Choosing Hope to Close 2023

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • Positive Trends from 2023

  • Outside of Politics: Our 2024 Words of the Year

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TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:09] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:10] And this is Beth Silvers. Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.  

[00:00:14] Music Interlude.  

Sarah [00:00:33] Welcome. We're so glad you're joining us today. This is our last regular episode of 2023. Over the next few weeks, we will still be showing up in your feed. Don't worry. We have some surprises and some wonderful listeners selected best of episodes. But today we wanted to celebrate the good news that has happened in 2023. This is a regular practice I use on the news brief. We have a Good News Brief every Thursday, and so we wanted to use that muscle here at Pantsuit Politics and recognize, illuminate, elevate positive things we see in our culture, in our country and in the world.  

Beth [00:01:08] And then Outside of Politics, we end by sharing our words for next year. And we hope that hearing what we're thinking about going into 2024 will inspire some of your practice if you choose a word for the next year as a guidepost.  

Sarah [00:01:22] Before we start, I do want to say thank you to everyone who sent us a Christmas card. Guys, I just sit at my table and cry. That's what happens. I open the cards. I read about what you've celebrated this year, what you've overcome this year. How much you appreciate the work we do here. And I just sit and I cry, and I package them all up to send to Beth and Alise and Maggie so they can sit and cry, too. But sometimes I had to send a screenshot because I can't wait to send them to you because they're so good, Beth.  

Beth [00:01:53] I'm glad that you send the screenshots. I struggle with the jealousy that I feel that you have the P.O. box near you. The waiting is very, very hard, but the screenshots help because we get little drips of goodness.  

Sarah [00:02:08] It's your true advent.  

Beth [00:02:09] It is true.  

Sarah [00:02:11]  That's your actual advent practice here at the holiday season, is waiting for me to send the cards to you. Because your faces and your children's faces and your puppies faces... Guys, I can't. I can't.  

Sarah [00:02:24] I love you all so much. Thank you for every single note, every single card. They mean so much to us. And I hope that everybody's enjoying the holiday card exchange. And you're getting to feel this flow amongst all of you. But we just wanted to send a special shout out and thank you to all of you who sent us cards and who love our work and share how much the work means to you. It's invaluable and valuable to us. Next up, let's talk about good news in 2023.  

[00:02:52] Music Interlude.  

Beth [00:03:11] On Sunday, Ellen and I lit the pink candle in the advent wreath at church- symbolizes joy. And the liturgy that I was asked to read made me feel very uncomfortable, actually, because it talked about joy as rebellious. And I liked that. I think that's true.  

Sarah [00:03:34] Agree.  

Beth [00:03:36] But it referenced how like politicians and news anchors-- I mean, a little close to home here-- are always talking about despair. And I was sorting through my feelings about it and I did read it. And I think it's important to be challenged by things from church. That's part of why I go. And as I sat with it, what I came to is I think it is wrong to pretend there isn't despair and it is wrong to look away from despair. It is also wrong to become addicted to despair. And I think that maybe that's what the liturgy was trying to get at, that it's easy to feel like you aren't truly beholding despair, that you don't care enough, that you are being toxic if you can have joy sitting alongside the very real despair that exists at all times in all places, for all people in different degrees. Which is why I think your good news practice every single week, no matter what's going on in the world, on Good Morning is really important.  

Sarah [00:04:43] Well, despair has a momentum of its own. I would say despair and anxiety about the current state of the world and the future of our society is the status quo. So it's easy, but the consequences are complicated. And so I think focusing on joy is a practice. Joy and recognizing positive trends and good news and problems being solved is a conscious practice. It is not the status quo. And so last week we spent some time talking about trends and stories and issues from this year that aren't positive that we couldn't stop thinking about and that we are concerned with going into 2024. But for the final show of the year, we wanted to spend some time on the year in cheer. The good news, the good positive trends. And there are a lot of them. When I put all this together, I thought, dang, this is great.  

Beth [00:05:49] Is it Anne Lamont who says hope bats last? I think that's right.  

Sarah [00:05:53] Yeah. I like that. Exactly. So let's dive in, everybody. The first thing I want to talk about, Beth, have you heard this little phrase that got batted around just one or two times over the course of 2023? It's called quiet quitting. Have you heard of it?  

Beth [00:06:06] I think we spent quite a bit of time dissecting quiet quitting and what it might represent.  

Sarah [00:06:11] So much time. So when I saw this, I thought, let this put quiet quitting in its grave. Job satisfaction along nearly all measures increased from 2022 to this year, with the biggest gains in work life balance, 60% of respondents said they were happy on that measure compared to 54% the year before. I mean, it's been a good year for workers and people are getting changes in their workplace. It was like 26 different measures from work life balance to work policy to health benefits. And people overall were really happy with how their jobs were going.  

Beth [00:06:52] And I hope this continues. I know this has not been an easy path for employers or employees, for the people who are doing labor advocacy, for the people who are negotiating those deals. The whole conversation around return to work is ongoing and difficult. But my hope is that this trajectory can continue because having happy workers is good for business. Every time you have somebody who loves what they're doing feels a sense of purpose about it and feels that it fits into an overall life that they're happy with, that person is worth their weight in gold every single time.  

Sarah [00:07:29] Well, and especially with the trend we did in the last episode about what was going on this year with the labor movement, I mean, people are like hoarding workers. They know that there's a shortage. And so to keep those people satisfied and happy, not just satisfied, but happy and fulfilled at their jobs is just good for the bottom line. That's the alignment you want to see.  

