100 Days of Trump

This is FINE

This is the section of the Sunday New York Times I have been steadfastly avoiding for the past 100 days. Even though so much of this term’s beginning gives me deja vu, I feel ill-prepared to drink from the proverbial water hose.

Maybe that’s why we have this seemingly arbitrary milestone of a 100 days. New administrations always come in with electoral energy and lots of new ideas. It’s helpful to take a moment to zoom out and see what one can glean once the dust has cleared. With this administration, it feels more important than ever so that’s what we’re doing on today’s episode - assessing the first 100 days of Trump’s second term.

Plus, we continue the produce wars and discuss our favorite vegetables.

Topics Discussed

• Judge Hannah Dugan Arrested in Wisconsin

• President Trump’s First 100 Days

• Outside of Politics: The Best of Veggies

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Episode Resources

Pantsuit Politics Resources

• Mother’s Day Gift Guide

Judge Hannah Dugan

• Wisconsin Judge Arrested, Accused of Shielding Immigrant From Federal Agents (The New York Times)

• Did recalling the judge in an infamous sexual assault case lead to justice? (Harvard Law School)

• Revisiting the Brock Turner Case (The New Yorker)

100 Days of Trump

• Read the Full Transcript of Donald Trump's '100 Days' Interview With TIME (TIME)

• ‘I Run the Country and the World’ (The Atlantic)

• All smiles in the Kremlin as Putin sits down with Trump's deal-maker (The BBC)

• Opinion | Larry David: My Dinner With Adolf (The New York Times)

• The Very American Roots of Trumpism (Ezra Klein | The New York Times)

• Tracking Trump’s Cabinet and administration nominations (The Washington Post)

• Dollar Poised for Worst First 100 Days of Presidency Since Nixon (Bloomberg)

• After Trump Aid Cuts, Food Banks Scrounge and Scrimp (The New York Times)

• Duffy Rescinds Biden-Era Infrastructure Guidance (Roads and Bridges)

Outside of Politics: Vegetables

• Wanna Be Served (Michael Jackson)

• Milt’s Stop and Eat | Moab, Utah

Show Credits

Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our Managing Director and Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.

Our theme music was composed by Xander Singh with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.

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To search past episodes of the main show or our premium content, check out our content archive.

This podcast and every episode of it are wholly owned by Pantsuit Politics LLC and are protected by US and international copyright, trademark, and other intellectual property laws. We hope you'll listen to it, love it, and share it with other people, but not with large language models or machines and not for commercial purposes. Thanks for keeping it nuanced with us.

Episode Transcript

Sarah [00:00:11] This is Sarah Stewart-Holland.

Beth [00:00:12] This is Beth Silvers. You're listening to Pantsuit Politics. And today we are going to talk about the first 100 days of the second Trump administration. It is an arbitrary marker, but a time-honored one to look at presidential success. With new polling out, we're going to check in with how Trump's agenda is landing with the American people. We're also going to be talking about the federal government's arrest of a Wisconsin judge, very related to the actions over the first 100 days. And Outside of Politics, we're doing part two of the produce wars after a shockingly popular conversation about fruit, returning our attention to vegetables. What a tease that is.

Sarah [00:00:50] Before we start, we wanted to remind you that we have some great Mother's Day gift options. We've put together a gift guide for all the mother figures in your life that we hope will make shopping easy this year. Does your mother have a separate bookshelf just for political memoirs? Add to her collection. Our books, as Hillary Clinton once called them, book club staples, I Think You're wrong, (but I'm Listening): A Guide to Grace-filled Political Conversations, or Now What? How to Move Forward When We're Divided (About Basically Everything). Our Mother's Day gift guide also features our limited edition treats will get us through collection and other thoughtful options for every wonderful, nuanced mother or mother figure in your life. Find the perfect thank you for the woman who taught you the importance of staying informed. The link is in our show notes and we'll make a little easily fordable link for you. So if you want these things for Mother’s Day, you can send them to the people that will be doing the gift purchasing.

Beth [00:01:48] Up next, let's talk about the federal government's arrest of Wisconsin Judge Hannah Dugan. Sarah, over the weekend, I checked in with our team to see what we wanted to talk about on today's episode. And Maggie chimed in to say that she is very concerned about the arrest of this judge in Wisconsin, so concerned that she's like, "Should I be marching somewhere with a sign about something?" So I wanted to really spend some time on the facts to make sure that I understood exactly what went down in Wisconsin.

Sarah [00:02:29] Yeah, the New York Times headline on the cover page of the app/ website was pretty incendiary. It felt like this is a big deal, five alarm fire. I do not remember this being that high of coverage in the first term when the federal government arrested a judge under similar circumstances. And it was interesting because I had that sort of reaction and then I said something to my husband, and he was like, yeah, but didn't she usher them out of the courthouse? Didn't she actually do something wrong here? So my reaction got calibrated pretty quickly, at least under the facts of the case, because it was just easy to catch a headline like that and think, well, they're just arresting people who disagree with them. And then you dig deeper, and not surprisingly, it's much more complicated.

Beth [00:03:21] Probably a good place to start is that this is the second time a Trump administration has arrested a judge. The first time was during the first term. It was a judge in Massachusetts. That matter is ongoing. I think it was less splashy because that judge said, "I'll refer myself for a disciplinary hearing." The charges were dropped. We did not have the FBI director tweeting a photo of the judge in handcuffs. They have managed the optics quite differently this time.

Sarah [00:03:48] Well, and because there wasn't an arrest. She turned herself in. They could have had this option here too, to bring her in for questioning, to have her turn herself in. The judge in Massachusetts turned herself. So it wasn't that very aggressive posture around the arrest and certainly the reaction, not just from the Trump administration, but from right-wing media. Yes, the charges were dropped and she referred herself to the judicial commission and they have filed a formal disciplinary charge against her. And it's like the first time in decades that this has happened, but we don't have the outcome of that yet, even though this happened under the first Trump administration. And so we have this comparison, but we have completion in that comparison as we talk about this new instance.

Beth [00:04:35] I think that the fact that that isn't over yet tells you it's a big deal to take judicial action against a judge. It's a deal that the attorney general went on Fox News to give her view of this situation. Usually, the Department of Justice speaks through its court filings. Pam Bondi speaks with her mouth into microphones all the time. A lot of things are different about how they're handling it this time than the first time. Just to get us all up to speed on what happened this time, Judge Hannah Dugan, a Milwaukee judge in Wisconsin, had a hearing where a number of people's cases were being called on her docket. One of those people was Eduardo Flores-Ruiz, who is a citizen of Mexico. Mr. Flores-Ruiz has been removed from our country before. In January of 2013, he was removed to Mexico and the government says there's no evidence that he was legally in the United States this time. He was charged with three counts of battery, domestic abuse, infliction of physical pain or injury in Milwaukee. And from there, we really only have the version of this story told by the federal government in the documents this time. There is an affidavit from an FBI special agent in Milwaukee's field office telling us what went down in the courthouse.

