Why We're Voting For Joe Biden

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[00:00:00] Beth: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. We're getting so close to election night. Thank you for being here with us in the midst of election season. If you are thinking, what am I going to do with myself on election night? We have an answer for you now. No one knows what election night is going to be like this year. That's why we should experience it in community.

So Sarah and I will be on HotMic, which is a free app that you can download. We'll put a code in the show notes for you to find us there from 8 Eastern to 10 Eastern, we're going to hang out. We're going to watch whatever there is to watch,. Could be exit polling could be some returns from different States and we'll discuss what's happening.

We'll probably talk about lots of things, unrelated to the election as we tend to do when we are on HotMic. And it'll be a good time. So mark your calendar, get the app. Be ready to join us on election night.

Sarah: [00:00:49] And if you're just thinking to yourself, I want more Sarah and Beth in every way, we had to listener reach out and say, I can't keep up with everything.

So let's just do a quick rundown. [00:01:00] Okay. Obviously we have Pantsuit Politics, Tuesday and Friday. We have another podcast called The Nuanced Life on Wednesday, where we commemorate life's messiness. You should join us over there as well. Beth does a nightly nuance. Monday through Wednesday and on Thursday we do it together.

And then I do a news brief on Instagram every morning, Monday through Thursday in our stories. And if that's not enough, you can get our email on Friday by subscribing at our website, Pantsuitpoliticsshow.com or follow us on Twitter. We also have a book club, the extra credit book club subscription through wild geese bookshop in Franklin, Indiana.

You can subscribe to the books or you can just follow along and read them from your local library on good reads and our Facebook Pantsuit Politics book club page. Is that everything, Beth? I think that's everything.

Beth: [00:01:48] It's a lot things. And so Alise very helpfully once a month for all of our Patreon supporters makes a list of just everything from the month that we've done.

If we've been on other shows, she puts [00:02:00] links there and she tells you by topic and date, what we've done in all of the places. So that's a good way to keep up with us. And our email is a good way to know if there are special events coming up. So listen, it's a mess with the Pantsuit Politics calendar here, but we're just trying to hang in with everything and be supportive for everyone.

And we appreciate you being here. We also really appreciate the people who allow us to do this work by supporting us on Patreon and today, hang around through the entire credits section. Because one of our new executive producers, Abigail said to us, this is really a family exercise. We all love Pantsuit Politics and Abigail son says their name in the credits with an enthusiasm that is unmatchable and that you need in your Tuesday. I promise

Sarah: [00:02:47] As we start this week, we're recording on Monday. We are facing the highest seven day average in coronavirus cases. Daily infection rates surge to its highest rates since the pandemic began. [00:03:00] And it seems to all the public health experts that, that this is largely a result of the infection spread across the United States.

We don't have hotspots. We have a hot country, especially in the mountains and Midwest. We have places in Wisconsin where they have opened up a field hospital. We have places in Montana. Um, El Paso, Texas is getting a lot of coverage in the news media. Because their hospitals are reaching or are already at capacity.

So this is an incredibly scary time as we enter the fall and we enter flu season and temperatures drop to see infections rates rising the way that they are. Beth. Did you see an appropriate seriousness from the Trump administration over the weekend as we face this third surge?

Beth: [00:03:44] Well, when I heard the Trump administration saying over the weekend is that we are just not going to try anymore. Everybody's going to get sick. Everybody's going to get sick. And fortunately, we are developing therapeutics that will help that sickness not be so, so [00:04:00] terrible. And hopefully we will prevent most deaths, but certainly not all of them.

Sarah: [00:04:06] Beth, how would people get said therapeutics if the hospitals are overrun?

Beth: [00:04:09] I think it's an important question. I also think it's important to remember, as the daughter of someone who received very good therapeutics for this, that it is still a long, miserable, awful road. And we don't know exactly where it ends. We still did not understand the long-term ramifications of this virus.

So in my opinion, we are way too early in the process to decide that everyone is going to get sick. And we'll just do our best on the other side of that. But that seems to be where the white house is. We also learned that the white house itself has decided to assist in the process of speeding up everyone getting sick.

Because at least five members of vice president Pence's inner circle, including his chief of staff have tested positive yet the vice president is still out on the campaign trail. Despite the fact that we know that the Rose garden event in which Amy Coney Barrett was introduced to the country was a super spreader event. The white house was [00:05:00] planning another outdoor ceremony to celebrate her confirmation to the Supreme court. And all this is

Sarah: [00:05:05] that's the moment where I really just about lost it. You know, I've starting to think they're not being forthcoming with us about vice-president Pence, particularly as evidenced by the fact that they were trying to keep the outbreak in his office, a secret.

 I don't trust them or the information they are providing, which is a really terrible place to be in considering that vice president Pence is the head of the coronavirus task force. And again, we're entering this third stage, but when they said we did an outdoor event for her swearing in ceremony, that's when I just about dropped my basket. I was so angry and so frustrated that they can still provoke that response in me

Beth: [00:05:47] and every single day, we read again about how Congress is not making progress on a stimulus. They say they're making progress sometimes other times there's no progress. The house and Steve Mnuchin are making progress, but Nope, the [00:06:00] Senate is not making progress.

All of these headlines about COVID honestly, just make me want to sit around and listen to Kacey Musgraves sing Merry-go-round because I'm so depressed about it. I don't know how to. Stay with it in a way that feels meaningful, but I just try to remember that it's election season, a lot of things are changing and there are a lot of good things happening.

And one of those good things is early voting. You know, 60 million people will have voted by the time you'll hear this podcast. And that is because of this pandemic and the pandemic forcing us to recognize that America is an awfully big country and people need more than one day to vote in it. So I'm trying to stay focused on where we are making progress, but the white house is not making that easy.

Sarah: [00:06:48] Well, and I think, you know, I love how everyone has adopted your, but with an exclamation mark and their pictures and all the sharing on social media. And I thought, you know what? I feel like [00:07:00] that's, what's happening with Amy Coney Barrett confirmation. I think that so many of the Republican senators, this ceremony, they're just, they're voting with an exclamation mark because they know that the results might not and probably will not flow their way on election night.

You know, Mitch McConnell's even said the quiet part right out loud. Um, late at night, over the weekend, he said a lot of what we've done over the last four years will be undone sooner or later by the next election. They won't be able to do much about this for a long time to come. Now, Beth, do you hear in that statement, the belief that as a textualist, Amy Coney Barrett is just giving Congress, the power to legislate and that's really what they need to do their job. And the judiciary doesn't need to interfere. Is that what you hear in that statement? Cause that's not what I hear in that statement.

Beth: [00:07:46] No. And I'll tell you that I spent a bunch of time on SCOTUS blog this morning, which is a website I love to use to stay abreast of what's happening with the Supreme court.

