The Lyn/Lynn part reminded me of a teacher I had in high school whose legal first name was Tori (not Victoria) and she used to say her parents had to pay by the letter on her birth certificate 😂
This is very relevant to me right now. My best friend and I decided we wanted to be parents and I'm almost 7m along. Weve been discussing last names for a while. Since we're not in a romantic relationship but creating a family, there are no traditional rules on names we have to follow. We're currently planning on hyphenating since both our names are short. Still trying to figure out order though. I'm angling for Tabaj-Green because of syllables and I think if Green is first no one will ever try to say Tabaj (which rhymes with rabbi) and just fade away after Green. If it's first at least I'll get a mumble 😂
I realize the chances of the baby eventually dropping one are high because hypenating really only works for the first generation but it works for us now.
And add my vote to not knowing about women dropping their middle name. Id never heard of it until I was talking to someone from the south. I'm a great lakes girl. With recentish immigrant ancestors if that makes a difference.
As a Women's Studies minor, I still dropped my maiden name and kept my middle name because I think it's pretty. (Ashley Elizabeth) Also, I never much loved my maiden name, and I like my married name because it seems fancy. I am a fancy lady at heart.
Also, my mom's brothers and sisters all lament their "basic" first names because they all have flowery middle names - Jane Allison, Herbert Fletcher, Charles Collin, etc. My mom was the only one who got a fancy first name - Courtney Patricia.
The outside of politics was especially fun for me because my husband and I are expecting our first (a girl!). He has come up with all of the possible names, which is special for me because my dad also named me. We are currently leaning towards Winona Monroe, with Winnie as a nickname.
Also, on the Christmas cards, I always take a picture of the envelopes from households I’m unsure about addressing. And then use whatever name they included on their envelope for the next year! I keep all of my addresses on Shutterfly (and pay for printed addresses) which makes it easy to update.
I am a teacher who had heard her last name about 50,000 times a day for 6 years before getting married, so I didn't want to change it. I considered making my maiden name, my middle name, but that would have required a trip to court, whereas a last name update was just paperwork. Too much for me, so I opted out.
Now I am widowed with two children who do not share my last name, as they have their fathers. We get all manner of holiday card addresses and I adore holiday cards so I love them all. There is minimal friction with communication with my children's teachers, because I know the default is that my kids and I share the same name and so I know if they call me Mrs Elsdoerfer, they mean it respectfully.
I do however carry a bright pink folder containing birth, marriage and death certificates when the kid and I travel. Haven't needed it yet, but just in case.
This triggered the most fun you can have with hospital birth paperwork memory- I was Miranda Ann Brown and dropped the Ann for Miranda Brown Smith. I don’t regret it but it gets second LL
ooks sometimes. It did cause the birth certificate people at the hospital when my second was born to redo paperwork. I filled all of it out and they brought it back to me and the way Kansas paperwork is set up it’s not expecting you to change your middle name like I did. So she comes back and ask “was your name really Miranda Brown Brown?” My husband and I still chuckle about that 😂.
I would like Sarah to know that I also have the same middle name - Lyn. Why my mother wanted one n is also a mystery to me. I get asked, are you sure it’s not spelled Lynn? Lol!
Thanks Beth and Sarah for this episode. As always it’s a great space to keep me grounded with all (waves hands) this heartbreak and madness going on.
I loved this conversation with Yair Rosenberg. I listened twice and I might listen again. I perused the links in the show notes and didn't find an answer to my question, which is how many of those polled know a Jewish person. I almost always have this question when I read these kinds of polls because, you know, it's easier to have the wrong idea about someone you don't know. Like any group, Jewish people are not a monolith, but they act as a placeholder for things they have nothing to do with. On one side are those who blame them for every ill and make them the protagonist in a range of conspiracy theories. On the other, are those who infantilize them because they believe Jews have to be protected at all costs for their own purposes. Both are harmful, but only the former is talked about as anti-Semitic.
My kids don't believe me that Jews are only 2.5% of the population. We can walk to 7 synagogues from our house. This makes me realize that there are probably lots of communities in the US where there are almost no Jews.
Maybe I'll @ the pollster on twitter. I was looking for his original research, but I guess because of the think tank of it all, it's not publicly released unless you gave them all your personal info. Here (I think) https://data.blueroseresearch.org/2024retro-download -Maggie
As a person who once asked Sarah what her middle name was and received the biggest eye roll in the history of eye rolls followed by "Are you kidding me?" ... the only person I knew before Sarah who dropped their middle name and took their maiden name instead was my grandmother. And it wasn't apparent she did that until she died! Here's the kicker: she went by the middle name. The one she dropped. The one that wasn't on any of her official paperwork that had to be gathered up after she died. I swear. (I'm not mad, it was just confusing.)
So anyway, I actually don't think it's that common to replace a given middle name with a birth last name. (I hate "maiden name" and usually say "birth name.") It used to bug me that most people could either pronounce my last name OR spell it, but not both, and now I consider it a kind of shibboleth. (like Beth Ann, I suppose)
I didn’t consider not changing my name when I got married, but as I’ve evolved, I have an inkling of regret that I didn’t hyphenate or do something with my maiden name.
