I’m really late to the party so this probably won’t be read, but… I put off listening to this episode for a long time. I was afraid of what it might say. And I was wrong to worry and to avoid this episode. I learned some important things, and I’m having a hard time remembering what I was expecting to hear. But thank you for this episode, and I’m sorry it took me so long to hear it.
It's taken us a long time to wade through our conversations about Israel, Gaza, and the suffering, injustice, and irreparable loss that has happened there. I get why you would be hesitant. And, I'm glad that when you were ready, there was something useful here for you. -m
Last week, I had the honor of participating in a small Congregational Leaders Workshop at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. This was an extremely meaningful week for me. And one of the things that molded me the most was being in conversation and community like that with rabbis and other Jewish leaders who hold really different stances than me on Israel. While I still disagree with some of the things that I heard, I am delighted and grateful that I formed at least one friendship there with a rabbi who said things I deeply disagreed with… and we both heard each other, trusting and understanding that we were both people of care and integrity, and… I think we were both shaped accordingly by that listening. I think even before last week I would have appreciated this PP conversation. But I just wanted to share that I’m trying to hear and connect deeply with people who disagree with me about this stuff… and, like I said in that workshop, I think connecting across those differences of opinion and perspective is how we’re going to find a humanizing, dignifying path forward, whatever creative and beautiful solution I hope that ends up being.
Out here in the PNW, I’ve literally never heard of dropping your middle name when you get married and using your maiden name instead.
We are a blended family, with my husband bringing two daughters to our marriage. When we had our daughter together the name we settled on is Elizabeth Louise, which are the two older girls’ middle names. The extra bonus is that my husband’s grandmother was Elizabeth and mine was Bet. Our little one goes by Betty.
My middle name (Louise) is a family name. It was often shortened to Lou and used with my first name. When I got married, I kept my middle name and maiden name, so now I have 4 names, legally.
I had never heard of nor considered dropping my middle name to be replaced by my maiden name. Even so, I would not have done it because my middle name is my mother's name. If I had wanted to retain my maiden name, I would have just added my new last name to the end. Which I did do with my first ill-fated marriage. But with my second, current, and last marriage, I did not do keep my maiden name. I don't recall exactly why, but perhaps because both last names are long.
Also, I had a similar experience naming our children. Because all our children would carry the last name of my husband's family, it was decided that I would chose the middle name of our first boy and girl. We had to both agree on the first name. Since we have two boys, he chose the middle name for the second one. Although we both had veto power if either one of us absolutely hated the others choice.
Outside of politics: I am getting married this year, and figuring out what to do with last names has been a struggle. I am published under my name, and I do not want to change it. I am leaning towards keeping my last name, but our children will have his last name. It is even fine socially if people use his last name for me, but keeping my professional identity is very important to me.
I was given Lori Ann Hurlbut at birth. With the simple first and middle names, I was never given a nickname and wanted one. I was always Lori. The Ann never added on. Californian here and I don’t think middle names are used like they are in the south. My grandmothers didn’t have middle names.
Obviously I was ready to let go of that last name when I married young at 19. I really liked my new married name. It was short although hard for people to pronounce or spell. When I remarried I had been known by Lori Ghio for over 20 years. It was the same name as my son who was an adult by then. I thought long and hard whether to change it. My new husband was completely agreeable of me not changing my name. I ultimately decided to change it. We are a mixed race couple and people already assume we are not together. I felt having his name would just make it easier to communicate we are a couple.. I ended up with a longer last name that is more common so I don’t have near as many misspelling to deal with.
Funny side note- as a child my grandparents subscribed to Humpty Dumpty magazine to be sent to me. This was before computers so hand written forms. My magazine came addressed to Lou Hurlburt 😩 Neither name was correct. I guess I should be happy I didn’t get the nickname Lou 🤣🤣
When my husband and I got married 35 years ago, I decided to keep my last name. We had both been married before and I changed my name. Holly cow changing my name back when we divorced was a huge hassle. Also, my father had passed away and my maiden name became a lot more important to my identity.
My current husband offered a new name “Holiday”! Although sweet and funny I kept my name.
I love the origin of the middle name in my family!
