Authenticity vs. Accountability

Graham Platner keesp surviving scandals. Is that progress or a bad omen?

I've resisted conversations about primaries this year. Horse races are tempting. They also pull me away from political analysis into political hobbyism. It's easier and more fun to talk about personalities and campaigns than...a lot of what headline news hands us right now. But I don't think it gets us anywhere. My husband doesn't love politics the way I do, so he gets this on a deep level. It drives him crazy to receive an email or text about a race he can't vote in. I think he's wise to know when something isn't our business.

We're spending an entire episode on Graham Platner today, so I guess I've got some explaining to do!

I'm less interested in Platner and his race specifically, and more interested in Platner and his race as an artifact of this political era. Sarah and I discuss what it means to be "normal," what the progressive vs. moderate tension names and what it misses, and what we really need from candidates in terms of their policies, biographies, and communication styles at specific moments in time.

We take a hard turn outside of politics to talk about personal style and to share changes to the business side of Pantsuit Politics. As you'll hear in the episode, it's a new season for us. We go into every season confident about our support systems because of how kind and thoughtful you all are. Thank you, endlessly. -Beth

Topics Discussed

• Graham Platner and the Maine Senate race

• Political scandals and changing voter tolerance

• "Normie" politicians and the unapologetic posture in American life

• Progressive vs. moderate framing in the Democratic Party

• What we actually need from candidates: policy, biography, communication style

• Emotional maturity as a political standard

• Partisan identity and double standards

• Bronte the Stylist on Instagram

• Team changes at Pantsuit Politics

Want more Pantsuit Politics? Subscribe to ensure you never miss an episode and get access to our premium shows and community.

Episode Resources

The Sexting (WSJ)

The Tattoos (AP News)

The Senate Race (UNH)

Rep. Auchincloss’s position (The Hill)

Sen. Kim’s comment (CNN)

“Somebody Will” (Shucked)

Bronte the Stylist (IG)

Sarah’s outfit app (Cladwell)

Episode Transcript

[00:00:30] Sarah: This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

[00:00:32] Beth: This is Beth Silvers.

[00:00:33] Sarah: You’re listening to Pantsuit Politics. Today, we are going to talk about Graham Platner, who is running for the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat in the great state of Maine, and what his latest scandals say about Maine voters in the midterm, the Democratic Party, and all of us. Outside of politics, Beth and I have a new Instagram obsession, and we’re going to share it with all of you. Plus, we have some really big news to share with you all about changes here at Pantsuit Politics, so you’re going to want to stay put until the end.

[00:01:08] Beth: First. You may have heard over the weekend that the Freedom 250 celebration that the president is putting together has been messy.

[00:01:15] Sarah: It fell apart, Beth.

[00:01:17] Beth: Been pretty messy. Several performers said, “I didn’t realize how partisan this would be. I don’t want to be part of that.” Now, I do have questions because here at Pantsuit Politics, we were not depending on the president or Freedom 250--

[00:01:28] Sarah: Absolutely not.

[00:01:30] Beth: Or even country music legend Martina McBride to make our celebration a great one. We’ve been thinking for months about all of you, and we wanted to be sure that however you’re celebrating America 250, we have you. So I made you a murder mystery dinner party kit, one of my favorite things in the world to do. My daughter Jane did the graphic design. It is ready to go, ready to roll out for you and your people. If you have smaller children, maybe extended family members, and you want to gather around and have some fun learning some key stories about our founding, I’ve got you covered there as well. We put Reimagining Citizenship meditations into an e-book for those of you who want to meditate on your journey with citizenship in the 30 days leading up to July 4th, and we’re almost there. So if you’ve been waiting to join us as a premium member, this is the moment, because you get all of that. You’ll get our very exciting premium episodes the week of July 4th and everything we make between now and then, and you’ll know that you’re supporting our work here. So the link to join us is in the show notes, and we really hope you will.

[00:02:32] Sarah: Also, we’re all wearing our Be a Good Neighbor celebratory T-shirts. Literally hundreds of you have ordered said T-shirt. Now, there has been some confusion on the sizing because there is a unisex, a women’s, and a kids’. So if you run into any problems, the only thing you need to know is just email us, hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com, and we’ll fix it for you. No big deal.

[00:02:54] Beth: We want to be good neighbors.

[00:02:54] Sarah: That’s right. We’re going to be good neighbors. Everybody’s going to have the best shirt available to them, okay? All right, next up, Graham Platner. Beth, shall we take Mr. Platner’s scandals in chronological order?

[00:03:14] Beth: It’s tricky, but how about I start by telling you about the tattoo?

