How'd That Hold Up?

Topics Discussed

  • How’d that hold up?

    • Reflecting on Beth’s 2021 Political Resolutions

    • Reflecting on Sarah’s 2021 Political Resolutions

  • What our 2021 Resolutions give us to think about in 2022

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Episode Resources

Transcript

Sarah [00:00:00] I don't know what your word was. What was your word for 2021? 

Beth [00:00:03] You know what? Present. 

Sarah [00:00:07] [Laughs] I wish everybody could have seen your face. 

Beth [00:00:09] It was a low bar to just be here, just show up for it. And I feel like I cleared that very low bar most, most of the time. Maybe like a C+ on it. I just felt really beat up by 2020, you know? And I think that we started the year in a place that also made me feel pretty despondent. And so just continuing to show up was about all I could muster this year. But I do feel like I did that. I mean, I'm here. I made it through. 

Sarah [00:00:46] This is Sarah Stewart Holland. 

Beth [00:00:47] And this is Beth Silvers. 

Sarah [00:00:49] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. 

Sarah [00:01:05] Hello, everyone. Welcome to a very special week here at Pantsuit Politics. As we head into the holidays, we thought we'd do a little wrap up. We're going to the best of on Friday, but today we're going to revisit our political resolutions from the beginning of the year. So it's hard. It's hard to revisit those resolutions Beth. 

Beth [00:01:25] It's a little bit painful. These retrospectives, especially when you go back and listen and think about everything that unfolded after you recorded something. This is the danger, though, of live reacting to things on the internet and leaving it there to the things of already after life has moved on. But we're going to do it. 

Sarah [00:01:44] Well before we get to our political resolutions. Please follow us on social media. We're probably going to be doing a little looking back there as well, asking to hear your wrap ups, what you're thinking about as the year comes to an end so far on Instagram. We also have a Facebook Pantsuit Politics gathering place, if Facebook is more your jam and of course, we're on Twitter as well. Next up, revisiting our political resolutions. 

Sarah [00:02:17] Beth, let's talk about your political resolutions, and let's talk about that, we issued these political resolutions pre January 6th. 

Beth [00:02:25] I went back to listen and just realizing that right after we did this episode, January 6th happened, it made me feel very naive. And you know, I had a lot of love for the pre January 6th, Beth.

Sarah [00:02:39] Blessed. I thought some of the things you said were very prescient like you were talking about. You want to have less wishful thinking, like you want to be really realistic about our institutions. And I don't know. I think that, you know, even considering the massive shock of January 6th, I don't know. I looked back over your political resolutions and thought, this seems fair. It seems fair. It seems like those were going to serve you well post January 6th. Did they serve you well post January 6th? 

Beth [00:03:05] Well, I think getting real about what can and cannot happen was probably a good prelude to January 6th, because that was my top one that I wanted to stop adhering so tightly in my own mind to what I believe seemed possible. Like I can think because something seems right that it should just hold. Yeah, and it doesn't always hold and the pieces of it that hold hold in a really fragile way. And I think that January 6th was a real stress test of of that resolution for me and lots of things in our government and then followed by that, I said that I wanted to really uphold the idea of representative government that they're going to be lots of people with lots of perspectives and they are not alone. 

Sarah [00:03:49] And there I think that ages well, I mean, we definitely are valuing our representative democracy even more post January 6th. I think the problem is as we learn more and more about the roles of our congressional members in the activities surrounding January 6th, how are you feeling? As it probably is a good question. How are you? If we if it comes out in 2022, that members of Congress participated, helped plan January 6th, how do you feel about them and their constituents? 

Beth [00:04:24] I think it's different questions for me in terms of how I feel about them versus their constituents because how I feel about their constituents will be decided at the ballot box, right? If if it comes out that members of Congress were involved in planning January 6th and those members are reelected. Oh, that's tough. 

Sarah [00:04:43] That's a tough moment for representative democracy. 

Beth [00:04:45] Because representative democracy. In the context of our republic still presupposes that we all do value something together. Not that it's just a pure counting contest, right? That there are some fundamental agreements that we're all adhering to together. And we're getting like real bargain basement on what those fundamental agreements look like. 

Sarah [00:05:12] I'm not sure what they are. I'm not sure I'm struggling with them. I think there are some members of our country that if we sat down across the table and we were trying to like, just come to the basic, I always go, I always lean on like, we want better for our kids. Everybody wants better for their kids, right? Surely we could agree on that. 