Beth [00:07:50] Yeah, and let me say about happy. I think happy is fleeting and not always available, but a baseline of feeling purposeful. I know I show up here. I do good work that contributes something to society and people around me recognize my contribution. That is sustainable and that's the goal.  

Sarah [00:08:13] And it feels like we've found a few steps forward as far as not just doing your job as your whole identity, and so you must be the most productive and maximized at work to fulfill this huge proportion of your identity. It feels like we've found some balance on the back end. That work is important, but it is not the most important thing. That has fueled some of this balance within the work place itself. Because some of that work was going to have to take place out of the workplace. Your work isn't a family guy. I hate that phrase. And I feel like we found the sense of like, it matters, but it's not the only thing that matters. And then that equilibrium could fuel real improvements in work culture, in our work life balance and in all these measures.  

Beth [00:09:01] I feel like I have found that personally this year I am more satisfied with my work, as my work has become less a part of my identity. I recently had a conversation with Stephanie at SHE-CAN who was just delightful. SHE-CAN profiles women who are doing interesting things in the world, and she asked me sort of what's next? Like, what are your goals right now? And I said, "All of my goals are relational. I do not feel a real sense of ambition about my work. Other than that, I want to continue to find meaning in it and do it better all the time. I have specific things I'm working on all the time in the work that we do here. It is easier for me to get better at my work when I am fulfilling my big picture goals." Which Alise sent me a meme this week that was like my five year plan is to tell my friends how much I love them and hang out all the time. And that's where I am in my life. And I think that more people are finding that and looking less to work to be all the things, makes it easier to find that steady, purposeful contentedness. Instead of I always need more from work because I'm asking work to be everything to me.  

Sarah [00:10:07] Well, and we have another trend that I think speaks to this holistic, integrated, hopefully robust understanding of ourselves and our places in the world, which is that suicide rates among young people are decreasing. And 2022 suicide rates for males declined for those ages 34 and younger. And among females, the rates declined for those ages 24 and younger. The most significant decrease in rates of suicide among young women was found in those between the ages of 10 to 14 who experienced a 22% decline. Look, that's a lot of numbers. Those are people that are with their family this year that might not have been. That's real. That's a real thing. Very young people.  

Beth [00:10:47] Very young people. Very, very young people.  

Sarah [00:10:49] That are here, that might not have been. And 22% doesn't sound like that. But that's what that is. That's what that is. That's someone loves who's still here. And I just think that that's incredible. And young men experienced rates decreasing by 13%. I mean, that's just the overall rates for all age groups. That's incredible.  

Beth [00:11:10] I would love to learn what this data reveals, what interventions are effective. I know that our middle school has gone hard at this issue. We've gotten communications about how they talk openly about suicide and depression with our students. There are specific angles of this that they're working, and to see these numbers and know that that matters makes me so excited and so grateful for the hard work that goes into that. It also makes me want to know how can we extrapolate that to people who are not in school settings? What can we be doing for older people because we know that risk still exists and we know that overall, for all age groups, suicide rates did increase slightly. So what can we learn from the good work that's being done for young people and carry that forward in their immediate future? I believe that work will be with them for the rest of their lives, which is a wonderful thing about our school systems. Where can we take this next? How can we keep this trajectory going?  

Sarah [00:12:09] Yeah, no, I totally agree. I want to see any progress on this issue because it's so tough and it touches everybody. And so any progress that we can take and figure out, okay, what did we learn? How can we help even more people? It's not hyperbolic to say it's a matter of life and death. And we've seen these rates rise. And so to turn that trajectory around, even in certain subsets of age groups, I don't think we can emphasize enough. That we spent a lot of time on teen mental health and a lot of time on talking about the mental health of young people. And I think in this generation, we have a lot to learn from them. I think they're so powerful. My husband said last night that I thought, oh, my gosh, that's so true. We were talking about our kids. We were trying to put together a list of things for the year that we've seen that they've done a lot of growth. We're going to try to take each of them to lunch one on one.  

Beth [00:12:55] I love that.  

Sarah [00:12:56] Over the Christmas break. I read that once. I read of a person said that at the end of every year they got one on one time with I think it was their mom or their dad-- I don't remember which parent-- where they said, "Here's where I've seen that you've really grown this year and I'm really proud of you." Just like very focused praise. And I was talking about one of my proudest moments was one of the volunteers at the food pantry where Griffin volunteers said, "I just want to tell you, I really enjoy your son. He greets me by name. I'm not some invisible old lady to him." And it's like the best compliment I've ever gotten as a mother. And Nicholas was like, listen, Gen-z, they see everybody. And I thought, that is so true. They really do. It just brings tears in my eyes. They really do. This generation, they see each other. And I think some of this struggle is that can be painful, especially when you're really young, to see people suffering and to see people's pain. But I love the way he phrased it. I thought, oh, man, I am going to keep that front and center.  

Beth [00:13:53] Well, let me say again to the educators, to the school counselors, to the administrators, they've been taught that. They have been intentionally taught that. And as parents, it is very easy to roll your eyes about anything other than a math test coming home from school. These are the skills that they need in an increasingly digital world. To teach this generation to see every person. To have kids who have grown up surrounded by screens be better than their parents at acknowledging an older person at a food pantry, that is the success of our educational system, and it's one that deserves to be celebrated.  

Sarah [00:14:35] Well, speaking of our educational system, another thing we spend a lot of time on this year was that Chat GPT was going to enable every young person to cheat their way through their education. Okay, but we got new research from Stanford University. They surveyed more than 40 U.S. high schools. Some 60 to 70% of students said they had recently engaged in cheating. Now, that's not great, and I don't love that number. But it was the same as previous years. Chat GPT didn't make a difference. They cheated the same numbers. We'd like less cheating, but Chat GPT does that seem to have fueled a massive increase. So there is that everybody.  