[00:03:18] Sarah: She took the tattoos and I took the sexting, guys. That’s how we divided the labor today.

[00:03:23] Beth: That’s 2026 for you. I took the tattoos and Sarah took the sexting. Okay. If you were not paying attention, Graham Platner, 41-year-old oyster farmer and veteran running for Senate in Maine. He comes out with a very splashy commercial where he looks kind of rugged and has a little bit of sexiness about him, and you can tell this is not your dad’s Democrat- is the message that was being sent. And shortly after that, we thought, yeah, not your dad’s Democrat because he does have a tattoo that is a symbol from the SS dating back to Nazi Germany. Okay? His story is that he got this tattoo on a drunken evening in Croatia while he was in the military because they all thought it looked really tough, and for 20 years he went about his life taking shirtless pictures and dancing in shirtless videos, as one does, and would not have done that if he thought he was sporting Nazi symbolism on his chest.

[00:04:27] Sarah: Did you recognize the symbol?

[00:04:29] Beth: No, I did not.

[00:04:30] Sarah: I didn’t either, and I just want to disclose that. I didn’t recognize it either.

[00:04:35] Beth: And I think this is a really tricky thing. There are so many tricky things around this. I didn’t take classes that took me deep into Nazi symbolism, and yet that symbolism is so present and hurtful to people today because World War II is not ancient history. And so I take him at his word that he was drunk and overseas and got a tattoo that he thought looked cool. Do I believe that it really was not until he was running for the United States Senate that someone said, “Hey, what’s that?” I don’t. I don’t think I believe that. But nonetheless, he had a good friend who’s a tattoo artist in rural Maine and quickly was able to have the tattoo covered. He now has a dog with a Celtic knot right there. And the Associated Press said in an unusual move for a Senate race, he did take his shirt off and show us that the tattoo, in fact, has been covered up. Now, in talking about the tattoo He did use the R word. He said that this was the most R word thing he’s ever heard, and so that kind of set off a mini controversy that was like a flight with some of his old Reddit posts. Yeah. He has a flight of controversy. He has made comments on Reddit about Black people not tipping well, rural white people being racist and stupid, women who are victims of rape needing to take some responsibility. There’s a lot there.

[00:06:10] Sarah: Real great hits.

[00:06:10] Beth: And what he has said about all of it is like, “I was in the military. It really messed me up. I have done a lot of work on myself. I am sorry for my past mistakes. I am proud of who I am today.” And that’s where we were until the sexting came up.

[00:06:28] Sarah: And he survived that first round pretty well, so well that the governor of Maine, Janet Mills, and his Maine challenger in the Democratic primary dropped out. And he is consistently polling above Susan Collins, who would be his Republican opponent once he wins the Democratic nomination, which I think we can assume he’s going to do at this point. Then this weekend, The Wall Street Journal publishes an expose. Apparently last year in August, his wife, Amy Gertner, disclosed to a campaign staffer that she found multiple message threads on his phone where he was exchanging sexually explicit text messages with I think six different women. The Journal further disclosed that they found an active account with Grand Platner on Kik, a private messaging app often used to arrange sexual encounters I had never heard of. And The New York Times did some additional reporting. It was this aide who left the campaign who disclosed this information. Now, they have both said, “We’ve worked on our marriage.” They’re pretty newly married. They’ve only been married since like I think 2023. They’ve been in therapy. They’ve worked this out. This is just people trying to take him down. And that’s where we stand as of now.

[00:07:50] Beth: Feel sad for Amy about the way this has come out because here’s this thing that’s obviously been really painful for her, and now every headline almost blames her for it being public knowledge.

[00:08:03] Sarah: Yeah, because she told the staffer.

[00:08:05] Beth: And I hate that for her.

[00:08:06] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:08:08] Beth: It’s normal to sit down with a staffer when you’re running for a national office to say, “Here’s some stuff you should know. It’s going to look bad. We should be prepared for it.” So she did the right thing by sharing that with the campaign so they could be prepared for it, and yet here we are and they seem unprepared for it.

[00:08:29] Sarah: I can’t tell if it was like, y’all should know, or if she was, like, actually trying to talk to the staffer for emotional support.

[00:08:36] Beth:  Yeah, that could be.

[00:08:38] Sarah: I haven’t been quite able to tell that because both of their reactions to the staff person disclosing this feels like maybe it’s the latter. I think there’s so much here, obviously.

[00:08:49] Beth:  There’s So much here.

