially with regards to government funding as we’re coming up on this deadline. There’s a lot of chatter about should we remove this funding from the appropriation bill so they can continue negotiations and require more of DHS? Is that where you feel like everybody is solidifying around that next step?

Senator Andy Kim [00:06:33] Yeah, so first and foremost is we need to have these independent votes on these appropriations bills. We can’t just have them all lumped in. The reason why they’re trying to lump it in is because they know that there’s huge debate and concern about DHS. So they’re hoping that because we want to see, for instance, on the health appropriations, look, we were able to restore a lot of the funding to NIH that Trump cut. It’s not the full measure of what I want, but it’s better than where we’re at right now. So Republicans are hoping that they can just kind of leverage that. And they need to learn that that’s not the case and it shouldn’t just be about what the Democrats are willing to do. Your listeners and the viewers I’m sure they live all over the country and they live in places where they have Republican members of Congress and senators and they need to hear from you all. And when you look at what’s happened, whether it’s Bovino being pushed out of his top job, or some of the backtracking that the Republicans have done this week, I hope you all, the viewers, I hope you see it’s because of your voice and your noise and just saying like this is not the America that I want to raise my kids and my grandkids in. This not a partisan issue. This is something that just gets deep to the core about what we expect in terms of safety and stability in our own nation. And so it’s important that they are hearing from you. And the other thing I’ll just say is yes, if you have certain ideas going forward, separating out the bills, I really say pushing for, again, showing bipartisanship, showing unanimity around these ideas of accountability, about independent investigation. Like Republicans are saying we should have independent investigations.

[00:08:38] About again not requiring that we’re carrying out our passports and needing to fear for our own safety on our own streets or in our own homes. Like that should just be a no-brainer. So those are things. The other thing I’ll just say, though, is when people are making calls or when you’re engaging with me or others, it’s really helpful and important for us to hear it in terms of your own story. Hearing about what fears you have. Like I said, I’ve raised the issue about passwords because people are doing it. And we live in a time right now when people feel like they have to carry papers around on their citizenship. Like that’s insane that we’re at that place. It really hits home to me just what people are experiencing. So, when you’re calling, please feel free to tell us your ideas, if there are bills or other things you want us to engage. But what’s most important for me is hearing your stories, hearing your raw emotions, hearing your concerns, hearing your worries about your family because that gives us the context, it gives us something we can tell. I think so much about politics is about storytelling. And I think that right now we need to tell a story about how what’s happening right now is not the America that we are celebrating 250 years anniversary of, that this is not the America where we want to raise our kids and our grandkids. And that really is what connects to people on a fundamentally human moment. Like we need a human moment right now where we can all just say what is happening is wrong.

Sarah [00:10:18] I think that connects with something else I want to ask you. I find the most helpful thing to hear from senators or representatives, one are those understandings from your constituents because for better or for worse, representatives and senators don’t live in a closed media environment. They are out on the streets. They are hearing a lot of stories. They’re not getting all their news from Facebook. You know what I mean? Like they’re really hearing from people and their experiences. And the other thing that I think is always so interesting is to hear the vibe of your workplace. The other thing that we’re not hearing, we see the Senate only through people’s public statements and news stories. And it’s always so interesting, I think, to hear, okay, yeah, that’s what people are saying on Fox News, but this is what I’m experiencing and hearing as a United States Senator from my colleagues within my party and my colleagues across the aisle. I mean, all of America is so stressed and it feels so chaotic and scary. Is that the vibe in the Senate, too?

Senator Andy Kim [00:11:16] So just the other day we were in a closed discussion of probably close to 15, 20 senators, both parties about evenly split. And it was just a chance for us to just reflect on this moment. And there was just an understanding across the board for everybody that we are in just a chaotic and uncertain moment that has a level of anxiety beyond what many of us have ever experienced in our time in politics and government. People are like I’m relatively new in the Senate, I am a newbie, but there are some of my colleagues been here 20, 30 years that are telling me they’ve never experienced just this sense of anxiety as a nation quite like what we’re seeing right now. So, look, I’m glad in some ways that we’re able to have those open conversations with one another and not start from a place of just defensive guard, which so often happens when the cameras are around and that discussion in that room, there are no cameras and no one’s live tweeting it. It’s just helpful for us to try to have some of that. And look, something that I find different than the Senate from the House is that we are a smaller number. There’s a real expectation that we can have a channel of communication to one another; whereas, the House, you see a lot more of just the combativeness directly between members and that really impedes the ability to have some of this space. But I’m not going to say It’s easy, though, because after that initial discussion about how we’re feeling, how we are seeing things, immediately you get to this question of what are we going to do about it?