Beth [00:15:11] I think this is the thing where technology always has several sides to it, because while it may be easy to ask Chat GPT to write a paper for you, the same kinds of technology can also tell your professor 82% of this was plagiarized. This is 90% likely to have come from A.I.. And so those tools are out there. And I have to think, as painful as it is-- and I have a friend who's dealing with this right now. As painful as it is for a teacher to go to a student and say, "You didn't write this," and that's a horrible experience, I hope that having the technological capacity to say, "I don't think you're a bad person. I see here the data that tells me you didn't write this," I hope that that helps soften it. I was accused of cheating once in college, and it was one of the worst experiences of my entire academic life, even though the professor handled the situation as fairly as he possibly could. It was horrible. It felt like someone saying, I don't trust you. And now to be able to say, "It's not about me trusting you or not, it's just that this is the report that I received, help me out here," I hope that that's better.  

Sarah [00:16:26] Okay, so we've talked about some trends involving everybody. Beth, I would like to talk about one person in particular that we have also spent a great deal of time on this year. I would like to talk about Elon Musk. I read an article entitled basically, Elon Musk His Bill is Coming Due. And I thought, this is the good news that we need at the end of 2023. Basically, the idea is that his usual approach to all his business ventures, move quick, spend a lot of money, act out of instinct. I don't even know the unifying thread of Elon's behavior, but it's paid off. It's worked pretty good at Tesla. It worked fine at SpaceX. You know where it's not working so great. Twitter now known as X. He's $13 billion in debt and Tesla's profit is shrinking. They just recalled a bunch of them. And I just think the shtick is running dry. The interest rates are going up. I think that's the other thing. It's like he just fills so much of this with debt, which in an era of almost nonexistent interest rates was one thing. But he took this risk with Twitter at the same moment that interest rates started to rise. And it's not going well.  

Beth [00:17:42] There's a lot here and I have a lot of feelings about it because I think in so many ways this is like AI. Elon resembles AI in this way, his assets are his liabilities. It's true for all of us, I guess, but his assets are really his liabilities. The things that have enabled him to contribute so much (and he has contributed a lot) are the things that are his greatest struggles and that could be his down-- he is Shakespearean on so many levels. When he did that CNBC interview recently where he said f*** all the advertisers, he doesn't care if they leave the platform, he physically looked like he was carrying the weight of the world of the galaxy. And I think he does. And there's a lot of speculation about why that is. There's a lot of speculation about how things are not well within him.  

Sarah [00:18:38] Oh, I don't think things are well within his soul.  

Beth [00:18:41] Yeah.  

Sarah [00:18:41] Is anybody quibbling with that?  

Beth [00:18:43] Well, but there are people who believe that is because of substance abuse. There are people who believe it's because of mental health issues. There are people who believe it's because he's doctor evil. People have their theories about what's not well in his soul. I think about the dimensions of this story and how Elon Musk represents so much more than one guy. Tesla's profits shrinking, for example. Chad and I were just talking about how Ford is going to scale back production of the electric F-150. And Chad is much smarter on issues like this than I am. His theory is just the charging infrastructure is not here yet for enough people to have electric vehicles and conveniently be able to charge. So many people don't have a place they can charge at home. And it's built out great for like an elite club of people to have Tesla's and find those charging stations. But it is not built out for everybody to be able to charge any time. And we have to produce more electricity for them to be able to build it out that way and it work everywhere. So there are layers of this, right? And that's the trouble with Elon. He wants to be the guy who fixes it all, all the time. And it cannot just be Elon. It can't just be the one guy. And he wants to be the guy who's capable of figuring out how to implant chips in us to make us function more like machines.  

Sarah [00:20:06] I forgot about that one.  

Beth [00:20:07] And colonize Mars and be the electric charging infrastructure. And fix free speech by his acquisition of one platform. It's too much for anyone. I would like Elon to spend some time on Elon in 2024. That's my wish for him.  

Sarah [00:20:26] Yeah. I mean, I think that the difference for me this time is I bet he acted this ugly and did things as ridiculous as what he's done at X, at Tesla, at Space X, it was just private. No doubt.  

Beth [00:20:42] And a lot of that's been documented now, no doubt.  

Sarah [00:20:44] Yeah. This behavior is just like the reality is catching up to that. This isn't some genius managerial style. It's that you were behaving in an environment that rewarded a certain type of behavior and you are no longer behaving in that environment. There's just something to me like so karmic about the fact that he was the person of the year, someone who behaved badly for their own sort of grand visions of achievement, as well as making a lot of money. And now it's Taylor Swift. That feels like progress to me. You know what I mean?  

Beth [00:21:13] Well, I also think there is a big trend of a lot of bills coming due this year. We just got the Rudy Giuliani verdict. We've had the Dominion lawsuits against Fox News. Tucker Carlson doesn't have a show on primetime anymore. 2023 has clearly announced that lying is expensive. And lying needs to be expensive. I think that that's a good result of 2023. And I think the message that you cannot be all things because you are a couple of great things is an important one too.  