And the way the court is already functioning is so [00:08:00] gravely concerning. I feel like even since the death of justice Ginsburg, we're just seeing an acceleration in what SCOTUS blog and others are referring to as the shadow docket, where the court is deciding emergency matters quickly. And without an opinion to explain why the court has reached its conclusion. Bless justice Sotomayor, who is feverously cranking out dissents in those cases so that we have someone writing about why they voted as they did, but the absence of transparency and listen, I'm a person who is at many points in my life, described myself as judicially conservative.

Okay. These cases are the definition of what we, who say we are judicially conservative don't like. These cases are the unelected unaccountable justices in a way that is wholly [00:09:00] lacking in transparency. Overturning the will of the people and the, the decisions of States, even sometimes at the expense of state courts, interpreting state law.

Exactly what we talked about with Bush versus Gore. And so I logged on to Twitter today. And the first thing I saw was someone tweeting an ad from Americans for Prosperity to tell your Senator, to confirm judge Barrett, to be justice Barrett. And I thought we are just, we're lost. That is going to happen today.

By the time you hear this, she will be on the court. But that, that shift in the courts dynamic is well underway already. And Mitch McConnell is right. It will not be undone for a long, long time. And it is not what it's being sold as.

Sarah: [00:09:50] Well, I hope that the long, long time part isn't true. You know, I know that many in progressive circles saw Joe Biden's interview on 60 minutes where he answered the [00:10:00] question about his stance on quote unquote court packing and said that I'm going to appoint a commission.

The court clearly needs reform. Um, as a punt, I don't see it as a punt. Um, I see it as incredibly, an incredibly powerful movement in the right direction and acknowledging that this is broken. And like so many institutions in our country right now, they need serious care. You know, I was listening to The Daily about suburban women voters, and I just basically cried through the whole thing because I know it is so reflective of our audience.

And if you want to feel less alone, definitely check out that episode. We'll put the link in the show notes and I thought, you know, listening to. You guys, and the women in this podcast talk about their role as mothers and how important that has played in their decision to become more active in this election, to learn more about issues, to be a more informed voter, to really participate actively for the first time.

I feel [00:11:00] so hopeful because I think there are so many things beyond just this election that need mothering in the United States right now that they need care. And I think men can mother too, for what it's worth. And the Supreme court is one of them. Our public schools are one of them. And you know, for so long on this podcast, we've talked about this.

Our institutions are broken or institutions are struggling under the weight of our changing world. And listening and watching these early voting numbers and realizing that people are ready to care. People are ready to care for our institutions and having candidates that say, we have to study this and figure out what, what we need.

We need to care for this institution and give it what it needs is such a encouraging. Encouraging moment in American history. And particularly because I think it stands in stark contrast to this death grip, this w this McConnell saying that the quiet part out loud, we're losing. So we're going to do everything we can before we lose big.

And, you know, [00:12:00] listening to women say, I can't imagine voting Republican again. I think they see that they see, like, you don't. You are not giving our institutions any care. You're just grabbing for power. You're ignoring this moment in history. When Americans desperately need care, literal, literal, physical care, and saying, we're just going to try to mitigate the damages and just the emptiness of that approach to leadership and seeing American citizens saying we don't want that.

We don't want. This hands-off, you know, empty power grab. We want care. We want care for our institutions care for our fellow citizens. And it's just, it's really, really, really filling me with hope right now,

Beth: [00:12:43] Sarah, when we did our event, our pre-election political therapy on Friday and thank you to everyone who joined us for that.

It was incredibly lovely to see you all. You said that civility is becoming a trigger word for me, which I laughed about a lot and thought about since. And I think a question we received [00:13:00] from Kiersten helped me figure out why. So Kiersten asked us to discuss the president's interest in Norman Peale's, The Power of Positive Thinking.

She said once she learned that he is really into this theory, it infuriated her and also helped her understand him more. And I think that seeing the president, talking with Leslie Stahl and telling her that she had such a bad attitude helped me crystallize why I'm frustrated with the notion of civility in this moment, because I think it is important to treat each other with respect and dignity.

I don't think that means having a good attitude all the time. And I think honesty is much more important and a much bigger component of care then just using words that don't offend the person across from you. Leslie Stahl did not ask unfair questions of this president, but she did ask questions that were so pointed through the lens of an honest assessment of what this country is going through, that the president interpreted [00:14:00] them as having a bad attitude and that I am finished with.

 Your dad um, Sarah responded to me on Twitter the other day that Donald Trump could cure cancer and I still wouldn't like him. And I sat with that and I thought, no, that's correct. Donald Trump could cure cancer. And I would not cast it as I wouldn't like him, but I would say I still wouldn't want him to be the president because when we have this just underlying inability to acknowledge any fact that disrupts your sense, that everything's great and you're doing amazing. And we're just going to keep turning corners.

I don't think that that's an appropriate mindset for leadership. Again, Donald Trump go live your best life. I don't care what that looks like. I just don't want you in the oval office because I don't think that power of positive thinking is an appropriate framework for real leadership. I like being positive, but I also think we have to sit [00:15:00] and reconcile and grapple with and tend to those things that are broken.

Sarah: [00:15:05] I would like to suggest a title change for Norman Peale's classic upon its next printing, which is the Power of Positive Thinking to prop up your privilege. This was instrumental in his father's life. Um, I think it is truly the foundation upon which this narcissistic approach to the universe, uh, depends and sits.

And it is. It's not just him, you know, it runs through a lot of American culture. Uh, we're going to talk about Bernie Brown's interview with Joe Biden in the next segment. But the part where I went, you know, I did my classic  mmhm is when she said, I told my husband the other day that America's death certificate is going to say death by rugged individualism.

And I think that this they're two sides of the same coin, this positive thinking, rugged individualism and, you know, It's such a part of our narrative as a nation. And it has been, I think, really central [00:16:00] to our deliberate unwillingness to examine our own history, to recognize that these institutions really are in crisis.

And, you know, COVID-19 does not allow you to positively think yourself out of an infection. It does not allow you to, you know, rugged individualism holds no real defense against a virus. And I think that's what we're seeing. And I think, I think you're a hundred percent, right? That is what's. So to me, obnoxious and the way he reacted to her, another thing I really.

Noticed with the interview with Leslie Stahl is, you know, he was very upset over and over again. You don't talk to Joe Biden like this. And I thought, because you're not Joe Biden, he wants to be an outsider and he wants to be treated as a regular politician. He wants to shred every single [00:17:00] norm and then be treated as a normal president.

You can, if you want to be treated like a normal president than act like one, if you want to be questioned about what's your ice cream cone flavor, he was very offended by that, that Joe Biden walked out of an ice cream parlor and they asked him his flavor. I thought, well, then don't have reporters waiting to say, what's actually in your tax records.