[00:13:13] And then all of a sudden you find impasses right out of the gate, and that’s been difficult. But that’s why I’ve been trying to start with this sense of, look, there are certain things that just widespread agreement on from the American people. And for me to relay these stories, in the same way that over the last few months, I’ve been relaying stories about people directly affected by the ACA healthcare cuts. That’s important because I know those stories are happening in every state. Or me being able to talk about how American citizens in New Jersey are feeling concerned about this or about someone who was just detained the other day and what that family is going through, like those personal stories. That’s how I’m communicating a lot to my colleagues, really trying to hit home in that way. But it’s a challenge. I will say just that my conversations with Republicans in the Senate this week, they are very much feeling the pressure. I would say not just politically, but they know that the American people are not on their side. I think they’re really feeling it. There are a lot of concerns, and I’m hopeful that this can be a moment where they can just break away from just this reflexive do whatever Trump administration tells them to do. There’s pushback against senior leaders like Noem and Holman and Miller, unlike anything I’ve seen yet from Republicans on the Hill, and that needs to continue on. And push on and show this administration that they cannot just do whatever they want to do, which is what their MO has been for the last year.

Beth [00:15:16] I am really looking for Congress to get out of this passive mode. I understand that as a representative, in some sense, your constituents are all your bosses. And I love the humility of that framing. And I understand the media environment is so intense and works against you in a lot of ways. I see how it might feel like just a pressure cooker constantly. And at the same time, as a citizen, you look at this situation, you think, well, they have to have more power than I do. How can we get them to use it? So one question that we’ve heard from our audience this week is, can Congress do anything about Stephen Miller? Is there a leadership muscle, not directly connected to that legislative function or the function of advice and consent, but some muscle to say to this White House, this is not working and you need to fix it.

Senator Andy Kim [00:16:11] Yeah, look, I agree wholeheartedly that this is something where we need to be showing just that action is demanded, and I think that that’s somewhat what we’re trying to do with some of the different appropriations bill like getting the NIH funding back in and other things which we use in different tools. But when it comes to someone like Stephen Miller, there’s a reason why he’s in the White House. It’s because he would never be able to get Senate confirmed [inaudible]. That’s why Tom Holman’s there. Is that they didn’t think he could get Senate confirmed in. And what I keep saying, and this is what I’ve been trying, I’ve been trying to demand both of them, in particular Holman, because I think he’s somebody who right now is directly in charge of operations in Minnesota, for instance. Well, look, if he is directly in-charge of operations and Minnesota and giving direct orders to a congressionally funded and mandated entity like Department of Homeland Security, he should come before Congress. He should not be able to be basically the acting Homeland Security Secretary in Minnesota and not be accountable to us. So that’s something, for instance, I’ve been demanding Holman come before Congress and be able do that. If he’s functioning as the lead of ICE and CBP, he should come before us as a functional lead. Stephen Miller, this is a situation where, again, having Senator Tillis and others speaking out against him, showing that this is somebody who is completely felt unrestrained and unaccountable to the American people because he can hide at the White House where they don’t require any Senate confirmations.

Sarah [00:17:54] Or on a military base where he’s living right now.

Senator Andy Kim [00:17:56] Yeah, exactly. Those are the types of issues. But there are different avenues that we have to the White House. So, for instance, another person I think is incredibly dangerous to this country is Russell Vought. And the OMB director is someone that needed Senate confirmation. That is something that should have a greater level of accountability to Congress. So finding the other avenues that we have to put pressure on the White House. The White House also uses this particular method of hiring people through these special appointments. We should just cut that off. That should not be allowed. You should not allow like Elon Musk to be coming in as this special appointment where he doesn’t have to divest from all of his money and all of his businesses. This administration is weaponized in using this unlike anything that’s done before. And we should just cut it off and say, look, if you want to serve the American people, you have to serve. You can’t just find these loopholes into it. And the last thing I’ll just say is remember the way I sort of framed this, especially being from Jersey, is what I’m seeing in the Trump administration is just mob boss tactics. This is just how a mob boss operation works. And, unfortunately, we know that kind of stuff from Jersey. And so, shining a light on just the blatant corruption that is happening, the grift that is occurring, whether it’s all these people funding the ballroom that are just trying-- if you look at who’s funding the ballroom, they all have business before the president. They all are trying to influence the president.