Sarah [00:21:45] Yeah. No, I think the bill is coming due in very concrete ways because to me it feels like I do think we sort of had a conversation this year about the racial reckoning in 2020. And you know what this popularly described as woke politics. And I think it's unfortunate that one of the conclusions seemed to be like, well, it didn't work, as I don't think that's true. I think consequences that are built into our cultural infrastructure take time. They take things like a legal system that doesn't move at the speed of social media. And so these bills coming due, be it Twitter being ran into the ground or defamation lawsuits or God in heaven, that 2024 will be a year when the bill really comes due for Donald Trump; although, I think 2023 was some of that, I think we're seeing the beginning of that. I just think we're hopefully learning that. This is not a marvel movie. We don't have a viral tweet where we all have a revelation and then things get blown up and the bad people fall off a very tall building. That's not how it works, even when there are issues of huge importance and ethical consequence. Things move slowly, and I think with Elon you're seeing that he's learning that. Well, I don't know. I want what you want for Elon. I don't know if he's capable of it, but we'll find out I think in 2024.  

Beth [00:23:07] The other side of bills coming due is a real examination of what's the appropriate bill. I was thinking about that this morning. This poor Senate staffer who was caught having sex at work.  

Sarah [00:23:20] Oh, I didn't hear about that. What happened?  

Beth [00:23:23] It is all over the Internet. A staffer for Senator Ben Cardin was, I guess, videotaped having sex. And it's two men. And so this person not only has the embarrassment of being caught making a mistake that a lot of people have made.  

Sarah [00:23:43] Humiliation, embarrassed is not a big enough word. 

Beth [00:23:45] Yes, the humiliation of it. This person is also enduring a barrage of hate-filled attacks because his work sex was with another man. And it's awful. And it makes me so upset. And we're not good at calibrating like, okay, you can't have sex at work especially if you work in the Senate, okay? In a hearing room, you cannot do that. And you probably should lose your job for it because that's not okay. But then you should not be publicly shamed for it. And you certainly shouldn't be subjected to hatred and bigotry over it. You did a thing that lots of people do and you got caught. And I'm sorry.  

Sarah [00:24:24] Who was harmed?  

Beth [00:24:25] That's right. Who was harmed by this? Except this person. This person is being harmed by it. And so figuring out the size of the bill, this is a constant struggle I have as a parent. Your actions have consequences, but we don't need to make those consequences worse than they have to be. All of it should point towards redemption. And what can you learn and how can you be the best version of you? I don't know that Rudy Giuliani will ever pay a dime to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. And I don't know that him paying the full amount could undo what they've been subjected to. It can't. So we have imperfect tools to try to ferret out justice in a world where we all screw up all the time. I don't know what's fair for Elon Musk when you consider the balance of things that he is and that he holds. But I do agree with you that something that could pull him back from X would probably be good for him and good for all of us.  

[00:25:24] Music Interlude.  

Sarah [00:25:40] Okay, Beth, we've gone big culturally. We've gone small individually with Elon. Let's talk about the entire planet.  

Beth [00:25:48] Easy peasy.  

Sarah [00:25:49] Easy peasy lemon squeezy. We're going to kick it off with Fareed Zakaria, who wrote a piece in Foreign Affairs called The Self-Doubting Superpower; America Shouldn't Give Up on the World It Made. And let me tell you why I love this piece so much, because I am really tired of the end of empire, late stage capitalism. America's the worst. When you said redemption, I thought, I hope that is the trend. And it feels like it is. I have heard that word more in articles, in conversations with my friends about like, well, where's the redemption? Where are we going to talk about. What do we do about this? I had a visceral reaction when we had Yascha Mounk in his book when he talked about some people feel racism is permanent. Every cell in my body went, "No, that's not the world I want to live in." And I do feel like there has been a lot of thinking and writing and effort into saying l redemption is available. Improvement is available. There are still good things happening. How do we build on those? And we have done it, we have identified the problem. Not for all time. Obviously, we have to keep our eye forever and always on corruption and fraud and systemic issues. But this piece, I think, laid out a really good case for all is not lost. We have good tools in front of us. We have good things to build upon. And it's time to start talking about that redemptive path instead of just miring in the issues.  

Beth [00:27:28] This reminds me of a conversation I had with my eight year old daughter yesterday who was very upset and I wanted to take her upsetness seriously, even though none of us could really understand the source of it. And I said to her, "Hey, there is how you're feeling, and that's hard. And then there are the facts. And the facts are that right now you are loved and you are safe and you are about to leave this house and go have dinner with some of your very favorite friends. You'll come home here and play with those friends until bedtime, and then you have two days of school and it's Christmas break. So your feelings are hard and the facts are that things are very good right now."  

Sarah [00:28:10] Listen, my favorite line from Mean Girls, "When you're feeling attacked, that's a feeling not a fact."  

Beth [00:28:17] And I don't mean to say that in a way that's dismissive of the times we live in. I do find a lot of solace when I read articles about how many more people have access to safe drinking water than ever in human history, how electricity has changed our lives for good. But I'll show you this other metaphor that I used recently with someone. It is easy to feel like we are dropping balls constantly because there are so many problems that are so consequential that we feel are solvable. We just have to count the balls that we're catching too, and we're catching a lot of balls. And it's hard to stop and pause and say yay for those that we've caught when we still see all those that are dropping. And our use of social media are kind of negativity bias that's just ingrained in us. It's swimming upstream to count the balls that we've caught, but that's good work.  