[00:08:50] Sarah: I think the first thing that comes up a lot with Graham Platner, rightfully, is his politics. He has taken a very progressive stance. He’s endorsed by Bernie and Elizabeth Warren, and which is a pretty interesting contrast in relationship to Susan Collins, who has clearly survived in Maine by being very centrist. This feeds this sort of perpetual debate inside the Democratic Party. Should we be progressive or should we be moderates? And to that I say, what are we talking about? Do I think economically most Americans are closer to where Bernie Sanders has always been? I do. I think health insurance pushes everybody a little bit closer every single day. But I also think Matt Yglesias does a lot of work on this. There are lots of cultural issues or other policy issues like, for example, affirmative action where Americans need some moderation from the Democratic Party that the Democratic Party is out of step with a majority of voters on things. So I think the way this debate through any kind of manifestation, including Graham Platner, gets reduced down to we have to flip the switch on or off with regards to progressive politics is reductive and not helpful. So I think that to me that’s my political view on his very progressive stances.

[00:10:11] Beth: He feels like a throwback to Occupy Wall Street when you listen to him talk. The reason that I would not be comfortable voting for him is mostly on those policy grounds. I don’t like hearing him talk about like burning everything down in Washington, DC. I feel like that’s happening right now. He approaches that horseshoe moment for me where far left and far are so angry about everything that the anger itself becomes the political ideology and the political plan and the political strategy, and that does not appeal to me at all. I think a lot of what he talks about, though, clearly is connecting with a segment of voters in Maine, and I don’t think the Democratic Party can answer should we be this or that because this and that are so blurry on their own. And how many seats do you want to have? You’re just going to have different results state by state. Maine is so fascinating because you have Susan Collins, who is one of the more left-leaning Republicans in the caucus, and the other senator is an independent, Angus King, who caucuses with the Democrats but is an independent and has taken some votes that differ from the rest of the party. And so does that independent spirit then leapfrog all the way to where Grand Platner is on issues? Maybe. I don’t know. That’s for the people of Maine to decide. What interests me most about Grand Platner is less him as a human being and more what he represents about insider-outsider status, what we think about authenticity and truth, and how normal can you be and ascend to this kind of office, and what do we expect of each other, and how long do you need to show that you’re a different person before people accept that you’re a different person. Those questions, what he represents is a lot more interesting to me than this individual guy in Maine who the voters of Maine will judge, and they’ll do what they’re going to do. I liked what Andy Kim said about this, the senator from New Jersey. He was just like, “ I’ll work with whoever the people of Maine elect to the Senate because that’s my job.” I thought, “That’s the right answer.”

[00:12:17] Sarah: Yeah. To the normie of it all, I think this is so hard. I really want to tease out what I think we’ve compressed, which is that being someone who is unapologetic about certain behaviors means you’re a normie. There’s nothing normal about Donald Trump across his entire life. And so it became that if you’re crude and you’re unapologetic about your own behaviors... I’m not even going to say your mistakes, because he doesn’t describe them as mistakes. So if you have certain indicators in your personal life and you refuse to say that they were mistakes or apologize or make any sort of allowance for them, then that became like you’re not a politician, you’re a normal guy, right? It’s like we’ve put these things together and they’re not the same thing Donald Trump’s not normal. He is unapologetic. And maybe it’s the defensiveness that reads as normal, because I do think that is the posture of a lot of American life right now. I’m going to do what I want. I owe no one an excuse. It’s like I said on the show a long time ago. I don’t even remember what we were talking about; just behavior in retail, I think. And it just feels like the vibe is, “You owe me everything and I owe you shit.” And so there’s something about Sweeping up that cultural posture, that unapologetic entitlement that makes you authentic and normal, that I do think is problematic. And I don’t want to necessarily say this describes Graham Plattner. He has been apologetic. He has said “I suffered from PTSD. I had an incredibly difficult return from my military service.” And I don’t even want to pick at the boundaries of he says he’s a working-class guy, but he went to prep school, and he said she sent him to war, but he signed up. I don’t think that’s how people think about their lives. I think the nitpicking about people’s memories and narratives is kind of stupid, in my opinion. I don’t think that’s how anybody... We would all fall for that. Let me just say that. Every person alive, the narrative you tell about your own existence would be problematic if picked apart at this level. But so I’m not even saying he’s an exact Illustration of what I’m talking about, but that he’s under this umbrella of the unapologetic cussing. The unapologetic “ vices” make you normal and authentic, make you not a politician, but you are running to become a politician.

[00:15:10] Beth: My experience every day in a lot of different kinds of spaces is that the president and a lot of political actors and the way that they’re performing this normalness is way outside the mean of normalness, that most people are not as rude or profane or unapologetic, are trying to live really good lives. I recognize the irony in what I’m about to do here, but I keep thinking about a musical theater song. And I know that is not speaking to like the masculinity crisis and the white whale Joe Rogan voter that Democrats are looking for.

