The Complicated Position of Vice President Kamala Harris

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • Political Travel Around the World

  • Vice President Kamala Harris

  • Outside of Politics: The Asbury Revival and Lent

Thank you for being a part of our community! We couldn't do it without you. To support the show, please subscribe to our Premium content on our Patreon page or Apple Podcasts Subscriptions, or share the word about our work in your circles. Sign up for our newsletter or follow us on Instagram to keep up with everything happening in the Pantsuit Politics world. You can find information and links for all our sponsors on our website.

EPISODE RESOURCES

Sarah and Beth’s Upcoming Public Events

POLITICIANS ON THE MOVE

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS

TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:08] And this is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.  

Beth [00:00:25] We are so glad that you're here for a new episode of Pantsuit Politics. Today, we're on the move. The president of the United States took a secret trip to Kiev. Members of Congress are traveling all over the country and the world, and the vice president keeps showing up in lots of unexpected places. We're going to talk about all this travel and we're going to zoom in on Vice President Harris. We want to talk about her portfolio, the critiques of her and the dynamics surrounding her 2024 role. And because that's not going to be controversial enough, we're going to close discussing what's on our minds Outside of Politics, which is religion. We'll talk a little bit about the Asbury revival and our own Lent practices. And we just want to say at the top of the show today, our intention here is to be curious, to learn more about and from each other including all of you. We aren't trying to convince you of anything about politics or religion. We just want to start a conversation that continues long after the episode.  

Sarah [00:01:18] And we've been having so much fun getting back on the road and having these types of conversations in person. We are consistently adding upcoming events to our website, so you can always check there to see the most up to date list. Right now, we're excited about our trip to East Tennessee State University next week. We'll be speaking at their Festival of Ideas on Tuesday evening, February 28th. And then we head to Texas in March to be at Abilene Christian University on Wednesday, March 22nd, and East Dallas Christian Church on Thursday, March 23rd. And of course, we're going to have our big live show in Orlando on Wednesday, April 5th. There is more info about all these events in our show notes, and we are so excited that we will meet so many of you in the next few months. I also want to say before we move forward into this episode, VIP today goes to Beth, who is very, very sick but still recording the episode for us. So, if it seems a little shorter or different than a normal episode, that is why. She is making the big sacrifices and showing up and being the team player of all team players today.  

Beth [00:02:19] Well, thank you. It takes a team too especially when I feel so bad. So, I appreciate everybody. Up next, we are going to talk about all the travel happening with our president and our members of Congress. As you probably have seen, President Biden made a surprise visit to Kiev while on a diplomatic trip to Poland, four days before the one-year mark since Russia invaded Ukraine. And this trip took an unbelievable amount of planning and coordination and just physical stamina. It was a 23-hour trip to Kiev. He flew, not on Air Force One, to Poland, drove for an hour, and then took a ten-hour train ride into Kiev.  

Sarah [00:03:07] Well, he does love the trains, though. The trains are his favorite.  

Beth [00:03:09] It's true.  

Sarah [00:03:10] It was quite the logistical challenge. But what totally caught me off guard because I just assumed this was like super secretive-- I mean, so many parts of it were secretive. He was sneaking out of the White House at dark. They were turning the transponder off on the plane that they told Moscow he was coming. They were like, hey, guys, heads up. Well, nobody needs an international incident here because the backdrop of all this, the anniversary, the security conference in Munich, is that we really are just breaking away totally and completely from any relationship with Russia and vice versa, that they would tell him. I guess it makes sense. It just really caught me off guard.  

Beth [00:03:51] I think it is such a reminder of the difference between dealing with state and non-state actors, because even when they are adversaries state actors often have these formal approaches, some rules of the road. We try so hard to keep things on a path of stability, even in a war where we think Russia is truly the aggressor, a completely unjust war where we're arming Russia's adversary, we still try to keep things on some kind of track. And I find that really comforting. And I also find it really scary to imagine what is known in the world that necessitates a trip like this being so quiet even when we've given a heads up to Russia.  

Sarah [00:04:34] Overall, it was a really encouraging moment because I thought the foreign policy news overall this weekend was pretty hard. There was reporting that China is thinking of offering aid and arms to Russia to continue this war. North Korea fired some anti-ballistic missiles, I believe. It was hard. It was hard to see and realize, particularly after Putin's big speech where he said that they're going to pull back from the START nuclear treaty, that this is where we're heading. Iran is getting closer and closer to nuclear grade weapons. It is just becoming clearer and clearer that on one side we're going to have Iran and North Korea and Russia and China. And on the other side, the West.  

