2022 in Review: War in Ukraine

conversations we returned to

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EPISODE RESOURCES

Revisiting the beginning of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine reminds us powerfully of the importance of continuing support to the Ukrainian people. In addition to the notes from the episodes linked above, we compiled resources about the current state of the war below. Volodymyr Zelenski and the Spirit of Ukraine were named Time’s Person of the Year. Russia has engaged in a drone campaign to bomb Kyiv. Kherson has been liberated and attacked. The two countries have reached an agreement to allow grain exports to leave the country and prevent a world wide food crisis. These resources are a good starting point to see what’s going on in Ukraine today.

TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:08] And this is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.  

Sarah [00:00:26] As we celebrate the holidays here at Pantsuit Politics, we decided to take a different approach to our year end retrospective. Instead of featuring an entire episode, we wanted to highlight our conversations throughout the year about some of the biggest stories of 2022. Of course, one story stood out among the rest: Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February of this year has dominated the headlines and featured prominently in our conversations here at Pantsuit Politics. With a story as important as this one, we thought looking back on how we have felt at different points in the conflict was important, and we hope you find it helpful as well.  

Beth [00:01:03] Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24th. We released an episode the next day that included this conversation.  

Beth [00:01:12] The first thing to understand is that Ukraine is under strike from land, from air, by sea. Russian troops are coming into the country from Belarus in the north, Russia in the east, and Crimea in the south. I thought this was really helpful perspective from the dispatch, they wrote, "On the ground in Ukrainian cities thus far, the situation might best be summed up with one word -- lines. Lines to get cash out of the ATM. Lines to pick up prescriptions at the pharmacy. Lines to fill up at the gas station." Thousands upon thousands of cars were seen stuck in traffic Thursday morning, attempting to leave Kyiv and head west toward Poland and away from Russia. That perspective on what people in Ukraine are doing and facing right now helped me get a better sense of what an invasion means.  

Sarah [00:02:00] And also lines to sign up and fight. There was a picture in the New York Times, and I'm choking up just thinking about it of a room full of adults sitting there like in coats that look like mine on cell phones that look like mine waiting for instructions on how to go defend their country. The stress and the intensity on their faces, it took my breath away.  

Beth [00:02:23] You can tell that Ukraine is a country that has been dealing with Russia for a very long time and dealing with Russian aggression and violence for a very long time. And there is a real era of defiance that President Volodymyr Zelensky reportedly does not have plans to evacuate. He issued an address in Russian directly to the Russian people. He said he knew that they wouldn't see it on Russian TV, but he hoped it would get to them. And he said, "We don't want this." And what I really appreciated in his appeal to the Russian people is how he said, "Here's what's going to happen. War is pain, blood, mud and death. It is a grave tragedy, and that tragedy has a great cost in all senses of the word. We know for sure we do not need a war. Not a cold one, not a hot one, not a hybrid one. But if these forces attack us, if you attempt to take away our country, our freedom, our lives, the lives of our children, we will defend ourselves -- not attack, defend. And in attacking you are going to see our faces -- not our backs, our faces."  

Sarah [00:03:27] I thought his speeches, both to the Ukrainian people and to the Russian people, were so intense. And I think about this man who several years ago was a comedian, and now this is the moment that history has found him. I was really struck by a sentence in his speech to the Russian people where he said, "We are different, but we don't have to be enemies." I understand that in an authoritarian country the state media is powerful, but I also have to believe that the internet is powerful, and I hope that his message gets out there. And I believe to a certain extent it will.  

Beth [00:04:00] There are lots of statements coming out from world leaders. There are very courageous statements being made by world leaders of countries that share real proximity with Russia. Estonia. Finland. Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have already triggered NATO's Article 4, which requires member states to consult when the territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened. Of Member States, I'm going to talk next week on More To Say quite a bit about NATO and about what those NATO articles mean in the history of NATO and how things could unfold from here. We do know that we're expecting crushing sanctions. The EU has said these are going to be the harshest sanctions we've ever implemented. I think it's difficult as a citizen to really think through what sanctions mean. But you'll hear Rachel Vindman say in the course of our conversation with her that they are a form of hard power. They're imposing economic consequences. That's real. It is not a statement. There is something real about that.  