So my mom was born in 1950s Bavaria (Germany) and my Opa (grandfather) went to the Bürgermeister to register her home birth. Apparently, my Opa, a very proud Bavarian wrote her name down using the Bavarian alphabet (which looks and sounds very different from the “high German” alphabet). Perhaps it was quiet resistance in post-war Germany to identify as Bavarian over German. Well, the Bürgermeister wrote it down wrong and Gisela Antoniette (pronounced an-ton-ee-Etta) became Gisela Antoinette (the French version an-twan-et after the German-French queen). My mother was named after her mother’s favorite sister Antonie who recently died. Fast forward to my birth, and I am Vanessa Antonie. Fast forward again to my daughter and she now has the correct “Little Antonia” spelling and pronounciation of Aravis Antoniette. We also have Aunt Antoine’s alligator purse that is passed down at one’s wedding.
To throw more fun into the namings of our family, my husband comes from a LONG line of firstborn Richard “Mother’s Maiden Name” Flora. Like, there were 8 until my husband was born who is neither Richard, nor maiden middle name. My MIL broke it and it shocked everyone! With my middle son, we brought back Richard, but only as a middle name because I don’t care for it, but felt that we needed to ward off any family curses!
Most importantly, the right way to spell Lynne IS absolutely with an E at the end. I'll not be taking questions on this. ;)
I also wanted to comment about the name changing portion of the show. I'm 55 years old and grew up in a VERY egalitarian home only experiencing equality between my parents. Going into marriage this was, and still is, my expectation. That said, I knew no one who didn't change their name when marrying. It wasn't a matter of deciding to do it or not, it literally wasn't even in my mind or anyone's mind in 1992. I love my first name (Amy) and my middle name (LYNNE WITH AN E!!) and my married last name is a good one (Boone). I am fine with my name how it is. I also absolutely understand those who don't change their name especially if they're very professionally established. I also love the idea of using both maiden name and married name. And I will 100% NOT even respond if someone refers to me as Mrs. Grant Boone. Hell, no. I have a name and will not be erased. I have BIG feelings about this! HA!
Finally, great conversation with Rosenberg. My husband has a lot of Jewish colleagues and we've talked SO many times about how the hatred of Jews is SO baffling. He provided some good historical info that was new to me. Thanks!
I didn't know my father or anyone in his family until I was in my 50s, so my last name had no real connection to me. I think my mom got married mainly to give me a last name, but not knowing anyone else with that name it really didn't mean anything. If I aligned with any last name it was with my grandmother's maiden name because there are strong family connections back to Nova Scotia there.
I am a staunch feminist. I went to a women's college after all! But keeping "my" name that I had no connection to just wasn't important, although I did miss the alliteration (my first and last name begin with the same letter). Even my husband liked the sound of it. But here's what I did:
- On my license, it's my first name, my maiden name, my husband's last name that we now share. I somehow anticipated all the hooha about traveling and names etc. and wanted it clear if some record somewhere still had my maiden name. With all the talk about voting and names I'm glad I made that choice. (I live in a red Southern state so this could become important!)
- I still use my middle name (Marie) on lots of things. First name, middle name, shared last name. Lots of women in my family have Marie as a middle name (very Catholic that way) and I love the sound of my full name: Deirdre Marie.
- I kept my initials! When I have to initial something it's always DMD. It makes no sense, but no one has ever questioned it. I love the symmetry of my initials and they are a part of me.
Although my full maiden name had alliteration and sounded good together, honestly so does my full married name (minus the alliteration).
Oh, and I also need to share that I met a guy once with a somewhat similar story as mine about his dad. He had no connection to his father, so when he got married, he took his wife's last name!
I went through the EXACT same emotional journey as Sarah when I got married in 2022 and ended up with the same result (maiden name is now middle name). I like what she said about wishing she’d hyphenated her kids’ last name. I haven’t had kids yet, so that gives me something to think about!
I kept my middle name and then also gave it to my daughters as it is the middle name all the women on moms side of the family have. I had no problem dropping my last name. I have a brother and lots of male cousins with the same name.
I am also of the catholic tradition of having a confirmation name so long names are normal to me. I also teach at a school with lots of students who have traditionally Hispanic 2 last names that are not hyphenated
All of my friends who are doctors are also women and it brings me great joy to address Holiday cards as Dr. and Mr, or Dr. and Family. I know how hard those degrees were and love to honor them.
1. I live in SC, originally from NC and my family is from GA - maiden to middle is for sure very southern. I was laughing listening because even though they are both from KY Sarah is apparently more southern than Beth.
2. When my mom was born (in GA), her parents didn’t give her a middle name at all - my grandfather said she’d just drop it when she got married anyway.