What's your actual health plan? What are your like act normal? And you'll be treated, normally shred the norms and you won't be treated that way. It's like, he really wants the best of both worlds. He wants to be this outsider, this populist, I'm going to drain the swamp and then get treated like George HW Bush, give me a break.

It doesn't work that way.

Beth: [00:17:39] And it really is shocking the degree to which we've all calibrated to him over the weekend. I kept seeing headlines than I thought. I just felt almost waves of nausea as I took in headlines because any single one of them on its own was worthy of hours of research and thought and discussion [00:18:00] and front page headlines.

But again, I go back to Kacey Musgraves, just like dust we settle on this ground. I feel like that is what has happened here. We've just sunk in. We, our expectation is that the president will lie in interviews. Our expectation is that the president will fly around the country, holding rallies with lots of people with masks and tell us, yeah, people are going to get sick, but you know, we're doing a better job treating them. So, so be it. It's discouraging.

Sarah: [00:18:29] Yeah. I read something this weekend that really helped me put that particular response to him in a really great framework. And I think in particular, by how. We all are still caught up in 2016. It was from Jonah Goldberg. You've got me reading all the dispatch emails and he was talking about how we get stuck in time warps.

And like, it was really funny. They said, there's a theory that we all got stuck in a time warp when [00:19:00] Warren Beatty read the wrong winner. So when he read La La Land for best picture winner of the Oscars, and it was actually Moonlight and that sent us off into another trajectory. And I, the worst timeline as my husband calls it, but he said basically theorize that we're stuck at in time more because we're stuck in 2016 because Trump is stuck in 2016.

He acts the same way. Like he never took on the office. He never, you know, became presidential. He just stayed himself. And now even more, I think is they try to play out this well, let's just do what worked in 2016. Let's let's really some emails. Uh, let's get an investigation from the FBI. Let's do the rallies.

Like he, they really are just. Playing trying to play this out. And I thought, yeah, that's why we all still feel so traumatized because he has such a death grip on the coverage and the way that he just floods the field with chaos, like we were never really able to like move through the steps of grief or like [00:20:00] healing or anything.

Like we're stuck in this very traumatic moment. I think you're right. I don't think that, you know, we're truly stuck. And I think, I feel as I watch all this early voting movement and listening to people talk about how they're, they're checking in for the first time. And I felt some of that in 2018, but it is this way of which he is so chaotic that it keeps us in that, in that place where we all felt so lost. And so. Scared and so traumatized.

Beth: [00:20:35] But again, I go back, everybody's out there, voting people are making their voices, heard you all sending us your voting pictures. Please don't ever stop. I want us to keep voting forever, just so you keep sending us those pictures because it gives me such visceral encouragement in what feels like a dark time.

And Sarah, you have something to share with us as well. That will give people, I think some encouragement and in a dark time.

Sarah: [00:20:57] Yes. I'm so excited to share [00:21:00] this from A'shanti Gholar, who is the director of Emerge. You know, I went through Emerge training. It was incredibly beneficial for me and talk about hope giving, being a network with all these women that want to run for office.

And I thought  A'shanti's answer to my question would give you guys a lot of hope. And if you want to hear the whole interview, you can go over to our Patreon page.

A'shanti Gholar: [00:21:23] The skills are already there. What we do at Emerge is hone them. We demystify the process of running for office. So don't think that you don't have an interview because you do.

And we see that in other women. Think about it. We see so many things that other women and those women see the same things at us. So when they're telling us. I see you. And I know you can do this. That means a lot coming from other women. I'm sitting in my position right now as the president of Emerge because of [00:22:00] other women who saw things in me that I didn't see myself and lifted me up.

So we have to be. That first person who encourages them and lets them know that they're going to have that support. That they absolutely can do this. You're going to hear the other things about, well, did I go to the right school? And what about my family? And, Oh, you know, there's that thing I did in college.

Look at the fool who is sitting in the white house. If he could be president, you can be on the city council. You can be on the school board. You could be the mayor. You could be at the state house. We need that authentic, relatable leadership in office. And right now we need servant leadership. People who want to run to serve their community, not get things out of their [00:23:00] community to make it better for them. And those are the women who are listening to this podcast.

Those are the women who you need to talk to, to run for office because this is how we make the change. It starts with us. Four thousand Emerge alums. All of that started with a conversation, saying you need to run for office.

Beth: [00:23:22] Next up, we are going to answer a question that we're getting a lot, which is I understand well why you're voting against Donald Trump, please help me understand why you're voting for Joe Biden. So why Joe Biden? Next up

[00:24:00] Sarah: [00:24:20] Beth. I'm tempted to make my entire case to our listeners as just go listen to the Brené Brown interview with Joe Biden, man. It's so good. It's so good. You guys have to listen to it.

Beth: [00:24:34] I thought it was a good interview to you. I also thought that his talk with Pod Save America was encouraging. I think he's doing good one-on-one interviews and it really bugs me that people continue to say like, well, he's hiding.

Um, I don't think so. I mean, he's answering questions and he's answering questions in lots of formats that previous presidents haven't answered questions. And I think a podcast is a really hard place to hide if you [00:25:00] don't want to be pressed on important policy points. So I'm happy with what he's doing.

And I think the Brené Brown conversation gives you a sense of who he is. As a human being and the Pod Save America conversation gives you a sense of what he intends to do as soon as he gets into office. And that's a nice coupling.

Sarah: [00:25:17] Yeah. Well, and here's the other thing let's, let's address some of the criticisms of Joe Biden before we get into some of the policy stuff.

And I think, you know what you hear a lot. And I think this is particularly perpetuated by the Trump campaign that he's senile and that he can't. You know, he's just all over the place and something's wrong with him. I think that terribly backfired, um, with senior voters who didn't want to be acute, didn't want to watch one of their own being accussed of being senile now for what it's worth.

But when I was listening to him on Brené Brown and Pod Save America. And it sounds so different from him in the debates. And I have been formulating this theory for a while that the presence of his stutter as a child and even some into adulthood [00:26:00] has really affected him and how he not only presents in debates, but how he, how he interacts with people.

So with the debates, I thought. Hold on. I can test this theory out. Like I can, he's been in, he's run for president two times. I can go back and look at debates. And so I went back and looked at the 2007 presidential debate for the democratic primary. It was him and Hillary and Obama and John Edwards felt like it was from a different universe, but.

His answers don't sound that the way he answers does not sound that different than the debates now, like he is not as polished or as slick as Hillary or Obama or John Edwards. And he does a lot of ums and you can hear him like work through the hesitations. And I thought, dang, I don't think any of this has to do with age.