[00:19:33] And when you look at someone like Stephen Miller and others, these are the ones that are funneling all of that and creating that. And the more we can shine a light on that, the better. So, for instance, I’m on one of the subcommittees that does investigations, we’re trying to use our different tools and our resources to really dig up and highlight that kind of corruption and grift. I used to be a career public servant in the executive branch. I have a lot of contacts there still. I’m able to try to get and hear from them directly in ways that can protect them, can ensure whistleblower protection status and other things like that. So using these different levers that we have to be able to get information that isn’t in the public yet, be able to surface it and be able to shine a light on what Stephen Miller and others are doing and to try to find other avenues to be able the build the oversight. Those are some of the things that I’m trying to push on, to try and maximize it and make sure I’m not just sitting on my hands and thinking the only thing I can do is send out a social media post. It’s important to communicate, but it’s also important to communicate that we are taking direct action and that there are things that are happening that we’re doing to be able to mobilize. Because the problems that we face are so significant. We can’t just wait until the midterm elections to be able to try to save our country. It requires saving right now.

Sarah [00:21:04] I don’t know how you keep up. I can’t keep up with the stories of grift over the course of the week. I know you care about health care and that there was the one this week about the nursing home corporations that made donations and got the federal rule where you don’t have to have as many staff for the nursing home attendees dismissed that people have been fighting for for years.

Senator Andy Kim [00:21:23] And then that one got my attention as well in part because I gave a major speech a couple of weeks ago about how my father was just recently diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and how challenging that’s been for us financially as a family, but also in terms of making sure he can get care. And I raise that because this issue about care like Alzheimer’s doesn’t care if you’re a Democrat or Republican. The people that are affected by the challenges of care run the entire spectrum of America. And these issues about like this particular story about nursing homes, it can hit a note and a thread within us that can really get past some of the partisan in divisions that we have. We can break through them because no one wants seniors that are vulnerable or disabled or suffering from illnesses and challenges to be taken advantage of for profit. The idea that people are profiting off of and try to pocket Medicaid money or this or that at the expense of some of the most vulnerable people that are very well our grandparents, our parents. Those are the things that we need to shine a light on. Those are the things I can break through in the same way that what’s happening in Minnesota is breaking through beyond just the partisanship. There are other issues like that. And that’s why it’s important. I think corruption is one of the deepest ones because we live in the time of the greatest amount of distrust in government, right? Like in my home state, 84% of people in New Jersey believe that their elected officials are corrupt and they’re not entirely wrong. I am in the US Senate because of a corruption scandal with predecessor. So we need to engage on this because Trump got into power in part because he was talking about cleaning this up, taking this on. And he’s not somebody that came from--

Sarah [00:23:37] He’s going to drain the swamp.

Senator Andy Kim [00:23:39] And then what we realized is he’s draining it just right for him. Like his inaugural speech, when he talks about a golden age, well, we realize now a year in it’s not a golden age for me and you. It’s a golden age for billionaires that were on stage with him. It’s the golden age for GEO Group and CoreCivic, these for-profit detention companies that are working with ICE and CBP, putting away thousands of people and making billions of dollars. Like, that’s who the golden age is for. And the more that we show that, the more than we say, hey, look, Trump has made billions of dollar since January 20th last year. How much has your family made? The more that we can really expose just what is happening, which is just a level of profiting off of the Oval Office and our public government in a way that we’ve never seen.

Sarah [00:24:28] Never seen.