Sarah [00:05:53] And basically, Mr. Flores-Ruiz was there on the battery charges. The judge got wind of the fact that ICE agents were in the hallway waiting to arrest him. First, I believe, she sent them to the chief justice who said, we don't want this type of activity in the courtroom, but hallways are fine. And I don't know if Judge Dugan heard that, didn't like it, made other plans, but ushered him into and through a non-public area for juries and then out into the hallway. And then I think they took the elevator down with the federal agents. They rode in an elevator together. And then there was some sort of foot chase. So I don't know once they exited the building if he took off, but he was ultimately arrested.

Beth [00:06:45] The affidavit from the special agent is interesting, beginning with the fact that six people showed up to do this arrest. So you had a deportation officer, a customs and border patrol officer, two FBI special agents, two drug enforcement administrative agents, six people, all in plain clothes, coming to the courthouse. And the FBI special agent says, "we come do it at the court house because it is a safe way to arrest and deport people for our officers. If you've come into the court house, you've gone through metal detection screening. So we know you don't have a weapon. So this is something that we do often." She also says, "We are doing it in a way here in Milwaukee where we're focused on arresting people who are there as defendants, not people who are there as witnesses, not people are there in family court matters or civil matters. But if you're a criminal defendant in the courthouse and we also want to deport you, this is the best way for us to do it. To show up at the court house in plain clothes and do it." And my understanding is that the chief judge was not in the building, but Judge Dugan sent them to his chambers and his clerk or someone got him on the phone. And he's telling them that they're trying to work on this policy, like you said, to figure out where in the courthouse this can best take place.

[00:08:03] But not all of the agents are there. Some of them stay behind outside the courtroom. And Judge Dugen doesn't know that because they're in plain clothes. And she is acting on, according to the federal government, a picture that a public defender had taken of these guys sitting out in the hallway and showed her. So that's how she knows who to approach. And they describe her as walking around the halls, looking for other agents to try to make sure she had cleared them all out, but she hadn't. There was this DEA guy left behind. And so that's how you had people stationed in different parts of the courthouse to catch them as they took this kind of backwards way out for the foot chase. But all of that to me says she understood that they were there to make an arrest. She had a conversation with them and knew that they had an administrative warrant to do it. She wanted to see a judicial warrant. They did not have that. They just had the administrative warrant. And she did help him and his attorney get out of her courtroom. And she did take his case off the docket for that day. She adjourned it. And so, based on all of that, the government says she has obstructed or impeded proceeding before a department or agency and concealed an individual to prevent his discovery and arrest.

Sarah [00:09:23] As with most of the incendiary actions the Trump administration takes, it feels like this is both deflection and red meat for the base. Because there's a lot of reporting that they wanted bureaucrats, they wanted Democrats, they were ready for the locker up promises to finally come true with the second Trump administration and there have not been enough arrests. And this was a way to ease some of that pressure coming from the MAGA movement to see intimidation and consequences as they view it for enemies of the administration. And there's lots of pretty gross celebrating among the MAG movement of this arrest. They want more; this is not going to be good enough. And also, again, with all this immigration stuff, we'll get into this with the first 100 days, but we've gone from like 250,000 crossings a month in December 2023 to like 4,000. It's way down.

[00:10:27] So if they want some aggressive immigration action, then they got to go about it through this way, through these individual cases, because they can't round up millions of people and fill these camps like they wanted to visually, I think, under the invasion narrative that came out of the campaign. And I think it is more intimidation of the judiciary. I think, it's hard to see it as anything else. This idea that-- I read somebody who described it as pushing them up against the wall and saying, that's a nice judiciary system you have there, isn't it? It is very threatening. It's very aggressive. Whether or not the facts of the case bear it out, whatever happens as this judge defends herself, they got what they wanted. They got these headlines. They got the red meat for the base. They've got everyone thinking they're willing to break rules to secure the border and kick out illegal immigrants and that's what they wanted.

Beth [00:11:33] I will say that Senator Markwayne Mullin pretty much confirmed what you're saying to Charlie Kirk, that Cash and Pam, as it were, are taking a lot of heat. And when I listened to the Joe Rogan conversation with Elon Musk, Joe Rogan expressed this frustration. Now, his was not about bureaucrats, but he said, like, where's all the JFK stuff? Where are the Jeffrey Epstein files? What are they doing over there? And they want a lot more people arrested. I saw someone this morning quoted as saying, like, "We thought there were going to be more names named." This was one of the women who works with Steve Bannon. They're just not moving fast enough. So this was a way I think for Kash Patel to look like he was really the big dog doing a big thing. And I think that attorney general Bondi takes every opportunity in front of cameras that she can.

[00:12:21] I don't think state court judges should be doing this. I think it is a very hard call when state court judges also read the newspapers and think if they take this person, they might take him beyond US court's jurisdiction. And so this to me is just the result of the pressure that Trump's approach to immigration is placing on the judiciary. I think the vast majority of judges would not do this. I also have some empathy for thinking, "Here's this person in my courtroom and I know that he is about to be taken. And I do not trust the government to manage that process in a way that affords him the due process rights that I believe any person who appears in my courtroom is entitled to." So it's a hard one. I hate the way they've handled it. And I don't know what you do when the system doesn't trust itself anymore.

Sarah [00:13:20] Yeah, because that's a weird position. And also I am a member of the system and will exploit my power within the system because I don't trust the enforcers. That's a wild mental journey to go on. As a part of our 10 year anniversary review, I was going through 2018. Do you remember Judge Persky?

Beth [00:13:48] Not that I do.

Sarah [00:13:50] How about if I say Judge Persky that sentenced Rock Turner?

Beth [00:13:54] Okay, yes I do remember that.

Sarah [00:13:56] Do you remember that we recalled Judge Persky? The voters of California recalled him, against the advice of basically the entire legal profession that said this is inappropriate. There are other ways to exert your frustration, disagreement, vehement opposition to judicial positions. Because he had won. I'd forgotten all this. He'd won re-election like four days after the sentencing. And so they forced a recall, got him kicked out because of this sentencing of Brock Turner. And as I was looking back, I was like, what happened to ol' Judge Parsky? A 2022 study found that the recall of Persky subsequently led California judges to give more punitive sentencing, which followed pre-existing racial disparities against African-American and Hispanic defendants and predominantly involved non-sexual violence. I say that to remind myself that whatever I find abhorrent in one side of the political spectrum almost always present in some degree on the other side of the political spectrum.