I think it all has to do with the nerves of being in a high pressure environment, like the debate and the stutter. I think that one of the. You know, there's the article that talks about his history with the stutter that came out early in the democratic primary we'll link to it in the show notes. It's absolutely fantastic.

But I [00:27:00] do think that that is really key to understanding him and really reveal the cruelty. And the just lack of kindness and a lot of the attacks,

Beth: [00:27:12] there is a famous story about orchestras wanting to figure out gender imbalances and starting to do blind auditions where musicians would be behind a curtain or something.

And people could just listen to the music and make decisions that way. I wish we had a version of that for presidential elections. I think the closest that we can get to it is reading transcripts of candidates remarks, even in the debates, just reading the transcripts. And if you do that side by side, you just read the words, spoken by these two candidates, neither of them speak in poetry, but it's not comparable.

If you're looking for coherence of thought, And coherence of expression of thought, it's not [00:28:00] comparable. If you read the words. And I do that often, it helps me think about what was really said and kind of get past some of my own biases. I get really tripped up by people's presentation because there are styles that I find very off-putting.

So reading the words helps me. Cut through that a lot. And I think if you're struggling with people in your life who have that accusation about Joe Biden, it can be put to rest by reading the words. You still might not like what he has to say, but I don't think that you can honestly. Determined that there's some kind of cognitive issue if you really read through what he's talking about.

Sarah: [00:28:35] And then I think another really common criticism of Joe Biden is on the spectrum of either he's just creepy too. He also has been accused of sexual assault. Okay. So let's talk about this. This is hard, you know, Both you and I had real problems with this particular storyline in the democratic primary.

[00:29:00] And I think that let's start with the credible and numerous people who came forward and said that his, I don't know a better word for it. Handsiness. Made them feel incredibly uncomfortable. Then during the primary, he came out, he apologized, he said that he had a lot to learn, but we talked about during the primary that he felt he still felt very defensive about it and that we had concerns.

So I think my, I had a real aha moment about this. During the democratic convention, there was a moment during the democratic convention that they were just showing B roll of Joe Biden and a young man in his early twenties comes up to Joe Biden and says, I'm a DACA recipient. And Joe Biden that now that I've seen it, I watched four.

He took both hands out in front of him and put them on both sides of the man's face. Like that was his immediate response. Just. Hands out. You see it in the ad. They recently did with the son of a victim at the [00:30:00] Parkland shooting and the, the way this child approached Joe Biden at the funeral and how Joe Biden just envelops them.

My theory. Is that also because of the stutter I think he really depends on physicality in those moments. I think that he, now some of this is, you know, when he's like at swearing ins and they're not hyper emotional moments, but I do think that he, because if, because of the stutter seems to depend a lot on physicality to connect with people, to convey what he's feeling, to just be in the moment.

And, you know, the more I watch him and the more I see him on, in like B roll and even at previous parts of his career, that seems to be a pattern. And she just seems to be, and I think that inevitably, if you are a incredibly physical person, if you are a fifth generation, then yeah, I think that th that you could bump up against people that, that makes them uncomfortable.

And so I just, I just think that the stuttering for me has [00:31:00] unlocked a lot of. Even the criticisms I've had about him in the past. And it's really helped me to understand him on a deeper, more human level than sort of the two dimensional characters. We so often have a politics.

Beth: [00:31:13] It is not that I want to be in any way dismissive of this topic. So please don't interpret my remarks in that category. I have feelings about this. I think it's hard. I think it's sad that it's a question that we have to ask. And also my framework here is that I cannot know everything about anyone going into public office. I cannot understand what everyone's experiences have been as it relates, particularly to tear a read.

I have read everything. I can get my hands on about that story. And I do not have any sense of certainty about what happens one way or the other. What I know is that I [00:32:00] also don't believe in 2020, if there were ways to bolster the credibility of that story, we would be reading them. And if there were more people who had been victimized, I believe they would come forward.

I believe in the work of the me too movement in opening doors enough that I think someone else would have come forward if this had happened before. And I believe that people who are systematic abusers typically have a pattern that doesn't mean I'm ruling out that exactly what Tara Reed said happened, happened.

I'm not, and I have trouble with that. That's hard for me. But again, when I look at the two choices in front of me and I am aware that other people are running for president, of course I am. And of course I've looked at their platforms in those people, but I look at the reality of American structures. The design of our systems.

And the truth of the matter is Joe Biden or Donald Trump will be the next [00:33:00] president. And that is the choice facing me. And the choice I care even more about is the choice as an American citizen, to try to move our system in a direction that is sustainable. And I believe two things, I believe that voting for Donald Trump destabilizes that system even further.

And I believe this year, that voting third party could destabilize that system even farther by making this elections results, muddled. And I don't want either one of those things. And so again, I am not trying to be dismissive of this topic. I have done the most research I can on it. I have set and thought through it.

I am trying in every available place to look at the character of these two men, honestly, and openly. And while again, I would not have chosen to be here with these two choices. These are the two choices we have and. My choice is clear on this issue. And I really struggle honestly, [00:34:00] to take that criticism from people who support this president seriously, given the number and gravity of allegations against this president.

I also struggled to take the coherence argument seriously from people who support this president, given the way that he speaks in his inability to hang in a policy conversation. So there is a very, I'm rubber you're glue undertone to all these discussions that bothers me, but more than that, where it gets serious and where there are real questions for me, I just have to be honest about what my choices are and how I'm going to participate in making those choices.

Sarah: [00:34:33] Yeah. I think there's a sense that with the me too movement, it was the stories came out and then we were in, then we all believed women and that's the narrative. And I think that really, really. Um, undercuts the incredibly important role that journalism played in the me too movement. And how far these people went to get people on the record to get more than one story, to get, to, to establish the pattern [00:35:00] of abuse.

That really is the story of the me too movement. And I think that I have to listen to, you know, I listened to journalists. That's what, who led me to, and I think led our country to this point where we face this problem. And so I'm going to listen to them again. And I think the reason that you don't continue to see tear read, or why that story didn't sustain itself is because the journalist, I know we covered in detail, uh, one particular story that, um, we'll link in the show notes too from box.

That was like, I tried so hard to find. Other women or to, to make sure I was covering all my bases, that if this was true, I wanted to make sure that we gave it every chance humanly possible. And like you said, like we can't say with 100% certainty, this isn't true, but you know, some of the story of 2020 is learning to trust experts and learning to trust people who go out there and do the work.

And not saying that we all have to figure it out our individual selves, and that's what I'm trying to do this. And so I think there is a [00:36:00] sense that like, Well, the attacks are on Joe Biden, that he is, you know, incoherent, or he has some sort of medical problem or that, that he, you know, is creepy or whatever.

They're not sticking. So what else do we have? So I think that, you know, and I almost can like feel these waves of it coming across social media. I felt like, you know, there was definitely a wave of like, Abortion rhetoric that in particular, you know, Joseph Trojan, horse and CommonWell is going to come in and she's so radical.