Sarah [00:04:53] And they'll be real for everybody. I think we have adopted this expectation that sanctions only work if they are highly targeted, punish the bad guys and nobody else. But the truth is, sometimes they're effective when they make the lives of the people in the country harder and they're going to make our lives harder. They're most certainly going to make the lives of Europeans harder because of the way their energy resources are tied up with Russia. But I do want to say, as we talk about how the sanctions affect the Russian people, I do want to take a moment and make sure that we are delineating and differentiating very clearly and purposely the people of Russia from the leadership of Russia. I sat down with Griffin for the News Brief this morning and we talked about that, that the Russian people are not Vladimir Putin, whether they live here, whether they live in Russia, whether they've chosen to stay or leave. I just think as much as we can, we need to to speak that out loud in our conversations that what Vladimir Putin is doing is a war crime, and is wrong, and dangerous, and is going to cost lives.  [00:07:21] But that does not mean we saddle every Russian citizen with those actions, and that we, again, as much as we can, as often as we can make that distinction. But, Beth, I am wondering how you're thinking about Vladimir Putin in this moment. 

Beth [00:06:18] I really strongly agree with you when you talk about differentiating Putin from the Russian people, and I just think it is impossible as an American citizen who has not lived abroad to understand what it's like to live under someone like Putin. And I agree with you, I hope that the power of the internet gets this message to the Russian people. I think the thing that gives me the most hope in this situation is that the Ukrainian people have that media access and have for a long time in the scope of current events. They've had that access and are determined and resolved. And Ukraine is big. It is territorially big. It's the biggest country that has all of its landmass in Europe. And so to talk about this in the defeatist terms that we're hearing from some members of Congress and some members of the media, I find foolish. I find it foolish.  

Sarah [00:07:12] I do not like that. I do not like it at all. It makes me very angry. As if these people don't remember Afghanistan under either Russian occupation or American occupation, or, I don't know, Vietnam. It's not like there aren't examples of when a overpowered nation that had a lot on the line held their ground. And I really dislike the way it's just like, well, Russia can if they want to. And it's not just even for members of Congress, it's members of the media. And I want them to shut up. I don't like that at all. I think it's wrong to talk about it like that and and ahistorical.  

Beth [00:07:51] I think it's both true that the Russian military possesses incredible might, and true that a people that want to govern themselves are formidable. 

Sarah [00:08:06] It's a lot. And I think I just have to remind myself that as an American citizen, like you said, this is a role for the government and this is a role for experts, and we do have to trust them to a certain extent. But I think that in some ways, earlier this week, as an American citizen, there was lots of geopolitical conflict that both affected me and didn't. And that has not changed. And in other ways, things have changed. And because of the history of World War One and World War Two, because of our alliances in Europe, this is different. And I think we just have to acknowledge that difficult reality and follow the news and understand it's important and understand, you know, we still live in a democracy. And so it is important to stay informed and watch what's happening and engage with your fellow citizens because it is important, but that there is a limited list of action items available to us. And that is really hard when you see people suffering like you see the Ukrainian people suffering. 

Beth [00:09:19] The next discussions you'll hear are from our early March episodes March 1st, 4th, and 11th. At that time, Western nations were increasing sanctions. Vladimir Putin's tactics in Ukraine were escalating, and Ukraine's President Zelensky submitted an application for NATO membership.  

Sarah [00:09:37] Russia invaded Ukraine on February 21st. It had amassed almost 200,000 troops along the border of Ukraine, and the expectation was that the Ukrainian military would be far outmatched. Beth, I feel very good about our analysis that that was ahistorical and not something to count on, because now as we sit here five days later, as we're recording on Monday, Russia has failed to take a single major city in Ukraine. And the Ukrainian military and the Ukrainian people have put up an incredible fight. 

Beth [00:10:12] I feel a tenderness here because I don't know what the situation will be by the time you hear this podcast. Every time I read something about the Ukrainian people putting up this fight, I feel like the next sentence is, 'And Russia still has this capacity.' So it's it's a fragile situation.  