Beth [00:05:22] I think what's even more concerning about that configuration is that it means that we have all kinds of countries in the world who are sort of at play for those countries to bring into alliances. What that means for Africa, what it means for countries in the Indo-Pacific, what it means for Central America and South America. There's just a lot that results from that sort of Cold War configuration that we seem to be returning to in a new way. And I think that means that symbolic gestures are going to become very, very important. Again, not that they've ever been unimportant, but it was a big deal that the U.S. president went to Kiev. And you see in the pictures just the gravity of something like this. They only let one photographer and one reporter go with them, but the gravity of those images will last forever.  

Sarah [00:06:12] Yeah. And you can see that with not only his travel, but like you said, everybody was on the move. Republicans were in the UAE. We had lots of congressional presence at the Munich Security Conference. I had the sense that the world is changing. They're reacting. And it just had a very like post-COVID. Okay. We've been neglecting things. Even the START treaty, we didn't do inspections all through COVID. They started inspections and Russia was, like, we don't want to. Even this post-COVID, okay, how are we going to realign what needs care, what needs attention? You can feel that energy coming from the U.S. as leaders in both the executive and legislative branch travel.  

Beth [00:06:52] There were a small minority of House Republicans who were against Biden's trip to Kiev. For the most part, it won bipartisan accolades. But a small minority of House Republicans believe that we should stop providing any aid to Ukraine and said President Biden should have been attending to issues here in the United States. But we did have leaders attending to issues here in the United States. Hakeem Jeffries, the new minority leader for Democrats, went with Representative Henry Cuellar to Laredo, Texas. And the reporting on this trip was fascinating to read about. I like how direct Henry Cuellar can be sometimes. He said usually Democrats come to the border, they go to NGOs, they hug all of the refugees and then they leave. And Republicans come down to the border and they hang out with Border Patrol for a while and they don't talk to anybody else and they leave. And he said, I wanted this trip to be a healthy balance. So, they talked to border agents, they talked to nuns doing work at the border. They talked to people who had made the journey and are really trying to get a better sense of what are the needs of these communities and how should Congress be responding to these needs. And I found that really encouraging. There were also critiques from House Republicans that President Biden went to Ukraine instead of going to East Palestine, Ohio, the site of that train derailment that has left so many concerns about toxicity in the air and water. The administration announced that the EPA administrator, Michael Reagan, will be going to East Palestine, Ohio, this week. Pete Buttigieg, secretary of transportation, says he'll be going there soon as well. As we see all this travel from officials of different parts of our government, they are going to be hard pressed to keep up with the vice president because Vice President Harris is on the road all the time.  

Sarah [00:08:32] While she doesn't have to be that 51st vote anymore.  

Beth [00:08:35] So next up, we're going to talk more about what she is up to, what she has planned, and her 2024 role.  

Gayle King [00:08:51] Joe Biden supporters said he had a great night that he was on. He was firing on all cylinders. It's being described as a soft launch for the presidential campaign. Which leads me to you because I want to know how you're feeling. Your supporters are saying you personally are taking a lot of incoming. Will she be on the ticket? Will she not be on the ticket? She seems to be in a damned if she does, damned if she doesn't situation. How are you feeling about the job these days that you're doing and people's perception of you on the ticket?  

VP Kamala Harris [00:09:19] Well, let me first of all say, as the president has said, he intends to run, and if he does, I'll be running with him. As it relates to the work of being vice president, listen, I love the American people. Today, for example, I'm going to be traveling to Atlanta, Georgia, to meet with a bunch of college students about the work we're doing on the climate crisis. We are doing, again, historic work that's about creating jobs, but also investing in a clean energy economy. Tomorrow, I'm going to be in Minnesota. Yesterday, I convened a bunch of foreign policy experts around an upcoming trip, my second trip to Munich, Germany, to speak on behalf of the American people at the Munich Security Conference. There's important good work that's happening, and I take the job very seriously, and I'm honored to serve.  