And she, you know, and we, we've definitely talked about that a few weeks ago on the show, this sort of the narrative surrounding abortion and reproductive rights and, you know, what are the real policy stances, but that's like, I feel like that was like the first boogeyman that came. Democrats want to kill babies.

That's the first one. And there Democrats, we can't vote for them. And now I feel this other wave coming because that one, I don't think worked in the way that they wanted to. And so now it's [00:37:00] becoming, well, Democrats are socialists and they're going to raise your taxes into oblivion. I've gotten like three or four messages from my dad.

I'm hearing messages from all of you. It seems like the newest boogeyman that we're like, we're just going to keep throwing things at and see what sticks is Democrats are going to wave, raise your taxes. I got this crazy message from my dad that was basically like Joe Biden is going to raise social security and Joe Biden is going to do this.

And you're going to be looking at only taken like 39% of your take home pay. And I mean, it just gets more bizarre by the moment now. As we're about to get into Joe Biden has tax policy. And we'll talk about it. We cannot compare it to Donald Trump's tax policy proposals, because there is none, there is no tax policy.

There is no healthcare policy. As we covered at the front of the show, there is no approach to containing COVID-19. And so to me, it's like even the policy arguments are I'm rubber, you're glue. Your plan sucks, but I don't have one that even makes them more substantial. [00:38:00] Critiques of his policy infuriating to me,

Beth: [00:38:02] first thing I want to say about taxes is that Joe Biden cannot increase or reduce our taxes. Congress says that. So you've two different choices on your ballot, right? You could vote for Joe Biden to leave the executive branch of the United States government and not vote for Democrats in Congress.

If that's how you feel about it. I don't advise you to do that because of the reasons that we'll follow here, but. Joe Biden cannot raise your taxes. Like let's just foundationally begin there. Second thing. And Sarah, you made this point when we were kind of preparing to talk about this. We're not paying a lot in taxes right now compared to you.

A lot of this country's history. And I think we forget that the short version, and we'll put some resources in the show notes here, but Wars are really expensive. World war one and world war two caused our taxes to increase substantially. And what I've been thinking about looking at these charts is that in so many ways, [00:39:00] when we had Sean Mcphaden to talk about the new rules of war, he talked about how we are so stuck in a world war II mindset in terms of how we envision the military.

And I thought, Oh my gosh, I think we're stuck in the mindset of world war II taxes, because so much of the next. 30 40 50 years in politics. We're about bringing taxes down from that 70, 80, 90% income tax rate that had to be in effect during world war two. It kind of turned on a little light for me that like, of course we have these narratives that get stuck with us, even when the landscape has changed, the story hasn't changed yet.

Sarah: [00:39:41] Well, I think. Those incredibly high tax rates. Weren't just a response to expensive Wars. They were response to a very active role. The United States government took in our economy and particularly took in protecting the middle class and, and regulating and propping [00:40:00] up institutions like our public school systems, like our colleges and universities like our infrastructure.

I just think about how often I, especially in the national park systems, um, walk through a building. That was, you know, built with taxpayer money, huge, huge, huge pots of taxpayer money, um, in the thirties or in the sixties and how really enjoy those cabins or parks or trails or visitor centers, you know, and I, and I think I live in a County where there is a rural airport.

That is supported and propped up by taxpayer funds and the federal government that says that we use this money and we need a lot of it to protect, you know, protect parts of the country from their sort of structural or geographical weaknesses. There's a really great moment in Joe Biden's interview with pod save America, where he talks about that, where he says the [00:41:00] people on the West coast were like, why should I pay for your Amtrak?

And he said, well, why should my mom pay for your for the Hoover dam, because that's what we do in America. We have to use the money that we all put into the pot together to make sure that there's equity at the starting point, no matter what your, you know, associate's economic weaknesses, geographic, weakness, whatever that is.

And I think we use that money. We use the money collected from like literally a 90% income tax rate. That's what it was for over $400,000 in like 19. 56 90%. And you know, that's the story of Ronald Reagan, right? Ronald Reagan was an actor and his accountant basically said, there's not worth it for you to make another movie.

The entire amount of the movie that you get paid to do will go to the federal government and look. I get it. I think that's problematic, but the idea that we would just cut that out and not like slowly transition to a different type of tax system and slowly transition to a different type of government [00:42:00] and look out for the long-term consequences of.

Bottoming out that tax rate, you know, I think that's how we got to institutions that were crumbling under the way. You know, I think that we use that money for a lot of things and it wasn't just, uh, to pay for expensive Wars. It was to really protect the middle class and to use the power of the federal government, where the market isn't doing the job.

And I hope that we decide to do that again, like with childcare and with long-term care and lots of things that aren't probably ever going to be profitable with research and. You know, going to the moon and all these, these big projects and these big dreams that we have as a country, it takes money to do those things.

Beth: [00:42:39] Let's talk about Ronald Reagan for a second because Ronald Reagan's tax cuts involved cutting the corporate tax rate from 46% to 40%. We are talking with the Biden plan about moving the corporate tax rate from 21% to 28%. [00:43:00] That's a different world than 46 to 40. That's a different universe. So I talked about this a little bit on Instagram the other day, the theory of the case for most Republicans right now is supply side economics and specifically trickle down economics.

The idea that the more you cut taxes on businesses and wealthy individuals. The more, those individuals will take the money that they're saving and create new jobs and create more wealth in the country through investment and other businesses. That theory is based on what is called the Laffer curve. And the Laffer curve idea is that if you lower tax rates for corporations tonight, income earners, the benefits of that will in nor to everyone else in the form of better jobs.

But the Laffer curve supports this effect. Only when tax rates are in what it calls the prohibitive range of 50 to 90% outside of this range, the Laffer curve, like the proponents of this [00:44:00] idea originally would say that there, there isn't a positive effect of lowering the tax rates. If you're trying to grow the economy,

Sarah: [00:44:08] You know what that reminds me of that reminds me of the, all the great research on basically stop and frisk and pulling people over a lot that like the proponents of the strategy, where like, it works in very finite situations and we go, okay, let's do it everywhere.

Beth: [00:44:24] Right. And I think that's important because a lot of times we're just going, well, your theory sucks. No, you're 36. Well, like some theories have validity. But under certain circumstances, what circumstances are we in right now? And when we're talking about corporate tax rates in the 20 percents, what we find is the effect of a lot of research on trickle-down economics over time, which is that it increases.

Income inequality. It worsens that problem. So we don't really even know if Reagan's tax cuts made the biggest difference in rebounding from the recession, because at the same [00:45:00] time, he increased government spending by two and a half percent and triple the federal debt to support the cold war. So there was a lot going on.

