Five Things You Need to Know About the Upcoming Amazon Union Vote

Five Things You Need to Know About the Upcoming Amazon Union Vote.png

Topics Discussed

  • Boulder Shooting Victims

  • Five Things You Need to Know About the Upcoming Amazon Union Vote

    • The effort to unionize an Amazon plant is happening in Bessemer, Alabama.

    • Workers at BHM1 say that a union is sorely needed.

    • The unionization effort has deep roots and high profile support.

    • Amazon opposes the union campaign.

    • Workers at BHM1 have until March 29 to vote on whether to unionize.

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Episode Resources

Transcript


Sarah: This is Sarah

Beth: And Beth, 

Sarah: You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.

Beth: The home of grace-filled political conversations.

Beth: [00:00:00] The more I read here, the more I realized, like I have no perspective that would allow me to get the dynamic in a place where every move is tracked and recorded and pass judgment upon through things like write-ups and you really don't, as you just said, even have a moment to have that conversation with management.

It just seems to me that the bargaining power here is so much less, that a different need is presented by this scenario.

Sarah: [00:00:34] This is Sarah and Beth. You're listening to 

Beth: [00:00:37] pantsuit politics, the home of grace. Political conversations.

Sarah: [00:00:59] hello, everyone. [00:01:00] Welcome to another episode of Pantsuit Politics. We are so thrilled to be here with you today to talk about the five things you need to know about the upcoming unionization vote at the Amazon plant in Bessemer, Alabama. 

Before we get to that, we did want to share a clip of Robin talking about our extra credit book club. All the links to sign up are in the show notes, but let's hear from Robin. 

Robin: [00:01:21] Hi, my name is Robin and I have been subscribed to the Pantsuit Politics Extra Credit Book Club for several cycles now and I love it. I have enjoyed every book that they've sent. Sometimes they're books that I wouldn't have thought to buy myself and sometimes their books that I've wanted to read for a while, but haven't gotten around to buying but they are always good. 

The list of books that I would like to read is pretty out of control so it's really fun to have somebody else make the decision for me and send me these uniformly great books. I have only recently gotten into the Facebook discussion group for the book [00:02:00] club, but I am looking forward to interacting with members of the community there as well. I definitely recommend it. 

Sarah: [00:02:08] Thank you Robin, for sharing your thoughts on the book club. We both should be getting our shipments soon and even though we pick the books and know everything that's in there, I'm still so excited when it shows up. So excited for that.

Beth: [00:02:19] It is the best to unbox and Tiffany's little surprises are so great and there'll be a surprise to longtime extra credit listeners in this box as well. Something new from us, which we're excited about. 

Sarah: [00:02:30] Now, before we get started talking about Amazon, we did want to take a moment and speak to the tragic gun violence and Boulder, Colorado. Specifically, we wanted to share the names of the 10 victims killed in Colorado.

This shooting came less than a week after the violence in Atlanta. And we're going to talk more about the epidemic of gun violence in our country next week on the show. But we did want to make space for the lives lost in Colorado. 

[00:03:00] Beth: [00:03:00] Rikki Olds was 25 years old. She was a manager at King Soopers, the supermarket where these murders happened. Her family described her as happy-go-lucky and as someone who really brought life to the family, 

Sarah: [00:03:13] Eric Talley was 51 years old. He was an 11 year veteran of the police department, who was one of the first to arrive on the scene. He has seven children between the ages of seven years old and 20. 

Beth: [00:03:25] Lynn Murray was 62. She was filling an Instacart order, which is something that she had enjoyed doing in her retirement. She is a former photo director for magazines and a mother of two. I've loved this quote in the New York times from her husband. He said, I just want her to be remembered as just this amazing, amazing comet spending 62 years flying across the sky.  

Sarah: [00:03:47] Tralona Bartkowiak was 49 years old. She was called Luna. She managed a shop that sold yoga and festival clothing and her brother said she was a beam of light and she had just recently gotten engaged.

Beth: [00:03:59] Teri [00:04:00] Leiker was 51. She had worked at King Soopers for almost 30 years. She was involved in a program called best buddies that connects students at the university of Colorado, Boulder with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities and her student buddy said that Terry loved to go to sporting events with her and cheer on the teams.