[00:15:53] Sarah: Great way to celebrate Pride, so good job.

[00:15:55] Beth: There you go. There’s a song from the musical Shucked where this guy has just lost his girl, okay? And he’s out in the middle of a field, and he sings this anthem about how if she doesn’t want me, somebody will. And he talks through all the reasons that’s true. And it’s just basically I work really hard. I take good care of my dog. I have a truck. I’m doing my best out here. I can catch fish. I can provide. I’m trying. And that’s enough. And someone will see the value in that, and we will get together and fall in love and be happy. And I love this song. I wish this could be the American male anthem right now, even though it’s a show tune because I think that is what most guys are looking for. Even in that space that has been so exploited by the manosphere, the more you read about it, the more those interviews I read I went and hung out with the guys playing the video games, and here’s what they told me. It is I want to be a dad. I want to have a family. I want to work hard and do my best and give something to the world and know that it’s seen, appreciated, and valued. And so this performance of screw everyone, I do what I want, feels really discordant to me with what everybody’s actually looking for. What I can understand from it is a sense of here’s a person who isn’t going to look down on me. And I think that when you have in the most Well-understood caricature of people who work in Washington, DC, a sense that they look down on everyone and think they’re better than everyone while still taking from society at large, and that is certainly exploding right now. I’m just taking. I’m in it for myself, but I pretend not to be. Then I get why anybody who doesn’t look like they’re pretending not to has some appeal.

[00:18:03] Sarah: I love your vision. I do think we’re a little limited by our own experience. I think there are vast parts of the population that don’t want to work hard that are really floundering, especially when you talk about young men. And I don’t think that’s necessarily because they want that, but I feel like they’re not presented with a path. But I think it’s less interesting to get into the manosphere, although there’s certainly some like masculinity-coded conversations happening around Graham Platner. No doubt about it. I don’t know. I don’t even know what I want, so I definitely don’t know what we want. Because on one hand I can say we are suffering from a Congress that is overly represented by Wealthy people, by older people, by lawyers. I have said and believe that Congress should be a more diverse body that understands a vast array of American experiences, including military service, psychological trauma, financial struggles. I say it and I mean it and I believe it. And at the same time, this job, particularly being a United States senator, requires a high level of skill, professionalization and I think the intersection of when politicians screwed up and they weren’t honest about why and what they were going to do next is why you have the reality we live in now where a scandal doesn’t take out a Ken Paxton, it doesn’t take out a Graham Platner. And I get that. And I don’t think that’s a bad evolution. It’s not like we were handling scandals really well; although, it did kill careers. But maybe that wasn’t the right answer either. You see what I’m saying? I don’t know what to do. I don’t know if we should be like, “No, this is a higher standard of behavior we require from our representatives at the highest level of power,” or, “No, we need to allow more grace and nuance so that they can be real integrated human beings,” because when we don’t let them be “ real integrated human beings,” that’s why they hide scandal, that’s why they hide behavior, that’s why they act so weird when they get caught. I don’t know. I honestly don’t know.

[00:21:00] Beth: I think you’re going to hate my answer on this. What I am really looking for in 2026 as I put together the lessons of the past 10 years is emotional maturity. And I get how feminine-coded that is. And that’s a lot of what we have been debating for a couple of years. Did we go too far in this direction? But here’s the thing for me. I love that Shucked song because it is emotional maturity. It’s like a person who says, “I know what is a good life to me, and I know how to be content.” And when I look at the fact that most people who go to Congress are already wealthy and rapidly become much, much wealthier, then I kind of work backwards from that and think about what kind of person could go to Congress and afford to be in Congress, which is a hard thing, but not get tremendously wealthier through that service, where the goal of the service changes, and it becomes less about service and more about entitlement. And so if I think about any one of these individual things with Graham Platner, don’t care. People change. I agree with you. People don’t have cohesive stories of their lives, and if they do, that’s weird. It’s weird that I went to law school with some people who knew they wanted to be in Congress from age 20 and acted accordingly every step along the way. That’ll mess you up in a different sense. It’s just like who can be grounded and stable and have a support system in place to help them go do this thing that is going to pull them in every direction simultaneously? And what we see over and over, you’ve said this for years, don’t hate the player, hate the game. The game messes people up. So when I look at something like this latest story around Platner, what made my eyebrows shoot up is 2023. They’ve been married since 2023, and in 2026, in the midst of a campaign for Senate, we have this perfectly normal, lovely woman having to make a video saying to the whole world, “Marriage is hard. Infertility is hard. A Senate campaign is hard. And we’re going through all those things at once, and counseling is helping us.” And I think to myself, I can be right with all of that and have complete empathy for it and respect the journey these two people are on, and also wonder to myself, “Can you handle the game that you’re about to walk into?” Again, that is for Maine voters. But that gets to me to the bigger question. When we are taking risks on people, which is what the moment calls for, we don’t need any more of the people who knew they wanted to be in Congress when they were 20. We’re just full up. We’re stocked on that. Good for them, but we are full up and we have seen where that leads. We have to take risks on people. How can we take risks on people who seem to be pretty mature and pretty grounded and pretty stable?