[00:15:18] And this aggressive posture towards the judiciary is not completely absent from Democrats or the progressive left. And to remind the Trump administration of something that I keep saying to myself over and over again, which is people don't learn the lessons I want them to. You think you're doing one thing with your judiciary. You think you know the outcome of the way you're pressuring and extorting and trying to pull the strings, but you don't get to pick that. You don't get to control the way people learn the lessons of your expansion of executive power, particularly with regards to the judicial branch. And I just think that's a valuable and important reminder for myself as much as everybody else.

Beth [00:16:05] I think that for a lot of reasons, I did not immediately look at this image and think we're really off the rails, things are really coming apart. Maybe one of those reasons is that I'm in Kentucky and relatively recently we had a sheriff kill someone. And so we're just aware that people in official positions are also not above the law. That is a thing that I agree with.

Sarah [00:16:31] Go back further than that. Remember ol' Kim-- was it Kim Reynolds? What's her last name? The clerk who wouldn't certify gay marriages and they arrested her, remember that?

Beth [00:16:42] Yes, I do. So I am not a person who deifies judges or any official. I do think that if they've broken the law, there needs to be consequences. I am concerned that because Congress is pretty well abdicating its power to check the executive, and we're leaving it to the judiciary that we are going to see this like glorification of courts, this sainthood around judges, that is not going to serve the institutions either. The judicial branch works best when we see judges as fallible humans put in the unenviable position of trying to interpret the law within a system that tries to check itself through the appeals process. And so, again, I have a lot of personal empathy for Judge Dugan. And if I were in her shoes, I'd have to really check in with my faith, I think, and my sense of ethics to figure out what am I going to do here and what consequences am I willing to accept for my actions given the whole context?

[00:17:47] I would have to really think that through. Am I willing to end my professional life perhaps because I think that their approach to immigration is so wrong? I would need to do some soul searching. At the same time, I think that the federal government clearly has responsibility for immigration and clearly federal authorities can arrest people in courthouses. And so this whole situation is just another stress test. We're having a lot of those right now. A lot of them around provoking the judiciary. And so next up, we're going to talk more about the first 100 days and our stock take of President Trump's maximal campaign to implement his agenda.

Sarah [00:18:41] First of all, Beth, I just don't think that we should get into this before we acknowledge at least we can't say anymore it hasn't even been 100 days. At least that's over. Listen, it's not nothing. You know how many times I've heard that or read that? So many times.

Beth [00:19:00] I'm a little sad to lose it, honestly, because I think for me it has been a calibrating force. I'll say to myself, just reserve some judgment. Try to be patient, see how this plays out. And that calibrative force is gone now. We are into it. We're three months in, so much has happened. And now I think I do have to figure out how am I going to track all of this that's happening and what the results of it are.

Sarah [00:19:28] Every week in the Sunday New York Times, there is a full page that says 'This Week in Trump'. And it's just a list. I don't even read it. Like, legit don't ever read it. I'm like, I can't. I cannot do this. I cannot. I don't know how long they plan on keeping that up, but it's very stressful.

Beth [00:19:42] I get the Associated Press's morning email and it is also just the list of links. You just scroll and scroll and every single one is important, is a real thing that's happening. The Associated press, in my experience, is not prone to making mountains out of molehills, but it just feels so hard to prioritize.

Sarah [00:20:03] Well, think about the calibration. When he started, the thing I told myself was, okay, I think he's really just going to try to keep him and his friends rich. It's just going to be a money-making scheme. That's the least offensive outcome here. And he is doing that. And it is so offensive, the level of corruption and pay-to-play going on. We're like maybe we could squeeze it in a bonus episode because we can't even get to it. We can't even get to the crypto corruption because there's too much other shit going on.

Beth [00:20:46] I am frustrated with the repeated use of the phrase shock and awe because I do find it overwhelming, but I am not awed in the sense of like, wow, I can't believe they're doing this. The more I read about his 2020 loss, the more I understand that they really have been sitting around for four years planning to come back, and believe that they would get the chance to the whole time, and have had these executive orders sitting in files waiting to spool them out. And still it feels chaotic and haphazard and still we're ending up in court about basically everything. And that's the question that I keep circling around. How intentional is this showdown with the court system in this overall plan? We've had more than 200 legal challenges filed against Trump's actions in this 100 day period. How intentional was that piece of this?

Sarah [00:21:46] I read through his interview with Time magazine about the first 100 days. Because the first and best option is to go to him because there's not really a consistent intellectual basis for the policy of the Trump administration or the Republican party at this point. It is just Donald Trump. And it's interesting to hear him answer questions about would you disobey the Supreme Court? What's going on? Why are you not bringing this man back when they told you to? And he does have a vision of himself as respecting the courts. He's like, I love the courts. And I think because, truthfully, he sees the Supreme Court as his court. He has some possession and ownership of it and they owe him a lot of fealty, I think through his eyes. And so, you can tell that. I don't think the hunger for revenge on judges seems as present with him as it does with some of the other administration figures, but there is this sense that if I promised it and people want it and they stand in my way, that's on them. He feels like it's not just that I think I'm super smart and I'll do all these things, but especially if I said I was going to do it during the campaign and people voted for it anyway, that's democracy at work and if the judiciary is in the way, that's on them. So I don't know if it's premeditated or if it is collateral damage. He articulates this view over and over again, not just with regards to the judiciary, with lots of policies that if I said I was going to and people voted for me anyway, so that should be enough.

Beth [00:23:30] He also has a sense that if it works out well for him, then it was right.

Sarah [00:23:35] Right, for sure.

Beth [00:23:36] This comes across in the Atlantic piece where he recently spoke to a few Atlantic reporters. And he was talking about all of the law firms that have rolled over, some because of executive orders, others because of the threat of executive borders. And he's kind of like, these are the best law firms in the world. Do you think they're going to give me $100 billion in free services just because? They know they did wrong things and they know they need to make them right. And they've agreed to do it. And so I'm probably doing everything right. That is really the tone of the comments that comes across at least in the written piece.

Sarah [00:24:11] Yeah, there's never anybody agreed to it because they were scared of me because I pressured them into it. They were full and complete conscious actors. They agreed to it, so that means I'm right and that they were wrong. They think they did something wrong.