Sarah [00:29:12] Well, this is why I like this article and I thought it was really good. It felt very much like that moment in the Red State-Blue State debate when Gavin Newsom said California is peerless and let me remind you why. And I think because of social media, because of negativity bias, because of the emphasis on identifying the problems specifically with America, it is easy. And I have definitely lost sight of this. So many pieces of this article shocked me. I was shocked to forget that we are still peerless in so many ways. And it's easy to lose sight of that, and it's easy to forget that is a power and a responsibility. And that doesn't mean that our politics aren't hard, that this Congress was a mess. But when he just lays all these out, you're like, "Oh, yeah, I forgot. Totally." This is the part they pulled in Axios. This is how I found this article. Of the 10 most valuable companies in the world in 1989, only four were American. The other six were Japanese. Today, nine of the top 10 are American companies. The top 10 most valuable U.S. technology companies have a total market capitalization greater than the combined value of the stock markets of Canada, France, Germany and the United Kingdom.  

Beth [00:30:36]  I think much of that is because the empire framing is not exactly right about the United States of America.  

Sarah [00:30:44] Did I have that conversation with my 14 year old this weekend? I did. Thank you so much for bringing it up.  

Beth [00:30:48] I think it would be helpful if we took less for granted how much people want to be a part of the United States of America? The companies that perform at the absolute top of the most cutting edge fields on Earth do so because people from all over the world become part of those companies. They want to come to America to be part of those efforts with a team of other people from all over the world. And that is an incredible strength that we forget. And they want to do it here in a place where they can publish open letters about the company culture and donate to campaigns that are sometimes insurgent, that challenge the power structure here because we have the freedom to do all of those things. And I really believe in spite of everything, it is that freedom and that opportunity that you have here that is unique and that sets us apart from the rest of the world. And that's why I have always been a sucker for American exceptionalism, because I think that while we struggle with some things uniquely too, you only have to spend a few minutes in conversation with someone who lives anywhere else, even a place that we are jealous of many aspects of their social safety net or their culture or their food or whatever, to recognize that the whole world sees that America is different. We are set apart in many ways, and it creates unbelievable opportunity and unbelievable responsibility for us.  

Sarah [00:32:23] Well, and it's not just the tech companies, right? We're leaders and in developing areas that are going to be the next frontier in artificial intelligence, in biotech, in energy. I mean, some of the statistics he puts in here about energy, we are the world's largest producer of oil and gas. We are massively expanding our production of green energy. This is crazy. Combined power generated by wind solar is slated to eclipse coal fired electricity next year. Eclipse coal fired electricity. This was ta really cool statistic in the article. It says in 2004, it took one year to install one gigawatt of solar power. In 2023, we installed one gigawatt of solar power every single day. Every day. So this economic capacity, be it in energy, be it in tech-- I think because it gets the clicks to write an article about how China's going to surpass us. But I think what I learned this year about China, about Russia, either China's economy, the vaccines they develop, all of this, it's so fragile. It's not a resilient type of power. And there's a lot of fear mongering about the global currency. Did you see that thing about how everybody's buying gold bars at Costco?  

Beth [00:33:40] I did. I've told everybody about that. I cannot stop talking about the Costco gold bars.  

Sarah [00:33:43] Stop it. The dollar remains the currency used in almost 90% of international transactions. Why are you all out there talking about gold bars?  

Beth [00:33:54] I think everyone needs to read about the Venezuelan election period because it is fascinating and such a ride. But the fact that a candidate won election to the presidency in Venezuela saying I want to put us on the U.S. dollar as our currency, tells you a lot.  

Sarah [00:34:12] Yeah. So this idea of this fear mongering about this is all changed, you just read all this and you're like, oh, man, it's just because there's this total content need of telling people-- and listen, this is a horseshoe. There is a subset of the Internet on the right that wants you to believe that everything's falling apart in America and that you should stock up on grain and gold bars. And there is a subset of the Internet on the left that wants you to read all about how America is a dying empire in late stage capitalism and blah, blah, blah. This is consistent. You look at this information, you read the statistics and you think, oh, man, this is a fun shtick, but it's really not based in reality.  

Beth [00:34:55] I think the same thing about the Federal Reserve. Our entire adult lives, someone has been talking to us about the evils of the Federal Reserve, again, both left and right. I don't know about you, but I find myself feeling very grateful for the work of the Federal Reserve over the past two years.  

Sarah [00:35:14] Round of applause for Jerome Powell this year, everybody.  

Beth [00:35:20] Again, I'm not holding anybody to a standard of perfection. That is the practice of joy too where you just say, "Yeah, I'm sure there are some problems. I'm sure there are some things if I looked under the hood I would not like."  

Sarah [00:35:30] He is the damn Sully Sullenberger. This soft landing he is brought [crosstalk] seagulls were flying into the jet engines, guys. I think it was geese. You get what I'm saying?  

Beth [00:35:41] I do, and I agree with that.  

Sarah [00:35:43] Lord. So now the point of this is not just to be like, we're so great. The point of this article is to say we still have enormous influence on the world stage and that matters. You have to acknowledge your influence. You have to acknowledge your capacity in your power before you can exercise it. I mean, he talks about demographics. Yes, we are not replacing ourselves. This was the one that got me. One in five of all people on Earth who live outside their country of birth live in the United States. One in five. Our immigration population is nearly four times that of Germany, the next largest immigration hub. That's the power because we are different. We offer something different. And I think not to just be purely political and pragmatic about it since we're going into an election year, but I think that if you want a winning political message, like I think the reason Democrats have lost so much influence among the immigrant part of the Democratic coalition is because I think immigrants see this, feel it. And so to have people standing up and being like, "We're the worst, nobody wants to come here. Nobody should want to come here. What's even the appeal of America?" When you've given up everything to be here because you see the appeal, I bet it's annoying. I bet it's annoying and it rings very false.  