Sarah: [00:04:18] Kevin Mahoney was 61 years old. His daughter, who worked for a local public radio station, tweeted that he had just recently walked her down the aisle and shared the most beautiful picture. She's also pregnant and expressed her heartbreak that her father would not be able to meet her baby. 

Beth: [00:04:36] Denny Stong was 20 years old. He worked at King Soopers. He enjoyed hunting, but it was also really passionate about politics and especially about strengthening gun regulations to avoid mass shootings. A friend of his talking to the Times said, you know, and, and this is how he ends up leaving the world. It's just tragic. 

Sarah: [00:04:55] Suzanne Fontaine who was 59 years old was known to neighbors as a prolific [00:05:00] gardener and passionate about community theater. She'd also been a part of a nationally syndicated public radio show and had recently been advising people turning 65 on Medicare. 

Beth: [00:05:10] Neven Stanisic was 23. He had been in the grocery to fix the coffee machines at Starbucks and was leaving. He was shot in the parking lot. His parents were Serbian refugees who fled Bosnia in the 1990s. He loved anime and their family priest said that like the children of many refugees, he was the shining hope of his family. 

I'm really grateful to the New York times for spending time on these profiles. As many other media outlets have. I hate that we're getting better at covering mass shootings, but I feel like one piece of progress is that we understand that we need to know the victims.

We need to know their names. We knew that we need to know their stories and I just join their family and friends in grieving the loss of these people who were just at a grocery store.

[00:06:00] Sarah: [00:06:08] As many of you have probably seen, there is an effort to form a union at an Amazon distribution plant in Bessemer, Alabama. So we're going to tackle five things we think you guys need to know about this effort in Alabama and beginning with that this is not the first attempt to unionize.

 Amazon closed down a call center in 2001 that was the focus of a unionization attempts and there was a union drive in 2014, ended with a vote of 21 of the 27 Amazon technicians at a Delaware warehouse voting against unionization. And recently, particularly due to COVID, there's been a lot of incidences of protesting the conditions at Amazon warehouses.

Specifically, there has been a community of Somali refugee workers in Minnesota that work at a retail fulfillment center in Shakopee that have walked off the [00:07:00] job several times in protest of demanding work conditions, retaliatory firings.

We've seen Amazon workers, protests, working conditions specifically with regards to COVID and a lack of PPE. So this effort in Bessemer is not the first, but there has not been a successful driving unionization in an Amazon workplace. 

Beth: [00:07:23] Bessemer is one of Alabama's poorest cities, about 30% of residents there live below the poverty line. It really struggled to recover from the 1980s when the steel sector moved many jobs overseas and so bringing in an Amazon plant was welcome and needed in the community. The BHM 1 plant, as it is known employees about 5,800 workers and to give you some perspective, Amazon employs over a million people. Well, they added 400,000 jobs last year. 

Amazon had a very good year in the midst of the pandemic and served a lot of needs. I don't want to be [00:08:00] diminishing of that. Uh, but they employ a lot of people. About half of what Walmart employees, which was kind of a striking fact to me um, because of the way I think about Amazon. The union filed an initial petition requesting an election on November 20th, 2020. And this is all happening in Alabama, which is a right to work state where paying union dues at unionized companies is optional.

So if you don't choose to join the union, you don't have to pay and unions say this, these laws are really bad for unions because we negotiate on behalf of all the workers and so we have workers benefiting from our efforts without paying dues. That makes it really hard to organize and sustain unions.

But Alabama knows unions. It has a long history with unions because so much manufacturing happened there in the past. The union density there today is just a couple points below the national average of 10%. 

Sarah: [00:08:52] So the second thing you need to know is that the workers at BHM one say that the union is sorely needed. Now [00:09:00] amazon's base pay at the facility is $15 and 50 cents an hour for most workers. That is twice the federal and local minimum wage and it does offer comprehensive health insurance and retirement benefits. The workers are eligible for wage increases every six months, and they've received a $2 an hour bonus during much of the spring. 

They received $300 bonuses during the holiday season and $500 last June. Amazon also provides tuition reimbursements for employees taking classes in certain fields. So. Amazon is saying, what is the union going to bring you? We already pay you above minimum wage. You get health insurance and retirement benefits, but the conditions at the plant, but what the workers are bringing as issues at the plant, really aren't just about pay.