Beth [00:05:27] But better for our kids. Meaning what? Like, does that mean that we continue to have a functioning Congress and a peaceful transition of power, for example? I mean, we're we're struggling with some of those fundamentals. I think it has been important for me to, you know, Stephen Sondheim passed away recently, and I love into the woods in a way that's difficult for me to describe. And I've been thinking a lot about the song You Are Not Alone, where he says, Honor the mistakes everybody makes one another's terrible mistakes. That has helped me some this year, just remembering they're not alone in their view of things. I'm not alone, in my view of things. There are lots of areas that we are just going to have to keep negotiating among ourselves. I don't want to go to a raw power struggle place. I think that's why I have struggled with some of the conversations about big pieces of legislation and Senator Manchin and Senator Cinema because I don't want to be and just a counting situation. I don't think that's good for us. But I do think that a peaceful transition of power ought to be a pretty baseline standard that we all agree on. 

Sarah [00:06:38] And some of us don't. 

Beth [00:06:39] And some of us don't. 

Sarah [00:06:42] Your other resolution was finding the best question that you can. How are you feeling like you're doing on that one? 

Beth [00:06:48] You know what, pretty well. 

Sarah [00:06:50] You know what? I'm killing it. Thanks for asking. 

Beth [00:06:52] I think I did okay on that one. I do feel like I have tried to look through new lenses this year. I have tried to really. I've spent a lot less time on Twitter, so I've really tried to not let other people and voices define the scope of the issue for me and explore my own curiosity about something. My own sense of what matters about it. I think as a show, we've done a better job choosing topics that we think matter instead of the topics that are sort of in the zeitgeist for the moment. 

Sarah [00:07:23] You know, it gives you a lot more space to explore, not living in the middle of a five alarm fire all the time. 

Beth [00:07:28] MMhmm. That's true. 

Sarah [00:07:29] Either on Twitter or not. So I think that's I'm going to get into that my resolutions, but I think that's part of it is just there's just more space. There's just there's more space even in the middle of a pandemic, more space to ask questions to think, to plan and be strategic and look bigger picture and and think about five months, five years down the road as opposed to the next five minutes. 

Beth [00:07:53] And I mean, I think with COVID, I have tried to stay very curious. Now they're going to be people who disagree with that because I have been in favor of people getting vaccinated. But I also hope that I have been pretty open minded about even the efficacy of the vaccines for certain purposes and lengths of time, and I just want to ask good questions. My current question about the vaccine is like, what do we know about reinfection and long COVID? I'm not. I'm delighted that I got it. I still think it's a miracle. I would just like more information about that. You know, so I have I am trying to stay in a really interrogative posture. How do you think I've done on that? 

Sarah [00:08:35] I don't know, I think you always ask good questions, I think, and I do. Specifically, the first one, I do feel like there's been a lot of growth of like, well, just because I see this as the right way to head like doesn't mean that that's available to us. I definitely think you've come a long way on that. I always felt sort of like in a more cynical posture than you because I've always been like you, but it sounds great. It's never going to happen. And I don't want to be cynical. And I think we've both bridged the gap between that of saying, like, we don't want to be cyni... we're not going to cynicism. But, you know, a big aspect of giving grace is just acknowledging the reality on the ground for different people, including yourself. 

Beth [00:09:14] Well, I think there's a time component to that. 

Sarah [00:09:17] Yeah. 

Beth [00:09:17] What is available right now is not what is always available. 

Sarah [00:09:21] Right. 

Beth [00:09:21] Because I want to keep this spirit of creativity, of recognizing that no like this is our country or our community or our deal. And eventually, there are things that I would like to see that are very different than what's happening today or that are a return to something that's maybe been lost right now in the moment. What is needed or what's available? I'm trying to get more realistic about that. 

Sarah [00:09:45] And some of what we named in that political resolutions episode, like how quickly things can change, how quickly things can shift. I mean, listen, we are sitting here in December. We have generational infrastructure bill. Let us not forget what an incredible achievement that is, how amazing that is, how smart we were to do a summer series on infrastructure like, you know, I just I think some of the stuff we named like, we want to be able to be open minded and not get stuck in sort of generational outlook or outlook based on our own life experiences, but just be open to possibilities. I think we've done that. 

Beth [00:10:19] Well, and I think if you had asked me in January, what the economy would look like at this point in the year, I would have had a much more negative outlook than where we actually are. I mean, there are lots of things that have progressed beyond my imagination. 

Sarah [00:10:34] Yeah. 

Beth [00:10:34] And so I want to keep some space for that. 

Sarah [00:10:37] And I would not have thought that the oldest president in the United States history would have gotten us into some of this, this new frontier. Tell you what. 

