Navigating Tricky Family Situations
Is it ok to stay at a hotel when visiting family? How do we prepare to best care for aging relatives? What is the best way to talk through divergent voting choices with people we love? We tackle these questions from listeners.
If you want to submit a commemoration or send a question to ask Sarah and Beth, please email hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com with "Commemoration" or "Ask Sarah and Beth" in the subject line.
Thank you for being a part of our community! We couldn't do what we do without you. To become a tangible supporter of the show, please visit our Patreon page, purchase a copy of our book, I Think You're Wrong (But I'm Listening), or share the word about our work in your own circles. Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook for daily news briefs, GIF news threads, and our real time reactions to breaking news. To purchase Pantsuit Politics merchandise, check out our TeePublic store and our branded tumblers available in partnership with Stealth Steel Designs.
Transcript:
Sarah: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Sarah
Beth: [00:00:05] and I'm Beth.
Sarah: [00:00:06] We host a Pantsuit Politics, a podcast with a remarkable community of listeners
Beth: [00:00:10] Here on the Nuanced Life, we come together every week to answer your questions and commemorate your milestones and hopes of bringing a little more grace to every aspect of life.
Sarah: [00:00:25] Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Nuanced Life. We're going to be talking about some family issues today. Staying with family, caring for family, telling your family who you voted for. So we're excited to get into these issues as we are all facing a Thanksgiving week, hopefully where everybody's just gathering around a zoom, but we all trust you to make responsible decisions.
Beth: [00:00:51] So we're going to begin with the question that Alise has summarized from several listeners, including Maggie. [00:01:00] When we are visiting our family members, must we stay in their houses or can we please please stay in a hotel or an Airbnb? Discuss.
Sarah: [00:01:08] I would like to say that my previous statement before you started this question, we trust you to make responsible decisions is also applicable to this question.
So just to cut to the chase, uh, definitely stay in a hotel or an Airbnb. Absolutely. You're in a grownup. Be a grown up. A lot of love is better enjoyed at a distance.
And I think that, well, I enjoy hosting people in my home. I do too. I also most enjoy them when they are obviously comfortable. And when everyone has their own bathroom space and are sleeping in a bed that suits them. Yeah. And do not feel like they have to tip toe around. I am personally at my best as a visitor when I have very much my own space to retreat to.
And so I don't begrudge [00:02:00] anybody who doesn't want my spare room.
Right. I think that's 100%. Right. I love hosting people because I just think there's nothing better than waking up and sharing breakfast and coffee and tea with people in the morning. It's just my favorite. But in my experience, even with hosting and being hosted, I feel like there are two speeds, excellent or awful, you know, like when it works and everybody has their own space and the chemistry is good.
It's fantastic. Like usually my best friend Elizabeth and her, her family come for like a week over new year's and the kids just kind of lull about, we're all over our house. It's awesome. But then I've been in other scenarios where it was so far from awesome that it was a strain on the relationship, you know, like I think that's the thing.
If the stay is going to enhance the connection, then don't hesitate. If the stay is going to strain the connection, then hop your booty over to an Airbnb.
[00:03:00] Beth: [00:02:59] Well, here's the other piece of it. You have to think about everybody in the equation because that hangout over coffee and tea and breakfast can often be truly wonderful for like two of the 10 people involved.
And I think it's important to notice that. And I also think it's fine when that's a dynamic at play for you to split up. Like if you're visiting your parents and say you and your mom want to have that lounge in our PJ's breakfast moment, but you know that that's going to be miserable for your husband and children.
Let them stay somewhere else and you stay, that's probably what the guest room better accommodates anyway. You know, I think there are just lots of moments when that vision is realized for some of the people involved, but it's not for everybody. And I can tell you that nothing has a bigger drain on my energy than knowing that the people with me are not enjoying what's happening. Doesn't matter how magical it is for me. If the people with me we are [00:04:00] very far from magic.
Sarah: [00:04:02] Well, and I think part of it is. You can deal with that. You can deal with lots of the issues that come up when you're staying at somebody's house if it's a relationship where you feel like you can be honest. Like to me, it's like a good guiding principle, stay at someone's home.
If you'd feel comfortable saying, Hey, this isn't working for me. Can we figure out this bathroom situation, or can you keep your dog from barking? You know what I mean? Like that level of intimacy where you feel like you can be authentic and transparent and won't hurt their feelings because you've either lived together before.