Beth [00:10:05] Kamala Harris is the 49th vice president of the United States, the first woman, the first person of color to serve in that role. Right now, she is one of the most whispered about factors in the 2024 race. Her supporters think she is constantly and unfairly dismissed, often because of racism and misogyny. Her detractors believe she has had enough time to prove herself and has failed to do that. And a whole bunch of people worry that whatever the facts, it is too dangerous to nominate her to be the vice president again or to be the president, and it is too dangerous to replace her on the ticket with President Biden if he runs again. So, let's talk about some of the dynamics at work. Sarah, you mentioned that she doesn't have to cast tiebreaking votes anymore. That is one of her constitutional duties and she has done it a lot.  

Sarah [00:10:48] Yeah, it kept her pretty close to home. I think there was frustration if you read the reporting among her staff, that she was doing that so much and so often. She cast 26 tiebreaking votes in the Senate. The all-time record is 31 by John C Calhoun, who's terminated in 1832. So, she was spending a lot of time doing that. And it's not that it's not important and vital, but it's not necessarily building out her portfolio in I think the way she and her staff wanted.  

Beth [00:11:18] And it also always keeps her in the public eye in a way that seems negative. That she's doing this divisive act, breaking the tie in the body. I think it's helpful to remember too that when she sits in that role as president of the Senate, she is the only black woman in that body. There are no black women senators right now. She was the only one when she was the senator for California. And so just her presence there is really important. But as you said, it prevents her from being out and visible on other issues. And she has a lot of domestic priorities she's been focused on. One of those is prioritizing water. She is talking a lot about global water security, but she's talking about water domestically too. She's working on removing lead pipes around the country. And she really draws a connection between racial inequality and infrastructure. She says pretty often that your race is the best indicator of what your plumbing looks like in the United States. And so, in connection with this work, she is spending a ton of time in very red parts of the United States. She spends time in tiny communities in Mississippi, Louisiana, places that are not going to vote for Democrats in a presidential year. But she wants to care about these overlooked underserved communities and is making that a priority with her time and her team. And I read that she comes back from these trips with a list of suggestions and she shoots it out to cabinet officials. And it is really making a dent in how people operate.  

Sarah [00:12:47] Well, it also just makes a lot of sense with her experience representing California where water is always an issue, drought is always an issue. And you can see that inequality play out in blue states too. It's not like there aren't small communities in California that are underserved and experience that inequality when it comes to water and other infrastructure issues.  

Beth [00:13:07] She is also the administration's lead on labor and removing barriers to organizing. And labor leaders really like her. I read one person saying she has to pinch herself that the vice president takes labor as seriously as she does. Those are the kinds of issues that might not bear fruit for a long time, but the way she talks about labor, I think, really relates to the way she talks about reproductive rights. She takes these issues to young people. She's on college campuses talking about their rights both in the workplace and reproductive freedom and saying you all have to be the next generation that gets out and stands up for these types of rights.  

Sarah [00:13:46] And, of course, we know she was tasked by the administration with working on the root causes of the migration issue coming across the southern borders. Her first trip abroad was to Guatemala and Mexico, and she really tried to focus on what are some of the issues that are causing people to flee their own country. And border crossings are down. Some think it's because of her efforts to build out these public private partnerships and invest in the Northern Triangle and that's starting to bear fruit. But that's another long game she's playing that's not going to have a quick, flashy turnaround.  

Beth [00:14:16] In general, she is out and about promoting the administration's accomplishments. She's involved in the implementation of the infrastructure legislation, the inflation reduction legislation. This is again where her advocacy for overlooked communities show up. I was reading about her bringing people together soon after the infrastructure legislation was passed and just grilling them on where are these electric car chargers going to be built and what communities are going to be involved in making those decisions? And how are we going to ensure that communities don't get left behind? Who's going to build them? So, she asks really probing questions, which you can imagine. I mean, she's a prosecutor. That's when she really shines when she is getting down to the details of something. And as I've read about her work around big pieces of legislation, it's clear that she's bringing that skill set to the White House. We just don't hear a lot about it.  

Sarah [00:15:03] And then, of course, she's taken on a more diplomatic role for the administration beyond just the northern Triangle. She gave the keynote at the Munich Security Conference we were just talking about and said for the first time that the U.S. believes Russia has committed crimes against humanity in Ukraine. She has been on trips to the Indo-Pacific with lots of summits in the Philippines, Singapore and Vietnam. So, she's building out that aspect of her portfolio as well.  