Beth [00:24:30] First, I just want to say Alzheimer’s is hard and thanks for sharing that with us and I’ll be thinking about you all. We’ve been through that in my family a couple of times and it’s brutal. I have appreciated how much you’ve been out in front and saying, hey, they are doing everything they can to overwhelm you so that you don’t pick up on these threads that can break through, that can speak to people of all political persuasions that your everyday life. In that vein, I want to ask you if you share some of the worries that we’re hearing from our audience. Are you worried about election security in the midterms? Are you worried about having free and fair elections this year?

Senator Andy Kim [00:25:07] I am worried about it. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried about it. I will say that the fact that we’ve seen a number of-- we had major elections in New Jersey this past year, in Virginia this past here, and in special elections all throughout the country. The fact that I haven’t seen any significant effort to try to undermine those or question the results gives me a little bit more comfort that if there really was an apparatus underway to the extent of my worst fears, I think we would have seen some of that already trying to discredit democratic strength in these different elections. But the main thing is we need to be prepared for the worst. And in New Jersey, I can speak for that. I know they did in Virginia too. We went to the maximum when it comes to election observers, in terms of having lawyers on hand ready to be able to dive in at a moment’s notice, really trying to work with the Secretary of State and others and clerks and others to have eyes dotted, T’s crossed on the ballots and everything else trying to anticipate what the questions will be, make sure everything’s in strong order. So I felt like it gives a bit of a roadmap for what we can try to do elsewhere around country. And I’ve been engaged with people all over the nation, as well as senators from all over the country, talking about this directly. I even had a conversation with the governor yesterday-- not my government, but another governor was asking about these questions. So we’re trying to do that. Now, the challenge is that’s fine in a state where it’s a democratic governor and has the Democratic points. What we’re trying to get a sense of is what are the areas where we are most concerned, are there certain people in positions of power influence that over elections that may seek to potentially use their power to undermine credibility. And so mapping that out and trying to make sure we have ability to shine a light on that and counter that is important. So I’m concerned about it, but I hope people know there is a lot of effort going into preparation for that. We ran through a lot in the ‘24 cycle and we ran through that a lot in the ‘25 cycle getting ready for the midterms.

Beth [00:27:44] A lot of people were introduced to you by seeing you cleaning up in the Capitol after January 6. I want to ask you if you’re worried about Trump trying to stay in power again at the end of this term.

Senator Andy Kim [00:27:58] It certainly scares me how he keeps talking about it. He has a Trump 2028 hats and whatnot. I think that that’s scary because regardless of what he actually does, he is undermining the credibility of our constitution just by making it seem like it’s possible or even talking about it. And so that just needs to stop. And the fact that the Republicans, including some of my colleagues, the number of the Republican senators I talk to willfully admit to me that’s completely wrong. That is not something that’s constitutionally allowed. And I’m just like say it out loud.

Sarah [00:28:41] In front of a mic, preferably.

Senator Andy Kim [00:28:44] There should be no uncertainty about his ineligibility to run again, and that is something that just needs to push and get out there. Look, it concerns me. There are a lot of things that concern me. Even if he doesn’t, just the ability for him to pardon himself and pardon everybody who’s ever worked in his administration to try to reduce accountability. And no doubt, even if Trump doesn’t run again, he will try to influence whoever comes next and have them do his bidding. And this is something that I want people, and I know many understand, but I keep hitting home, especially at the Capitol, which is like, look, for all his faults and all of the things he’s doing horribly wrong, when you look at what Trump is, he is a movement leader. He is a leader of a MAGA movement. And this is exactly why just politics as usual doesn’t work. Like we cannot think about this as just like two political parties trying to engage. There is no Republican party anymore. It’s been completely captured by this MAGA movement. And you see it by how senators feel like they have to do to whatever Trump says otherwise with one tweet he could ruin their political career and his political career, right? So they’re fearful about that. But that shows that for us we have to build our own movement. We cannot take on a MAGA movement just through normal political processes. We need to think about our work as a movement. And that’s what I keep saying is we need champions both inside and outside of government working together to build that kind of movement. And so that’s what we need to mobilize for us to be able to stand up against this because the threat will not be over the day that Trump is no longer in the Oval Office. We learned that lesson before. This is going to be a long-term problem that we will sustain, things that have been unleashed in our country. There’s a bit of a Pandora’s box here. There are things that are happening in this country right now that are not reversible. There are things that we have to understand are broken and we’re not going to be able to just fix it all with a Democratic trifecta down the road, right? And we really need to think strategically about how we go about this.