Beth [00:10:43] It's true. 

Sarah [00:10:44] Definitely would have thought that in the primary of 2020. So how about you? Who knew? Who would have thunk it? Who'd thunk it? Jim Clyburn, apparently. All right, next up, we're going to talk about my resolutions. 

Beth [00:11:10] Sarah, your first resolution from January was trying to separate Donald Trump, the person from the consequences of Donald Trump, the president, and not turned from one because you're tired of the other, how do you think you've done? 

Sarah [00:11:23] I think I did very well. 

Beth [00:11:24] Think you did, too. 

Sarah [00:11:25] Thank you so much for recognizing my growth in this area. I'm not. I'm still listen. I still feel like I've continued to better understand. I think I've better understood sort of how the administration was functioning this year. Like, I don't need to be curious about his personality. I think I've I've got to be on it like, I get what's happened in there. I get the motivation. But I think I've learned a lot throughout this year just, you know, in the memoirs and the reporting and all this like about what was happening. I think we're only beginning to learn what happened around January 6th. But I think the administration overall, like I think I have a better understanding of how he how he feels, other people's decision making and what that meant. And I think I've like sort of face the hard reality of that just because he's out of here doesn't mean that we're done dealing with the repercussions of his decision making while in office. I think we're we're going to continue to deal with that. Yeah, I think as much as I really wanted to when we recorded that episode, just be like January 20th, we're done done with Trump. I mean, the events of January 6th made that impossible. Sadly so. And I think it's going to be true for 2022 that the events of January 6th are going to keep us kind of keep him ever present. And I think, you know, his social media platform and the whether or not he runs in 2024, like I know we were also ready. I can hear it in my voice when I go back and listen to that episode of just be done with him. But I think I've found the middle ground of like understanding he's still a reality, but not letting him absorb all of the energy and steer the conversation. I think America's done a good, better job of that. I think the media has done a better job of that. 

Beth [00:13:07] I think so, too, and at the same time, it is really hard to fully grasp how any president just changes the course of history, it sounds like such a trite thing when I say that, but down to, you know, we have this recent decision from a court saying Biden administration, you cannot just change your mind about the Remain in Mexico policy. 

Sarah [00:13:29] Mm-Hmm. 

Beth [00:13:29] We have a process and we have rules in place to make sure that we don't just swing wildly and policy from one administration to the next. The options around the withdrawal from Afghanistan were defined so significantly by negotiations that the Trump administration conducted. As critical as I have been at that operation, I also want to be understanding of how they weren't writing on a blank page on any issue. COVID, I'm sure that if they had been writing on a blank page, we'd be in a very different place than we are with COVID and I hope that seeing some of that helps us as we vote for new members of Congress to just take it seriously. You know, I heard so many people in 2016 talk about kind of what could it hurt to try a really different person in the Office of the Presidency? And I think that what we know now is that it can hurt a lot. 

Sarah [00:14:29] Yeah. 

Beth [00:14:30] And, and maybe that doesn't mean we never try it again. But can we try it more mindful of how long lasting it is, not just for years, and it is not just the things that you think about that are top of mind for you when you're voting that are going to be affected by the person who held that office and all of the people they hired and all the things all those people did that never hit your newspaper or the cable program that you watch that are written in ink and in our history. 

Sarah [00:15:00] Well, and I think now I just have to apply that same sort of principle to January 6th. 

Beth [00:15:05] Yeah. 

Sarah [00:15:05] There's a real like momentum around like we made it. We did. We got through it. Can we, can we stop talking about it now? Because it's just so scary. It's still really scary to think about how close we came. It's still really too scary to think that it could happen again. And so I just. And it's it's frustrating, and every time it comes up again, because the Republican Party just refuses to take it seriously or take responsibility for their role inside of it. But that doesn't change the fact that we still have to continue the investigation and we still have to, you know, ask the questions and get to the bottom of it, no matter how painful the answers are and no matter what the people in leadership's reaction is to those answers. You know, I think there's a part of like, Oh my gosh, what if we get this investigation and there are no consequences? I think that's a real fear for me. Like, what if we find out that members of Congress plan to overthrow an election and then they stay members of Congress? It's just really hard to think about. 

Beth [00:16:14] Well, your second resolution was staying focused on what COVID has revealed. Even though I want COVID to be over, I feel like there's a pattern here, things that you're just tired of. 

Sarah [00:16:22] I'm trying to integrate and not just trying to turn away, trying to integrate. 

Beth [00:16:26] And how is that going, you think? 