[00:24:10] Sarah: Two things. Yeah, I agree that there is a difference between saying, “I lived a normal human life, and I understand how in isolation some of the choices I made during living my normal human life can be picked apart and seen as some sort of representation of my character.” I do think the fact that the majority of voters seem to have decided, “No, we’re not doing that,” is good and well and shows some progress and evolution. Because we should stop doing that. I’m tired of the... I did this. I did this for Hillary Clinton’s campaign. I did background. I did oppo research. And we should maybe just stop. Unless it was what I was doing, which was your actual votes, but what were we supposed to know when we all of a sudden heard some of Barack Obama’s minister’s speeches? These sort of gotcha oppo research. And also I do think that the Access Hollywood tape should have been disqualifying. So I don’t know, maybe I’m just lying to myself. I do think voters have decided stop trying to short-circuit the process this way. Maybe it’s information we needed, but stop trying to... the gotcha everybody seems to have moved on from, especially if it’s behavior in the past. I agree that this sexting is not in the past. It is not a good stress management technique in the middle of a Senate campaign to be sending explicit messages to up to 12 women at a time. That to me shows someone who is struggling emotionally and psychically with the task before them, probably because he’s so stressed about people finding out about all this shit.

[00:25:51] Beth: And is going into a body where we know that kind of behavior tends to be made worse.

[00:25:57] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:25:57] Beth: We know that kind of behavior is already a problem in this body. I think about this a lot with John Fetterman, and I know that he is a special case because he had an actual stroke too. But I just am looking for people who seem to have really good stress management skills that are not about to go into this place that exacerbates things that you were already struggling with.

[00:26:24] Sarah: Okay, so to the 20-year-olds of it all, I would like to put in an endorsement for some of those people. Here’s a thing I think we haven’t grappled with that I believe is related and comes up with this whole Graham Platner thing. There’s clearly a huge age differential here. We have Susan Collins who’s in her late 70s, Graham Platner’s who’s in his 40s. If you want somebody in their 40s who is equipped emotionally and has the experience throughout their life to be able to handle a Senate campaign or a presidential campaign or like this level of politics, they’re not going to be a normie, not at that age. There’s a reason James Talarico’s not married. There’s a reason Susan Collins doesn’t have any kids. There’s a reason Cory Booker’s going out there and getting married all of a sudden. It’s all-consuming. It’s all-consuming in a way that is going to make you seem abnormal, right? Because it isn’t a normal experience, not at this point in history. Now, do I think uncapping the House can maybe make it a little more normal? I do, but that’s not where we’re at right now. It’s not a normal experience. And if you want people prepared to do it that aren’t 75, then it’s going to look real different, and they might need to be locked in from the age of 20 on. Just saying.

[00:28:14] Beth: I think that’s a really interesting point, and a mix is probably what we need. I don’t mind some of the technocrats and some of the nerds because I think we need that experience. I was just thinking this morning to tell you how not normal I am, that really our next president probably needs a good handle on maritime law. With the Strait of Hormuz and all the shipping disputes, I was reading about the French boarding another ship that was violating international law, and I just thought moving goods and people around the world is going to be one of the most urgent, relevant things the next president will face. Now, would the country be excited about somebody who has a real handle on that stuff? No. So I’m not looking for the kind of inspiration and connection that most people are with their politicians. Personally, I would love to be governed mostly by Gen X right now because I think that Gen X people are experienced enough to learn from people older than them and from people younger than them and past the phase of life that I’m in right now, where you’re thinking a lot about your kids and your parents all the time. Not that they aren’t thinking about those things, but they seem to have a little bit more distance and freedom. So that seems about right to me. But that’s also a silly formulation. We can’t just decide this is the one type of person who’s going to be there. And I do think that’s what at large as a society we’re rejecting. At large, we don’t really want to hear about demographics in any way right now, and I get why. Because we think, let’s just judge by the people and get the right people in there. What’s so weird about that to me is then you’d think we’d also let go of the partisanship. If we’re just judging by the people, then why do we have folks who you know Would be smearing a Republican with Graham Platner’s personal issues every single day of the week defending him. That’s strange to me. And Ken Paxton is the inverse of this, right? People are defensive of Ken Paxton, who are actively right now smearing Graham Platner every day of the week for his personal indiscretions. I’m ready to let go of that piece too. If everything is going to be on the table, then let’s let it all just be on the table.