3. My mom is low key resentful that she gave up her easy to pronounce maiden name for my dad’s harder to pronounce one. I have my dad’s name and even though I married someone with an easier to pronounce last name I didn’t change mine to his.
4. I knew a woman who was Wanda (something) Jones and married another Jones to become Wanda Jones Jones.
5. I didn’t change my name, because I had been working for 5 years and had some tiny bit of a reputation and a patent, plus I knew how much of a hassle it is. Not matching my kids is definitely the most annoying part.
6. I have a cookbook from a Junior League in Georgia in the 70s. All the recipes are by women, and all but 1 is listed as “Mrs. John Smith (Elizabeth).” Even Rosalynn Carter has a recipe in there and it’s “Mrs. Jimmy Carter (Rosalynn).”
Also the HC is for my last name and my husband’s. Even though I didn’t actually take his name legally I added it to mine on facebook and answer to both. My mom says I “”use his name socially.”
I kept my middle name because it’s my mom’s maiden name. It’s great but also sucks because it is not a safe bank safe password for me
I have the same middle name as my brothers and I hate it. I don’t feel unique and I wish I was the only one. Also, my brothers are twins and one SSN off and their stuff gets messed up allllll the time. So I’m team unique names for first and middle
When I was dating the (self-described very liberal) guy I thought I wanted to marry, name changes came up. He said he had no expectations at all that I would take his name. I asked him about taking mine. He gasped/laughed. Like it was so absurd and he couldn't fathom changing his name.
When I got engaged to my now husband we talked about names. It took a couple of minutes to land on both of us hyphenating so we have the same last name - mine comes first because it just sounded better that way. We know our kids might have to drop them at some point. That'll be their call with their partner, if they end up getting married. Also I married the right guy. ;)
My middle name is a family name on my mom’s side (my daughter is now the 4th generation to have it) and my maiden name was hard to spell & pronounce. So I kept the middle and ditched the maiden name. It is a little sad, though—my paternal grandparents had 11 granddaughters and 1 grandson, so the maiden name we all shared is now only used by the grandson and the one unmarried granddaughter.
I’m really late to the party so this probably won’t be read, but… I put off listening to this episode for a long time. I was afraid of what it might say. And I was wrong to worry and to avoid this episode. I learned some important things, and I’m having a hard time remembering what I was expecting to hear. But thank you for this episode, and I’m sorry it took me so long to hear it.
It's taken us a long time to wade through our conversations about Israel, Gaza, and the suffering, injustice, and irreparable loss that has happened there. I get why you would be hesitant. And, I'm glad that when you were ready, there was something useful here for you. -m
Last week, I had the honor of participating in a small Congregational Leaders Workshop at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. This was an extremely meaningful week for me. And one of the things that molded me the most was being in conversation and community like that with rabbis and other Jewish leaders who hold really different stances than me on Israel. While I still disagree with some of the things that I heard, I am delighted and grateful that I formed at least one friendship there with a rabbi who said things I deeply disagreed with… and we both heard each other, trusting and understanding that we were both people of care and integrity, and… I think we were both shaped accordingly by that listening. I think even before last week I would have appreciated this PP conversation. But I just wanted to share that I’m trying to hear and connect deeply with people who disagree with me about this stuff… and, like I said in that workshop, I think connecting across those differences of opinion and perspective is how we’re going to find a humanizing, dignifying path forward, whatever creative and beautiful solution I hope that ends up being.
Out here in the PNW, I’ve literally never heard of dropping your middle name when you get married and using your maiden name instead.
We are a blended family, with my husband bringing two daughters to our marriage. When we had our daughter together the name we settled on is Elizabeth Louise, which are the two older girls’ middle names. The extra bonus is that my husband’s grandmother was Elizabeth and mine was Bet. Our little one goes by Betty.
My middle name (Louise) is a family name. It was often shortened to Lou and used with my first name. When I got married, I kept my middle name and maiden name, so now I have 4 names, legally.
I had never heard of nor considered dropping my middle name to be replaced by my maiden name. Even so, I would not have done it because my middle name is my mother's name. If I had wanted to retain my maiden name, I would have just added my new last name to the end. Which I did do with my first ill-fated marriage. But with my second, current, and last marriage, I did not do keep my maiden name. I don't recall exactly why, but perhaps because both last names are long.