Sarah [00:16:28] I mean, COVID.... COVID's been a journey. Understatement of the decade. I mean, I think back to January and I think about, I think the hardest thing for me to look back on and think about with COVID is just how quickly I went from of course, COVID protects you from infection to like breakthrough infections are reality. That was a really hard turn in the summer and it came quickly I feel like. 

Beth [00:16:53] That the vaccines would protect you? 

Sarah [00:16:54] Yeah, yeah, we would go from like, I mean, I was passionate, like, how dare you even talk about vaccinated people spreading COVID? And in fairness to my early 2021 self, I mean, that was true for like the original strain, right? It's just Delta changed the game. And I mean, I see that quickly, and I'm kind of proud of myself for like not doubling down like Delta was different. I accepted that Delta was different. And but it's just it's hard to realize like how quickly those changes came and like that more could be on the horizon. Although I do I mean, I am hopeful. I'm feeling hopeful here in the at the end of the year of our lord 2021. Even with Omicron, I feel like, you know, it is. I can't live on to speak this out loud into a microphone for recording on the internet, but I do feel like it's it's likely that it will be less severe and it's going to, you know, COVID is going to follow the same path of evolution that a lot of viruses do and that eventually, you know, will be out of this. But just the impact. I think a lot about the impact on the public schools and how we're just going to be dealing with this for so, so long. And I still, you know, how I felt at the beginning of 2021 still holds true. I just feel like I really hope we take the lessons. I hope we make the changes. I hope we we realize that we, you know, in the same way, it was finally time to invest in infrastructure. It's finally time to invest in our teachers and our public schools. And it's finally time to take the hard lessons that we learned, and we'll continue to learn from COVID and put those lessons into practice. 

Beth [00:18:27] Our early conversations during the pandemic make me think about my less wishful thinking resolution connected to your stay focused on what it's revealed resolution because. I agree that I hope we take the lessons, I'm also coming to understand that our capacity to take those lessons and actually do things about them, it's just going to take a lot longer than I ever imagined, and it's probably more of a generational thing than a five year plan. 

Sarah [00:18:58] Yeah. Well, I will say this. I think a component of this was my resolution on extrapolation, which was my word for 2021, which might be my best word yet appears to be real with y'all. My word was gentle. I wore a bracelet that a listener generously made for us on my wrist until the threads wore off, at about November I had to stop wearing it. But it served me so well. The amount of gentleness I needed coming out of the Trump administration was enormous, and the amount of gentleness I needed toward, like the public school system and my kids and my husband and our community and you and just. It's like there's a little bit of me like maybe we should just stick with gentle, maybe gentle should just stay my word. It's not, we're going to announce our words next week, but gentle served me so, so well and I feel like the big thing I realize is like coming out of the Trump administration, like not being in that five alarm fire all the time. Like, there just was space for gentleness like the space felt gentle even in the midst of a pandemic, even in the midst of some really difficult moments as a country like the Afghanistan withdrawal. It just felt like there was oxygen and space to to be gentle with myself and to think through some things and to make some changes and, and just that word, mmm, just a feeling, but feeling real good about my choice for the word. I don't remember your word. Well, what was your word for 2021? You know... 

Beth [00:20:26] Present. 

Sarah [00:20:29] [Laughs] I wish everybody could have seen your face.

Beth [00:20:31] It was a low bar to just be here, just show up for it. And I feel like I cleared that very low bar most, most of the time. Maybe like a C+ on it. I just felt really beat up by 2020, you know? And I think that, we started the year in a place that also made me feel pretty despondent. And so just continuing to show up was about all I could muster this year. But I do feel like I did that. I mean, I'm here, I made it through. You know, I think that what presence has called me to you this year has been kind of related to the last political resolution that we both set, which are pretty similar. Like, I talked about valuing ideas more being less inclined to critique immediately and more to just be glad people are brainstorming possibilities. And your last resolution was about deep work, which I think is similar in a lot of ways, like really getting to what's underneath our reactions because, you know, most political commentary is by design, just thumbs up, thumbs down, and let's argue to the death about that. 

Sarah [00:21:39] Yeah. 

Beth [00:21:39] And I really have wanted out of that cycle. I've had the hardest time doing that. I think about matters of race and policing. And I think that what being present has called me to is just trying to recognize that as a kid, learning is linear, right? You have a concept, you build on that concept. There is a hierarchy. It's like the multiplication table, right? You start with one, you end with the 12th and everything builds that way. And I think what I've tried to learn and even observe about myself is I think about things that I didn't do a good job here on, you know, I think about some of our conversations about the summer of 2020. And I think there are things that I missed that were real and important to people that I glossed over as I was kind of chasing the idea of being a good ally and a person who's thinking seriously about race. I think what I'm coming to understand is, you know, this sounds obvious to you as I say it, but I feel it now that nothing in nature unfolds in that linear way that we set up education for kids. 