Beth [00:24:24] I was listening to some comments from Steve Witkopf, who is Trump's longtime friend who's being deployed here and there and everywhere to make peace across the world. And Steve Witkopf was very flattering in his description of Vladimir Putin. And shortly after that, there was this piece from Larry David in the New York Times opinion section where he wrote a spoof of how great Hitler was over dinner. And I think that people read that as criticism of Bill Maher for sitting down with Trump. But when I read it, it struck me as a critique of Steve Wittkopf talking about Putin. I bring it up to say that I do read in both of these interviews that side of Trump that people find charming one-on-one, where I think he wants to view himself as floating above everything and a guy who gets along with everybody. Everybody's great until they're terrible. And then maybe they could become great again if they're nice to me, we'll see. There is an almost aloofness about it, like a practiced aloofness where I like about myself that I can be friends with anybody as long as they do what I want.

Sarah [00:25:32] My favorite was Chris Cribbs. I think this is a direct quote. "I think Chris Cribs was a disgrace to our country." I think he was. I think he was terrible. By the way, I don't know him. That is a direct quote. I'm not emphasizing for irony or humor. That is directly quote. By the way, I don't know him. The themes of the excuses as you go through all of his major areas of the 100 days, provoking the judiciary, immigration and law enforcement, the economy, he floats between it's only been three months so it doesn't matter. I've only had three months; you can't be mad at me. I really like the question, speaking of Putin, the Times guy really pressed him. "You said that you were going to end the war in Ukraine before you were sworn in. That you just getting elected would do it, would end this conflict." And he's like, "I was kidding. Everybody knew I was kidding. And plus I've only had three months." Because then the guy's like, "But you said you're going to do it immediately." I was just playing. So there's the three months, there's a Joe Biden's fault. That's a popular one.

[00:26:39] And, look, there is a part of me, as more and more comes out and you talk about these plans they had, that I think often our enemies can see us more clearly than we can see ourselves. They cannot see themselves clearly, but they saw Joe Biden and his weaknesses and his perception by the American people very clearly, the unpopularity of his policies very clearly. Very clearly. And you can tell that that's an obsession, that it's his fault and all this is the problem because he goes back to it over and over again if he's trapped. And then there's a lot of just it's not me, I'm not in charge. It's either I'm perfect, I'm the department store owner of America, everything is going to work just trust me, I have all the information you don't have, everything's going to be work out great. Or I don't know. I don't know anything about that. You have to ask my lawyers.

Beth [00:27:31] He totally would be fine with Abrego Garcia coming back to the United States for a trial, but his lawyers don't want to do that right now. You have to ask them why.

Sarah [00:27:39] Yeah. It's wild to listen to somebody seesaw so dramatically between I'm in total control and I have no idea what you're talking about. There are so many moments where he's like, "I don't know what you talking about. What are you even talking about?" He actually reads him a line from the Supreme Court case to the immigration of it all. Where he's, like, "They said bring him back." "I don't know what that means." [Inaudible]. It's just wild. But it's also reflected in the 100 days of action. The seesawing, the chaos of it all, the blaming someone else when he doesn't know what else to say about it all. Like all of the way he speaks is reflected if you were to go minute by minute tick-tock of these first 100 days.

Beth [00:28:26] And look, this makes so many things true at one time. We did an episode last week of our spicy bonus that we do every Thursday about the 2024 election. And a few people commented that they are sick of talking about Joe Biden's decline, and they want to hear more about Trump's decline. And I'm going to be honest with you. We talked about how Trump seemed slower and less energetic in the election, and that's true. And he is older, undeniably, and there are some signs of that. But as I read his comments, just transcripts of interviews, as I watch him on television, I do not see him as materially different 100 days in than he was when the American people elected him. And so I do think it is persuasive or accurate to make a big fuss about his mental state right now. I think he is pretty much the same guy that he has always been. And until there is a material change from the person the American people elected, that argument does not strike me as worth anyone's energy.

Sarah [00:29:43] Yeah, I think he's changed in some fundamental ways, but I don't think they're because of decline. I think the assassination attempt changed him. I think he feels emboldened and less intimidated for lots of obvious reasons. Of course, he's less intimidated by the system and the process and the presidency and the trappings of the office because this is the second time through it. So he feels a little unleashed, a little unburdened. The quote from the Atlantic piece is he's having so much fun. Having a great time. But they're still the same things. And again, it's all present in the first 100 days. I think one of the most prescient, insightful things I heard in the last 100 days about these 100 days was Yuval Levin on Ezra Klein where he said, "This is how it always is. The victor comes in, the opposition is tuck-tail and on the run. They go in big, they go in hard. They outkicked their coverage inevitably. And the opposition party finds its footing and then they're stymied by international crises and court cases and messes of their own making, and it'll look a lot like what he did the first term."

[00:31:06] And as I go back and review our episodes from that first term, that has shown to be true. We literally have an episode called The Chaos Presidency from 2018. I see a lot of the same things. I think they went in harder. And I think you see that the planning that they had the four years-- and it's not just planning though, right? It's not that they were sitting back planning it. It's that they we're pissed off. They were pissed off and they were planning. And that's what I see in these first 100 days. I see people who came in, raring to get revenge. Did a lot of it and inevitably are going to get out way over their skis and you're going to get confusion, you're going to get seesawing and you going to get stuff they can't even control that they have to deal with.

Beth [00:31:57] To the “this is how it always is” point, I just made an episode for More to Say, one of our premium shows, comparing the first 100 days to Project 2025. And one of the most interesting things to me was to look at the rate of appointments because Project 2025's central thesis is you need to go in and staff up. The government is more than one person. And if you really want to get things done, you have got to flood the executive branch with political appointees. And looking at the Washington Post tracker of presidential appointments, President Trump has been aggressive, but he's not blowing anybody away. He's just behind George W. Bush, where he was at this point in his presidency in terms of the number of Senate confirmed positions that have been filled. And so that's why, again, I think, shock and awe, not exactly. He's mostly doing what he said he would do. They had a lot of time to plan for it. They had ton of money and lots of powerful people falling all over themselves to say, how can I help?

[00:33:02] And they have done it and they have still managed to do it in a way that is alienating the American people. His poll numbers are really, really bad. The headline from Bloomberg Markets Daily today was worst first 100 days since 1974. We have retailers talking about empty shelves. People are like hunkering down prepared for a depression when he's the person who told us he was going to usher in a golden age of our economy. And so even with all of that activity and all of time and that fuel of being angry in the preparations, I can't imagine that this is where he wanted to be in terms of how the public views his agenda a 100 days in.

