I really loved the wrestle and struggle in this discussion. This is the hard challenging, processing, and grounded moral struggle that I love and respect Pantsuit Politics so much for. Thank you!!
I was in DC this past weekend and this was on the side of a building…first I’m not sure how I feel about a street race around the core of our monuments and iconic buildings. Secondly, our 250 celebration “delivered by Donald J. Trump…”
Outside of politics, I have been using Bronte’s prompts or the outfit formulas from @Lauren Owens (mamaindenim on insta) to get back into the routine putting on my “outside clothes” every day. I have experienced a lot of changes lately - my body, where I live and how I spend my days - so reconsidering my wardrobe has been a both a creative exercise and served as a gap analysis of what pieces I might want to acquire or jettison. Plus, my 25 year old daughter and I do the prompts together and we send each other a “‘fit pic” every day. It’s a fun way to bond!
I appreciated the nuance of this conversation. So much of the discussion around Platner is either “this is purity politics!! Can’t people change??” or “this guy is 100% evil” and as usual the truth is somewhere in between. Two thoughts: one, the white male of it all needs to be factored in - who gets a redemption arc and who doesn’t. Who is “authentic and keeping it real” and who is pandering. Two, why did he jump right into a senate race? Why not state or local government first? I don’t know if he’s addressed this but to me it points to what Beth was talking about - a lack of emotional maturity.
I don’t live in Maine so this isn’t for me to find the answers to. His red flags are numerous, I do not think they’re all out yet, I don’t believe his tattoo story AND YET if he’s the nominee I would want him to win. It is what it is.
I don’t know what to think about Platner, but I’m not mad you had the conversation. It gave me a lot to think about.
To the partisanship, I’ve been trying lately to look at candidates as job applicants, because that’s essentially what they’re doing, right? They’re applying for a job and we are the hiring committee. I think I remember Beth saying that at one point so I won’t take credit 😂 but it’s been a helpful lens to start from to bring down my own defenses a bit.
I’m tired of listening to candidates attack their opponents. Don’t tell me why I shouldn’t vote for that guy, I want to know what YOU bring to the table.
RIGHT! Give me something to vote FOR, not against. Speaking to a candidate -- if your ideas are good, I will want to vote for you. I will not want to vote for you just because the other person is "bad" (though, obviously, I will in the situations we live in now... but not because I think you ran a good campaign!) This logical fallacy is what led us straight into 2016 through now.
I’m going to comment on the outside of politics section. Excited for the new instagram follow! If you like her you should also check out @lucybhutchins. She does fashion stuff and talks a lot about buying second hand and has really led to me lessening my consumerism and thinking more about the effects of fast fashion on the environment.
It would be really nice if there was a floor for what we expect of politicians’ character. Instead it feels like wildly different expectations, changing goal posts, and purity tests. Did appreciate Derek Thompson’s comments about it on Tim Miller’s podcast today.
I liked Sarah’s Venn diagram of politics, biography, and communication. I think that framing helps think through Platner’s rhetorical and political situation: the balance and overlap of each part shifts and changes for each candidate, context, audience, purpose, etc. Platner definitely excels at communication and storytelling, and I think that part of the Venn diagram holds a lot of power in this media environment (Yuval Harari talked about this on Ezra Klein, recently). I commented on the Rahm Emanuel piece that I found Platner to be a much better communicator and policy messenger with a grounding in history. Given his knowledge of history, he should have known the symbolism of that tattoo and probably did. But I also know his biography (and identities) mean people will give him a pass on these scandals that they wouldn’t give to others. Not sure where that leaves me, but I want more people who fulfill the Venn diagram without the problems!!
As someone who lives in a state that Ken Paxton likely will be my next Senator, I want so much less acceptance of horrible behavior. Not looking for perfection. Just looking for something other than *waves hands around wildly* whatever this insanity is currently.
Platner was on Jason Kander's podcast last week. It was the first time I'd heard anything from him directly. The thing that stuck out to me was how he was talking about running his campaign, how he's organizing people, etc. He had a "that's a lot of noise I have to respond to but I'm trying to staying focused on what people in Maine need" attitude that was pretty refreshing, honestly. I'm also looking for the Maine listeners to share their perspective - the national conversation is always so different than the local one. I do hope he's got good people in his corner who are willing to hold him accountable and keep him honest.
While I was listening, I kept thinking about how we now just assume veterans are pretty messed up, and that seems like a deeper conversation our country isn't willing to have. We just "honor our veterans" because it makes us feel better about these young men and women who have been profoundly damaged (and often wreak damage throughout their lives) by American war making.