Beth [00:15:31] So that sounds good and busy and productive. Let's talk about the critiques of Vice President Harris. What really struck me as I was doing this research, Sarah, is that she is more popular outside the United States than in the United States. I think this is a statistic that will surprise almost no one. I've heard women in the workplace say this forever, like the community recognizes me as an expert in my field more than the people I work with every day. And that has been true for her. Her Pew Research Center international confidence ratings are on par with President Biden's and Emmanuel Macron's and Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor. So, all of this travel and all of the meetings that she conducts and the speeches that she gives are certainly increasing the confidence of the world in her leadership.  

Sarah [00:16:16] But she's had some tough media interactions, I think that has contributed to the critique. She had a terrible interview with Lester Holt about immigration early where she came off as very defensive. And that's, of course, led to her being very press shy. It can kind of become a self-perpetuating situation when a politician becomes distrustful of the press or insecure in front of the press. And there's a lot of pettiness in the coverage surrounding her.  

Beth [00:16:40] I think the way I would summarize this pettiness is that everything becomes a story. She was unhappy with a Vogue cover photo of her, and that became a story. The need for her to have a different chair became a story. Just tension between her and the first lady has become a story. Jill Biden never got over the way Harris attacked Joe Biden in that debate when she talked about the bussing situation and has kind of said from the beginning, like, couldn't we have picked someone who did not go after you this way? There are rumors out there about her selection, that she really aggressively campaigned for the job, including smearing some other black women who were being considered. That Joe Biden really wanted to run with Amy Klobuchar, but after George Floyd's murder felt that he had to choose Harris. So just a lot has become a story that is unflattering. I think the sense is that she and her team have a little bit of a chip on their shoulders because they perceive a lot of acts as being acts of disrespect toward her. And that's tough. I remember a couple of months ago, I went to a debate where a Kentucky Supreme Court Justice was referred to as Mrs. Keller instead of Justice Keller during the debate, and it sent me into orbit. I was so angry on her behalf. And as I was thinking about all this press coverage of Vice President Harris, I thought, if I worked for her, the job would be to address that stuff without it becoming a story. And that's just really difficult at this level.  

Sarah [00:18:09] Well, and look, there's no debate that there is some sexism and racism in her coverage. If you want to debate whether there's still sexism in coverage of female politicians, I would like to talk to you about Don Lemon's comments about Nikki Haley over the weekend. It's still there. It still exists and most certainly she's coming into contact with it. But as far as how her staff feels about it, the truth is there's also a lot of negative staffing stories around her in her office, a lot of turnover, a lot of criticism coming from former staff, which is not unheard of in Washington, D.C. We just mentioned Amy Klobuchar, for example. But I think that's also tough to overcome when you're trying to constantly convey that you can be a strong executive.  

Beth [00:18:55] Speaking of racism and misogyny and coverage of her, the right-wing media has had a field day. There are birtherism accusations. She was born in California. She is a U.S. citizen, but her parents are from India and Jamaica. And so that has created a sense, even in like John Eastman memos, about whether she is actually eligible to be the president.  

Sarah [00:19:16] Goodness gracious.  

Beth [00:19:17] There are attacks on her laugh. They talk about how she cackles like a witch. It's awful. They say that President Biden is a puppet for her. There are conspiracy theories about her intention to declare him senile and invoke the 25th Amendment. I mean, it's bad and it's awful. And it all feels like this would not happen to a white man in this role.  

Sarah [00:19:39] Well, listen, this is your friendly reminder. I just reminded myself that it's time to go back to my conservative relatives who told me that this was the case in 2020, that the second he was elected, that he was going to be gone and she was really the goal and they're just trying to get Kamala Harris. It's like when Barack Obama was president and every once in a while would be, like, we still live under Sharia law. Hi. Just a friendly text reminder that we still do live under Sharia law. So, this is a good moment for all of us who text our relatives and be like, "Hi, Kamala Harris is still the vice president, not the president." I just wanted to point that out real quickly. Just to get that out of the way and remind everybody that all the stuff that came out in the 2020 race, that that's what was going to happen the second Joe Biden won was not true.  