Sarah [00:33:45] Well, it just depends on anybody's telling him the truth. The Axios write up this morning about how people try to persuade him and how you have to make it seem like it's his idea and how they're like tracking each other so they can wait for Peter Navarro to leave so that Scott Bessent can run in and get in his ear last is bananas. But all of this, the chaos around the appointments and the administration, maybe that's a big difference. They got those appointments through even the more radical ones. But they're creating the havoc they did in the first administration. If you look at Pete Hegseth in particular in the Department of Defense and the in-fighting and Elon, all of that I think Elon is the biggest outlier to the first Administration. And I do think his handling of the economy is the other biggest outlier. Because that's definitely what we all told ourselves. He'll be beholden to the stock market. That we know. We know that.

[00:34:41] And this part seems different. And I think it's where we will look back over the next 200, 300, 400 days and realize this was the story of the first 100 days. The fact that he shredded decades of economic dominance, of America's economic dominance with these tariffs and with the seesawing and with just complete instability. To me, that will ultimately be the story of these 100 days. Because I do think we're getting really close to empty shelves and to huge, huge fallout from this decision, even if he rolls it back. But that's another thing from the interview. We're all reading that these CEOs came in there and got his attention, and that's why he backed off, threatening to fire Jerome Powell at the Fed. But in this interview, he's like, "No, they came in, they told me they loved what I'm doing." I'm like, what the hell?

Beth [00:35:43] I think this is another place where all the planning in the world can't account for the way things will actually hit once you've rolled them out when you're moving at this kind of speed and with this much power. Because we know that the dollar is becoming vulnerable in a way that it hasn't been for a long time. While there are people in this administration who believe that the dollar probably shouldn't continue to be the world's reserve currency, the implications of that are going to roll out over a period of years. And it's not like the tariffs where he can decide tomorrow to delay them or to exempt certain things or to lower the rate because he pretends that they made some great deal. That is the kind of shift that you can't walk back over a number of years. And I don't know enough about bringing a manufacturing facility to the United States to be able to say definitively there is no way that America could adapt to this kind of isolationist trade policy. That's how he describes it as an isolationist, trade policy.

[00:36:54] He says, I control the store. America is a store that people want to shop in. And because I'm the president, I can control it. And I set the price. For shopping here. And if people don't want to pay it, then they don't shop here. Now, he doesn't tell the story that that's actually wrong that people paying these tariffs are in the United States. This is a tax on the American people and on American business. And American businesses if they can't pay those taxes are going to close. I think his telling of it either shows an ignorance to how tariffs actually work or a purposeful obfuscation of how they work. I want to believe the American people are resilient. I was reading these interviews this morning thinking to myself, what if this just stays? What if he continues to believe in his own policy the way he says he does and this is just how it is? What if a year from now we are still at like 50% tariffs on goods from China and China stops shifting a lot to the United States? I believe we're resilient and that we will adapt, but I believe that will change our way of life. I don't think there is a way through this where we just spring back to some pre-tariff reality.

Sarah [00:38:18] No, because it has just shaken confidence so strongly. Consumer confidence, business confidence, corporate confidence, global economic confidence. We've talked about it on this show so many times. The economy is a vibe. It's just a lot of vibes. And we have built a strong foundation of vibes over decades. And he took a wrecking ball to it. And it's just so wild to listen to these interviews where he was like, they were ripping us off, they were getting rich. Do you understand that we were the strongest economy that our economy was the envy of the world? Does that mean that I think the economy was always serving the broadest spectrum of the American people? No. But in comparison to other countries, there is no comparison. And that's what's so frustrating, to hear this reality he tries to report. And the bobbing and the weaving and the just trust me it's going to turn out great and I trust these CEOs because they're telling me what I want to hear. That's why I trust them. Though when they say they're going to come and invest in America is wild. And we're past red flags. We're like in sirens going around the economy.

[00:39:41] And God save us if we have any other disasters to deal with: a terrorist attack, more global conflict, a bird flu outbreak, because he has created a disaster with us that's going to slow roll over the course of this year. I thought one of the most affecting parts of the time interview is when he said, "What if because of these cuts you've made, we missed a terrorist attack?" And he basically didn't understand the question. No one had presented this to him as a possibility. And it's so interesting, I'm listening to this and I'm thinking he insulates himself. People only tell him what he wants to hear. They're trying to persuade him. But he does do a lot of press where people ask him tough questions but then he just turns into, well, this was a nasty interview and you're not giving me a chance to answer. So I guess that's how he continues in his complete and total lack of self-awareness in the face of all these tough interviews. It's a wild thing to witness.

Beth [00:40:43] I think as we start to think about consequences, that what I'm starting to see in my everyday life is that the impact, not just of the tariffs, is being felt, but also the impact of these government cuts that DOGE has done. There is a great piece in the New York Times-- today we've talked about the New York Times a lot, but they're doing some good reporting right now. There's a great peace about how food banks in Appalachia are really struggling because the administration just cut a billion dollars in funding to anti-hunger groups. And I know that the song and dance from DOGE is we've got to get our spending under control. But that is another place where you're hurting the American people on two fronts. That billion dollars from USDA not only helps people who do not have enough to eat, it also pays our farmers for crops. And our farmers need those subsidies in a normal time, but they need them even more because of the tariffs.

[00:41:44] Sales of soybeans and pork are just plummeting to China right now. And there is no story about that other than the tariffs. In the first Trump administration, the USDA did $23 billion in subsidies to farmers to help them withstand the impact of his tariffs. So when he talks about how we're getting all this big, beautiful money from the tariffs, you got to think about that on a net basis and subtract what they cost us on the other end, sometimes very directly as in the government having to help prop people up who cannot survive in the business climate that they've created. And I think we're just going to see more and more of that. Fifteen percent of the staff at Veterans Affairs is gone now; 70,000 people have been fired or laid off just from Veterans Affairs. And I think the effects of that are just going to be felt incrementally and then in an exponential way.

Sarah [00:42:42] Well, and what was the reporting of the Chinese tariffs? Somebody had to explain to him like we can't collect any if we're not doing any trade. If China has just shut down trade to America, we can't collect any tariffs. And he keeps saying he's talked to Xi Jinping and China keeps saying, no, we haven't. We have not discussed anything. But again, there's just a lot of, just trust me. Just trust me. And it just feels like fewer and fewer Americans trust him. And it's hard to face the reality that they also didn't trust Joe Biden and as we're learning for probably good reasons. And you'll always have people who will trust him no matter what. But he's underwater and he's increasingly underwater on topics and issues that have been strong for him from the beginning. But I don't know if he cares. I don't really know if he cares about his polling anymore.