For our only kiddo, his middle name is my maiden name (Peterson), and I am very proud of how well it fits (and feel like I kept my maiden name in some ways with it).
(This is also how I got my middle name - it’s my maternal grandma’s maiden name. My MIL has the same middle name, but different spelling, which is forever causing my husband spelling confusion between the two.)
However, the Midwest is not as proud of middle names as other parts of the country so I feel like other people don’t get to appreciate our middle names as much.
Really appreciated Yair’s very clear explanation of the assumptions and contradictions of prejudice. “Look for the contradictions” is a great mantra to help navigate our current news cycle and media landscape.
Sarah is going to be appalled at my name story. 😆 When I was born, my parents gave me two middle names, Marie and my mom's maiden name. I always hated it growing up because everyone I knew had just one middle name. When I got married, I simplified and just kept my regular middle name and took my husband's last name. Got rid of my maiden name and my mom's maiden name. 🫣
I also loved Beth's description of some people getting the privilege of being Beth Ann people. I go by a mix of Katrina and Kat, and there are definitely people that it's weird if they call me Kat. And on the other hand, my husband has called me Kat from the beginning, and if he calls me Katrina it weirds me out!
After today's episode my podcast queue popped up the History Chicks episode on Elizabeth Cady Stanton. I think it was her, I think she started it. She refused to be Mrs. Henry Stanton so she made her maiden name her middle name. In 1840.
My middle name is Elizabeth, and my maiden name is Wilder. I wish so much that I had dropped Elizabeth and changed to Abigail Wilder Boatwright. At the time I got married, i did actually use that as my byline because I was a baby journalist and wanted my byline to be continuous. When I became a freelancer about a year later I dropped Wilder. My son’s name is Wilder and I love that. I am now estranged from my brothers, (but not my family) and I want to reclaim ownership over being a Wilder. I am my dad’s guardian, and every time I see a legal document where my name doesn’t have Wilder on it, I’m a little sad. I don’t care about Elizabeth as a middle name at all, no attachment!
But the hoops of changing my name on EVERYTHING including all these legal documents is daunting.
No, love our house! I've thought about down the road when my dad passes away and everything is getting shaken up. But that could be (hopefully) a long time from now.
The Lyn/Lynn part reminded me of a teacher I had in high school whose legal first name was Tori (not Victoria) and she used to say her parents had to pay by the letter on her birth certificate 😂
This is very relevant to me right now. My best friend and I decided we wanted to be parents and I'm almost 7m along. Weve been discussing last names for a while. Since we're not in a romantic relationship but creating a family, there are no traditional rules on names we have to follow. We're currently planning on hyphenating since both our names are short. Still trying to figure out order though. I'm angling for Tabaj-Green because of syllables and I think if Green is first no one will ever try to say Tabaj (which rhymes with rabbi) and just fade away after Green. If it's first at least I'll get a mumble 😂
I realize the chances of the baby eventually dropping one are high because hypenating really only works for the first generation but it works for us now.
And add my vote to not knowing about women dropping their middle name. Id never heard of it until I was talking to someone from the south. I'm a great lakes girl. With recentish immigrant ancestors if that makes a difference.
As a Women's Studies minor, I still dropped my maiden name and kept my middle name because I think it's pretty. (Ashley Elizabeth) Also, I never much loved my maiden name, and I like my married name because it seems fancy. I am a fancy lady at heart.
Also, my mom's brothers and sisters all lament their "basic" first names because they all have flowery middle names - Jane Allison, Herbert Fletcher, Charles Collin, etc. My mom was the only one who got a fancy first name - Courtney Patricia.
My middle name is Lyn (one n) and so is my mother’s. I had no idea this was weird until I went to college!
The outside of politics was especially fun for me because my husband and I are expecting our first (a girl!). He has come up with all of the possible names, which is special for me because my dad also named me. We are currently leaning towards Winona Monroe, with Winnie as a nickname.
Also, on the Christmas cards, I always take a picture of the envelopes from households I’m unsure about addressing. And then use whatever name they included on their envelope for the next year! I keep all of my addresses on Shutterfly (and pay for printed addresses) which makes it easy to update.
I am a teacher who had heard her last name about 50,000 times a day for 6 years before getting married, so I didn't want to change it. I considered making my maiden name, my middle name, but that would have required a trip to court, whereas a last name update was just paperwork. Too much for me, so I opted out.
Now I am widowed with two children who do not share my last name, as they have their fathers. We get all manner of holiday card addresses and I adore holiday cards so I love them all. There is minimal friction with communication with my children's teachers, because I know the default is that my kids and I share the same name and so I know if they call me Mrs Elsdoerfer, they mean it respectfully.
I do however carry a bright pink folder containing birth, marriage and death certificates when the kid and I travel. Haven't needed it yet, but just in case.