We don't have like a pure test of that theory in the 40 percentage range. And then in the Bush era, same thing we were out of that range. They did cut taxes. It did help the economy a bit, but at the same time, the federal reserve lowered the federal funds interest rate. So again, monetary policy played a role, not just tax policy.

The best example of trickle down economics being tested in a more pure way has been in Kansas. And our listeners in Kansas at least would tell you that that has not gone well. The business community not. Putting more money into the state has left the education system and a lot of other public systems in Kansas in a world of hurt.

We do know between 1979 and 2005, this range of time when we've been like foot on the accelerator with cutting tax rates that after tax [00:46:00] household income has grown 6% for the bottom fifth of Americans. But the top fifth of Americans have seen their income increased by 80% and the top 1% has seen their income triple.

So instead of trickling down, prosperity has trickled up under this system. And that's why I think Joe Biden's plan is really not all that scary because he's not talking about tax rates in the 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 percentage points. He's talking about taking us back to where we were like. 2030 years ago, or just in 2016 and 15, for example, it's not even back that far.

Sarah: [00:46:42] Yeah. I would love to go 20, 30 years back to be honest with you, but I'll start there. And I think what's valuable about Joe Biden is not just the plan, but think about the life experiences he's had. He's been in Congress. He's been in Washington DC to watch all this play out. [00:47:00] He watched what happened. He watched what happened as these cuts came through and what happened to our systems, you know, and I think he's seen sort of the arguments for, well, should we, should we temper the approach?

You know, there's just a part of me and this is just my gut and I don't have any long rates to back this up or podcast interviews. But there is a part of me that feels like Joe Biden, the capability and the real possibility of doing big, amazing things for America and with America, because I just feel like his life experience at this point, like he's lived out so many of these different strategies and really the sort of pragmatic at the edges strategy.

That there is a part of me that wonders, like, is he going to go in and say, this is what America wants? You know? So I feel like all I've read recently is here's, America's agree about this on 60% where we, you know, we talk about us being polarized and that's true [00:48:00] to a certain extent, except for when you walk through some of the individual policy things and it's like 60%, 70%.

And I just wonder if this lifetime a political experience. Has the capacity to roll into a historical moment like this, and really upgrade our institutions and really see the possibility. One of my favorite things he said on the pod save America interview was, you know, Americans see problems as opportunities.

And I just feel like we are approaching a new era where Americans are ready to do. Big things for our systems that are crumbling in front of us to really roll up our sleeves and get to work. And he seems sort of uniquely suited for that type of historical moment. He, it's not like it's, like you said, back in the primaries day one, he's ready.

There's no learning curve for Joe Biden. [00:49:00] There's no. How much time do I need to spend, you know, Meaning relationships and creating relationships abroad much less within Congress. I am really excited about that

Beth: [00:49:11] for people, people who get scared when they hear about that transformational leadership, though.

In the numbers, it's not scary. The top income tax rate, this is people making over $400,000 a year would rise from 37% to 39.6%. So there may be the potential for transformational progress under a Biden administration at an individualized level. We're not talking about transformational tax rates. We're not even talking about transformational tax rate for corporations, 21 to 28%, that is not going to make or break the kind of corporations who have been really taking it.

Vantage of all that America has to offer without contributing much to America. His tax plan talks about changes to how [00:50:00] foreign profits of U S multinational corporations are taxed discouraging companies from offshoring production. So there are some of that job impact. There are lots of tax credits. So places where people would actually pay less in taxes to encourage green energy and housing there, some temporary tax credits, contemplating COVID relief.

So I went to the most conservative source. I could find to evaluate Joe Biden's tax plan. And I'm going to put this little summary in the show notes, but the American enterprise Institute, and you can read the whole report. This is a very conservative organization, but a thoughtful one and an honest one that I trust and American enterprises.

The cheat says on the whole. The Biden plan would increase taxes on average for the top 5% of households and reduce taxes on the bottom 95% of households. That is a conservative think tank saying this plan is really, really about getting more money from the very tip top income earners in the United States.

Overall, they think the [00:51:00] worst damage from this plane is a. Point one, 6% reduction of GDP over the next decade. But then in the second 20 years of this plan, we would see a 0.1, 9% increase in the GDP. And they think if this were to be our tax policy forever, you might see a small reduction of GDP in the longterm, less than 1%.

So. If you get excited about dreaming big, I'm so glad there's something for you in Joe Biden. If you do not and get scared by that, look at the numbers. They are not scary numbers.

Sarah: [00:51:34] Also encourage you not to be motivated by fear. You know, my dad sent me this thing that was like, well, prices are going to go up.

And there was a little bit of me that wanted to say, so what, like, do you see Americans right now? Really eaten up about the prices at Walmart. Like, I don't think that, that, like you said this before, too, that if we don't want to be, you know, [00:52:00] If globalism scares people to a certain extent, and we don't want to be dependent on China and we want a stronger American manufacturing base and a stronger American trade policy, then sometimes that will cost more.

And if we want institutions that aren't crumbling, that we feel like we can trust and depend on that might cost more too. And you know, the idea that we should. You know, what we push on this podcast so much is that we are voting beyond our own individual interests. We are voting with our community and our neighbors in mind.

And so while, you know, rising costs do concern me. For some of my neighbors. And I know that is a nut. That is an incredibly motivating thing in the middle of a recession when people have lost their, their jobs, the idea that it would be a boogeyman to motivate, you know, every voter as if the only thing that matters in the middle of a global pandemic and a racial reckoning is if they're the cost at Walmart are higher and also the costs are already higher because of the pandemic.

You know, the cost of food is [00:53:00] already going up. And the answer is not well, what can we, you know, I feel like that's such a to drop the price to single-handedly focus on that instead of ask, well, if that is a problem for you or for your neighbors, what else can we do besides just making everything be as cheap as humanly possible?

What can we do to actually raise incomes? What can we do to lessen the impact of. Expensive housing, expensive healthcare, expensive childcare on the average American, instead of saying, well, all we want to do is make sure everything's as cheap as possible.

Beth: [00:53:33] Yeah. I think with tax policy, the question is what's the benefit on the other side of this, or what's the cost on the other side of this?

And I think right now the truth is we have lowered the tax rates to the point where it is increasing the cost of living for individual Americans. Yeah, and that's backwards. That's not what tax, the point of pooling our money together is to make life better for office. And that I think that's not happening right now.

[00:54:00] So that's taxes. I have a similar feeling about this oil kerfuffle that dusted up after the debate. I don't think it should be surprising to anyone to hear any politician of any party. Talk about a gradual transition away from oil. I also think. Joe Biden and everyone who talks about oil, including oil industry executives, understand that we cannot primarily rely on oil for the rest of time.