Sarah [00:10:32] That's how I check the news all weekend. I literally would like open my phone and very gingerly, like scroll to my little New York Times widget. Read the headline, very quickly, to make sure it was still mostly positive, then shut my phone down. I'd be like, that's it. It was like, that's all I know. I just want to know that things are still going mostly well. I'm terrified of any negative news surrounding Zelinsky, and I would shut my phone and walk away. Like that was literally my energy all weekend.  

Beth [00:11:02] And I had a hard time because I don't want to check in on a war like I'm checking on the world series or something. I don't really know how to process this news in a responsible way. I don't know how to be so moved by a political leader like Zelinsky. And not just him, but all of the high level leaders in Ukraine standing in the street with their cell phones, saying we are here and we are fighting. You know this…  

Sarah [00:11:32] We don't need a ride. We need ammunition.  

Beth [00:11:35] his clarity of purpose and resolve that is so unlike what we've witnessed from political leaders across the globe in similar situations and certainly here in the United States, where political courage is frequently in short supply. So I don't know how to applaud that and be moved by it without giving short shrift to the very real danger that they face and the very real sacrifices that they're making and the fear that they have to feel, even as they have this clarity of purpose. So I have found myself also just kind of feeling like if I stand very, very, still, I won't do any harm here. And that's that's the best I can do, right, not doing any harm.  

Sarah [00:12:26] The best we can do, the most powerful thing the world did was root for the Ukrainian people over the weekend in very public ways, including the Russian people taking to the streets and protesting this conflict. Like, that is a type of weapon in the geopolitical moment we live in, right? Is to get up there and see these amazing Saturday Night Live opens and Twitter threads and these like media moment. Zelensky gets that. That's why he's rising to the moment, right? Like, that's what he has been able to seize and take hold of. Is this moment of this is playing out for the world and I'm going to take every moment I can get.  And, of course, the incredible bravery of disdain. Like, we've seen other conflicts where the leaders bailed, right? Recently. And so I just think all that, like, I don't want to watch it like it's a TV show. But in this weird way, like the way you participate in a geopolitical moment like this is to watch it and participate like the pressure a global audience can give, like the global citizenship can give to stand up and say no. There is a part of me that thinks the way we all feel right now is the wind behind the sails of these incredible, really historical sanctions that the West is taking, right? Like if we were not tapped in, if we were not invested, I think it would be different. I really do.

Beth [00:13:19] It is not that I disagree with any of that. And certainly this is Putin's war, not Russia's war. And I cannot imagine what it would feel like to be in Russia right now and have the economy free falling. I can't imagine what it would be like to have sent a loved one into Ukraine, where the Ukrainian people greet that loved one of yours saying, "What are you doing here? What are you doing here if we share all this history and culture? What are you doing here?" So I think that you're right, that there is a clear aggressor and that it is a singular aggressor, really. And my hope is that all of this public pressure and outcry will encourage both the Ukrainian resistance and the Russian resistance, the people of Russia who are taking enormous risk with their own safety to protest this war. And my other hope is that, just as we continue as a species to live on this planet, that we see war with greater clarity like this all the time. Because I think that part of what's going on right now is that it just feels so senseless. It feels like the most unnecessary suffering that's happening right now.  I had a full fall apart this morning. You know, I had been still a lot physically over the weekend. And then I worked out this morning and I came home and I was making my oatmeal, and Chad came in the kitchen and I just lost it. And I was like, I could not put our kids on the train and leave you to fight. Like, I am so mad that families are being asked this in Ukraine. It makes me so angry. So I agree with you on almost everything that you said. I think I still feel that sense of let me be still. Because so rapidly, we are seeing discussion of nuclear weapons in Belarus. So rapidly, we're talking about Switzerland not being neutral in this fight. We're talking about whether Finland now wants to come and be part of the of NATO. Just a years worth of global change culminating in a period of days, Germany taking a much more aggressive posture than it has in decades.  And I don't know what will come of any of that. And I am concerned sitting in a country that, like, really screwed Ukraine over time, after time, after time, from the end of the Cold War through our failure to hold President Trump accountable for that inappropriate call with Zelensky. I just am struggling with sort of the, well, it's a clear narrative, and so I have a clear cheerleading spot and I'm going to root for this all the way through and then we'll figure it out on the other side. I just feel too many pieces moving at once to not still have a sense of complexity, even though I do think that this is Putin doing an act of pure evil in the world. And I don't use the word evil very often at all, but I think that's what this is. And understanding that the Ukrainian people are defying a lot of expectations by rising to say, No, we are not aggressors, but we will defend our country." And I am moved by that, to be sure.    