Sarah [00:31:19] Do you have a few minutes to talk to us about Outside of Politics?

Senator Andy Kim [00:31:22] Sure, please.

Sarah [00:31:24] Please! Right? That’s how we feel at the end of every episode. Please! Okay, so first off, we’ve got Oscar noms and we hear you’re a film guy.

Senator Andy Kim [00:31:44] Yeah

Sarah [00:31:44] How many of the best picture nominees have you seen?

Senator Andy Kim [00:31:47] Oh, wow. I think a good number of them.

Sarah [00:31:52] What’s your favorite? Better be Hamlet.

Senator Andy Kim [00:31:56] I have not seen Hamlet yet.

Sarah [00:31:57] What? Okay, actually, I thought you-

Senator Andy Kim [00:32:01] [Inaudible] babysitter. I’ll go watch it.

Sarah [00:32:02] Now my boys are 14 and 16. I saw it with them and it was like having my heart pulled out of my chest and stepped on. So only go if you’re ready to cry your face off. Just saying. Just be prepared.

Senator Andy Kim [00:32:13] Well, look, what I’ll say is just during the snow day that we had, my wife and I were trapped in one night. And so we just kind of binged watched the show on Netflix Adolescents.

Sarah [00:32:30] It won a bunch of Emmys didn’t it? I feel like [crosstalk] Golden Globes. Maybe. Yeah.

Senator Andy Kim [00:32:34] Yeah, the young actor, I think he was like 13 or 14 when he filmed it. He’s been winning all the awards. But I haven’t cried watching something, especially when I’m watching something about like little kids and the problems with social media. But anyways, there’s so much great stuff that’s out there. And I’ve been really impressed with a lot of the movies that are out, but I’ll still have to check out Hamlet.

Sarah [00:32:58] They’re all very political. One battle after another. It was just an accident. Like, there’s just a lot of political movies out right now.

Senator Andy Kim [00:33:06] Yeah, they are. But I appreciate though that I feel like they’re not necessarily taking on directly what we’re going at. They were able to choose a way for us to kind of have a little bit of a step back. So I found that to be-- I don’t think I would have been able to take something that’s directly related to what we are going through because what we were going through feels like it’s hard enough.

Sarah [00:33:31] So true.

Beth [00:33:31] Well on my list for Outside of Politics for you is I heard that you’re a musician. I would like to know everything about that.

Senator Andy Kim [00:33:39] Well, I’m not sure if I can turn it, but you might be able to see my guitar on the wall. I got an acoustic over here. My cello’s over here. I’ve been playing music since I was probably like four or so. My parents often say that music was my first language because I knew my scales before I knew my full ABCs. I love it and it helps me just-- I don’t know. It was something where I think for a while I used to think that music was kind of this like extracurricular like when I have time. But I can physically feel when I if I haven’t played in a while, I can feel that I’m stressed. It’s like a part of who I am and the music. And what’s been exciting for me over the last 10 years I think is that I’ve been doing a lot more of my own music. I write my own songs that I’m working on that I’ve been putting off because of all this insanity that’s happening. Even on cello, I have been writing a number of pieces on cellos, which is great because when you’re a kid you’re just taught to play music written hundreds of years ago. There was no real effort to try to cultivate in me when I was in classical music to compose. And I just find that to be bizarre when you kind of think about it. I think I’ve learned so more about music and my own interest in music when I started to create. And now I got little kids and I’m trying to like...

Sarah [00:35:11] Are either of your kids into music?

Senator Andy Kim [00:35:15] Yeah, my older son, he’s 10 years old. He’s got a lot of talent with piano. I mean, he was a better pianist than I am now. And I’m trying to now push all my unfulfilled dreams onto him. It’s really great to see him just be able to produce. It’s just one of the most extraordinary experiences as a parent to watch your kid create something novel, right? And it’s beautiful to see him enjoying it. I wish he had a little bit more discipline. I’m struggling as a parent to figure out how to like do that without becoming like a totally overbearing tiger dad, but I’m trying to find that balance.

Beth [00:35:57] Okay, so electric and acoustic guitar, cello, you mentioned piano there. Do you play anything else?