And also that we're not going to cut oil off tomorrow. That oil is going to be around a long time as a source of fuel that we know how to use and that we can rely on as we're learning to use other types of fuel. And as other types of fuel are less predictable. And so. To me. I thought this quote from the New York times really summed it up.

They were talking to oil industry executives about this, and it says what ultimately matters to the industry is not whether there would be an energy transition, but how [00:55:00] rapid it would be. And whether companies would be allowed to exploit oil and gas reserves by offsetting their environmental impact by capturing and storing greenhouse gas emissions, the oil industry.

Did not freak out as much as individual Americans who work in the oil industry, freaked out about those remarks. And that's understandable, but I want us to all get on the same page about this and have a more honest conversation. Because again, when you hear the president saying things like, well, Joe, Biden's gonna end fracking Joe Biden.

Can't in fracking by himself. We don't live in that kind of country, you know, But he can lead a coordinated effort where both the government and the industry come to the table and try to figure out how do we do better here and how do we do better in a way that helps our workers. And that also helps our environment that also pays attention to our place in the world, in terms of both trade and national security, there are a million dimensions to this problem.

I would rather have leadership around it than not.

Sarah: [00:55:58] I totally [00:56:00] agree with you. And I think that. You know, leadership from Joe Biden. And this was really the central theme of Renee Brown's podcast. He sees leadership is leadership like with and through instead of power over that, this is about his view of.

Americans that he will represent every American, um, no matter whether they voted for him or not, which is not something we have ever heard from Donald Trump. I have never once for one single day of this presidency felt represented never once. And I know that we have a long road to go and some Americans will never get there.

But I do think that Joe Biden does his best in. Thought word and deed to reach out to those who don't agree with him and, and help them understand that he [00:57:00] will represent them. And he will work for the best interests, whether they vote for him or not. And I also feel like back to this theme of our institutions and the pressure and the tension, we all feel within them.

Like it's gonna be. A long road and it's going to be a group project. And I hear that in his speeches and his interviews, I hear this sense of. We have huge work to do as Americans. And I'm just trying to figure it, figure out how to get us all there. I just want to help everybody do their work, contribute their part, shore up our institutions, rebuild our infrastructure, like hear from him, this, this belief that, and I don't know if it is his age and I don't know if it is the sense of like, he will most likely only have one term and he, you know, he describes himself as transitional leadership.

But this sense of [00:58:00] I've lived a long life. I've done this for a long time. I can bring the skills to help us get to this new phase, to bridge the gap, to rebuild our relationships, to build our, rebuild our relationship with one another. And I just hear that in his words, I feel like it's a calling. I feel like he.

He feels called to this particular moment. And it's, you know, it's kind of fascinating to look back on his life and see how many times he's won and see all the things that he's overcome both personally and professionally. I think that informs everything and it's, I definitely hear it in the way that he talks that he kind of feels called to this moment of history.

And I think it is a very important moment in our countries. History and I, I don't know. I just think it's not just about that. He's not Donald Trump. I do think that he is uniquely suited to lead us in this moment.

Beth: [00:58:52] So I made a little list of what I'm voting for and I, I am coming to respect a lot about Joe Biden [00:59:00] personally.

I think I'm less far down that path than you are Sarah. But my list looks like a government staffed based on people's value, not their partisan or individual loyalty. There are so many stories right now about the Trump administration and loyalty test and wanting to hire people based on loyalty, but instead of based on qualification and meanwhile, Joe Biden has already assembled.

Advisers from multiple philosophical backgrounds, including lots and lots of people who have worked in previous Bush administration

Sarah: [00:59:29] all the way to his press secretary who worked for Bernie Sanders.

Beth: [00:59:33] That's a good sign. I mean, I think there is a potential team of rivals thing. People get so mad on Twitter when you hear John K six being floated for a cabinet position.

But look, the fact that that discussion is on the table tells you something about. His character and his leadership style. And that's a big contrast to what we're living through right now. So I'm voting for that. I'm voting for a more cooperative foreign policy. I'm linking to something from the council for foreign relations that I urge you to read.

If you don't feel like you have a handle on what [01:00:00] Joe Biden's foreign policy looks like, but I think he has a robust and in-depth understanding of foreign policy. And I would like to have that in our president. More than that though, I believe. In his sense that America must lead in the world and that we must lead in the world, not by withdrawal, but by engagement.

And I agree with that. There are lots of details behind that. They get really messy, right. But that philosophy, I think I understand what his philosophy is and I prefer it to Donald Trump's. I think this economic policy of investment is important even where I would not have preferred that at many moments in my life.

With the global pandemic. I do not see a way forward that doesn't involve lots and lots of federal investment. I just don't see it. I would love to tell you there was another answer. The market can not handle this one. I would like to see a functioning Congress. And I think Joe Biden well understands how the United States Congress functions.

And it is a [01:01:00] different ball game than when he sat in that body. But there are lots of people who said in that body with him who are still there and who still hold a lot of influence. And I think he could make a difference there. And I also think he's working really hard to do outreach to the new generation in Congress.

Sarah: [01:01:16] Well, and think about this until you said that just now we haven't seen a president. With this level of congressional experience since LBJ, you didn't have any, but I mean, I think Barack Obama was the first Senator in so long and he had not been there that long. I mean, maybe Gerald Ford, but that level of congressional experience when we're also frustrated with the fact that Congress is not functioning, is.

Is key.

Beth: [01:01:48] And the last thing I want to vote for is, and this is a little bit of a double edge sword, but I want to vote for the emergence of a healthy, conservative party. [01:02:00] And I think that requires a distinctive repudiation of the past four years. And there's a Washington post editorial that I'll link here.

That is the conservative case for Biden. And it basically says, look is everything Joe Biden going to do? And encourage Congress to do are all his policies, my cup of tea. Nope. But there will not be conservative thought in this country. There will only be naked populism or racism or xenophobia, or, uh, people looking for a theocracy or an authoritarianism where we're going down a path where there isn't.

A center of gravity for actual conservative thought around how the federal government functions and what our society should look like. And even where I have gotten pretty far away from that kind of thought in my own life. And I don't know that I'll ever go back. I don't, I want there to be someone making that case and making it from a place of integrity.

And [01:03:00] that's why I'm going to vote. As I said with an exclamation Mark up and down the ballot for Democrats, because I want the Republican party to know that they're not it. And I want there to be space for good leadership that calms the waters enough for something healthier to emerge.

Sarah: [01:03:16] When I think about the real reason I'm voting for Joe Biden, I agree with everything you said down to the reform of a healthy, conservative party. I've said before, and I'll say it again. Our democracy depends on at least maybe more, two healthy parties. I don't want this to become a one party system. I don't think that's, but I think really what it comes down to for me is empathy.