Beth [00:43:34] He doesn't care until he does. Because one of the questions he was asked in I think the Time interview was about taxes on wealthy people. And he talks about how he personally just would be really happy to pay more in taxes. He thinks it's a fantastic idea, but the public might not accept it. Remember what happened to George Bush when he raised taxes. And so he's above the politics until the politics prevent him from taking a step that, gosh, he would really like to do, but probably people just wouldn't have that.

Sarah [00:44:05] Yeah, nothing will stop him if he wants to. Even though I don't think that's true. I don't see anything in the first 100 days that tells me he's impervious to any consequences on any issue. Do you?

Beth [00:44:14] No.

Sarah [00:44:16] Even the ones he cares so deeply about like tariffs.

Beth [00:44:19] I still think fundamentally Donald Trump the man is just a man and he's a man who does really want to be liked and really wants to be respected and really wants to tell himself a great story about being a hero and doing the things that everyone else is scared to do and saying the things that everyone else is scary to say. And I don't know how far out in front of him some of the people around him are going to go. But I think that that's some of what's happened so far. What feels different to me than the first time, instead of firing those people who get out in front of them, I think now he wants to just spin a new tale about it. Pete Hegseth is going to be fine. They had a chat. He'll be okay. He's going to make it. Elon is a great guy who's been done so wrong by the press. He really didn't need any of this. He's done a great job and he's going to move on to bigger, better things. I think he just wants to believe that he has this supernatural power to turn anything into gold this time. And I think he's always had that a little bit, but that is what feels different to me. Not that he is in lockstep with all the people around him, but that he doesn't want to read about how chaotic his team is so he'll just kind of make a new story and that'll become the truth.

Sarah [00:45:41] Yeah, he's definitely always producing, especially in these interviews. And that's probably why he does so much media; it's because he's constantly producing his narrative. I also think, though, one of the differences between the first administration and this administration is he is in less control of that than I think he believes he is or in reality he is because of the further decentralization of the media. I think I understand him at the end of these 100 days. I'm not sure I understand where the American people are. I can't decide if they care more about politics or less. I can't decide if they are excited by the change or exhausted by the chaos if they really want change, or now they're like just getting too much change and want to go back to normal? And there's not one answer to that. The American people are big and complex. But for all the many, many New York Times profiles about, these are what seven voters think, or this is what independent voters thinks, or the polling and the profiles-- even Fox News had one. Did all these people on the street, what do you think about Donald Trump? That's the part I can't tell, and maybe because it's so decentralized there isn't a central answer to that.

Beth [00:46:57] What I glean as the hard truth right now is that voters are not happy with this. I think voters said, we took a flyer, hoping that he could make the economy feel good again. Hopefully, it still works out, but it's not looking great right now. And even with that frustration, they are not running to Democrats for a solution. And so, to me, that is the challenge; to figure out who voters might trust and what earning that trust looks like and how you respond. And so in connection with that, I wanted to ask you just to check ourselves and to make sure that we're being really honest. What would you give good marks to this president for in the first 100 days, if anything? Is there anything that you think has gone well?

Sarah [00:47:53] No, because I am so very concerned about this economic fallout, because I think the cruelty in which they've treated federal employees and really just wiped out so many important programs and processes and entire departments across the country. And I think the true nastiness with regards to immigration is awful. The things I maybe would have, a couple areas of foreign policy, I guess I'm glad they're coming to the negotiating table with Iran, but all their negotiations have proven to be so fragile. Not that they're not always fragile, but the breakthrough for that first phase of ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has completely fallen apart. People are dying in greater numbers than they have. Maybe he'll get somewhere with Ukraine and Russia, but that doesn't look promising. I'm happy they're negotiating with Iran, but who knows if you can trust anything that even comes out of that? So I hate to be this way, but no, I don't really see much at all that I can point to and say even he has the right problem but the wrong solution.

Beth [00:49:31] The one thing that I feel good about from the first 100 days are his comments on nuclear non-proliferation. I am happy to hear him say, "I think we should talk to Russia and China. I think none of us should be building new nuclear weapons." He said you could destroy the world several times over with the nuclear weapons that already exist. We don't need more of them. And I agree with that and I'm glad that that is his instinct. I think it is important to acknowledge that as ugly and awful as it is, (and it is, and I would not make this trade off) border crossings are down. His immigration policy does deter people from trying to come into the country. Again, I don t think that tradeoff is right. I want to be in a country that people want to come to. I think it is definitely not worth sacrificing due process and the balance of powers for. But I acknowledge that it has done what some people voted for. And then the other thing that I am I guess not appalled about-- not that I think it's great, but I'm not appalled. It's too early to have any results.

[00:50:44] I was looking at some comments from Sean Duffy in the Department of Transportation. And he was talking about under the umbrella of reversing wokeness and DEI, rolling back some requirements that the Biden administration had put in place about new infrastructure projects. And specifically about having a longer planning time to engage more communities in the process of planning for infrastructure projects. And Sean Duffy says basically that all adds expense and time to getting things done. And I think that's undeniably true. And I don't find that appalling because that feels like regular politics to me where administrations just have different priorities and they're executing those priorities differently. And so if Some of those rollbacks are able to get us building things more effectively, I wouldn't see any evidence of that yet. And I don't think of this as a building administration, but my mind is still open to the fact that maybe we had that balance off and some correction was needed and this could be it.

[00:51:54] Again, overall, I am deeply, deeply worried about where we're going, both in terms of economic issues and foreign policy issues and layered over all that democracy issues. I'm very worried about all of it. I just am continuing to try to push myself to be like, okay, but what are you not worried about? And what might be okay? And what outcomes are still available here on a longer timeline? And so we'll continue to follow all of that with all of you. And we appreciate hearing from you what you have noticed in the first 100 days. We are going to take an exhale at the end of this episode by talking about vegetables. Sarah, just out of the gate, what's your favorite vegetable? If you could only have one vegetable for the rest of your life, what's it going to be?

Sarah [00:52:51] Wait. I have something before that. Do you guys do the Michael Jackson joke? You're a vegetable. That's not the lyrics, but that's all I can think of as we begin our conversation about vegetables.

Beth [00:53:03] I don't know that reference.

Sarah [00:53:05] Yeah, it's a famous Michael Jackson song and I don't know the actual lyric, but I don t know where my family got it from but we sing it all the time. You're a vegetable.

Beth [00:53:16] I don't know that.

Sarah [00:53:18] Want to be starting something, Dylan knows the song. They got me. I don't think you should be able to count potatoes. Can we agree on that? I don't think that's fair.

Beth [00:53:29] Okay. Potatoes feel like their own food group in a lot of these.

Sarah [00:53:31] They're not. Come on.