[00:30:39] Sarah: I think there’s another. I’m making a Venn diagram here. So I think there’s the politics. What do your actual politics and policies convey to people about who you are and how normal you are? Then I think you have your biography, which is another piece of the Venn diagram. The reason people are still so partisan is because the partisanship has nothing to do with policy, and is at just this point just an identity marker, which is the hardest thing for people to release. So if your identity marker matches mine, then that’s all that matters. Now, I think the third part of the Venn diagram is communication style. Now, this part makes sense to me about why Donald Trump ended up where he is. His biography is not normal, but the way he talks, particularly in comparison to a Barack Obama, is super normie, right? I think Graham Platner has a very strong communication style. Watch ed some of him with Jon Stewart, and he sounds smart. He sounds thoughtful. He has a very strong ability to communicate, which I think is probably reaching the voters very strongly.

[00:31:51] Beth: But smart and thoughtful, not professorial.

[00:31:54] Sarah: Right.

[00:31:54] Beth: Not, “I might look down on you.”

[00:31:56] Sarah: This is how you get an AOC, who is also not living a normal life. Even before when she was a bartender. Bartender to member of Congress, not a normal transition. Mamdani, not normal to be that young and be the mayor of New York City. It’s the communication style. So I think that’s probably his strongest asset right now. I think it’s so strong it’s overcoming the weakness when it comes to the biography. And I think ultimately, the politics is a strength because I think especially the more you emphasize the economy and the corruption, people are done, and they’re just going to get more and more done. And I think with Ken Paxton, I think you see a similar thing. Clearly he knows how to communicate with Texans. I don’t like it, but that is what it is, and I think then you lay over the wash this of partisan and I’m going to defend Graham Platner because I’m a Democrat and I want to beat Susan Collins, and you’re going to defend Ken Paxton because you’re a Republican and you don’t want a Democrat from Texas. And then it’s even more compressed and entangled when really I think it’s these three kind of things working in concert.

[00:33:02] Beth: And it’s those things working in concert laid on current events. So I think about Congressman Jake Auchincloss coming out and saying that he finds Platner’s tattoo and his comments about it disqualifying. Auchincloss is a Democrat, seems like an up-and-coming guy, somebody who does media well, also a good communicator.

[00:33:24] Sarah: Big centrist, though.

[00:33:25] Beth: Big centrist, so ideologically in a different place. Which would be an interesting case if they were more ideologically aligned.

[00:33:32] Sarah: Right.

[00:33:33] Beth: But he also says he’s Jewish, and he’s looking at this in a moment when Israel on the international stage is going through the biggest shift in how people view the nation of Israel as a nation, as a state, and how it operates on the international stage. And because of that, you have rising antisemitism met with people saying, “I can’t not say my piece about what Israel is doing in the world because I’m afraid to be antisemitic” and people saying, “Yeah, I guess I am antisemitic,” and this horrific confluence of pressures around a topic that is painful because it is not ancient history. And so you look at somebody like Graham Plattner who comes in with not careful speech, this symbolism that he says he was unaware of or at minimum casual about. Not that I think he was a Nazi by any stretch, but maybe he knew and just thought probably most people don’t know, and it still looks cool, and whatever, it’s there, I did it. So how does all that overlay on this moment?

[00:34:47] Sarah: Complexly. Very complexly. Because that’s the thing, all of this says to me that we are just in a stage of transition, that we are trying to digest the reality of 10 years of Trump in American politics in all kinds of ways, including the candidacy of Graham Plattner. And to the other side, I don’t think we’ve learned the lessons and we’ve decided the key takeaways. But I do think we’re going to see more and more candidacies and candidates that press on these complexities, that push us to say, “But wait, it wasn’t okay for them, but now it’s okay for us.” Maybe that’ll just break the partisanship. That’d be a really great result if that’s what ultimately happens, and everybody goes, “Never mind, we’ll just let it go.”