I read an interview with Jennifer Bates who's one of the best summer workers and she testified before a Senate subcommittee and she said, Amazon brags it pays workers above the minimum wage. What they don't tell you is what those jobs are really like. And they certainly don't tell you what they can afford.

[00:10:00] I mean, the guardian reported that Amazon's revenues topped $33 million an hour at one point during the pandemic. So pointing to, you know, the local wages is not unimportant and $15 certainly goes a long way in Alabama, but I think that the conditions of the work is also really important. 

Beth: [00:10:21] And with respect to the local pay workers say $15.50, isn't that great for greater Birmingham, that comparable facilities pay about $3 an hour more than what Amazon is paying us. So we certainly are better than the minimum wage, but that's not the standard. The market here demands more as well. 

Sarah: [00:10:41] The consistent complaints, not just from the workers at the Bessemer plant, but from workers across the country and across the globe that work for Amazon, is that Amazon's business model is really based on a burn rate, burning through employees at a rapid rate, and that they feel like robots.

 In particular there's a lot of discussion [00:11:00] about what Amazon calls time off task. And this is the term they use for the time workers spend away from their workstations. They're only allowed a certain amount of time off task. They are not told how much they have accrued. They are not told how close they are getting to write up. You know, bathroom breaks.

 All of this is time off tasks. It's sort of this, you know, hanging pressure over them. And like you might be making more then what you'd get at a local McDonald's, but it's a very different type of job when every single second you aren't filling orders or caring for the robots, actual robots that fill orders in a, some of these facilities is counting against you. I was reading one employee that said she couldn't even lean against a wall or sit down if she was not actively maintaining one of the physical robots in the, in the plant. 

Beth: [00:11:51] And I saw a TV segment about those robots maybe a year or so ago and it was talking about how they actually can make the job more [00:12:00] dangerous in some ways. Workers also say they get little to no warning about overtime hours, that sometimes those hours are assigned in the middle of the night. They point to a nearby poultry plant that's unionized where 48 hours are given warning for overtime. 

Sarah: [00:12:15] I know, that's what I heard from one of the organizers, exactly what you were saying like that it's not like there's no comparison. There are comparison workplaces in this area and the unionized workers at those warehouses at those poultry plants have things that they can very clearly point to, not just pay and benefit, as what they are receiving with regards to the care of the workers at the plants.

And so, you know, and I think just like with everything else, COVID really accelerated this conversation. You saw huge issues with outbreaks at Amazon warehouses, with workers complaining that they were not given proper PPE, that they were not allowed to socially distance.

 And [00:13:00] you see the impacts of those unions, not always here, but in other countries. There is a big issue in France where the government stepped in on behalf of the unionized workers at an Amazon plant and said, you are forcing them to work and ship products that are in fact not essential. You know, there was those moments, those moments during the pandemic where it was like, well only essential products, but there were things you could order that didn't seem essential to me, I guess, is what I would say. 

And so you see the presence of unions and other countries stepping in and sticking up for the workers and saying like, no, that's not essential. That's not. You're putting the workers in danger, for items that that shouldn't be shipped. And I also, I was listening to a Polish unionized worker at Amazon talking about how the, particularly during the pandemic, across the globe, these workers were talking to each other.

So you had unionized workers in Poland and France talking to Amazon workers in the United States and sharing their concerns and sharing [00:14:00] well, we have this, do you have this? We're allowed to do this. Are you allowed to do that? Which is a really, you know, just sort of fascinating evolution and union organizing.

Beth: [00:14:09] The third thing we want you to know is that this unionization effort has very deep roots and very high profile support. Many people in the Bessemer community are talking about this union fight as an extension of Black Lives Matter. A local pastor, Reverend Gregory Bentley describes the union effort as the unfinished business of the civil rights movement and the Christian faith that is very prevalent in Bessemer is profoundly influential to many of the workers involved in this effort.

 Several leaders are describing their push to organize as a ministry. I read accounts of people saying, you know, I wondered why I came to Bessemer. I wondered why I got the job at this plant and now I see that God put me here to lead this struggle. 

Sarah: [00:14:56] It really reminds me of the [00:15:00] walkouts at the plant in Minnesota. And they talked in the reporting that I was listening to quite a bit about the fact that it was because this community was tightly knit, because it was primarily members of the Somali refugee community working at this plant that they built a lot of trust among themselves as workers, because they had, you know, identities, they shared that weren't just employees or coworkers.