This piece does a nice job of suggesting why places like the state of Maine are unlikely to be too surprised by Platner's past and current mistakes - because Maine and places like it are where our veterans actually live: https://rickperlstein.substack.com/p/but-did-you-die
And especially as our wars become ever more pointless! I know this would be a dead letter for current leadership of the military but for us to just throw up our hands and bake in the cost of hundreds of thousands of traumatized Americans is a moral travesty.
I feel about the Maine senatorial election the way I do about a lot of foreign policy - I have my own thoughts and biases, and I have sought out information about it and turned it around and around in my mind, and ultimately - I'm really glad that I'm not one of the people who has to make a decision about it. I have felt aggravated by Susan Collin not fighting against Trump more, but one thing I do trust about her is that she cares about the institution of the US Senate, and she is clearly able to handle her job in the midst of chaos. At the same time, Graham Platner seems well-meaning and has some unique life experience that I think could be valuable, but he also seems slightly unhinged to me. I think they both could do some damage and do some good.
But maybe I'm just an indecisive person, because in my home state of Michigan we have three capable and (I believe) well-meaning candidates running in the Democratic primary for the Senate, each with their own unique strengths and liabilities, and I could see myself voting for any of them.
Scandals no longer matter because the stakes of politics have gotten so high. I do not care about anything going on with Platner, so long as he hasn’t broken the law. All I care about is ripping that seat from Collins’ treacherous little hands.
Throughout 2016, when there was still time for primary voters to pick someone else, it was known that Trump was operating a fraudulent university, stealing money from young adults, and ended up paying a $25 million dollar settlement. This did not hurt his candidacy in the eyes of the primary voters and it has been memory-holed by the whole electorate. Why? For the other reason that scandals no longer matter: the deep, festering rot within our society that afflicts swing voters and especially Republican primary voters.
On a recent episode you said “Democrats are acting like they don’t trust voters” and I wanted to scream!
Democrats are in serious trouble, because long-term electoral success depends (among other things) on pretending we don’t hold the feelings we genuinely hold, and I don’t think we’re very good actors.
I really loved the wrestle and struggle in this discussion. This is the hard challenging, processing, and grounded moral struggle that I love and respect Pantsuit Politics so much for. Thank you!!
As a Gen Xer, I don't think we want to be governing this mess lol.
I was in DC this past weekend and this was on the side of a building…first I’m not sure how I feel about a street race around the core of our monuments and iconic buildings. Secondly, our 250 celebration “delivered by Donald J. Trump…”
Can we all just be honest and say that cheating is domestic violence?
Outside of politics, I have been using Bronte’s prompts or the outfit formulas from @Lauren Owens (mamaindenim on insta) to get back into the routine putting on my “outside clothes” every day. I have experienced a lot of changes lately - my body, where I live and how I spend my days - so reconsidering my wardrobe has been a both a creative exercise and served as a gap analysis of what pieces I might want to acquire or jettison. Plus, my 25 year old daughter and I do the prompts together and we send each other a “‘fit pic” every day. It’s a fun way to bond!
I appreciated the nuance of this conversation. So much of the discussion around Platner is either “this is purity politics!! Can’t people change??” or “this guy is 100% evil” and as usual the truth is somewhere in between. Two thoughts: one, the white male of it all needs to be factored in - who gets a redemption arc and who doesn’t. Who is “authentic and keeping it real” and who is pandering. Two, why did he jump right into a senate race? Why not state or local government first? I don’t know if he’s addressed this but to me it points to what Beth was talking about - a lack of emotional maturity.
I don’t live in Maine so this isn’t for me to find the answers to. His red flags are numerous, I do not think they’re all out yet, I don’t believe his tattoo story AND YET if he’s the nominee I would want him to win. It is what it is.
I don’t know what to think about Platner, but I’m not mad you had the conversation. It gave me a lot to think about.
To the partisanship, I’ve been trying lately to look at candidates as job applicants, because that’s essentially what they’re doing, right? They’re applying for a job and we are the hiring committee. I think I remember Beth saying that at one point so I won’t take credit 😂 but it’s been a helpful lens to start from to bring down my own defenses a bit.
I’m tired of listening to candidates attack their opponents. Don’t tell me why I shouldn’t vote for that guy, I want to know what YOU bring to the table.
RIGHT! Give me something to vote FOR, not against. Speaking to a candidate -- if your ideas are good, I will want to vote for you. I will not want to vote for you just because the other person is "bad" (though, obviously, I will in the situations we live in now... but not because I think you ran a good campaign!) This logical fallacy is what led us straight into 2016 through now.
I'm very much with you!
I’m going to comment on the outside of politics section. Excited for the new instagram follow! If you like her you should also check out @lucybhutchins. She does fashion stuff and talks a lot about buying second hand and has really led to me lessening my consumerism and thinking more about the effects of fast fashion on the environment.