Beth [00:53:33] You do so much with them.

Sarah [00:53:34] Yeah, and I don't think it should count. I just really don't. It's too easy of an answer. But my question is, are sweet potatoes in that food group, too?

Beth [00:53:45] No, I think sweet potatoes should count as a vegetable.

Sarah [00:53:48] Okay, so is my vegetable sweet potatoes?

Beth [00:53:52] I do love a sweet potato. Or green beans. I truly despise a green bean.

Sarah [00:53:58] What? That's outrageous. That's a terrible take. What do you mean?

Beth [00:54:01] I just hate them. I always have. I hate the smell of them. I hate the texture of them. I hate every preparation of them.

Sarah [00:54:05] Well, first, no! No, no.

Beth [00:54:10] Yes.

Sarah [00:54:10] Absolutely not. There's so many ways to cook green beans.

Beth [00:54:12] And listen, I live in Kentucky; I've had them all. And I think it's a great restaurant--

Sarah [00:54:17] You even hate like the fancy French green...

Beth [00:54:19] Yes.

Sarah [00:54:19] No, Beth!

Beth [00:54:19] I hate them all. I do, I'm sorry.

Sarah [00:54:20] No, that's a bad take. I don't reject any-- even with the honeydew, I still eat honeydew. There's nothing I refuse to eat, especially in the produce aisle.

Beth [00:54:33] Yeah, I just hate them. I think they're gross.

Sarah [00:54:36] No, bad take. Green beans. Give me your Southern card.

Beth [00:54:41] I think they're gross. I love lima beans.

Sarah [00:54:43] I love lima beans.

Beth [00:54:45] But I hate a green bean. I love a pea. I love most beans actually, but green beans, no.

Sarah [00:54:52] Sadly, beans don't love me. But I love beans.

Beth [00:54:55] Probably the Brussels sprout is my favorite vegetable.

Sarah [00:54:57] I do love a Brussels sprout. They boiled them for years. That's why they got such terrible reputations.

Beth [00:55:05] They need to be crunchy. You got to have a crunch on your Brussels sprouts.

Sarah [00:55:07] I really like the new way of cooking Brussels sprouts where it's almost like they peel all the leaves off and then they roast them like that, almost like their chips. Like a kale chip, but better. I really liked that movement with Brussels sprouts. The truth is probably I just like the roasted vegetable varieties. So I don't love corn. I know you love corn?

Beth [00:55:29] I love corn.

Sarah [00:55:30] It's fine. I don't hate it. And I do like more creative approaches to corn. I love street corn. Mexican street corn.

Beth [00:55:38] Is there anything better than Mexican street corn? It's hard to say. It's so delicious.

Sarah [00:55:42] Yes, there is. Like roasted root vegetables, parsnips, brussels sprouts.

Beth [00:55:46] I love parsnip.

Sarah [00:55:47] Sweet potatoes.

Beth [00:55:49] Just a carrot. A delicious roasted carrot.

Sarah [00:55:51] A roasted carrot, I do like. But they spent decades out there not roasting vegetables, just forever. Like just whole entire people's lives. I had my college roommate, Erin, she would really be so harsh about asparagus. And we were like, what's wrong with you? Asparagus is good. And then we figured out that she was eating canned asparagus. No ma'am.

Beth [00:56:12] I don't understand why we were canning asparagus, why we were steaming broccoli and cauliflower all the time when you can just put them in the oven and they're so good.

Sarah [00:56:21] My husband steamed broccoli the other night and all my kids were like, what is this? You didn't even steam it long enough. It's too chewy. But you have to be careful with those roasted like cruciferous-- am I saying that word right? Cruciferous? Anyway.

Beth [00:56:36] I'm never sure it sounds right to me.

Sarah [00:56:38] Because they're hard on your system. I hate to break it to everybody, but they are. They're hard on your system. They can cause all kinds of problems with people. I have to be a little bit careful with the nightshades and the root vegetables and all those types of the most delicious roasted vegetables.

Beth [00:56:57] Well, if you just ate broccoli or cauliflower raw, how does that sit with you?

Sarah [00:57:01] I wouldn't want to do that. That's a terrible idea.

Beth [00:57:04] I don't mind that.

Sarah [00:57:05] No. I hate [inaudible].

Beth [00:57:06] I'd rather have it raw than steamed. I want it roasted or raw pretty much.

Sarah [00:57:09] My husband just pickled some cauliflower and I like that. But I don't want to eat cauliflower rice again as long as I live.

Beth [00:57:16] No, agree. I don't want cauliflower pretending. I just want to cauliflower. I don't want it to be other things.

Sarah [00:57:22] We don't need to do that. We can all stop. It's fine. We tried it. It was a noble effort.

Beth [00:57:30] I get it if you're gluten-free or something.

Sarah [00:57:32] Yeah.

Beth [00:57:32] If you're not dealing with an issue though, I do just want cauliflower to show up as its whole self.

Sarah [00:57:38] If I'm eating raw vegetables on a vegetable plate, I'm just going to eat the baby carrots and the cherry tomatoes. I'm probably not going to eat the broccoli or cauliflower at all.

Beth [00:57:45] How about snap pea?

Sarah [00:57:46] No, I don't love snap peas. They're fine.

Beth [00:57:49] I love them.

Sarah [00:57:49] I don't like that stringy bit at the end. Now, what my husband really, really hates is bamboo shoots. No, wait, is it bamboo shoots he hates or the little baby corn? Now I can't remember.

Beth [00:58:01] I hate the little baby corn.

Sarah [00:58:03] Yeah, they are not very good. I don't like those either.

Beth [00:58:06] I love corn. I love corn, but I don't like those.

Sarah [00:58:08] Well, that's not really corn. It's not really corn as we understand it. Do you know what I mean?

Beth [00:58:12] What's your bell pepper feeling?

Sarah [00:58:15] Well, green peppers hurt my stomach. So I try to stay away from them. But I love a red bell pepper, orange, yellow, all the other colors of the rainbow. But green peppers because they're kind of like raw, so they make my tummy hurt a little bit. Lots of vegetables do. I know people that say they just live their best lives and their energy is so high on a vegetarian vegan diet. That's not me. I think my people are highly evolved to eat bread, potatoes, and seafood. And that's really probably my best diet. There's just a lot of vegetables that are hard on my stomach.

Beth [00:58:53] Interesting.

Sarah [00:58:54] I wish it wasn't true, but it is.

Beth [00:58:57] Do you think in your life-- I don't want to go like sciency about this. Just in your life, do you think of tomatoes and cucumbers as vegetables or as fruit?