Beth [00:20:23] The vice presidency is always like an uphill climb. It's hard to get positive attention. It's easy to get negative attention. In some ways, the less visible you are, the better. But then that makes it nearly impossible to raise your profile for a future run for yourself. There are foreign leaders who have proposed that she meet with the first lady of the countries that she's visiting instead of with them because she's a woman. So those are things that we can't control but are still real factors that she has to combat. And I can see where she would get exhausted with that kind of thing. And then there are times when President Biden does not help. He is quoted in a new book as calling her a work in progress. That's not the energy that she's looking for here. Ron Klain is a very vocal defender of her. He talks about her as his next-door neighbor in the West Wing and how she's so competent. She brings so many skills to the White House, and he wishes everybody could get to know her as he did. So, with all of that as the background, there are a bunch of pieces out there saying that basically in Democratic circles people are panicked, because if Biden runs again they don't think that he can afford to replace her as vice president because that will look terrible because she is a woman of color. They also think that she is a liability on the ticket because of his age, because his age was an issue last time. It's going to be an even bigger issue this time. And I just wonder how you're thinking about those critiques, Sarah.  

Sarah [00:21:46] Well, when we sat down to do this episode, I really did try to take a minute and think what of this is just the vice presidency? Because there's absolutely a narrative that is very difficult to become president after being the vice president, that it's just a tough, tough gig. If you want some psychological background to what it's like to be the Spare, go read Harry's book. That's just a tough position to stand in. And so, I'm really trying to pull apart what of this is being the vice president? Joe Biden was the vice president under Barack Obama, and everybody was like how dare you, no, it's Hillary Clinton. And now he's president, but it wasn't directly after the presidency. Al Gore won the popular vote, lost the Electoral College. It was a very close race. Dick Cheney never seemed to want to run. Mike Pence is not going to waltz into the Republican primary under literally anyone's analysis. George H.W. only served one term. Gerald Ford was struggling. It's just a tough gig. Any way you slice it, it's a tough, tough gig. And being a woman of color is not going to make the gig easier, it's only going to make it harder. So, I think she is struggling under the weight of identity politics, under the weight of this position generally. I think she's doing the best she can. I don't have any historical example to draw on of some just incredibly politically astute vice president who just rocked it from the word go, which to me tells me if I don't have an example then that's not available to us. That this is built into the position. Doesn't mean she can't become the candidate. Doesn't mean she can't become president. It just means that some of this, I think, is baked in.  

Beth [00:23:33] I think that's absolutely right. I also think that the primary critique of her is her media interaction. And it's not like President Biden's good at that. He's gotten better, but it's not like he's great at that. And if they wanted someone who was going to be great at that in the vice president's spot, they have lots of choices. No, they didn't pick her for that reason. And that's okay. I would like to see the administration be either more supportive of her or decide to replace her for the next election. To me, this talk that it's too dangerous to replace her, when you're in that kind of defensive posture, you've already lost. You've got to decide as a leader, no, this is the right person. She's been the right partner for me. She's done an excellent job. And you say that everywhere, all the time, as loudly and as forcefully as possible. And she's absolutely ready to do this job if there's a day when I can't do it. Or, you say, "I have really enjoyed working with her and she's contributed a lot and I thank her so much for her service and I hope she really enjoys her next chapter. And here is who will be running with me in 2024."  

Sarah [00:24:39] Yeah, I don't think she's done anything bad enough to justify that. I think her media interactions are tough. That's not something she can't overcome. I think the reporting about her staff dynamics-- although that has died down tremendously, so hopefully she's working on that. I don't think she's done anything to justify replacing her. Not because it's dangerous to replace her, but because I think what she brought to the ticket the first time she still brings to the ticket. I do not think that she is this overwhelming liability. I really do think so much of that is just how we talk about vice presidents. I mean, there was talk about replacing Pence. Come on, they do it every time. It's like the vice president media industrial complex.  

Beth [00:25:18] I think that what I'm saying is I really do put the responsibility from here on President Biden. When you appoint someone to be a first in a position, you are committing to a lot past that appointment. You are saying I'm going to be here to support you through what I know is going to be a challenging road. And I just think he needs to do that or not. If he really has problems with her, there's a ton that goes on-- I mean, it was difficult to find the information about what she is publicly doing. I'm sure that there's private stuff happening that we don't understand. And whatever it is, it is. I just need the leadership of the White House to say this is what we're doing next. And I wish everybody else would shush about it, honestly.  

Sarah [00:26:01] It seems like they've decided to move forward with her. So, I think we're to the shush portion of the program for sure.  