Sarah [00:17:02] This just feels right to me. The way that the Ukrainian people are defending themselves and the rest of the globe is supporting them, it feels different than what we've done in the past, and it feels right. I know that sounds, like, emotional. I don't know another way to put it. You know, I'm not a foreign policy expert. I'm not a security official, but we got a lot wrong post-World War Two. We got a lot right. And we got a lot wrong. And this feels like a shift to me. It feels if the point is to support national identity and borders, then saying we will support you in your fight feels right to me. It feels like a sturdier foundation to start rebuilding that democratic ideal around the globe. 

Beth [00:17:52] I am encouraged that we seem to be willing to sacrifice something across the world. That private industry is willing to sacrifice something to say what Putin's doing here is unacceptable. I think it is good for us to start to understand that sacrifice can take a lot of different form. That we are able to participate without sending troops into Ukraine. I think it is good and encouraging and needed. I think the American public needs to see a way that the United States can be a leader in the world that doesn't involve us using our military directly in combat.  I'm aware that we're using our military in a lot of ways surrounding this fight. Certainly, we have people in those NATO countries right now prepared and at risk. So I don't want to minimize their sacrifice and service either. It's just very complicated. And knowing how early we are into this and how many different directions it could take, I want to be where you are, Sarah, and I just feel still up in knots about it because I think so much can change and there are so many factors here.

Beth A brief update again, the situation remains extremely fluid. What we know today, as we are recording on Thursday, the United Nations estimates more than a million people have fled Ukraine. There are reports of refugees encountering racist violence and discrimination as they try to leave Ukraine. Thousands of people, both Ukrainians and Russians, have died really hard to get a handle on the exact numbers. But we know it's a lot of people and it will be even worse as Putin has escalated the indiscriminate violence that Russian troops are bringing to Ukraine. Governments, corporations, international organizations are using every economic tool at their disposal to isolate and punish Russia, and the costs of that isolation are starting to be felt throughout the world.  Russian citizens are protesting the war, risking arrest and violence from the Russian government. Many Russians are leaving the country. We have a real humanitarian crisis as medical supplies are running short. Aid is needed throughout Ukraine and on every side of Ukraine, at the borders. Soldiers are starting to go from other countries into Ukraine to assist Ukrainian fighters. The International Criminal Court is launching a war crime investigation. Disinformation abounds. There are fake and misleading videos flooding TikTok. It is really not hyperbolic to say that in one week, the history of the world has changed, and as we are recording right now, we do not have an end in sight.

Sarah [00:20:34] It feels like we've switched from a, you know, unjustified invasion to just a war of terror on the citizens of Ukraine. And there was a daily episode from the New York Times. They interviewed a military reporter and they said that military experts in the United States expect Russia to ultimately prevail and that then you would have this long term insurgency. And I know it sounds like I am switching gears here because when I first said, I don't think this invasion is going to go the way I think it does, I think that's ahistorical and that people that have something to fight for put up quite the resistance.  And now I'm going to say, looking back at the history, while I think understandable to say, "Oh, well, this is what we've seen in the past. You see this insurgency that stretches ou," I get that. I also think that that is ignoring the very new reality of these economic sanctions and the economic reality of Russia. Because you know what fighting long term insurgencies take? Money and stability. Which they have neither of right now. And so I don't know. I feel like the likelihood of sort of this long term protracted situation, especially at the rate at which he is accelerating, it does not seem as likely to me as I feel like some of the analysis is concluding, what do you think?

Beth [00:21:54] I don't know how this ends, but I do know as a U.S. citizen that the political will to do a long term occupation of a country that is resisting is important for that effort to be sustainable and successful.

Sarah [00:22:11] Even in an authoritarian country.

Beth [00:22:13] Even in an authoritarian country, especially in an authoritarian country where people are not getting enough to eat and struggling to get access to their own cash and unable to buy the things that they need to buy for everyday life.

Sarah [00:22:27] And your rich people are unhappy, which also seems like a real liability.