Also, I had a similar experience naming our children. Because all our children would carry the last name of my husband's family, it was decided that I would chose the middle name of our first boy and girl. We had to both agree on the first name. Since we have two boys, he chose the middle name for the second one. Although we both had veto power if either one of us absolutely hated the others choice.
Outside of politics: I am getting married this year, and figuring out what to do with last names has been a struggle. I am published under my name, and I do not want to change it. I am leaning towards keeping my last name, but our children will have his last name. It is even fine socially if people use his last name for me, but keeping my professional identity is very important to me.
I was given Lori Ann Hurlbut at birth. With the simple first and middle names, I was never given a nickname and wanted one. I was always Lori. The Ann never added on. Californian here and I don’t think middle names are used like they are in the south. My grandmothers didn’t have middle names.
Obviously I was ready to let go of that last name when I married young at 19. I really liked my new married name. It was short although hard for people to pronounce or spell. When I remarried I had been known by Lori Ghio for over 20 years. It was the same name as my son who was an adult by then. I thought long and hard whether to change it. My new husband was completely agreeable of me not changing my name. I ultimately decided to change it. We are a mixed race couple and people already assume we are not together. I felt having his name would just make it easier to communicate we are a couple.. I ended up with a longer last name that is more common so I don’t have near as many misspelling to deal with.
Funny side note- as a child my grandparents subscribed to Humpty Dumpty magazine to be sent to me. This was before computers so hand written forms. My magazine came addressed to Lou Hurlburt 😩 Neither name was correct. I guess I should be happy I didn’t get the nickname Lou 🤣🤣
When my husband and I got married 35 years ago, I decided to keep my last name. We had both been married before and I changed my name. Holly cow changing my name back when we divorced was a huge hassle. Also, my father had passed away and my maiden name became a lot more important to my identity.
My current husband offered a new name “Holiday”! Although sweet and funny I kept my name.
I love the origin of the middle name in my family!
So my mom was born in 1950s Bavaria (Germany) and my Opa (grandfather) went to the Bürgermeister to register her home birth. Apparently, my Opa, a very proud Bavarian wrote her name down using the Bavarian alphabet (which looks and sounds very different from the “high German” alphabet). Perhaps it was quiet resistance in post-war Germany to identify as Bavarian over German. Well, the Bürgermeister wrote it down wrong and Gisela Antoniette (pronounced an-ton-ee-Etta) became Gisela Antoinette (the French version an-twan-et after the German-French queen). My mother was named after her mother’s favorite sister Antonie who recently died. Fast forward to my birth, and I am Vanessa Antonie. Fast forward again to my daughter and she now has the correct “Little Antonia” spelling and pronounciation of Aravis Antoniette. We also have Aunt Antoine’s alligator purse that is passed down at one’s wedding.
To throw more fun into the namings of our family, my husband comes from a LONG line of firstborn Richard “Mother’s Maiden Name” Flora. Like, there were 8 until my husband was born who is neither Richard, nor maiden middle name. My MIL broke it and it shocked everyone! With my middle son, we brought back Richard, but only as a middle name because I don’t care for it, but felt that we needed to ward off any family curses!
Yeah for generational nods to names!
Most importantly, the right way to spell Lynne IS absolutely with an E at the end. I'll not be taking questions on this. ;)
I also wanted to comment about the name changing portion of the show. I'm 55 years old and grew up in a VERY egalitarian home only experiencing equality between my parents. Going into marriage this was, and still is, my expectation. That said, I knew no one who didn't change their name when marrying. It wasn't a matter of deciding to do it or not, it literally wasn't even in my mind or anyone's mind in 1992. I love my first name (Amy) and my middle name (LYNNE WITH AN E!!) and my married last name is a good one (Boone). I am fine with my name how it is. I also absolutely understand those who don't change their name especially if they're very professionally established. I also love the idea of using both maiden name and married name. And I will 100% NOT even respond if someone refers to me as Mrs. Grant Boone. Hell, no. I have a name and will not be erased. I have BIG feelings about this! HA!
Finally, great conversation with Rosenberg. My husband has a lot of Jewish colleagues and we've talked SO many times about how the hatred of Jews is SO baffling. He provided some good historical info that was new to me. Thanks!
I didn't know my father or anyone in his family until I was in my 50s, so my last name had no real connection to me. I think my mom got married mainly to give me a last name, but not knowing anyone else with that name it really didn't mean anything. If I aligned with any last name it was with my grandmother's maiden name because there are strong family connections back to Nova Scotia there.