Sarah [00:22:49] Yeah. 

Beth [00:22:50] It is all a constant ebb and flow a revisiting an introduction of something, the reaction of all the other things in that ecosystem to whatever has been introduced. And I feel like being present helps me just kind of look around and say, OK, well there are a lot of voices on this topic, and everybody thinks they've got it. And they're ahead of the other voices in the hierarchy of things there are to learn. And I got to do a better job, just existing in the ecosystem and taking all of that in without trying to feel like I'm climbing a ladder toward it. More just I'm I'm adapting, I'm learning, I'm understanding the effect on the environment and figuring out what effect I want to have on the environment with it. 

Sarah [00:23:45] I felt like I've kind of learned a lot about that with the news environment this year because of the this is the reality. The news is different under the Biden administration. It's not like there aren't big problems still in the world, but it's not the just constant emotional manipulation that was the Trump administration. And so I'd like I've just kind of learned the ebbs and flows of the news. I've learned that like, if they're reporting on something that's about to happen, it means nothing happened. If we're talking about an upcoming summit or an upcoming trip or an upcoming trial or upcoming jury selection, that means nothing's happened on that day. I've learned the tricks. You know what I mean? Like, I see the signs now. I'm like, kind of like, I can see The Matrix. And it's nice. It's nice to realize. Like, Oh, no, it's it's not. It's not a dumpster fire every day. It just isn't. That is the reality. There is good news. There is progress. There are problems being solved. That is the reality, not just the United States, but human existence. And so like being able to sort of take a step back and like sort of see the patterns and realize that I don't have to participate in the patterns and that I can and can use this sort of this moments in the room breath oxygen available to me to, like, participate in a different way or to take that moment to ask a different question or to dig deeper on something, like God It's just been so nice, and I think we have more in front of us in twenty 2022. I really do like I don't think it's not that I don't mean think hard things won't happen, hard things that could surprise us, but I hope that we still sort of keep going, and I do for better or for worse feel. Some trust being rebuilt like just, we're not to the brick portion of the program yet. Like, we're probably just like laying the sand that we're gonna put the bricks on. But I feel the weight of that sand. I feel the weight of some institutions changing and adapting and getting better and people's participation in those institutions building just the tiniest amount of trust. I really feel that. 

Beth [00:25:52] I'm glad. I don't know if I'm there yet. I think a lot will depend for me on, what comes out of that January 6th investigation and what we do with it, and I don't mean that I have some kind of bloodlust about it, like I... 

Sarah [00:26:08] Blood lust is a word people would often apply to you. 

Beth [00:26:10] But well, and I worry a little bit that right now we're in a space where because there was so little accountability for so long around so many topics, we want it in any form, right? And I have no interest in participating in that. I don't want more people incarcerated for any reason. I don't. I just I want part of what I'm searching for right now in myself is a better construction of what justice means. But I do want truth and acknowledgment. And I want political accountability. And so for me, I think I need less time to rebuild trust with like the executive branch and I need more to rebuild trust with my fellow citizens that we are all aiming at something fundamental together. And I really we have an opportunity for that in 2022, and I hope that will take it. And I really want to resist the pull of political analysis that makes that just a numbers game where we're just predicting who's going to take the house and who's going to be the speaker. And you know, this is an hour plus 5 district or whatever. I want to come back from that in this space where we just get to be citizens and say, like, I'm looking around at my fellow citizens and I want to know how I can rebuild trust with you and how you can with me because I think we need it right now. 

Sarah [00:27:31] We look forward to rebuilding that trust with all of you slowly and our fellow citizens in 2022. We're going to share our best of on Friday. We have some episodes on Goal Setting and Our Political Resolutions for 2022 coming up next week. So we can't wait to share that with all of you. And until Friday, keep a nuanced ya'll. 

Beth [00:27:59] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.

Sarah Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Beth Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers (Read their own names)  Martha Bronitsky, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.

The Kriebs, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, Jared Minson, Emily Neesley, The Pentons, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sarah Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karin True, Onica Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Vilelli, Amy Whited.

Beth Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer, and Tim Miller.

Sarah [00:29:04] Um… [Noise in background] Oh, my goodness. So frustrating. Sorry, Simeon, we're in a podcast studio for what it's worth, but I don't think the people above us know that so…

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