Beth [00:22:31] And the other thing that strikes me that I cannot understand as an American citizen, in the depth that I think is in play here is that there is a connection between the Ukrainian people and the Russian people. And that connection both motivates Putin to do this and I think creates this tremendous conflict for Russian soldiers who are being asked to go into Ukraine. And so how sustainable it is when your soldiers don't understand or are extremely conflicted about the cause? I think this is tough. Again, I don't know how it ends, and I try to keep a lot of humility around this whole topic. I have found myself mystified by other people's reactions to what's going on in Ukraine.  I have found myself extremely sensitive and extremely frustrated in discussions about this topic. And so I am trying to just be open minded about my own reactions and everyone else's as to what's going on here and certainly to what's going to happen next. But I do think that your point that there are a lot of new factors at work here is important to us not adopting like a sense of resignation about any potential outcome, including the idea that because we've gotten all this information, that Ukraine is putting up a fight, that means that it's going great. It's a wide open field of possibility, I think, as to what happens next.

Sarah [00:23:59] I just think that's the balance you always have to do when you're looking at the lessons of history. You cannot ignore them. We've seen that over and over and over again, right, that's the march of folly, is that we don't understand. We don't take the lessons of history. We don't take in conflicting information. We don't, with open eyes, assess what's before us. But at the same time, the lesson of history is that things change. And, yeah, there are lessons, but they don't always equally apply, in particular, the at the economic. Just war.  I don't really know what else to call it. I mean, I feel like this is an economic aggression towards Russia that I support, like I'm not mad about it. Like it's different. You can't compare this in any way, shape or form to the Russian conflict in Afghanistan, the United States conflict in Afghanistan, Russia in Syria, Russia in Georgia, Crimea, US and Vietnam. Like, there's just no historical equivalency to this level of like just pushing them out of the global economy. 

Beth [00:24:44] Yeah, we talked about having this conversation with your kids, and Jane was asking me some questions about it this morning because she continues to hear kids kind of referring to World War three. And I told her there is no comparison to World War Two here, really, it's different. Weapons, different. Interests, it's different. Germany, it's a different. I mean, everything is different from from that time period. So while the whole world is involved today, I don't think we need to sit around thinking that it's going to play out that way because the entire landscape is different. But the other thing I wanted to share with you about Jane is that so she's 11, she's a fifth grader. She is very upset that they're not discussing this in her classes at school. She's very upset about it.  And I don't just bring this up all the time at home, but she knows, she's aware that it's happening. She knows that I work on it. And this morning I was getting ready and she came in my bathroom and said, "Mom, can you believe they're not talking to us about this at school?"

Sarah [00:25:43] Wow.

Beth [00:25:44] And I said, "Jane, what do you think is the most important question that you want addressed at school?" And she said, "Why is this happening?" And she said, "I know what you've told me that Putin lives in the past and that he believes Ukraine belongs to Russia. But I still don't understand why he's allowed to just do this." So we had to talk about authoritarianism and why we value American democracy and all of the checks on power that we have here.  And I said, "Well, what do you think your teachers ought to do in this situation?" She goes, "I don't know." You know, she's 11, so everything is delivered with a healthy side of exasperation. She said, "I don't know. But maybe like take five minutes and acknowledge that it's going on and let us talk about it a little bit." And I said, "Well, why do you think they're not doing that? Because they don't want to scare anybody." And she goes, "I just think that's ridiculous because something is always going to be scary and we need to figure out how to deal with it." And I was like in my head thinking, I'm so glad this is how she is managing this because that's honest, right? That's honest and and pretty mature. And it's a perspective that I'm going to keep with me as I continue to take in all this information.

Beth The situation is changing quickly in some ways and it's not changing in other ways. And that lack of momentum as far as what is being reported in the United States makes it easy for a lot of us to sort of tune out. That lack of momentum combined with how much more violent this is becoming, how much more senseless it's becoming. How gruesome some of the reporting is, especially about this bombing of a maternity hospital.  So we recognize that it's hard for everyone to hang in with in a way that feels like it's doing anything except creating more anxiety. We also recognize that this is historically important, that it will shift the world, that it is shifting American foreign policy in ways that are going to have long lasting consequences. And so, Sarah, maybe the best thing we can do is talk a little bit about how this is showing up in our personal lives and our personal conversations.