Right. And so local community centers, or in this case, you know, local churches and you have these institutions out there doing some of the organizing or at least fostering the conversations where there is trust and there is connection and there is shared identity and I think that's a huge part of this story in some of the other places that this has happened.

Beth: [00:15:47] President Biden has publicly said he supports this effort to organize. A congressional delegatio went to Alabama to express their support. It included representatives, Andy Levin of Michigan, representative Jamaal Bowman of New York, [00:16:00] representative Cory Bush of Missouri, representative Terry Sewell of Alabama and representative Nikela Williams of Georgia. 

In response, Amazon took a shot at Congress. Amazon spokesperson, Heather Knox encouraged these lawmakers to visit the fulfillment center to observe the working conditions there themselves and she said that she really hopes to see Congress putting the same kind of energy in raising the federal minimum wage and kind of catching up with where Amazon was two years ago.

Sarah: [00:16:39] So the fourth thing you need to know, not surprisingly is that Amazon is very opposed to this union campaign. They are a well-known opponent of unionization. Um, the company has used sophisticated  tools to gather intelligence on warehouse workers who begin discussing unionization. John Hopkins, who's an employee at a San Francisco plant has filed a complaint with the [00:17:00] national labor relations board because he says Amazon consistently removed pamphlets and flyers he posted about unionization and the guardian reports that at least six Amazon workers who have participated in protests or advocated of change have been fired during the pandemic. 

And I think this is a good point, Beth, to just take a little pause and talk about the national labor relations act and the Taft-Hartley act, which prohibits employers from discriminating against employees for participating in union activities because I think as we talk about what Amazon has done, we should emphasize what really constitutes unfair labor practices on the behalf of employers. I 

Beth: [00:17:34] think that that also, I think this point also speaks to Amazon's campaign to say to workers, you should negotiate directly with us. Well, it's difficult to directly negotiate with you if you are removing our opportunity to think about other options and if we have seen people lose their jobs for speaking up about safety issues.

Sarah: [00:17:56] Right. And I mean, I think that's just really important to emphasize. This is [00:18:00] illegal under these acts. You're not allowed to discriminate in any way against employees for participating in union activities and that's all aspects of employee relations.

You are not allowed to promise or grant benefits to employees or encourage them to abandon the union. You're not allowed to make threats, including threats of discharge or layoffs plant closures. You are not allowed to interrogate your employees or prospective applicants concerning these union organizing activities.

You're not allowed to prevent organizing during non-working hours or breaks. You're not allowed to prohibit unioninsignia on shirts and jackets, or, and this is important as we talk more about what Amazon has done, engage in surveillance of employees to determine their views on the union. 

Beth: [00:18:40] And I don't know how Amazon has responded to each of those specific allegations. The lines around those requirements for employers get pretty blurry. Good lawyers can make arguments about what does or does not violate the national labor relations act but the spirit of the act is certainly to permit an open atmosphere for employees to [00:19:00] consider unionization and conduct a vote without coercion part of the employer.

Sarah: [00:19:05] And there is evidence that Amazon has engaged in a broad array of these anti-union activities. They have sent text message. They took out ads on Twitch. They put anti-union size and flyers all over the warehouse, including in the bathrooms. They created a do it without dues, D U E S website to oppose the union.

And they said, Hey, the cover page of the site says, Hey, B H M one doers, why pay almost $500 in dues? We've got you covered with high wages, healthcare, vision, and dental benefits, as well as safety committee and an appeals process. There's so much more you can do for your career and your family without paying dues.

So they're emphasizing that, um, they've talked about individual employees and their company loyalty. I read an article about an employer who had his badge photographed, which he felt was vaguely threatening during some of these meetings all the employees were called to where they had to watch anti-union [00:20:00] videos or hear management speak against the unions.

So they have really pushed hard even to the point that they were accused of diverting traffic in Bessemer, that they petitioned the County officials to change the traffic lights outside the warehouse more quickly from red to green because the union organizers were talking to employees as they waited at the red light. 

Beth: [00:20:20] In a more official sense, Amazon sought to block mail in voting for the union. The national labor relations board typically favors manual elections, but they moved to supporting mail in ballots because of COVID-19. Amazon's attorneys argued that mailing in balance for the selection would take too long and would involve too many resources. We've heard these arguments before about other types of voting.