[00:35:36] Beth: I hope so. Because the other thing in my mind as we’re talking is that there are going to be people who are mad we are having this conversation at all. Because in addition to all those factors I just listed about Israel, you do have Donald Trump as the president making decisions every day that are enormously consequential. And so there are going to be people who think elevating any of this, spending any time on it, is a betrayal because the moral imperative is electing Democrats to the Senate, and I made this argument in our last episode, to at least put some friction on the runway for President Trump. I agree that it is an imperative to put friction on the runway for President Trump. I also want to have a conversation like this and think pretty deeply about where we are in that state of transition, because I don’t think it gets better if we are always in that defensive posture. That feels to me like what we have done really unsuccessfully as a society for the last 15, 20 years, always being in that defensive posture. I think the Republican Party has gotten much more extreme and ineffective because it decided the Democrats are an existential enemy, and I think the Democratic Party has gotten more extreme and less effective because it’s decided that Republicans are an existential enemy. And so I can hold in both hands that come November, when you have a choice on a ballot, you got to make the best choice for the moment. And other than that, you need to be thinking about where we are. We all need to be thinking and discussing what works for us in these roles. What are we learning? Who do we hope to see as our senators?

[00:37:24] Sarah: Here’s the thing. The learning from this particular era of American politics should not be that the moral imperative is to put some friction on the runway for Donald Trump, because surely to God, we have all learned at this point that this particular political figure is very empowered by friction. I don’t think he wants anything but to have a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House to fight him because that’s where he’s most comfortable, is fighting and communicating the fact that everything, every problem is the Democrats’ fault because they’re in charge of the Senate and they’re in charge of the House and they won’t let him do any of the great things he wants to do for America. Now, do I think that show is running its course and people don’t fall for it in the way that they used to? Yes. But make no mistake, I think that’s what he wants. I think that he wouldn’t be sad. I don’t think he gives a shit if they win the midterms or not, the Republican Party, that is, because I think he likes that. That is where he is most comfortable. We think that we’re going to elect a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate, and he’s going to go, “Oh, no, I guess I’ll just hang out for the next two years.” Hell no. Now, I still want a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate. I want investigations. I want legislation stopped. I’m not saying that’s not the political imperative, but it will strengthen him in some ways. It will corral the people who were maybe loosening their grip on that partisan identity, because they will fall back in line and they’ll say, “Oh, yep, they’re fighting us and they are the existential threat, and this is what we have to do.” Just be clear-eyed about that. This isn’t going to be some easy victory and then everybody’s going to see the error of their ways and never vote Republican again.

[00:39:08] Beth: You know that from our personal lives. If you have someone in your life who is fundamentally selfish and thinks of themselves as a victim, everything is heads I win, tails you lose. And that’s how it is with Donald Trump. And so that’s another reason that I don’t feel constrained from saying, “I see some problems with this Democrat on the ballot,” because I don’t think anyone’s position is strengthened intellectually, morally, relationally By ignoring what everybody can see and failing to pull apart what does this mean for me? Where do I want to go from here?”

[00:39:48] Sarah: Yeah, because the candidates that get through that are real risks to both parties are the ones that either party, because that’s the ultimately the only check, because the system we’ve got set up right now is the check on your power is your own party, full stop. And the system where we decided because the other guy’s worse, we’ll let everybody through, I think is bad, and I think it could use some improvement. And I hope that we’ve all learned that lesson, although sometimes I wonder. What I really care about is what the people of Maine think in our audience. I do want to hear from our listeners in Maine. I want to hear how different it feels on the ground in Maine, like what your perception is of Graham Platner and Susan Collins and how this campaign is rolling out. I think that’ll be a really interesting conversation in the comments over on Substack, so I look forward to that. Up next, we’re going to talk about an Instagram account. Beth, I’ve had Instagram accounts that I’m fascinated by or that really make me laugh or that I’m just enamored by. I don’t run to Pantsuit Politics and make a commercial for them in our Outside of Politics section in the way we’re about to do. Because this Instagram account is not just distracting me. It’s just made my life better. It’s made my life better, and now I’ve got you hooked too. If you are watching the video Pantsuit Politics right now, you’ll see that Beth and I are both wearing scarves, and the reason is because we follow Bronte the Stylist on Instagram, who gives you a prompt every day for your outfits, and today’s prompt, as we’re recording on Monday, June 1st, was style a scarf

[00:41:37] Beth: Yes, I like what Bronte the Stylist is doing a lot. I do want to say, as you’ve talked about it as an Instagram obsession, I’ve been like, “Is that true? I guess it is.” Because it doesn’t feel to me like something that is trying to--

[00:41:51] Sarah: Keep me there.

[00:41:51] Beth: Make me sit down and watch more and more and buy things.

[00:41:55] Sarah:  It’s not a series.

[00:41:56] Beth: She’s like, Listen, I’m going to tell you once a week some prompts for your outfits to use what’s already in your closet in new and different ways,” and I love that. I think it’s great.