Beth [00:36:56] Well, we know that right from the time that we've spent talking to people who've immigrated here. And we've said it before, we'll say it again. Spend one Uber ride--  

Sarah [00:37:07] One Uber ride, guys. It's only takes one.  

Beth [00:37:08] With someone who worked very hard to come through a legal process to be here in America. And you will hear why they do not like anything that sounds like it disparages their motivation or the hard work they put in to get here, or the hard work they're putting in to doing to stay here and to build a better future for themselves. I just hope and pray that these conversations happening in Congress right now about immigration-- 

Sarah [00:37:34] Oh gosh, please, Christmas miracle.  

Beth [00:37:37] Can get us to a place where we say what the vast majority of people, I think, in this country believe. That it is wonderful that people want to come here. I don't want to live in a place that people don't want to come to.  

Sarah [00:37:50] No, I don't. I don't either.  

Beth [00:37:51] We want to be the place that people want to come to. We have all of this economic prowess because we are a place that people want to come to. We want to continue to have that. We want to continue to be leaders of all the things. And disorder in that process hurts and degrades everyone. It must be an orderly process. I think that's where almost everybody is on this. So let's just figure that out.  

Sarah [00:38:20] I pray for this Christmas miracle, New Year's miracle, Martin Luther King Day miracle. I'm not even picky about the deadline for this miracle, but I do feel like they're motivated. I feel like I got a good feeling about it. I'm just going to be honest. I got a good feeling about the Biden administration's capacity to do this and their motivation based on their concerns about Ukraine and the conflict in Gaza. I'm just saying.  

Beth [00:38:43] I think everyone has the highest stake they've ever had in trying to figure this out. And sometimes that's what it takes.  

Sarah [00:38:53] And, look, this is relevant to Fareed Zakaria's overall point. I want to read this directly. He says, "If America is consumed by exaggerated fears of its own decline retreats from its leading role in world affairs, it will open up power vacuums across the globe and encourage a variety of powers and players to try to step into the disarray." That's it, right? If we cannot sort it out, if we cannot see our own position and influence clearly, it's back to our conversation with Hillary Clinton, do you want to live there? Who else would you like leading? Because if we say we have no right or we are tainted in some way and cannot participate in this, do you think China and Russia are going to feel the same? Do you think they're going to worry about their own ethical standing on the world stage? They're not. They don't care.  

Beth [00:39:37] That information is obvious now. You look across the world and the isolationists who say that America has no role here would say, well, China is a sovereign nation. We've done that. China's a sovereign nation. They can treat the wiggers however they want to. Their labor practices are not our business. They have a right to govern themselves. But then China has said, "Yes, we are a sovereign nation, we have the right to govern ourselves, and also Hong Kong and probably Taiwan soon, and the whole of the South China Sea where we're building artificial islands." Do you think that there's going to be an outer limit to that? There is not going to be. Vladimir Putin said, "None of your business how I treat people in Russia, we're a sovereign nation. We can do what we want, but also we're just going to take Crimea and now we're going to invade Ukraine." And if you've ever been to the Baltic states, you know that they wait for the day when he decides he's going there next. It doesn't stop. You could say the same thing about Hamas. I'm sorry, their version of liberation does not involve liberty for anyone, and it would not stop with the destruction of Israel. Absolutely nothing in the history of this part of the world indicates that it would. I hate war. I view every war as a failure. I hate the idea of American made weapons killing people. I hate the idea of American troops on the ground anywhere else. And you pick the worlds you want to live in, and you look at these options when there are people who have shown us repeatedly that they're not just trying to be a sovereign nation doing their own thing within their borders, and we've got to figure out how to lead. And I think this administration has worked really hard on that. I don't think they've batted a thousand, but damn, if you're even close to 500 in matters that are this high stakes and complicated, you're doing something. And I think that they are.  

Sarah [00:41:33] Well, what I really hope and pray is that the things we were talking about at the beginning of the episode, these cultural trends, and this will align. And what I mean by that is The Economist had a big cover piece about income inequality and how it's shifting and how workers are empowered and people are getting paid more and there's more security. We see a lot of heat out of the health care discussion. Health care is not perfect, but for the most part, people seem satisfied. There's not a lot of heat around that because people are getting health insurance and they're getting care. And I just think everything's not perfect. That doesn't mean we still don't have problems or systemic issues. But I don't think we're in some sort of acute critical triage because people cannot make good decisions in that mindset. People cannot be educated, informed voters in that mindset when there's like a five alarm fire all the time. And what I hope is that this combination of easing of some of the pressures around our individual existences, that you see some equilibrium around the labor market, that you see some hopefully equilibrium around other sort of cost of living. I think that the biggest missing piece for people right now is we just have a housing shortage. We just don't have enough stock. But hopefully some of the inflationary pressures easing, that soft landing that Jerome Sully Sullenberger pal has found for us, maybe that will help that. And the infrastructure spending. And all these pieces of the puzzle will come so like that animal part of our brain under threat can just quiet ever so slightly so we can find a path forward on immigration, so we can find our way out of this isolationist tendency so we're not all so easily tempted by that populist narrative in the United States and in Europe and other places and in the Sahel, in Africa, where we can find some place for people to take a breath and say, I don't have to be in this locked down mindset. I don't have to feel like it's us against them and I've got to protect my people. If we can find some space for everybody to take a breath to say we don't just have to protect ourselves, we can find a way to move forward with a positive framework to influence and improve and make some gains.  