Sarah [00:28:12] Yeah, I think it's really hard. Look, we're not journalists. We don't need to sit here. We don't have somebody from the Pantsuit Politics team on the ground in Ukraine. There are wonderful sources out there doing incredible reporting on the latest with the number of refugees and what's going on in Poland and what's happening with the fighter pilots. I mean, the only thing I think is important for all of us to remember is that we never know the whole story, even with fantastic reporting, especially with the sort of back and forth with these countries as far as what's going on. And I think you're right, I think gruesome is actually the best word because what is our ethical obligation to pay attention to gruesome, horrific realities in another part of the world that we have almost no control over? Sort of reminds me about our conversation surrounding the Olympics. I just think it's it's really hard.  I mean, I feel the attention to the coverage lessening, there's even like reporting on that, that the stories aren't getting as many as interactions. And it is different at the beginning when we were all like, well, wait, what's going to happen and how is that going to affect the rest of the world? Those questions are still relevant, but it feels like the more days we stack up where we know what's going to happen, which is Russia's going to continue to commit war crimes, Ukrainians are going to continue to resist and people are going to die. So now what? At my church last night, the older kids met and they were taking prayer requests. I wasn't there, my friend Diane reported this scene to me. And somebody said, "Well, we should pray for the people of Ukraine." They're like, yes, yes. So that tells me like whether or not we're all engaged in the coverage, if the kids are paying attention enough to to make prayer request, it's still out there in the world, for sure.  And then someone said, "Well, should we pray for the people of Russia? I know they're the bad guys." And they had a conversation about, well, sometimes when there's a leader making really terrible choices the people don't have a lot of control over that. And we're still called to love people. And it's still important to pray for people, even people that are hurting others. And then somebody said, "Well, should we pray for Vladimir Putin?" And they had a conversation about, well, you know, we're still called to love and Vladimir Putin is still a human being. And I thought, I mean, maybe that's the best we can do right now is to remind ourselves, especially the person that is in control, the person that is committing these gruesome acts is not a two dimensional character. He is a real human being.  With the stories in the news, it starts to become a story we're just watching, and it's hard to have those moments where we like realize now this is this is happening. These aren't just photos. This isn't just video footage. This is happening to someone right now, millions and millions of people.

Beth [00:30:52] I was at the salon last week and the person who I work with there, who I know is very passionate about politics, usually in the opposite direction of me was talking about Ukraine. And she said that she is every day praying for Vladimir Putin, that something will soften his heart, that something will awaken him to the consequences of his actions and cause him to stop. And in some ways, it was a hard conversation to have because you think, like God, I'm getting my eyebrows waxed while people are being bombed and hiding in basements and trying to get on a train to escape this. But in another way, it was the most satisfying conversation I've had with someone about Ukraine because I felt like, you know, even though we have this whole discourse about what good thoughts and prayers are in the country, that was such a meaningful shorthand to me to just say, "Our hearts sincerely desire peace. Our hearts sincerely desire for people to not be senselessly driven out of their country or killed in it.  And whatever it takes to get there, we hope that we will get there. And here we are not able to effectuate any of that change, but putting out with our emotions and our minds that we sincerely desire peace.

Sarah [00:32:21] We still sincerely desire peace and we will continue to follow the invasion of Ukraine through 2023. If you would like to listen to the full episodes, these highlights came from the list as in the show notes. Thank you for joining us here at Pantsuit Politics, we will continue sharing the highlights of our favorite conversations about the top news stories over the next two weeks. And we hope you are having the best holiday available to you.  

Beth [00:32:50] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director. 

Sarah Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.

Beth Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.

Executive Producers Martha Bronitsky, Allie Edwards, Janice Elliott, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holliday, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs, Katherine Vollmer, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, Linda Daniel, Emily Neesley, The Pentons, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sarah Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karen True, Onica Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Vilelli, Amy Whited, Emily Helen Olson, Lee Chaix McDonough,  

Beth [00:57:26] Jeff Davis, Melinda Johnston, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McCue, Nicole Berklas, Paula Bremer and Tim Miller. 

Maggie PentonComment