It would be really nice if there was a floor for what we expect of politicians’ character. Instead it feels like wildly different expectations, changing goal posts, and purity tests. Did appreciate Derek Thompson’s comments about it on Tim Miller’s podcast today.
I liked Sarah’s Venn diagram of politics, biography, and communication. I think that framing helps think through Platner’s rhetorical and political situation: the balance and overlap of each part shifts and changes for each candidate, context, audience, purpose, etc. Platner definitely excels at communication and storytelling, and I think that part of the Venn diagram holds a lot of power in this media environment (Yuval Harari talked about this on Ezra Klein, recently). I commented on the Rahm Emanuel piece that I found Platner to be a much better communicator and policy messenger with a grounding in history. Given his knowledge of history, he should have known the symbolism of that tattoo and probably did. But I also know his biography (and identities) mean people will give him a pass on these scandals that they wouldn’t give to others. Not sure where that leaves me, but I want more people who fulfill the Venn diagram without the problems!!
Is it just me or would more women candidates fulfill the Venn diagram without the problems...?
As someone who lives in a state that Ken Paxton likely will be my next Senator, I want so much less acceptance of horrible behavior. Not looking for perfection. Just looking for something other than *waves hands around wildly* whatever this insanity is currently.
Platner was on Jason Kander's podcast last week. It was the first time I'd heard anything from him directly. The thing that stuck out to me was how he was talking about running his campaign, how he's organizing people, etc. He had a "that's a lot of noise I have to respond to but I'm trying to staying focused on what people in Maine need" attitude that was pretty refreshing, honestly. I'm also looking for the Maine listeners to share their perspective - the national conversation is always so different than the local one. I do hope he's got good people in his corner who are willing to hold him accountable and keep him honest.
While I was listening, I kept thinking about how we now just assume veterans are pretty messed up, and that seems like a deeper conversation our country isn't willing to have. We just "honor our veterans" because it makes us feel better about these young men and women who have been profoundly damaged (and often wreak damage throughout their lives) by American war making.
This piece does a nice job of suggesting why places like the state of Maine are unlikely to be too surprised by Platner's past and current mistakes - because Maine and places like it are where our veterans actually live: https://rickperlstein.substack.com/p/but-did-you-die
I think about this more and more, especially as so many people have been sent to battle in not-quite-wars.
And especially as our wars become ever more pointless! I know this would be a dead letter for current leadership of the military but for us to just throw up our hands and bake in the cost of hundreds of thousands of traumatized Americans is a moral travesty.
I feel about the Maine senatorial election the way I do about a lot of foreign policy - I have my own thoughts and biases, and I have sought out information about it and turned it around and around in my mind, and ultimately - I'm really glad that I'm not one of the people who has to make a decision about it. I have felt aggravated by Susan Collin not fighting against Trump more, but one thing I do trust about her is that she cares about the institution of the US Senate, and she is clearly able to handle her job in the midst of chaos. At the same time, Graham Platner seems well-meaning and has some unique life experience that I think could be valuable, but he also seems slightly unhinged to me. I think they both could do some damage and do some good.
But maybe I'm just an indecisive person, because in my home state of Michigan we have three capable and (I believe) well-meaning candidates running in the Democratic primary for the Senate, each with their own unique strengths and liabilities, and I could see myself voting for any of them.
I agree with you so much about Susan Collins -- the good, the bad, the compromised.
Love the scarf styling! Makes me feel like we're all going someplace special today.
:)
Scandals no longer matter because the stakes of politics have gotten so high. I do not care about anything going on with Platner, so long as he hasn’t broken the law. All I care about is ripping that seat from Collins’ treacherous little hands.
Throughout 2016, when there was still time for primary voters to pick someone else, it was known that Trump was operating a fraudulent university, stealing money from young adults, and ended up paying a $25 million dollar settlement. This did not hurt his candidacy in the eyes of the primary voters and it has been memory-holed by the whole electorate. Why? For the other reason that scandals no longer matter: the deep, festering rot within our society that afflicts swing voters and especially Republican primary voters.
It makes me smile to see our now-age-old debate surfacing here.
On a recent episode you said “Democrats are acting like they don’t trust voters” and I wanted to scream!
Democrats are in serious trouble, because long-term electoral success depends (among other things) on pretending we don’t hold the feelings we genuinely hold, and I don’t think we’re very good actors.
I wonder what the opposite approach would look like — no bad pretending, just “hey, get your act together!”
I would cry real tears for sheer beauty of it as I’m hauled off to the gulag.
Laughed out loud!
Just here to be delighted to witness a good old Lou-Beth convo. I love it!