I am a staunch feminist. I went to a women's college after all! But keeping "my" name that I had no connection to just wasn't important, although I did miss the alliteration (my first and last name begin with the same letter). Even my husband liked the sound of it. But here's what I did:
- On my license, it's my first name, my maiden name, my husband's last name that we now share. I somehow anticipated all the hooha about traveling and names etc. and wanted it clear if some record somewhere still had my maiden name. With all the talk about voting and names I'm glad I made that choice. (I live in a red Southern state so this could become important!)
- I still use my middle name (Marie) on lots of things. First name, middle name, shared last name. Lots of women in my family have Marie as a middle name (very Catholic that way) and I love the sound of my full name: Deirdre Marie.
- I kept my initials! When I have to initial something it's always DMD. It makes no sense, but no one has ever questioned it. I love the symmetry of my initials and they are a part of me.
Although my full maiden name had alliteration and sounded good together, honestly so does my full married name (minus the alliteration).
Oh, and I also need to share that I met a guy once with a somewhat similar story as mine about his dad. He had no connection to his father, so when he got married, he took his wife's last name!
I went through the EXACT same emotional journey as Sarah when I got married in 2022 and ended up with the same result (maiden name is now middle name). I like what she said about wishing she’d hyphenated her kids’ last name. I haven’t had kids yet, so that gives me something to think about!
I kept my middle name and then also gave it to my daughters as it is the middle name all the women on moms side of the family have. I had no problem dropping my last name. I have a brother and lots of male cousins with the same name.
I am also of the catholic tradition of having a confirmation name so long names are normal to me. I also teach at a school with lots of students who have traditionally Hispanic 2 last names that are not hyphenated
All of my friends who are doctors are also women and it brings me great joy to address Holiday cards as Dr. and Mr, or Dr. and Family. I know how hard those degrees were and love to honor them.
1. I live in SC, originally from NC and my family is from GA - maiden to middle is for sure very southern. I was laughing listening because even though they are both from KY Sarah is apparently more southern than Beth.
2. When my mom was born (in GA), her parents didn’t give her a middle name at all - my grandfather said she’d just drop it when she got married anyway.
3. My mom is low key resentful that she gave up her easy to pronounce maiden name for my dad’s harder to pronounce one. I have my dad’s name and even though I married someone with an easier to pronounce last name I didn’t change mine to his.
4. I knew a woman who was Wanda (something) Jones and married another Jones to become Wanda Jones Jones.
5. I didn’t change my name, because I had been working for 5 years and had some tiny bit of a reputation and a patent, plus I knew how much of a hassle it is. Not matching my kids is definitely the most annoying part.
6. I have a cookbook from a Junior League in Georgia in the 70s. All the recipes are by women, and all but 1 is listed as “Mrs. John Smith (Elizabeth).” Even Rosalynn Carter has a recipe in there and it’s “Mrs. Jimmy Carter (Rosalynn).”
I know someone whose first name is the same as her husband’s last name and she took it! So she is now Collier Collier. Wild.
Also the HC is for my last name and my husband’s. Even though I didn’t actually take his name legally I added it to mine on facebook and answer to both. My mom says I “”use his name socially.”
I kept my middle name because it’s my mom’s maiden name. It’s great but also sucks because it is not a safe bank safe password for me
I have the same middle name as my brothers and I hate it. I don’t feel unique and I wish I was the only one. Also, my brothers are twins and one SSN off and their stuff gets messed up allllll the time. So I’m team unique names for first and middle
When I was dating the (self-described very liberal) guy I thought I wanted to marry, name changes came up. He said he had no expectations at all that I would take his name. I asked him about taking mine. He gasped/laughed. Like it was so absurd and he couldn't fathom changing his name.
When I got engaged to my now husband we talked about names. It took a couple of minutes to land on both of us hyphenating so we have the same last name - mine comes first because it just sounded better that way. We know our kids might have to drop them at some point. That'll be their call with their partner, if they end up getting married. Also I married the right guy. ;)
My middle name is a family name on my mom’s side (my daughter is now the 4th generation to have it) and my maiden name was hard to spell & pronounce. So I kept the middle and ditched the maiden name. It is a little sad, though—my paternal grandparents had 11 granddaughters and 1 grandson, so the maiden name we all shared is now only used by the grandson and the one unmarried granddaughter.