This triggered the most fun you can have with hospital birth paperwork memory- I was Miranda Ann Brown and dropped the Ann for Miranda Brown Smith. I don’t regret it but it gets second LL
ooks sometimes. It did cause the birth certificate people at the hospital when my second was born to redo paperwork. I filled all of it out and they brought it back to me and the way Kansas paperwork is set up it’s not expecting you to change your middle name like I did. So she comes back and ask “was your name really Miranda Brown Brown?” My husband and I still chuckle about that 😂.
This is HILARIOUS!
I would like Sarah to know that I also have the same middle name - Lyn. Why my mother wanted one n is also a mystery to me. I get asked, are you sure it’s not spelled Lynn? Lol!
Thanks Beth and Sarah for this episode. As always it’s a great space to keep me grounded with all (waves hands) this heartbreak and madness going on.
I love/hate that people ask: "Are you sure?" Instead of "do I have it right?" PEOPLE!
I loved this conversation with Yair Rosenberg. I listened twice and I might listen again. I perused the links in the show notes and didn't find an answer to my question, which is how many of those polled know a Jewish person. I almost always have this question when I read these kinds of polls because, you know, it's easier to have the wrong idea about someone you don't know. Like any group, Jewish people are not a monolith, but they act as a placeholder for things they have nothing to do with. On one side are those who blame them for every ill and make them the protagonist in a range of conspiracy theories. On the other, are those who infantilize them because they believe Jews have to be protected at all costs for their own purposes. Both are harmful, but only the former is talked about as anti-Semitic.
My kids don't believe me that Jews are only 2.5% of the population. We can walk to 7 synagogues from our house. This makes me realize that there are probably lots of communities in the US where there are almost no Jews.
Maybe I'll @ the pollster on twitter. I was looking for his original research, but I guess because of the think tank of it all, it's not publicly released unless you gave them all your personal info. Here (I think) https://data.blueroseresearch.org/2024retro-download -Maggie
As a person who once asked Sarah what her middle name was and received the biggest eye roll in the history of eye rolls followed by "Are you kidding me?" ... the only person I knew before Sarah who dropped their middle name and took their maiden name instead was my grandmother. And it wasn't apparent she did that until she died! Here's the kicker: she went by the middle name. The one she dropped. The one that wasn't on any of her official paperwork that had to be gathered up after she died. I swear. (I'm not mad, it was just confusing.)
So anyway, I actually don't think it's that common to replace a given middle name with a birth last name. (I hate "maiden name" and usually say "birth name.") It used to bug me that most people could either pronounce my last name OR spell it, but not both, and now I consider it a kind of shibboleth. (like Beth Ann, I suppose)
I didn’t consider not changing my name when I got married, but as I’ve evolved, I have an inkling of regret that I didn’t hyphenate or do something with my maiden name.
For our only kiddo, his middle name is my maiden name (Peterson), and I am very proud of how well it fits (and feel like I kept my maiden name in some ways with it).
(This is also how I got my middle name - it’s my maternal grandma’s maiden name. My MIL has the same middle name, but different spelling, which is forever causing my husband spelling confusion between the two.)
However, the Midwest is not as proud of middle names as other parts of the country so I feel like other people don’t get to appreciate our middle names as much.
Really appreciated Yair’s very clear explanation of the assumptions and contradictions of prejudice. “Look for the contradictions” is a great mantra to help navigate our current news cycle and media landscape.
He had so many clear and concise phrases that I want to hang onto. -m
Sarah is going to be appalled at my name story. 😆 When I was born, my parents gave me two middle names, Marie and my mom's maiden name. I always hated it growing up because everyone I knew had just one middle name. When I got married, I simplified and just kept my regular middle name and took my husband's last name. Got rid of my maiden name and my mom's maiden name. 🫣
I also loved Beth's description of some people getting the privilege of being Beth Ann people. I go by a mix of Katrina and Kat, and there are definitely people that it's weird if they call me Kat. And on the other hand, my husband has called me Kat from the beginning, and if he calls me Katrina it weirds me out!
Lord the middle name trends of the 80s. My sisters and I are Lynn, Marie, and Anne.
Did Elizabeth come later???
My sister and I are also Marie and Anne.
After today's episode my podcast queue popped up the History Chicks episode on Elizabeth Cady Stanton. I think it was her, I think she started it. She refused to be Mrs. Henry Stanton so she made her maiden name her middle name. In 1840.
My middle name is Elizabeth, and my maiden name is Wilder. I wish so much that I had dropped Elizabeth and changed to Abigail Wilder Boatwright. At the time I got married, i did actually use that as my byline because I was a baby journalist and wanted my byline to be continuous. When I became a freelancer about a year later I dropped Wilder. My son’s name is Wilder and I love that. I am now estranged from my brothers, (but not my family) and I want to reclaim ownership over being a Wilder. I am my dad’s guardian, and every time I see a legal document where my name doesn’t have Wilder on it, I’m a little sad. I don’t care about Elizabeth as a middle name at all, no attachment!
But the hoops of changing my name on EVERYTHING including all these legal documents is daunting.
REGRETS. Any advice??
Do you have a big move coming up where you'd have to change everything anyway? Maybe take the plunge then??
No, love our house! I've thought about down the road when my dad passes away and everything is getting shaken up. But that could be (hopefully) a long time from now.