[00:42:10] Sarah: So fun. Wednesday’s prompt is wear pink because on Wednesdays we wear pink. She doesn’t do that every Wednesday. I just want to say that. But they’re very basic. It’s not dress like a 1950s housewife. It’s wear blue. Wear a maxi skirt.

[00:42:22] Beth:  Choose three Colors.

[00:42:24] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:42:25] Beth:  Put three colors Together.

[00:42:26] Sarah: Put three colors together. Put them together in this particular way. I just find it a nice starting point. Because I have an app that I use called Cladwell that I’ve used for years that has everything I own in my closet. It’s very Clueless. It’ll put together an outfit for you. But then I’m looking at the weather or what do I have to do that day; whereas, I don’t know why I’m not even checking the weather anymore. I’m just like I’m just going to wear what she tells me. I’m just going to do the prompt. I’m going to do the prompt. And I think it’s because you’re not just trying to dress to solving a problem. It is a creative exercise, which is why I love clothes. At their best they’re a really fun, creative exercise, and I think her prompts really bring that out.

[00:43:10] Beth: So it doesn’t solve the problem for you. It is a prompt. It’s a beginning. So you think, wear a scarf, and then I don’t know about you, but I went through a lot of iterations of what might that mean and what do I want to wear with it.

[00:43:22] Sarah:  Do you know How long it took me to figure out how to tie this knot? Like 15 minutes, Beth. It took forever.

[00:43:29] Beth:  And it looks great. If you’re not watching the video, Sarah has a beautiful knot in the scarf around her neck today. My scarf is in my hair because another thing that I’ve gotten from watching her videos is understanding that my hair is part of my outfit every day. This is a piece of it. She explicitly says that in one of the challenges this week. It’s to kind of channel your inner Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. And she said to think about your hair because Carrie’s hair often played a real role in the overall look, and I appreciate the way that she is taking what I already have and just giving me a question or an idea to look at it differently.

[00:44:05] Sarah: Yeah. I love it. I’m telling you guys, it’s such a fun account. I would like to see people do this sort of approach with other things like in your house, with your meal planning. I think there’s a real opportunity here that she’s cracked open. So go check it out, Bronte the Stylist. Now, before we go, we have a pretty massive announcement here at Pantsuit Politics. It is the end, truly, of an era Because both Maggie and Alise are leaving Pantsuit Politics to pursue other careers, jobs, chances, opportunities, and dreams.

[00:44:50] Beth: Yes.

[00:44:51] Sarah: So massive change here at Pantsuit Politics.

[00:44:54] Beth: What I really want you to know is that Maggie and Alise are two talented, kind people that we have been so fortunate to work with. They made these decisions. We did not fire them. We are not trying to reduce our expenses in that way. This was not about performance. They’ve been great, and we wish them every happiness on earth. And know that they will be happy because they’re the kind of people who will go out and make their happiness. So this has been hard, but it is okay and we support them and we know that they’re still rooting for us. It’s just change, and change doesn’t always feel good, but it’s often healthy.

[00:45:29] Sarah: I guess I knew in my thinking brain that we weren’t all four going to retire in the podcast industry. When I say that out loud I understood that probably logically, but yeah. Change is hard. That’s why it means so much to have the support of all of you guys. We have made a post on Substack as a place for everyone to go give their well wishes and congratulations to Maggie and Alise, because we know that they’re a huge part of this community, a huge part of so many of your lives. They’re not going anywhere. They’ll be on Substack as members; although, I would not blame them one solid ounce if they wanted to take a break from our content after five to eight years of listening.

[00:46:13] Beth: I’m sure that they need some real space from the sounds of our voices for a while.

[00:46:17] Sarah: And that’s okay.

[00:46:18] Beth: Here’s another thing I really want to say. I love you all so much. Please don’t send us your resumes yet. No. We need a minute to get our ducks in a row here because this is a huge change for us. It is a big deal to send someone your resume. We do not want to be part of the employer ghosting situation where you send a resume and you never hear back. When we are ready to hire, we want to communicate clearly what we’re looking for. We want to do it in a process where we can be respectful to you. So I know that there are people out there who think, “Oh, I could help and be valuable,” and I’m sure that you could. We just need a minute, and we will communicate that broadly and clearly when we’re there. But for the summer, we’re going to get our arms around things. So just give us a second to get our arms around things, and then we’ll be back in touch.

[00:47:08] Sarah: Thank you for joining us for today’s episode of Pantsuit Politics. We will be back in your ears on Friday. And until then, keep it nuanced, y’all.

Show Credits

Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.

Our theme music was composed by Xander Singh with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.

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