I think that's part of the deal with Elizabeth and I are we're so comfortable is because not, we, we were roommates in college, we've stayed together, shared a home, a multiple vacations. So we've built a rapport where everybody knows like you're messy and that drives me crazy. And I can say that out loud and that's okay.
Beth: [00:04:49] I think another detail to mention here is that that awkwardness can be placed even when the hosting itself is exceptionally done. So it's not really [00:05:00] about like the thread count and the deliciousness of the breakfast. You can stay in a remarkably nice setting and still just feel weird about it. And I think if anybody feels weird, we just have to say like, okay, pass, let's pay for a place. Let's have our time together. And then our time apart,
Sarah: [00:05:19] and this is a good, low stakes way to practice good healthy boundaries. My husband is convinced that part of the current spread of COVID-19 is just because we can't enforce boundaries and we're so hardwired to lean all the way out from social interactions that cause conflicts.
And it's just to get, this is a good little practice run right here saying, well, I think we'd be more comfortable at hotel. Thank you so much.
Beth: [00:05:42] Part of being able to do that well is just anticipating the feelings that brings up for people and speaking aloud that that's not what it's about. I am not saying your house is not clean, comfortable, lovely, really enjoy spending time with you.
We just find that we are our best [00:06:00] selves when we have a little bit more space, that's all. And we are. So looking forward to spending time with you later, you don't have to pretend that you're not trying to put somebody out. You can acknowledge that someone genuinely wants to host you and would do it well, but this is your preference.
You're allowed to have that preference. That's
Sarah: [00:06:15] everybody. That's absolutely right. You're allowed to have a preference, a good governing strategy.
Beth: [00:06:31] We also heard from Sydney and Sydney has a difficult question to talk about this relevant to basically everyone. And it's something that has become even more strained because of COVID-19. But as a PR dynamic, that's just going to be present in life at some point for almost all of us. Sydney's grandpa got in a car accident with a parked car as he drove to the grocery store.
And this brought her mom around to finally have the conversation that perhaps it's time for [00:07:00] him to stop driving. And he seemed relieved. Sydney describes him so lovingly as a soft-spoken introverted bachelor, who's happiest at home watching the cooking channel, but this does bring up a new set of challenges.
Because if he can't go where he wants to go on his own time, he needs lots of help. Sidney's mom lives about an hour and a half away. She makes it a point to help him often. But everyone is aware that this responsibility of caring for him is only going to become more intense and demanding. And Sidney says her mom is a kind and level headed nurse with an equally wonderful boyfriend who's also invested in caring for her grandpa.
But she's the only child willing to take care of the aging parent. And she has her own finances to invest in after a divorce from four years ago. And so Sydney is thinking at age 26 [00:08:00] about knowing that she's probably going to be a primary caregiver someday.
That she wants to save for her own retirement and also prepare to take care of her mom and her boyfriend who will soon be her mom's husband. This is something that's on her mind regularly. And wondered if we could speak more to the topic of caring for aging parents and specifically preparing to do that.
Sarah: [00:08:25] Well, and I also thought she was so sweet to ask how can adult grandchildren contribute to the care of their aging grandparents because she wants her mom to be able to enjoy this phase of life and give back after her mom has given so much to her sister.And I just thought that was so incredibly thoughtful and kind for her to be thinking about.
And really look from the financial angle, this is very smart that Sydney is already thinking about this for her mom. I would encourage her to think about her own long-term care as well, because you know, the best always the best option financially with long-term care is savings, right? That you would have retirement savings and funds to tap, but that's just not the reality for so many [00:09:00] Americans.
And if you're looking further down the road, there's always long-term care insurance, but that's not something you can really do at the last minute. I was reading about COVID-19 has caused long-term care insurance to just skyrocket everybody's looking into it. And so Sydney's planning far enough in advance.
I think that's a great option. You have health savings accounts, you have insurance policies and there's, you know, there's lots of financial options. I just think the smartest thing that Sydney is doing is thinking about what financial option would best be available to her because the further advanced you're making this decisions, the more options you have.
Beth: [00:09:33] Long-term care insurance is an industry was in brutal shape before COVID-19. I can imagine that it's gotten much worse. So those policies are hard to come by. And I think you need to speak to a financial advisor locally to get good options for that. But I want to say emotionally the fact that my grandmother had purchased long-term insurance also felt like permission for us to make the hard decision when it was time that [00:10:00] she couldn't live by herself anymore, knowing that she had decided that that was going to be part of her future to the extent of paying once a month and kind of reaffirming that commitment.