Senator Andy Kim [00:36:02] Yeah, I try to play everything in strings.

Sarah [00:36:06] It sounds like any stringed instrument is the instrument.

Senator Andy Kim [00:36:08] Yeah, I just love string instruments. I love the way that they sound. My wife was a jazz saxophonist when she was growing up, so she kind of has that side of it. So that’s good though. The one thing I think I’ve missed a lot, and I’m sure a lot of parents of young kids feel this. I miss going out to see live music as much I used to. That’s something that I hope can be a bigger part of my life as my kids get a little bit older.

Sarah [00:36:45] Okay, one more real quick. I need our friends from New York City to mute just real fast, just for like five to 10 seconds.

Senator Andy Kim [00:36:52] Just put the earmuffs on or something.

Sarah [00:36:53] Just turn it out. Just if you live in New York just turn it down. I think New Jersey bagels are better. When I worked for New Jersey Senate office, we had a fellow who would drive in from Jersey named Fern and she would bring us bagels from New Jersey. What’s your bagel order? And did you see that article about how Pumpernickel bagels are dying out and they’re going to stop making them? I don’t even care. I don’t even eat Pumpernickel bagels, but I was kind of upset by this.

Beth [00:37:18] Part C of this question, sorry, did I read correctly that you also are a bagel maker?

Sarah [00:37:24] Yeah, my 16 year old son has started making bagels.

Senator Andy Kim [00:37:27] I do. Yeah. It’s fun. I lived out in California for a couple of years when I was in school and there wasn’t like a good bagel anywhere miles and miles and miles. So I just started making my own. And I love it. I love the craft. I loved it. And it really taught me to appreciate especially like the importance of boiling the bagels.

Sarah [00:37:51] It’s wild to watch it. It really is.

Senator Andy Kim [00:37:54] Yeah, like a lot of grocery stores they’ll just kind of steam bake their bagels. Like, they’re not bagels. I just call them circle bread. Like that’s not a natural bagel. I’m sorry. So the boiling is necessary for it to actually be called a bagel.

Sarah [00:38:10] But do you toast? Do you toast your bagels?

Senator Andy Kim [00:38:13] Not if it’s fresh.

Sarah [00:38:14] Yeah, that’s a big thing. My New York City friends, they will scoff if I ask to toast my bagels.

Senator Andy Kim [00:38:20] No, I’m not somebody that will be a stickler for others. I mean, but I’m pretty traditionalist. I’m just like an everything bagel or a sesame or a poppy bagel. And I don’t like fancy cream cheeses. I like just kind of like...

Sarah [00:38:41] Don’t mix anything in it!

Senator Andy Kim [00:38:43] Yeah, nothing too crazy in it. Not too much toppings. I like it pretty simple, but yeah. We got a new bagel store in my hometown and in Morristown, New Jersey that we’re very excited about. It’s awesome to be able to see. I feel like that we were having more and more places pop up across our state.

Sarah [00:39:10] But apparently they’re not going to have Pumpernickel bagels. Again, I’ve never eaten a Pumpernickel bagel in my life. Why do I care? I just found it very upsetting.

Senator Andy Kim [00:39:19] Maybe I’ll just start drafting some legislation that will require...

Sarah [00:39:22] Real solutions is what we’re looking for here.

Beth [00:39:27] Well, Senator Kim, what a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for your time today.

Senator Andy Kim [00:39:32] Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation. Look, one last thing. I know we’re going through a lot and people are feeling it. And I just want people to know you’re not alone and please keep engaged. I often say that I believe that the opposite of democracy is apathy. And if you feel helpless these problems are big that we’re facing. And like I said, they’re long-term challenges that we face deep to the bone, but we can’t give up on it because otherwise I’d be saying that I’m giving up on the future for my eight-year-old and my 10-year-old in this country. So let’s keep at it together.

Beth [00:40:07] Thank you for your service and for being here. Thank you so much to Senator Kim and his team for making that conversation happen. Thank you to all of you for spending your time listening and for all you’re doing out there in the world, for all the contacts that you’re making with representatives, for all of the communication that you’re having with us, for all your doing in your communities. We’ll be back with you with a new episode on Tuesday. Until then, have the best weekend available to you.

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Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our Managing Director and Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.

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