Amazon is taking this position likely because of a sense that mail in ballots favor unions. Jackson Lewis, one law firm that works often with companies in opposition to unions published a blog post saying that the data supports the idea that mail-in [00:21:00] ballots favor unionization. 

Sarah: [00:21:02] Well, and it just seems to be this overall narrative of like, we already take care of you. If you bring in a union, this is what Bezos has said several times in interviews and speaking about unionization, then we won't be able to talk directly to you. But I just think at this point in Amazon's history, you have enough evidence, like when are people supposed to talk to management if they can't take time off task to go to the bathroom.

 You know, like I'm not really sure how that makes people feel like they are a valuable asset. It seems like after, you know, several decades, you have lots and lots of employee testimony that they don't feel valued. And that the only way to value employees is not just benefits and wages, but how they're treated on the job and it is grueling work. 

You're talking about standing for hours and hours and hours and not having one second to rest because you have to meet these productivity goals. You know, one of the big issues in the Somali [00:22:00] committee was that prime day was hitting in the peak heat of summer and also during Ramadan, when many of the employees were fasting and there was real concern about the danger to the employees, not to mention just the insensitivity to the community itself.

And I think what you have now is like, Like I said, a long history of this and a long history of their opposition and this like sort of one note narrative, they push that we, you know, we, you, you just don't need the union. Don't pay the dues because you can advocate for yourself individually. I

Beth: [00:22:33] certainly have become, I think more humble reading about the conditions in Amazon fulfillment centers and just recognizing that nothing in my work experience has any relationship to what people do every day in Amazon fulfillment centers and I really want there to be a way for this to work, because I think Amazon provides some really important benefits to [00:23:00] communities and to our country, especially during the pandemic.

I've had a lot of Amazon boxes at my house and I'm really grateful for them and I want this to work out, but I think a past version of me would have said yeah, it makes sense to me that direct communication between employees and management is a better path. The more I read here, the more I realized, like I have no perspective that would allow me to get the dynamic in a place where every move is tracked and recorded and pass judgment upon through things like write-ups.

And you really don't, as you just said, even have a moment to have that conversation with management. It just seems to me that the bargaining power here is so much less than I've ever had in any position, even when I was like a bank teller in high school, but a different need is presented by this scenario.

Sarah: [00:23:54] Well and, I think it is really a reflection of something we've talked a lot about on the show, which [00:24:00] is just work and American ideas around work and productivity and the idea that your value is only expressed and like be a doer, even in that leg dumb campaign, they're running be a doer, you know, because that's where you're valued in that the only way we can express that value is through wages.

And I just don't think that's where our culture is anymore or is certainly moving away from that. That people want a more holistic and integrated understanding of their role as an employee inside a company, they don't want to be treated like robots, even if they're working with robot. They don't want to be treated like an expendable resource, which is definitely how I think Amazon has treated its employees in the past. 

You know, the, they talk a lot about the impact of moving from just two day to one day shipping. And that made a lot of money for Amazon and that was achievable through the extraordinary [00:25:00] effort and toll of its employees. And so I just think that, that it's, it's so easy in a digital space, like Amazon to forget the human beings who are making all of that possible.

And so I just think that this particular moment, as it comes on the edge of a pandemic where a lot of us depended on Amazon and where Amazon made a massive amount of money is really important. 

Beth: [00:25:28] And it's important. I remember that a million people work there, they're gonna have a lot of different perspectives and we will see how the employees in Bessemer feel when they vote, which is the last thing we want you to know that they have until March 29th to vote on whether to unionize.

 They need 50% plus one of the ballots cast rather than 50% of total employees inside the warehouse. So Amazon is not going to be able to rely on turnout. Um, it is going to have to persuade people who vote in this union election [00:26:00] to side with the company. 

Sarah: [00:26:01] And if they unionize, they will join the retail wholesale and department store union, which represents 100,000 workers in a number of industry. This particular union is known for organizing poultry plants in Alabama. I spoke to some friends in Alabama who live in the area and they say, The local news is reporting that they expect it to pass very narrowly. 

And then of course, the question is will Amazon then close the distribution center like they did with the call center early in its history and will they leave the area? And I think that's, that's really, really hard for employees to consider as they're making this difficult vote, you know?