That that's what she wanted for her life. It really helped us. That's never an easy decision to make, but she, she was not able to participate in that decision when we had to make it. And it was really affirming to me that she had that policy and we knew that she would have agreed with us so she had been able to have the conversation well,
Sarah: [00:10:31] and I think that's the other thing it's not just making the financial decisions is much easier the more time you have to look at your options, but talking with your parents about what's important to them way before this becomes an issue and what kind of values they hold. Which will also, you know, start you thinking about these things for yourself. Even at 26, you know, it's not like this only comes with age, you could encounter chronic illness or a [00:11:00] traumatic injury in which it would be helpful that you've spent time thinking what's important to me in life, you know?
Atul Gawande is one of my absolute favorite writers and healthcare professionals wrote a book called Being Mortal about exactly this. Like it's important to sit down with our parents and for ourselves as human beings to think about what is important to me with end of life care. Is it important to me that I'm wholly independent? Is it important to me that as long as I have, you know, a beating heart and can take a breath that I want to stay alive? Like thinking through all these things is difficult and hard, but doing it from a place of love and preparedness with your parents is, is a gift to everyone.
Beth: [00:11:41] And none of us are fortune tellers. So we can't know the exact circumstances in which hard calls are going to come up. But I think articulating some principles that you want people to think about. If they have to make decisions for you is a really good idea. You know, these are the things that are most important to me. And also you are part of this [00:12:00] equation because that's what caring for an adult really highlights.
We are used to parents having to speak about the job of parenting young children in enormously sacrificial terms. And I think we all do that with the expectation that it's a short timeframe sooner than later, they will be able to care more for themselves more independently. And it's so rewarding and amazing, even though I think all that gives a little bit of short shrift to the support that parents need.
But on the other side of life, When you are an adult caring for adults, there isn't that sense of like, they're going to grow out of this. There isn't that sense of, we will progress towards greater independence. There's there is a Sydney's identifying here a sense that we are going to progress toward less independence, and we have no idea what the timeline is and no one wishes for the timeline to shrink, [00:13:00] but there is incredible financial and emotional and spiritual psychological drain as those situations wear on and so much support is needed.
And then when you layer in that, a lot of people are doing that care for their parents. At the same time, they're still caring for children. There's this period in life when the caregiving obligations can become overwhelming. And that's true of people who have someone in their lives at any age, who just requires a lot of extra support and the kind of organization that's a full-time job of doctor's visits and prescriptions and therapies. And so this is where I think from a policy angle, we can prepare as individuals as much as possible and do that financial planning and advanced directive preparation and conversations within our families.
But we need a policy solution. If not solution, we need support on a policy [00:14:00] driven level because caring for people in the United States has just, it gets harder every passing year and we seem to be doing a poor job of it at every passing year.
Sarah: [00:14:12] Well, and I would say, you know, as far as to the question of adult grandchildren contributing to the care of their aging grandparents and finding support for their parents, even if you're out of state, like yes, phone calls are great.
I think what younger generations offer is sort of that ability to do kind of broad and deep internet research and find solutions that like your mom maybe didn't even realize existed. As far as delivery services or caregiving options, or, you know, the endless healthcare startups and some of the services or web portals or tools that they offer people in long-term caring, giving scenarios.
I think there's a lot of those. And I think, you know, that's, that's a field that's just going to keep growing and [00:15:00] growing and growing. And that, I just feel like that's sort of like, that's something, a skill that a younger person who's grown up in this internet age, like learning that there's always a startup at their offering a solution. It might not be a great solution, but it's something your mom not even might not even think to look into. To me, that's like a good, a good skill that younger generations can bring to the table if they're trying to ease the burden on their parents.
Beth: [00:15:24] A really simple first step in that direction is getting an Amazon echo for the home because being able to say call so and so with your voice can be very helpful or the ability to drop in and hear what's going on, it can be really helpful. Another thing that you can do as a grandchild is just recognize where you have expertise.
Knowing that I have some legal background has been really helpful to my family in a variety of situations. And just knowing that I'm good at analyzing problems and communicating has been helpful in making decisions about nursing homes and medical care and things like that. [00:16:00] Sometimes it feels weird to step into a space with your parents as an expert, but when you're willing to do that and also know where you're not an expert, it can be very valuable.