Beth [00:26:07] We are very interested in hearing from all of you about what you know and don't know about Vice President Harris's work, how you perceive her in her role. And I would especially like to know what would help you make better decisions as you approach 2024. What would help you understand her better? Because I think right now we get pieces that are either really glowing about her to try to counteract the dearth of information and the negative reporting, or we get the pieces that are about everyone's perception. And so, how could we understand her better in this role? Next up, we are going to talk about the Asbury revival and our Lent practices.  

[00:26:54] We always end our show talking about what's on our minds Outside of Politics. And today there are two religious topics that we wanted to discuss. So let me just do the disclaimers. We are Christian, and in talking about our Christianity it is not our intention to alienate anyone who is not Christian. We love everybody. We honor your choices about how to live a good life on your own terms. This is just a part of our lives, and we know that there's a lot of interest out there, especially about Asbury, so we wanted to talk about it today. I knew Sarah that we should talk about Asbury when Chad asked me if we were going to discuss it. I feel like he is a good representation of what's captivating people's attention who don't follow politics closely. Another disclaimer here is that Asbury University is in Kentucky, where we live, but it is not in either of our neck of the woods. It is in Jessamine County, Kentucky, Wilmore, which is outside of Lexington. We went to college in Lexington. I went to law school there. But it's not part of our communities today.  

Sarah [00:27:52] No. Yeah, I was in Charlotte for the weekend with my family and my husband asked me the exact same question. It was everywhere. I had a friend who went in and posted about it on social media and it was all the buzz. I think that's it's arguably not Outside Politics, but we're going to make it work. And I think that's sort of what I want to say is maybe we could leave it Outside Politics just this one time. These are college kids. Now, I think a lot of adults flooded into the town. And my one critique is the coverage that was from the town and the students that were, like, the Lord's working on us, but it's really making traffic bad. Just that was delightful and kind of funny. It is not surprising that any sort of Christian event, but particularly a revival of this sort of spontaneous type that received so much national media coverage, is going to bring forth whatever you feel about Christianity. If you feel correctly that there are huge portions of Christian history that are racist and misogynist, then that's how you're going to talk about it. If you have been harmed by the church, then that is the lens you are going to bring to this. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that the church is big and deep and wide-- in a small place on a famous Christian hymn-- so I think that it's inevitable that it's going to bring all this stuff up for people. But there's a part of it, for me, that because the origin came from such young students, that wanted to let it be. Maybe they will ultimately be harmed by the church. Maybe they ultimately will have these critiques. Maybe they need to see these critiques in the face of a very positive experience. It's their journey to take. We can't help them skip ahead whatever is going to happen in their lives. [Inaudible] wrote about this I thought in a really beautiful way in particular because I love that she called the Internet and social media joy stealers anonymous. And she sort of was like just let them have their joy. If it's simple and it's humble and they're feeling connected to one another and to something bigger, then that's what it is.  

Beth [00:30:15] If this hasn't been blanketing your feeds and your discussion in real life and you're, like, what are they talking about? It is that on February 8th, a morning service at Asbury, a Christian school part of the Wesleyan Holiness tradition, turned into a two-week revival. And by revival we mean there has been nonstop worship for two full weeks and people flooding in to the school that has a population of less than 1700 students in a pretty small town. And the school has sent a pretty clear message that this is for and about its students. Like you were saying, Sarah, it is not a PR campaign for the school. It's not for celebrities. And they have said it is a beautiful thing. It is also really, really hard. Neither the school nor the town has the infrastructure to support this. There are big safety concerns. And in light of all of that, the last public service is going to take place on Wednesday this week. But it has touched a nerve and it is spreading to other campuses. I saw that it's happening at Northern Kentucky University's campus, which is just a few miles away from me now. I wondered what revival meant to you, Sarah? I grew up in, as I've talked about it before, kind of a weird Baptist church. Not at all what you think of when you think Southern Baptist, but we had revivals annually. But that for me meant that we were going to have church for seven days in a row and that there was a lot of music to learn and a lot of meals to be eaten in the church basement. But nothing in my tradition is even close to anything that you would characterize as charismatic. And it was just like a time of focus on church. That's what revival meant for me.  