Beth [00:43:54] Honestly, Sarah, I think what you're saying is so important electorally too. Going into 2024, I feel like Democrats always want to make a laundry list of all of the good work that's being done. And they get frustrated that it doesn't work because people can't process a laundry list. But the fundamental message I am here to do the blocking and tackling of good governance and I don't want to radically change your life is a good one. I don't think anybody wants a revolution right now. Actually, of course, some people do. Some people always want something.  

Sarah [00:44:32] They always do. They live for it. It's a personality.  

Beth [00:44:35] A coalition of voters that can deliver high offices to two candidates. I think that coalition does not want a revolution right now. I think the status quo has been disrupted more than enough for a lot of people for a long time. And what they want is for things to get a little bit better. I feel really good this morning reading about how Southwest has been fined for the chaos at Christmas last year. And the government has said you're going to put some money away in case you caused that chaos again so that you can pay people out if you disrupt their lives too much. That's where governments at its best don't disrupt people's lives too much. Let people live. And if you outside actor interfere with them living, we're going to come in and say no because my job is to clear a path for you to live happily and well as you see fit. I think that's really complicated to do when the base of your party is built around a lot of groups that do want to revolutionize everything all the time and they have a lot of ideas and a lot of energy. And a lot of those ideas are good ideas, and a lot of that energy comes from a great place. But right now I think most people are like, "Can I just get through the day? Can we just get through the day as I expected?"  

Sarah [00:45:54] And don't tell me about how everything's the worst. I don't want to hear that anymore.  

Beth [00:45:57] Yeah, I don't want to hear that everything's the worst. I don't want to hear that I'm the worst. I don't want to hear that absolutely everything has to change immediately or it's all going to fall apart. I just want to see things on the margins and on a trajectory getting better all the time. I read this great article about the substance abuse landscape in northern Kentucky this morning, where I live, where we are at the intersection of all these literal highways and we are flooded with drugs and I hate that. And that is a crisis and it is an emergency. There are not big enough words for how much that affects people's lives here. And there are so many organizations just doing really good work around that and trying new things and helping people and delivering the message don't buy Xanax college student around finals because so many people are buying $5 pill pressers off Amazon and taking whatever substances they've got to sell to you and telling you it's Xanax when it's laced with God knows what. Like that good baseline work being done everywhere all the time, if we can see more of that, I feel like that's the winning message next year.  

Sarah [00:47:12] Yeah. Now, and look, that outliers is hard because on the other side of the aisle you have this ahistorical situation where we have a candidate; although, I got to say, these New Hampshire numbers with Nikki Haley-- side note.  

Beth [00:47:26] It's looking better.  

Sarah [00:47:28]  I was like, Nikki, you are within spitting distance. Everybody else drop out right now. Damn, guys. I'm taking us way far off. We were wrapping this up. But I just have to say this. I think that's why that PAC person quit or got pushed out at Ron DeSantis PAC. I feel like there must be a moment where they're like, okay, are we actually doing this to stop Trump? Are we doing this for your ego? Because if we're trying to stop Trump, we need to support Nikki. So I created this whole telenovela in my head in the background, the DeSantis campaign that I have no evidence for. But I'm just telling you that's what I think is happening. And you know what? This does fit because I think this is a positive trend.  

Beth [00:48:02] You have more faith in the player involved there [inaudible] than I do. But I'll still take it.  

Sarah [00:48:07] Well, maybe it's the other people that I have faith in that shoved him out. You know what I'm saying? He doesn't have to be that person. Maybe it was somebody else.  

Beth [00:48:14] However it's happening, I like your telenovela. I would watch it. I think that for me the good news in that New Hampshire poll is that if you start to add up some of those other numbers, you can compete with Trump. And that hasn't been true for a long time. Now, I get that if DeSantis goes, Trump is a lot of those people second choice. So I get that it doesn't exactly go that way, but there does seem to be a softening, and I think that softening has got to expand as we get into January. And he is spending a lot more time in court and posting a lot more crazy things on Truth Social. You can see the pressure building on him. We don't analyze his every sentence, thank God, anymore.  

Sarah [00:49:01] But they're getting really accelerated.  

Beth [00:49:03] They're bad sentences.  

Sarah [00:49:04] They're bad sentences.  

Beth [00:49:06] And I think that's going to matter. I have to believe it matters. That's where I am. I just must believe that it matters.  

Sarah [00:49:14] I do, too, guys. So we've moved into a little bit of a predictive portion of the program, but I'm fine with it. 

Beth [00:49:20]  Because hope bats last.  

Sarah [00:49:21] Hope bats last. That's exactly right. Exactly right. But maybe fast for 2024, that's what we're trying to make happen here at Pantsuit Politics.  

[00:49:30] Music Interlude.  

[00:49:41] Beth, [inaudible] of the year. Everybody's thinking about it. We're getting our ducks in a row. What's your word for 2024? Your word of the year?  

Beth [00:49:50] My word for 2024 is citrus. Walk with me.  

Sarah [00:49:53] Citrus?  

Beth [00:49:54] Yes.  

Sarah [00:49:55] That's not what I thought you were going to say.  

Beth [00:49:57] Well, I really like to cook, and I don't know of a thing sweet, savory otherwise, that isn't better with some citrus.  

Sarah [00:50:07] Yeah, I like lemon. Yeah. [Inaudible] It's so true. Yes. Okay, I got you.  

Beth [00:50:10] You add some lemon, you add some orange zest, you add a splash of lime, and you are really taking it to the next level.  

Sarah [00:50:17] Is citrus acid? Is that what we're adding with citrus? Is the acid.  

Beth [00:50:22] Yes, citrus is the acid, I think so. I just think citrus is a particularly perfect form of acid, though. Like, my word is not vinegar, you know what I'm saying? But yes.  