 And I think another interesting aspect of this is how this relates to Walmart. Walmart is in deep competition with Amazon, especially in the online space. Like we talked about at the opening of the show, you know, it has twice as many employees and has also been able to fight off unionization efforts within its facilities and its stores.

And is this [00:27:00] an opening for Walmart to, to become the provider. You know, they're starting to offer a more like a prime like feature. You know, would, would people be willing or wanting to protest Amazon should they close the plant, if it chooses to unionize, would this be an opening for Walmart to sort of take up some of that market share or for Walmart I mean, I don't think Walmart is going to lead unionization among us employees to compete with Amazon, but I have to believe that Walmart is paying very, very close attention to this. 

Beth: [00:27:35] And I wonder what happens in other Amazon facilities, if this passes and what course of action Amazon takes to kind of proactively deal with what could be, uh, you know, a giant ripple effect. Amazon has spent a lot of money at this one plant to avoid the union. Uh, what does it start to look like for Amazon, if unions pop up in all of their facilities around the country? 

Sarah: [00:27:58] Well, and I just think [00:28:00] Amazon has less political capital right now. I think that the tech industry in general is realizing that the tides are turning and that the government is becoming more and more willing to regulate and to investigate.

And that they're not sort of the darlings that they once were as far as when it comes to Washington DC, or even really across the country. I think the attitudes toward Amazon and other big tech companies has shifted and so I think that's probably a big reason why this unionization effort has gone as far as it has.

Beth: [00:28:40] We will certainly follow up with you after the vote about what develops and how the vote went down but we hope that this gave you some perspective on what's happening there in Alabama, so that when we have that conversation, we'll all be oriented to it and ready to follow up.

[00:29:00] Sarah: [00:29:05] Outside politics today, we wanted to share a message we received from Taylor. It was so awesome and so encouraging and really just made our days that we asked her to read it on the show and we hope you enjoy it. 

Taylor: [00:29:23] Dear Beth, Sarah and Pantsuit Politics team. I am so grateful for the conversation you have put into the universe for the past few months surrounding vaccines.

Your education on this topic has reduced my anxiety around getting vaccinated tremendously, although not getting vaccinated was never an option for me. My 35 year old partner has type one diabetes so many people have no clue that he has it. He hides it as best he can because people can just be terrible about chronic illness.

It is essentially an invisible illness unless he welcomes you into it. He initially hid it from me and as someone [00:30:00] whose family is riddled with types one and two diabetes, he found comfort in knowing that I didn't see it as disabling, just as a fact of life. Unfortunately, this past year, it has been disabling for us.

It's been disabling to see so many people we love pass up the opportunity to get vaccinated because they don't see an immediate impact on their lives. They refuse to acknowledge that it impacts ours. It's been disabling to hear people talk about those who are weak being killed off in a disgusting Darwinian game.

It's been disabling to have people pressure me to attend things in-person because quote, nothing's wrong with me. It's truly possible that my professional reputation will never be repaired because I sought safety. It's been disabling to watch the man I love navigate purchasing insulin without insurance from the job he lost and with deductible so high that he might as well not have insurance.

Every word, your team [00:31:00] produced combated these hits to our life with compassion and understanding. Every word your team produced mitigated a negative from the past year and filled its void with kindness and the American way. Every word, your team produced provided me with a sense of community I was shocked to have lost in people I know in everyday life. Every word your team produced enabled me to have the strength to continue supporting, loving and fighting for him.

The work you do has given me hope. He gets his second dose of Maderna on March 29th and I get my second dose of Pfizer on April 11th and I'm so damn excited, I can hardly contain it. Thank you for celebrating with all of us and thank you for continuing to listen and speak. Wishing your whole team health and peace, Taylor.

Beth: [00:31:50] I think Taylor's message is so important, even though it's not, you know, exactly outside politics, because we hear from you that you are all having such a range [00:32:00] of experiences with COVID, such a range of experiences with trying to get your vaccines, such a range of feelings about what life looks like post vaccination and so we really appreciate you sharing those messages with us and thank Taylor for taking time to record this in her own voice. 

Sarah: [00:32:16] And thank you to all of you for joining us for another episode of Pantsuit Politics, we will be back in your ears on Tuesday and until then, keep it nuanced, y'all.

Beth: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.  

Sarah: Alise Napp is our managing director. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

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