Sarah [00:31:46] My great Uncle Joe, who recently passed away that I talked about on the show, he was a big revivalist. Him and my Aunt Caroline would travel for revivals. He had a puppet named Rocky that he would do like bits with, and they had a singing group named Trinity that they would travel with and perform and sing at the revivals. And it was pretty charismatic and I was very wrapped up in it as a young child. And to the point we made in the first segment about travel post-COVID, to me, this is a very predictable post-COVID phenomenon. And that we would see this revival when people felt disconnected and discouraged and just sad and angry and hurt about the state of the world and the state of the church. And so, I think this sort of spontaneous uprising, particularly among young people, is completely unsurprising. I think that the trend in social media to use this sort of spontaneous recurrences to examine the history of them is fine and good and well-deserved, and also, we all just don't have to feel the same way about this. People can feel differently. My very beloved friend who went and felt connected-- and she is in a very different place. We grew up in the same church and we took that in very different directions. But I still love her and I still am happy that she went and connected.  I'm happy for the people that get something positive out of this. I don't think it needs to be anything more than that.  

Beth [00:33:25] That is all very closely aligned with my take to the extent that I have one on this. I've listened to a few of the services through the podcast that the university puts out. I admire the way the school has centered the students the whole time, and I just think that's our job as adults. And so, I'm not really interested in having a critique of this event that is so far outside my own experience that it would be meaningless for me to have that critique. And I also am not interested in praising it effusively because that adds pressure to kids too. I think just let it be is the posture.  

Sarah [00:34:00] Just let it be. Yeah.  

Beth [00:34:01] We're coming into our time with which we do have personal experience and personal practices, and so I wonder what you're thinking about as Lent begins, Sarah.  

Sarah [00:34:11] We're recording this episode on Shrove Tuesday when we have the pancakes and we kick off. Lent Shrove Tuesday is my favorite. Well, I usually give up Instagram every year and I usually just give up my personal Instagram and I feel obligated to keep up our professional Instagram. But I was thinking this year, Maggie does such an incredible job I don't even feel obligated to pay attention to our professional Instagram. So, I'm probably going to shut all my social media all the way down, and I think I might add Amazon to it. I know. I haven't fully decided yet, but usually when I'm hesitant, that's a good sign. It's a good practice for me to work on, to go 40 days without Amazon ordering. I feel like it would probably be good for my soul.  

Beth [00:34:56] Well, it came to me very clearly this year that if something distracts me and distances me from what's holy and sacred, it is definitely my phone. And I think that the best way for me to establish a practice that reminds me of why I'm departing something and what I'm supposed to be focused on, is to decide that my phone lives at my desk. It's not an appendage of my body. And so, if I'm walking around my house, my phone gets to sit on my desk. If I'm going to bed, my phone's going to charge on my desk at night. It can leave the house with me because I'm a parent and a daughter and a sister and a friend and need to be able to have it with me in our society as it exists today, but in my house, there's no reason for it to walk around everywhere with me. There is nothing coming through my phone that can't wait a few minutes until I stop by my desk. And I just think that'll probably have all kinds of effects that I haven't thought about, but I am tired of halfway paying attention to my phone and halfway paying attention to my family. And I'm hoping that giving it that house will assist me in my ongoing effort to reduce the influence of technology in my life.  

Sarah [00:36:06] I don't sleep with my phone. I do try to plug it in when my kids get home from school. Are you going to just do it for 40 days or are you going to try to keep it permanently?  

Beth [00:36:13] I would love to try to keep it permanently. We'll see. I really want to take these 40 days to notice what the impact is. I think that's going to be an important part of the practice for me. Well, thank you for joining us. Thank you for your patience with me. Thank you to Ryan and Dylan for suffering through this episode alongside me. Thank you, Sarah, for being so gracious with me today as I tried to make something happen here. I'm going to go to bed now. I am going to try to have the best day available to me.  

Sarah [00:36:39] Bless.  

Beth [00:36:39] I hope you all have the best week available to you. We'll be back in your ears on Friday. Between now and then, check our show notes so that we can see you as we are out and about, especially in Orlando.  

[00:37:30] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.  

Sarah [00:37:35] Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.  

Beth [00:37:41] Our show is listener-supported special thanks to our executive producers.  

Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Helen Handley. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Molly Kohrs. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. Emily Neesley. Tawni Peterson. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh.   

Beth Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Joshua Allen. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller. 

[Outtake]

Maggie PentonComment