 Team of Rivals is one of my all-time most favorite books. And the central thesis is that Abraham Lincoln's greatest political gift was empathy. He could empathize with those who disagreed with him in his [01:04:00] party, across the aisle, citizens who didn't vote for him, soldiers in the field, you know, it's, it's just a central theme in the book and it is one of the reasons I didn't hesitate when somebody in the meet greet line said, who would you want to interview?

And I said, ABR from history. And I said, Abraham Lincoln, because I think that's so powerful. And I see that in Joe Biden. I see that empathy. The, you know, whether it's his incredibly long career in politics, whether it's the early tragedy in his life of losing his daughter and his wife, and then losing another child.

I, I don't know what it is. I don't know the man personally, but I think his empathy is hard to deny and after living for four years, with someone who treats everything as a transaction and cares about almost nothing besides himself, I'm so ready for that. I'm ready for [01:05:00] heart. I'm ready for healing. I'm ready for a leader who recognizes people's pain, whether it suits their political purposes or not.

I don't think that Joe Biden is a Saint. I don't think that think that he'll face the same struggles or struggles we can't possibly anticipate right now, but I do see that heart and I think it is something that America very much needs.

Beth: [01:05:26] I think we should give the last word on this to our beloved listener Parks who has kindly recorded his why Biden for us.

So the next voice you hear will be from Parks.

Parks: [01:05:39] I am voting Biden Harris, because as a sexual assault survivor, I'm still traumatized that Kavanaugh holds a seat on the Supreme court. I'm voting Biden Harris because after living through a school shooting, we need a leader who does not invoke violence against their neighbors. I'm voting Biden Harris because the president should value the lives of all Americans, not just the ones [01:06:00] who agree with them.

I am voting Biden Harris, because love is the most powerful force and trans lives shouldn't be valued and not politicized. I'm voting Biden Harris because families should not be a weapon used against a debate opponent and Biden knows that loving an addict is one of the hardest things you can do.

Sarah: [01:06:26] Beth. What are you thinking about outside politics?

Beth: [01:06:29] I am working to re-imagine the holidays, which is not going to be a normal October through December. That is difficult in a lot of ways, but I'm trying to be excited about it and try to be trying to be more creative and to do what the lazy genius talks about all the time and like, thinking about what matters to me and what doesn't matter to me.

So I thought I would share a little bit about what I have going on so far. We have decided that we are not going to trick or treat. After a lot of thought, I've spent a lot of time listening to governor Andy Bashir [01:07:00] talk about this, I've read the CDC stuff. It's hard. We're not going to trick r treat. So our little bubble of families where our kids play together and we're doing some school together is going to instead do kind of a Halloween scavenger hunt.

The format is basically some candy maniac has stolen Halloween and you guys have to put it back together. And so I've kind of written up a little outline. Basically, I'm taking all the costumes of the kids in our group, and there is one challenge that centered on that kid's costume. So that's kind of like an Avengers approach, except that we have everything from a goat to Harry Potter characters.

And so I just Googled party games. Like if you were having a birthday party theme around each of these kids and came up with a little, a little challenge, they all have to do together. And as they go around the little challenges they get to earn their treat bags and we'll have the bags individually labeled for the kids.

And [01:08:00] so it basically lets them trick or treat, but through playing games with our, with our tiny little bubble in a controlled environment, and I feel good about it. I'm excited. It's fun. It's going to be a lot of work, but I have awesome friends who are the moms of these kids and they're such good kids. And I feel, I feel good about it.

Sarah: [01:08:18] We are trick-or-treating where I live. We're doing a Halloween parade for the littles in our neighborhood early in the evening. And then I think most everybody is doing distance. So we are building a candy shoot,

Beth: [01:08:30] which I am

Sarah: [01:08:31] super excited about. I know some people are just going to put out the bowls.

I think a couple of people might be doing the spider webs where you just put the candy in the spider web, but I am really excited about that. I have really been focusing on Christmas because it's my favorite time of year. And, um, I'm actually, I was really excited about like less outside events, although I'm very sad about not having the advent walk and I'm realizing like, I'm probably not being honest with myself [01:09:00] about how many of the community events I'm going to miss.

Then I had a small panic attack because I realized, Oh my goodness, we're not going to be able to visit Santa. Are we, are we going to have to do like a zoom call with Santa? I'm not excited about that, especially because my third child is five and he's creeping up to the end of Santa's years. And I'm really sad about that.

And I really want one more good visit with Santa, but I'm trying to hold it loosely. I've channeled all of that into advent calendars because they're another favorite part of my holiday. And I thought, well, I'm not going to be spending any money on my holiday party. So I might as well buy every advent calendar known to man.

So we have Lego advent calendars. There's a really cool Disney story book calendar. And then let me tell you what else I did. I bought myself a bunch of advent calendars because I can. And so I bought a Sephora advent calendar and a hot tea advent calendar and a chocolate advent calendar. And I will make no apologies for it.

Cause I'm super excited. And I'm hoping that we'll add some, a little bit of [01:10:00] fun to my long days in Christmas with hopefully with not a lot to, well, not hopefully, but with probably not a lot of outside excitement. So I'm trying to bring that inside excitement and I will put link to all the advent calendars in the show notes that I've purchased, but I'm trying to like figure out how to cozy up for the holidays and still have some anticipation, even though it doesn't look like we're going to be going anywhere.

Beth: [01:10:27] My family is not going to gather for Thanksgiving. And so we are going to do a zoom call and our awesome, amazing listener Katie has written a trivia game for us to do as a family on Thanksgiving. Katie is going to make that available to other people in the Pantsuit Politics community. So that will be in our email on Friday and probably in Friday show notes.

If you two would like a family trivia game created by Katie, I'm really excited about it. Customized so that we're ready to do it on zoom. Um, so that's going to be Thanksgiving. I'm going to cook a lot here for us and one of the families that's [01:11:00] in our bubble and I'm excited about having a day of just lots of cooking and trying to make a really cozy fun small gathering Christmas.

 I have started shopping and actually shipping gifts because I am worried that that's going to be a thing that's going to be very difficult. And I think a lot about all of the poor Amazon and FedEx and UPS and USPS workers out there. So where I'm trying to get ahead of that, my family has not made a decision yet my extended family on whether we're going to gather for Christmas.

So I'm not quite as far down the path and thinking about that one, but I know Halloween and Thanksgiving are going to be dramatically different this year. And I'm trying to just have fun thinking about how can we enjoy these days anyway. So if y'all have more suggestions, totally open to those, you, we don't have to be individually responsible for figuring this stuff out.

We can work on it together in community too. We can follow along with our continued discussions on Instagram and Twitter. We'll be back in your ears on Friday. Thank you so [01:12:00] much for giving us your time today until then keep it nuanced, y'all.

Alise Napp3 Comments