And understanding that your parents need someone occasionally to take the decision, making pressure off their shoulders is important. It's a real reframe of that relationship. But I really feel closer to my mom and dad because they have accepted me doing that and appreciated me doing that at certain stages. It's added some richness to our relationship that I'm grateful for, even though I wish they weren't under all that pressure to begin with.
Sarah: [00:16:39] So your mother is already in a great space, Sydney by having such a thoughtful and considerate daughter. And we wish her family all the best.
Beth: [00:16:56] We have a commemoration from Kelly who [00:17:00] told her dad that she did not vote for Donald Trump and I think Kelly's commemoration is so representative of what we hear from lots of you. My favorite part of Kelly's message is that she said she had briefly considered saying that she hadn't decided who she was voting for, but she's literally the worst liar she's ever met.
So she said she just went for it and held on for the lecture she knew was coming and got it. She got lots of the talking points she said that you might hear on a TV, commercial, or a conservative talk show. She countered some of his views. They went back and forth a little bit. He dropped the subject. She looked down at her watch and realized that her heart rate was 50 beats per minute, higher than before the conversation took the political turn.
But she is proud of herself for standing her ground and telling the truth. She is proud of her dad for dropping it when he could have gone farther than he did, and she's happy that they left on good terms.
Sarah: [00:17:53] I love this. I think it's so important to just be honest and not to punt, to avoid the confrontation. I [00:18:00] think even for dads who react like harshly and with the, with the lecture and with the shaming or condemnation, even seeing the impact of that approach on their kids is important. And I, and just seeing, like putting a, an actual face of somebody I love who I know loves America and wants the country to continue and thrive, like putting that face on the Biden voter, it pays dividends even if you don't see it personally,
Beth: [00:18:29] I really appreciate Kelly's detailed note about her heart rate being higher. I think we give short shrift to the physical impact of emotional circumstances. And that it's so healthy to just acknowledge it. I worked with a client for awhile who was amazing at saying like, Oh, that's making my neck hurt.
Or I was in this conversation and my shoulders started to draw forward. And I thought, you know, you are like miles ahead of everybody because you're taking stock of those things and letting [00:19:00] your body advise you on how you're feeling.
Sarah: [00:19:02] Well, it's that mindfulness approach we talked about with Dan Harris on Pantsuit Politics. Highly recommend that conversation if y'all hadn't checked it out yet, but that mindfulness and I, you know, for myself as someone who has a really strong self narrative that I don't ever feel stressed, and I'm really good at handling it and until the physical ramifications become so much, I can't ignore them.
I love that she was so tuned in and noticed, like, even on that sort of like small, instantaneous level, she knew that this was raised rising her heart rate. And that, that was like an important thing to notice. I think I agree. It was like the biggest thing I noticed from her message.
Beth: [00:19:40] I'm reading, uh, Liane Moriarty's Nine Perfect Strangers right now.
And my favorite part of it so far has been one of the characters is on a massage table and her back has just been killing her. And the massage therapist asked cause she's been injured and she's like, well, no, but I had my heart broken and the massage therapist is like, but nothing physical. And she's [00:20:00] like, Well, I had a very physical experience of my heart being broken and the way that she describes it is just so good and so healthy.
And I think whenever somebody says, well, that's like psychosomatic, we kind of dismiss it when there is such a visceral quality to so much of what we're living through right now, especially with the pandemic and the election. I find that all of that is playing out in my body in a variety of ways. So I kudos to Kelly.
Not only for her saying what she needed to say and in the context of her loving relationship and working hard at that relationship, but also just being in touch with that side of it.
Sarah: [00:20:35] Well, thank you, Kelly, for sharing your commemoration. Thanks for Sydney's question and Maggie's question. And as we all head out for Thanksgiving, we wish everybody the absolute best of personal boundaries and transparent connection.
And the ability to be aware if your family is rising, raising your heart rate, they're all very valuable as we head into Thanksgiving. So we [00:21:00] wish everybody the best safe travels we will be back in your ears on Friday over at Pantsuit Politics, with a conversation with Kristen Howerton for International Adoption Month and until then, keep it nuanced, y'all.
The Nuanced Life is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
Beth: [00:21:28] Alise Napp is our managing director.
Sarah: [00:21:30] Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.
Beth: [00:21:33] Learn more about our work by visiting PantsuitPoliticsShow.com. To sign up for our weekly newsletter and following Pantsuit Politics on Instagram.