Sarah [00:50:33] Yeah, okay, that's fine. But my husband always says that. He's always like, it's need some acid. And I'm like, I don't know what that means. But then he does it and he was right.  

Beth [00:50:41] And vinegar will do that a lot. Like, it just uplifts that little bit of brightness and sharpness. It uplifts. And so that's what I am focused on for 2024. Whatever is in front of me: a crappy piece of chicken, a beautiful chocolate cake, whatever it is, I just want to find the thing that you give a hint more and it brings it up a notch.  

Sarah [00:51:05] I like that you use the citrus instead of brightness or bright.  

Beth [00:51:09] Yes, because the citrus is very concrete for me and I think that's what I need. And it's a lovely image. It's colorful, it's cheerful.  

Sarah [00:51:15] I think you're going to get so much orange graphic things. You're going to get lemon tea towels. You're going to get orange picture frames.  

Beth [00:51:27] Let me tell everyone, citrus stuff is not what I'm going for. I love you. Thank you for bringing this up, Sarah, because I do not want the lemon tea towels. I really, really respect people who go that route and try to be thoughtful and that way. It's not citrus stuff that I'm looking for. It's just for me a very concrete way to say at the end of something when I work on an outline for More to Say, when I'm doing my research for the episode, when I'm thinking about my kids birthdays, whatever it is, okay, where's my zest? Where's my juice? What is the thing that I am just putting into this to take it in a little distinctive, uplifted direction?  

Sarah [00:52:06] Well, your point about the stuff leads me to my word. Well, and I've and I thought about it and I keep thinking, is this too negative of a word? Am I going to invoke something I don't want to at this word? But once the word hits the hits and you can't exit, I've done this long enough I know the feeling. And my word is less.  

Beth [00:52:31] I think that's good.  

Sarah [00:52:33] I want less stuff in my house. That's how this started. There's too much stuff in my house. I want less of it. And I'm just feeling of those Marie Kondo phases where we transition to a new phase in our family and everything else needs to transition with us. So I need less stuff. I've also been thinking a lot about something my friend Smith said to me while we were having our friend weekend in New York. He said, "You feel strongly about everything. You have an opinion on everything. That must be exhausting." And I thought, yeah, maybe I could just have less on the whole, like, passionate about every single thing. Maybe I could just be neutral on some stuff. I don't know if I have that capacity, but I'm going to try to find out in 2024. So I'm trying just a little less. Just a little less so I can enjoy the zest in my life even more.  

Beth [00:53:23] I don't think less has negative energy, but it's probably because in my head as soon as you say less, I hear karma but better.  

Sarah [00:53:31] Yeah, I like that.  

Beth [00:53:32] I think that is where you are in a lot of ways, right? Fewer clothes, but nicer clothes. Fewer things, but things that we are really going to love and appreciate and enjoy. I think that's a good energy.  

Sarah [00:53:44] Yeah. Less time on my phone, obviously. Forever and always. So I'm just trying to coalesce around some things, using that word as a guideline. Less but better.  

Beth [00:53:53] There's a savoring quality, I think.  

Sarah [00:53:57] Savor, I love that. You're zesting and I'm savoring. I'm not going to take up cooking. I just want to be clear about that. That's not my journey for 2024. I do live in perpetual fear that one day Nicholas will show up and be like, hey, I'm retiring. That will be tough.  

Beth [00:54:13] I think that the reason it's important to me to do citrus versus brightness or zest or something like that is because the other thing citrus makes me think of is like it's a very humble way to do it. It's a little something.  

Sarah [00:54:28] Okay.  

Beth [00:54:29] There's usually an orange or a lemon or a lime somewhere in my kitchen. It's like, use what you have to improve this.  

Sarah [00:54:35] I like that.  

Beth [00:54:36] And it's small. It's just a small step that takes it over the top. And I think that that's kind of consistent with that spirit of less too. Because if you said brightness or something, you could feel compelled to go really big with everything. But I think citrus is like, no, I'll just say right here.  

Sarah [00:54:54] One year my word was humble. My word for 2023, which was blessing. And I feel like this year has been a blessing on very many levels. And so I think with less I want to hone in on what made it a blessing. I want to hone in on what works because I think I am coming to a phase of my life where I'm not trying to buy the organizational system, buy the new thing, acquire the new clothes. I want to use what I have to the best of my ability. I want to find a way to not shoot all over myself, not consume as a way to move myself. Because it's always better. Like with the wardrobe, I just think about it's always more fun when I find what I have and put together a new outfit than when I find a new outfit on Instagram and then just buy the outfit. You know what I mean? Like, it's way more fun to find used things you love already and put them together and find a way to to do that. And so I just want to chase that feeling in lots of areas in my life this year.  

Beth [00:55:56] I like it.  

[00:55:58] I love it. You guys, 2024 is going to be a big year and we're going to be here together. So much happening. But together is all we have 2023, 2024, whatever year. And I don't know about you, Beth. I wouldn't spend it with anybody but you. And I wouldn't spend it with anybody but our audience 100%.  

Beth [00:56:15] Greatest blessing of my life. What a grace.  

Sarah [00:56:18] Thank you for being with us today, every episode, all year long, we are so excited for what's to come next year. We love you. We'll see you then. Have the best holidays available to you.  

[00:56:29] Music Interlude.  

Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. 

Beth: Alise Napp is our managing director. Maggie Penton is our director of Community Engagement. Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima. 

Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Molly Kohrs. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. Emily Neesley. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family. 

Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller. 

Maggie PentonComment