Sarah [00:59:04] Yes, because I grew up in Kentucky.

Beth [00:59:07] You think of them as vegetables?

Sarah [00:59:08] Yeah.

Beth [00:59:08] Yeah, I do too. And there is nothing that I enjoy more than a good tomato in July.

Sarah [00:59:15] Yeah, tomato is the best. There's no doubt about that. That's why there's so much food that revolves around tomatoes. My husband hates cucumbers though, which I think is a bad take. I love cucumbers.

Beth [00:59:23] I love cucumber, too. Both my kids love cucumbers. We just keep cucumbers on hand because it's one of the few raw vegetables that they'll just grab a handful of and have them.

Sarah [00:59:32] My kids will down cherry tomatoes. Well, my kids eat all vegetables. They will house cherry tomatoes though to the point where we're like, "Don't eat those, they're for something." Like you have to leave them somewhere else.

Beth [00:59:44] We personally also house cherry tomatoes. I love them. And I love grape tomatoes. And I love the teeniest cherry tomatoes that look like little pearls that grow on these plants that become basically bushes. I hate dealing with those plants, but I love those little tomatoes.

Sarah [00:59:57] I didn't name tomato as my favorite vegetable, although I guess just on the amount I consume, it's probably the right answer. But it feels also like potato.

Beth [01:00:06] Like it's just its own thing?

Sarah [01:00:08] Yeah, like it just got to be its own and complete total piece. I probably could just subsist on tomatoes and potatoes in different combinations for the rest of my life.

Beth [01:00:18] So someone's going to ask this, so I'm just going to do it. What's your favorite potato preparation since we have named the potatoes are existing in their own universe and we love them?

Sarah [01:00:27] Do Taco John's potato Oles count?

Beth [01:00:30] I don't know that I've ever had that. Tell me about that.

Sarah [01:00:32] That's outrageous. Oh my God, they're so good. They're like the size of a quarter. They're a tater tot, but they're better than tater tots. And I really can't explain why. Even though I believe tater tats are the best of the fried potato world. I think tater tots are so much better than French fries. It's not even funny.

Beth [01:00:49] I like both. I think a crinkle cut French fry that is super crispy on the outside but a little bit soggy on the inside, they'll always beat tater tots to me.

Sarah [01:00:55] But they're never super crispy. That's the problem. They're never crispy, they're soggy. Every time.

Beth [01:01:03] So I will tell you that my Sonic, the Groovy Fries there are consistently excellent. They are consistently crispy on the outside with a soft inside. And I feel like there is some like--

Sarah [01:01:13] You have a dedication to Sonic I do not share. I don't ever, ever go to Sonic, ever. I couldn't tell you the last time I've been to Sonic.

Beth [01:01:20] Well, then you're missing the Groovy Fries. I don't know. Our Sonic does them well. I also think that like there are a lot of just like dairy freeze type places, like little stands that do French fries extremely well.

Sarah [01:01:32] When I was in Utah, we went to this place. Milt's Stop and Eat. And they had what was like if a crinkle fry and a waffle fry had a baby. It's the best I can describe.

Beth [01:01:51] Okay, I'm here for that.

Sarah [01:01:51] Still think about them. Why doesn't everybody make their fries like this? Everybody needs to look up Milt Stop and Eat and make their friends like this because they were so good. Again, I still think about them. But listen, I love a baked potato. Love a baked potato. And obviously mashed potatoes are the perfect fit.

Beth [01:02:16] Yes, I love mashed potatoes. I like them with the skin left on the potato when you mash them. And I want them very garlicky. That's my favorite kind of mashed potato. I really love potatoes Anna. I like a Hasselback potato, like anything where you're getting a little bit of crunch and some softness. That's the sweet spot to me with potatoes.

Sarah [01:02:35] You know what makes potatoes and tomatoes special is that you can eat them for breakfast.

Beth [01:02:40] Yes. Although I do eat sweet potatoes for breakfast a lot.

Sarah [01:02:41] I do too, yeah. That's why I put sweet potatoes almost with potatoes. I do love a French breakfast salad. My husband and I have really come around to this. We've really started to include the breakfast salad in our sort of routine. The key is to toss it though. That's why salads in the United States are not as good in salads in Europe is because they toss them for you. And that is just a much better way to eat a salad I think.

Beth [01:03:06] So important question then, what is your favorite salad base? Like what kind of lettuce or cabbage are you wanting your salads to have?

Sarah [01:03:14] I think the best lettuce is butter lettuce. I just think it's so good. But what I really liked to eat the most is probably those like, that sounds so lame, but I really those like bag salads that are like shredded cabbage or I really the ones that are like shredded Brussels sprouts. Like I like a hearty salad. Almost like a slaw, but not quite.

Beth [01:03:40] Some cabbage, some Brussels sprouts, some kale, because it's really, really crunchy and it lasts a long time.

Sarah [01:03:46] Yeah, that's true too.

Beth [01:03:46] I've got a big bag of spinach right now and I feel like I am just hustling to get through that spinach before it goes bad. And I don't feel that way when I have the big cabbage Brussels sprout kale kind of bag.

Sarah [01:03:57] Now, spinach is the one I've included for breakfast. You can cook up a little bit of that spinach with an egg and it's delicious.

Beth [01:04:02] Spinach is great to cook up in lots of things. Fortunately, there are lots of different ways to like get it in, just sneak it in there in lots of meals. That's why I have it.

Sarah [01:04:10] And again, just the people out there who don't eat vegetables blow my mind. The amount of food you're just removing. You eat three times a day. You're removing an entire universe of food. It's wild to me. Totally wild.

Beth [01:04:29] Well, I'm very excited to hear everyone's vegetable takes. We got so many fruits takes. So bring on the vegetables, especially preparation.

Sarah [01:04:36] It feels like there's more vegetables than fruit. Is that true? Could somebody look that up for me? I want to know. Also, Dylan, over the course of this conversation, has looked it up, and that is the Michael Jackson lyric. It's not like he's saying, and it's in, got to be starting something. I thought it was a mishear, whatever that special word is when you mishear lyrics. No, that's what he's actually saying. You're a vegetable. Crazy.

Beth [01:05:01] The more you know.

Sarah [01:05:02] The more you now.

Beth [01:05:03] Thank you all so much for being here today. We'll be back with you on Friday. Until then, if you are shopping for someone who has been special in your life this time of year, check out our Mother's Day gift guide, suitable for other occasions as well. They're just people whose birthdays are coming up or people you want to congratulate, teacher appreciation, et cetera. Hopefully, our gift guide will be helpful to you. And until Friday, have the best week available to you.